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Some law schools will collapse soon.
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Date: August 18th, 2013 5:21 PM Author: cerebral degenerate legend I've never seen the kind of scramble in admissions offices at the moment. Waitlists are moving at an alarming rate in the last few weeks in an effort to shore up the medians/raw bodies of incoming classes. If a few schools don't collapse in the next six months, then perhaps none will. But the mad scramble at the moment is amazing. [You can assume that I've read your stock "gas yourself" and "what does it feel like to be a leech" here.] |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 5:22 PM Author: talking theatre international law enforcement agency This is welcome news, no? I mean, for the profession. The diploma mills have watered things down enough to the point where law is a joke and thousands of JDs will never have a chance at a normal life.
Also, gas yourself. |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 5:28 PM Author: cerebral degenerate legend My concern is that the "wrong" schools will go under: the low enrollment, smaller startup with a 10-year history in an "underserviced" area, rather than the large-scale for-profit (or de facto for-profit) bottom-feeding diploma mills that have 25+ years of institutional history and can weather the storm with capital infusion or personnel cuts. Maybe you think it's not bad if the former goes out of business, and that may be right, but I don't think it solves some of the bigger problems. |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 5:29 PM Author: Bearded insane stead goyim lol link to the "wrong" schools? there aren't any schools like that--they are all diploma mills that should never have existed anyway. any school that started in the last 10 years was trying to get it on the scam and deserves its fate. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2339571&forum_id=2#23865485) |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 5:31 PM Author: olive violent whorehouse coffee pot You need to do the following: 1) gas yourself to death. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2339571&forum_id=2#23865495) |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 10:51 PM Author: Exhilarant avocado quadroon titcr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2339571&forum_id=2#23867619) |
Date: August 18th, 2013 5:27 PM Author: Bearded insane stead goyim i would love to see what's going on at places like USF and Santa Clara right now. lsat medians have been dropping like a rock the last couple years. hopefully we have at least a couple more years of dropping apps so some of these schools actually close down (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2339571&forum_id=2#23865468) |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 5:27 PM Author: Razzmatazz Flickering Hairy Legs now's a great time to go (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2339571&forum_id=2#23865472) |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 5:29 PM Author: cerebral degenerate legend It's a trite thing to say, but you can get in, with scholarships, at institutions this year that wouldn't have waitlisted you two years ago. It's all a question of what your current employment options are, how much leverage you want, and what you think the legal market will look like in 2016. I'm not sure this will be the case at law schools next year. Some might give up; applicants may increase on the value proposition. |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 6:37 PM Author: glittery rigor round eye *scratches chin with interest* (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2339571&forum_id=2#23865887) |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 10:20 PM Author: Arrogant garnet preventive strike brethren lol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2339571&forum_id=2#23867312) |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 5:28 PM Author: unholy mood What does this mean for professors and aspiring academics? Will I have a better shot at an adjunct spot now, because they can't afford a full time prof? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2339571&forum_id=2#23865478) |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 5:30 PM Author: cerebral degenerate legend Maybe the opposite: if they're cutting, the first thing to go may be the adjunct slots, because it's quick cash and they can just offer students fewer options or let full-time faculty pick it up. For aspiring academics, it's a bloodbath. |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 5:31 PM Author: unholy mood Ah. I thought they'd be more open to hiring an adjunct at 5k a semester instead of hiring a tenured track full time prof to fill openings.
If I want to be an adjunct, should I just send my resume to all the schools in cities my firm would be willing to allow me to work from? Who do I send it to? Is there a posting for open adjunct spots? |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 5:35 PM Author: cerebral degenerate legend Well, if they're having a problem filling the classes, yes. Find the associate dean for academics. Propose a course in X or Y and explain why it fits in your area. Explain how impressed you are with grads from Z and how you'd like give back to that community. Half of adjunct positions are essentially quid pro quo to get the adjunct to hire students from the school, so anything suggesting that is beneficial. |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 5:36 PM Author: unholy mood Awesome. Any other tips?
My new goal is to fuck over every school that rejects me for an adjunct spot and make sure we don't hire their grads.
Do you come on here often? I'd really like to teach some courses and I'd like to pick your brain some. I have to head out now for a dinner, though. |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 5:40 PM Author: cerebral degenerate legend Another is that schools are obsessed with "practical" education these days and are looking for things that they can do on the cheap. Not only that, but anything that makes grads "practice-ready" or "marketable." To be honest, some of this is probably useful and true, but most of it is marketing garbage spewed by M.A.'s in education pontificating about generic "trends." But I would include these aspects in your description of a course. I'm here less and less because the conversation was mostly "gas yourself" (see supra). Happy to help, post here later and I'll try to return. |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 7:33 PM Author: Snowy Bull Headed Locale If you get an adjunct spot, do the schools usually give you unlimited westlaw acct (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2339571&forum_id=2#23866283) |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 9:40 PM Author: cerebral degenerate legend I have no idea, sorry. I doubt it. They barely get office space. They usually get an email address, though. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2339571&forum_id=2#23867030) |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 10:19 PM Author: impressive really tough guy church No and no.
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Date: August 18th, 2013 10:02 PM Author: unholy mood Thanks. I'll try to put together a pitch. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2339571&forum_id=2#23867157) |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 10:07 PM Author: impressive really tough guy church Send it in with a healthy donation. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2339571&forum_id=2#23867195) |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 10:09 PM Author: unholy mood Ya. Fuck. I wouldn't mind giving them the fucking money, but if I give them a donation and I get no job, I'd be pissed. That's not worth it to me.
What donation would you do? I'm thinking $10k tops. Above that and my wife would probably bitch because I give her shit any time she spends $500 and she makes more than me. |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 10:17 PM Author: impressive really tough guy church Depends on the school. $10k I would want a quid pro quo for the job but that is tacky. $2500-5,000 should get your foot in the door, but the school has to have a need for the class and it has to be one students will take and you have to have the prestige points to teach it.
Donate now to get your name on the list. Go to events/fundraisers and talk about "giving back" and "training future members of the bar" at some point you may get a shot.
Edit: for T14 level you have no shot short of being a senior partner, federal judge, or something on that level. |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 10:21 PM Author: unholy mood Ya. I'll put together a plan. I'm hoping I can put together a panel or some shit and talk about issues in the practice area I'd like to teach, and invite some biglaw luminaries in the practice as well as local shitlaw people that bring (illegitimate) cases in the practice area. That way I could point to the biglaw opportunities in the practice area for top students and shitlaw possibilities for the shit students.
Not T-14. A local TT that I did undergrad at. I was a T14 and did a fed district court and fed coa clerkship, now I'm in biglaw in the city. |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 10:22 PM Author: impressive really tough guy church If you want help with the process you can email me
Panel is a good idea. You can also try to guest lecture if you know existing adjuncts or full profs.
Those stats you posted should be fine. |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 10:24 PM Author: unholy mood Do you check that often? This is an evolving thing.
Are you in academia?
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Date: August 18th, 2013 10:25 PM Author: impressive really tough guy church (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2339571&forum_id=2#23867347) |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 10:26 PM Author: unholy mood Got it. I'll link this thread. It might be a few months or a year down the road. Thanks for the guest lecturing tip. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2339571&forum_id=2#23867353) |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 10:26 PM Author: impressive really tough guy church Good luck. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2339571&forum_id=2#23867358) |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 10:41 PM Author: unholy mood Will you post the email again really fast? I came to save that and see I missed it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2339571&forum_id=2#23867508) |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 10:44 PM Author: impressive really tough guy church (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2339571&forum_id=2#23867538) |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 10:47 PM Author: unholy mood ok you can delete (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2339571&forum_id=2#23867560) |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 6:50 PM Author: impressive really tough guy church To teach classes with adjuncts costs like 5-10% of tenured faculty and a lot of adjuncts are big donors to the school so on a net basis they are basically free if not a profit center.
First cuts will be non-tenured full time and non-tenured admin positions as well as cutting all non-salary expenses (research scholarship, paid conventions etc. which can amount to up to 30% of tenured faculty pay). Legal writing and clinic profs getting replaced with adjuncts seems the most likely, but I have not heard of that happening yet. The rest is already happening at a lot of schools (even t50).
Second will be early retirement packages for tenured faculty. Already happening.
Third is finding a way to cut the pay of tenured faculty and deans directly. Hard to tell if this is happening or not.
Then you go to straight up cutting people. No real evidence of this yet.
Schools are already slowing down hiring of new tenure track and pushing off granting tenure to assistant profs. They are scared. I could see 40 plus schools going under in the next decade.
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Date: August 18th, 2013 9:43 PM Author: cerebral degenerate legend If they need to expand courses, yes, it's easier to hire an adjunct to fill it rather than a tenure-track member. And yes, they make money on it. But they're also some of the first to go as expendable. A problem with early retirement packages is that many of these older folks like to feel relevant and wanted, so they prefer sticking around. It's a pretty plum gig: there's essentially zero post-tenure review, they've taught the same courses for 40 years and have essentially zero prep work, they usually get priority in scheduling and course selection because there is a rich seniority system and administrators rarely want to interfere with them, and they don't have to worry about research or writing so they get a month off in December and three months of carefree summer. Non-tenured admin are not getting cut. In fact, at most schools, they continue to proliferate. This is actually the scandal of all higher education: administrators have doubled in the last generation. |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 9:55 PM Author: impressive really tough guy church I know for a fact non-tenure admin are getting cut and at a number of schools. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2339571&forum_id=2#23867109) |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 5:32 PM Author: Titillating Green Heaven Mental Disorder you got your own and you'd better feel damn lucky, you fucking leech. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2339571&forum_id=2#23865499) |
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Date: August 20th, 2018 9:57 PM Author: Stimulating Bisexual Area Love Of Her Life I'll say. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2339571&forum_id=2#36651948) |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 5:31 PM Author: bespoke theater stage jew bro, no one cares about law schools on this bort (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2339571&forum_id=2#23865496) |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 5:32 PM Author: Razzmatazz Flickering Hairy Legs cr, everyone here is in their 30s (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2339571&forum_id=2#23865500) |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 5:31 PM Author: Blue party of the first part garrison if schools refuse to provide an education that is attractive to legal employers paying "real" legal wages in career-track jobs, then they deserve to go under. simple as that. it's up to them. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2339571&forum_id=2#23865498) |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 5:34 PM Author: Bearded insane stead goyim frankly i hope that students stay away based on shitty employment numbers and costs. we need some schools to go under or take huge hits so this issue can receive more press (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2339571&forum_id=2#23865510) |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 5:35 PM Author: galvanic immigrant I hope against hope that this is true. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2339571&forum_id=2#23865522) |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 5:38 PM Author: concupiscible chapel *becums doobs*
*reads this thread*
*starts uncontrollably salivating all over keyboard* |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 5:39 PM Author: Bearded insane stead goyim do you have gchat? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2339571&forum_id=2#23865547) |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 5:41 PM Author: cerebral degenerate legend http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=1590591&mc=6&forum_id=2 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2339571&forum_id=2#23865562) |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 5:43 PM Author: Bearded insane stead goyim hahah ty. sorry that doobs contacted you irl (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2339571&forum_id=2#23865571) |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 6:55 PM Author: adventurous bistre forum windowlicker here is the problem, we can't really celebrate this since what is truly needed is MORE under/unemployable young lawyers out there to show the crisis and all it's ugliness to the world. Basically, I still don't think there is a critical mass yet as people are STILL applying to law school.
It's basically a disease. I have access to thousands of college graduates due to my alumni involvement in my fraternal organization and I routinely get emails saying "hey, I'm thinking of going to law school..." and I have several emails, basically cut and pastes at this point, explaining why not to do it. They insist on going immaterial of how many forwarded links and germane newspaper clippings. At this point, once they say "I am thinking of taking the LSAT", it's a done deal. |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 7:12 PM Author: Flatulent Comical Institution It's because of the PRESTIGE associated with being a lawyer.
You get to say to people, "I'm a lawyer!" and that itself is boner-inducing for the person that says it.
Despite their 2.9 in PoliSci from BigStateU, they can feel superior to EVERYONE because they can ask "Did YOU go to law school?"
PRESTIGIOUS |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 7:06 PM Author: swashbuckling jap mexican lol no... no other business offers a $200k per person, 3 year 500% return. as long as students can access govt loans, this scam is going to run. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2339571&forum_id=2#23866066) |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 7:08 PM Author: amber box office Lol and I went to fordham at sticker with a 168 3 years ago. Fuckkkkkkk. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2339571&forum_id=2#23866084) |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 7:12 PM Author: iridescent generalized bond lol fordham. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2339571&forum_id=2#23866110) |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 7:09 PM Author: Opaque bat shit crazy station candlestick maker get the scholarship to the escape pods (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2339571&forum_id=2#23866092) |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 7:15 PM Author: iridescent generalized bond You do realize these schools will start taking straight-up mentally handicapped people before they go under, right? Sure, that may eventually cost them accreditation, but it at least kicks the ball down the road a few years. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2339571&forum_id=2#23866136) |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 7:16 PM Author: federal digit ratio ape The only good thing about this trend is that the LSAT test prep thieves will have to find real work. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2339571&forum_id=2#23866142) |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 7:24 PM Author: Jet-lagged dingle berry Where are you getting your info? Someone posted last week that last year 80% of law school applicants got into at least one law school. This number was nearly twice the percentage accepted less than a decade ago. There are some applicants who are so bottom of the barrel that no one could possibly accept them (convictions, failure to graduate on time). I think the ftt's have finally run out of shitheads to accept. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2339571&forum_id=2#23866215) |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 9:52 PM Author: beady-eyed voyeur point I mean, so they accept even bigger losers. So what? How does that lead to them closing? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2339571&forum_id=2#23867082) |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 9:52 PM Author: mischievous fanboi personal credit line ABA has minimum bar pass rates (except for black schools) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2339571&forum_id=2#23867088) |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 10:04 PM Author: Abusive canary keepsake machete therapy Losers can still pass the bar.
(see e.g. Cooley) |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 10:09 PM Author: mischievous fanboi personal credit line http://abovethelaw.com/2012/11/quote-of-the-day-sorry-dean-those-bar-results-are-for-real/ (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2339571&forum_id=2#23867214) |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 10:02 PM Author: Abusive canary keepsake machete therapy If anything, I think now is the EASIEST time to get into lawlschool b/c they are having to go DEEPER into the applicant pool to fill the spots.
t14s are always gonna t14, but the rest of the schools have to look a lot harder at their waitlist.
However, they are not going to run out of suckers who wish to COP DAT GOV'T-BACKED LOAN and go to school. No matter how shitty ranked the school is.
The scam will continue until the Gov't cuts off the spigot.
EDIT:
gas yourself. |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 10:21 PM Author: abnormal temple codepig it looks more and more like student loan debt will ultimately be absolved (10-15 years from now).
so going to LS has probably never been a shrewder move. |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 10:22 PM Author: Navy Hall Sneaky Criminal what leads you to believe this? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2339571&forum_id=2#23867325) |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 10:24 PM Author: abnormal temple codepig 20 million kids with six-figure debt and no job prospects (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2339571&forum_id=2#23867340) |
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Date: August 18th, 2013 10:25 PM Author: Navy Hall Sneaky Criminal very, very few people have six figure debt
of course in 20 years, who knows |
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Date: August 20th, 2018 10:00 PM Author: Histrionic primrose hell It would prob. help if lolschools taught their students how to practice law, but that would make too much sense. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2339571&forum_id=2#36651980) |