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Stock Tip: BUY JCP (JC Penny)

Valuation is ridiculously low brothers. Bookmark this thread...
Curious kitty abode
  12/26/13
lol it's going to be out of business in a month.
Wonderful chest-beating incel
  12/26/13
Lol brothers. More like $20 by years end (Currently at rough...
Curious kitty abode
  12/26/13
LMAO it was hit extremely hard this holiday season. JCP is O...
Wonderful chest-beating incel
  12/26/13
just do woolworths bro
Boyish Shrine Circlehead
  12/26/13
lol chase the markets brother, my strategy is to go where th...
Curious kitty abode
  12/26/13
I HOAP you're right brother.
Wonderful chest-beating incel
  12/26/13
Best Buy - #1 national bricks and mortar retailer in its cat...
godawful parlor toilet seat
  12/26/13
JCP is hurting so bad in part because it brought in that app...
dashing menage twinkling uncleanness
  12/26/13
i could be wrong, but I think they brought back the same CEO...
Ungodly Famous Landscape Painting Kitty Cat
  12/26/13
(man who owns Stafford work shirts)
Iridescent nubile national
  12/26/13
**can't find a good pair of levis jeans amongst the racks an...
Ungodly Famous Landscape Painting Kitty Cat
  12/26/13
wtf is wrong with stafford faggot
Magenta Free-loading Theater Stage Fanboi
  12/26/13
Lol.
Narrow-minded aggressive keepsake machete house
  12/27/13
brother, where can i buy it? not flame i seriously have neve...
effete exciting stage striped hyena
  12/26/13
Just go to the customer service desk at any jc penney retail...
bearded topaz becky
  12/26/13
ty brother. how much stock should i buy?
effete exciting stage striped hyena
  12/26/13
As many certificates as they have in stock
Vibrant Locus
  12/26/13
protip- bring coupons
impressive patrolman state
  12/26/13
titcst ive been on dat jcp tip for some time brother
Vivacious massive boiling water
  12/26/13
who the fuck goes to jc penney
Mischievous Stage Mother
  12/26/13
lol 57% of the float was shorted as of Dec 13th. The last ti...
Violent amber roommate
  12/27/13
went long yesterday at 8.53. share price has stabilized, the...
Violent amber roommate
  03/06/14
...
Violent amber roommate
  03/11/14
were they priced like they were going bankrupt or something?...
Excitant useless brakes mental disorder
  03/11/14
Decent bump today, but still trading around $9, just like yo...
Maize bat shit crazy personal credit line
  03/11/14
i'm not the OP. i went long on 3/6. has only had a modest bu...
Violent amber roommate
  03/17/14
still buy in?
Bateful community account
  03/17/14
yeah still in. JCP still has a decent market share and reven...
Violent amber roommate
  03/17/14
how much should i buy? have 10k to invest
Bateful community account
  03/17/14
Buy $15k on margin
motley marketing idea crackhouse
  03/17/14
bro i have 175k to invest, how much in index funds and how m...
Thriller violet principal's office factory reset button
  03/17/14
$225k in JCP (use margin)
motley marketing idea crackhouse
  03/17/14
no way
Thriller violet principal's office factory reset button
  03/17/14
i usually keep 80% of my portfolio in index funds and blue c...
Violent amber roommate
  03/17/14
describe where your 80% is invested
Thriller violet principal's office factory reset button
  03/17/14
Long term portfolio is mix of SPY DIA IWM and some b...
Violent amber roommate
  03/17/14
whats all this nonsense abt tax efficient investments?
Thriller violet principal's office factory reset button
  03/17/14
bro, i like where your head is at, what do you say we start ...
Thriller violet principal's office factory reset button
  03/17/14
could this be a citi/boa gravy train?
Bateful community account
  03/17/14
THEY CALL IT RIDIN' THE GRAVY TRRAAAAAIIIIIEAEAHYEAEYAYEAAAA...
lavender travel guidebook
  03/17/14
I shop at JCP all the time. Very underrated store.
cyan brethren range
  03/17/14
This. Bought tons of IZOD shirts and Chinos, get compliments...
Curious kitty abode
  03/17/14
those shirts are so boxy
Thriller violet principal's office factory reset button
  03/17/14
You can't be a twink, that's for sure.
cyan brethren range
  03/17/14
(fattie)
Thriller violet principal's office factory reset button
  03/17/14
I normally wear medium, large if its some Euro brand and sma...
Curious kitty abode
  03/17/14
I've been watching JCP for some time to see if it's the Best...
unholy startled degenerate
  03/17/14
bumpedy bump
Violent amber roommate
  03/27/14
Should I take a small long position here? 7.74 (-9.15%)
avocado point wrinkle
  04/11/14
how much are you thinking?
Thriller violet principal's office factory reset button
  04/11/14
Very small, just speculative. Maybe 300 shares
avocado point wrinkle
  04/11/14
I wouldn't. I'm the pumo who went long on 3/6 and I got out ...
Violent amber roommate
  04/11/14
8.69
avocado point wrinkle
  04/29/14
...
Bat-shit-crazy orchestra pit
  08/08/14
Up 16% from when I recommended a buy back in December. ...
Curious kitty abode
  08/20/14
Why'd you go pumo you're a 180 poaster.
Azure aromatic immigrant
  08/20/14
not exactly the $20 you were predicting. that's probably bel...
carnelian demanding bawdyhouse boistinker
  08/20/14
Stock price is $11.11 up from $8.96 at my recommendation!
Curious kitty abode
  09/17/14
. . . and it's gone. $8.19 today on terrible guidance. Wil...
godawful parlor toilet seat
  10/09/14
They are in deep shit. Off pricers are killing them
talking antidepressant drug
  10/28/14
7.34
Bat-shit-crazy orchestra pit
  10/28/14
Buddy of mine put $20,000 into JCP when it fell to $14 a yea...
talking antidepressant drug
  10/28/14
Lol
sienna hall
  10/05/15
fashion tip: buy clothes from JC Penney
green shaky juggernaut
  10/05/15
especially the graphic tees with the huge "JCP" pa...
rebellious round eye
  11/25/16
...
Curious kitty abode
  11/25/16


Poast new message in this thread



Reply Favorite

Date: December 26th, 2013 12:08 PM
Author: Curious kitty abode

Valuation is ridiculously low brothers. Bookmark this thread.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#24714906)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 26th, 2013 12:10 PM
Author: Wonderful chest-beating incel

lol it's going to be out of business in a month.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#24714910)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 26th, 2013 12:10 PM
Author: Curious kitty abode

Lol brothers. More like $20 by years end (Currently at roughly $9)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#24714914)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 26th, 2013 12:13 PM
Author: Wonderful chest-beating incel

LMAO it was hit extremely hard this holiday season. JCP is OUT.

http://kwgn.com/2013/11/29/struggling-j-c-penney-hopes-black-friday-will-provide-boost/

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#24714924)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 26th, 2013 12:17 PM
Author: Boyish Shrine Circlehead

just do woolworths bro

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#24714941)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 26th, 2013 12:25 PM
Author: Curious kitty abode

lol chase the markets brother, my strategy is to go where the market will be, not where others are predicting it will go. Bookmark this page brother. JCP will turnaround like Best Buy did.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#24714986)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 26th, 2013 12:26 PM
Author: Wonderful chest-beating incel

I HOAP you're right brother.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#24714993)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 26th, 2013 7:39 PM
Author: godawful parlor toilet seat

Best Buy - #1 national bricks and mortar retailer in its category, stores built in prime locations, many within the last 10-20 years.

JCP - probably not even in the top 5 in its category, with a lineup of ageing shitty stores in dying malls. getting absolutely wrecked on every metric by Wal-Mart, Target, Kohl's Dillard's, and Macy's. Arguably competitive with Sears, Bon-Ton and Burlington Coat Factory, but fading fast.

The fact that you think the two are comparable in any way shows that you have done no research and are being reflexively contrarian. Sometimes people think that a stock is a giant pile of shit because the stock is a giant pile of shit, not because you're smarter than the whole world.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#24717060)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 26th, 2013 7:57 PM
Author: dashing menage twinkling uncleanness

JCP is hurting so bad in part because it brought in that apple dude who didn't understand retailing things other than high-end luxury goods to hipsters

If JCP has good management now (no idea), then it is possible they could stay afloat

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#24717136)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 26th, 2013 8:00 PM
Author: Ungodly Famous Landscape Painting Kitty Cat

i could be wrong, but I think they brought back the same CEO that they had for decades before the Apple dood

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#24717144)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 26th, 2013 7:41 PM
Author: Iridescent nubile national

(man who owns Stafford work shirts)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#24717067)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 26th, 2013 7:47 PM
Author: Ungodly Famous Landscape Painting Kitty Cat

**can't find a good pair of levis jeans amongst the racks and racks of wrangler jeans**

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#24717107)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 26th, 2013 10:46 PM
Author: Magenta Free-loading Theater Stage Fanboi

wtf is wrong with stafford faggot

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#24718131)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 27th, 2013 2:30 PM
Author: Narrow-minded aggressive keepsake machete house

Lol.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#24721246)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 26th, 2013 7:49 PM
Author: effete exciting stage striped hyena

brother, where can i buy it? not flame i seriously have never bought stocks before

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#24717110)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 26th, 2013 7:50 PM
Author: bearded topaz becky

Just go to the customer service desk at any jc penney retail location.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#24717114)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 26th, 2013 7:55 PM
Author: effete exciting stage striped hyena

ty brother. how much stock should i buy?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#24717127)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 26th, 2013 10:31 PM
Author: Vibrant Locus

As many certificates as they have in stock

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#24718041)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 26th, 2013 11:33 PM
Author: impressive patrolman state

protip- bring coupons

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#24718417)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 26th, 2013 11:18 PM
Author: Vivacious massive boiling water

titcst

ive been on dat jcp tip for some time brother

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#24718332)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 26th, 2013 11:19 PM
Author: Mischievous Stage Mother

who the fuck goes to jc penney

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#24718339)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 27th, 2013 2:29 PM
Author: Violent amber roommate

lol 57% of the float was shorted as of Dec 13th. The last time I saw a large company with short interest that high was Enron

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=JCP+Key+Statistics



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#24721244)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 6th, 2014 12:22 PM
Author: Violent amber roommate

went long yesterday at 8.53. share price has stabilized, they showed good earnings in Q4, and they fired the Apple guy and brought back the old CEO who seems to have things back on track. they still have similar revenues to their biggest competitor, Kohls, which is valued 4.5x higher right now.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#25141019)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 11th, 2014 9:57 AM
Author: Violent amber roommate



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#25169272)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 11th, 2014 10:10 AM
Author: Excitant useless brakes mental disorder

were they priced like they were going bankrupt or something?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#25169305)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 11th, 2014 10:11 AM
Author: Maize bat shit crazy personal credit line

Decent bump today, but still trading around $9, just like you noted 4 months ago.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#25169310)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 17th, 2014 1:54 PM
Author: Violent amber roommate

i'm not the OP. i went long on 3/6. has only had a modest bump since then but all indications are that it's found the bottom.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#25206935)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 17th, 2014 1:55 PM
Author: Bateful community account

still buy in?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#25206943)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 17th, 2014 2:01 PM
Author: Violent amber roommate

yeah still in. JCP still has a decent market share and revenues comparable to its competitors like kohls with lower cost of revenue, yet kohls's market cap is 4.5x higher. JCP's liabilities are also less than competitors like kohls. JCP brought back its former CEO last year, which is significant, and its holiday sales were pretty good.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#25206974)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 17th, 2014 2:04 PM
Author: Bateful community account

how much should i buy? have 10k to invest

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#25207011)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 17th, 2014 2:07 PM
Author: motley marketing idea crackhouse

Buy $15k on margin

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#25207027)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 17th, 2014 2:06 PM
Author: Thriller violet principal's office factory reset button

bro i have 175k to invest, how much in index funds and how much in jcpenny? should i try an option K?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#25207021)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 17th, 2014 2:08 PM
Author: motley marketing idea crackhouse

$225k in JCP (use margin)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#25207032)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 17th, 2014 2:10 PM
Author: Thriller violet principal's office factory reset button

no way

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#25207050)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 17th, 2014 2:14 PM
Author: Violent amber roommate

i usually keep 80% of my portfolio in index funds and blue chips. i only risk 20% on shit like start-ups, growth stocks, and turnaroud stocks like JCP, BBRY, RAD. RAD is another turnaround stock that has paid off well for me over the past year. it still has much more room to climb. it too is trading at a fraction of its competitors (WAG and CVS), although RAD's issue is different than JCP since its saddled with massive long term debt. but its been able to pay the interest on its debt for the past few years and remain cash flow positive.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#25207064)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 17th, 2014 2:22 PM
Author: Thriller violet principal's office factory reset button

describe where your 80% is invested

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#25207116)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 17th, 2014 2:28 PM
Author: Violent amber roommate

Long term portfolio is mix of

SPY

DIA

IWM

and some blue chips like

F

3M

XOM

GOOG

this year i'm also holding

XLF

XLK

XLH

Was also in a couple of high-yield bond funds for a while until recently.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#25207146)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 17th, 2014 2:31 PM
Author: Thriller violet principal's office factory reset button

whats all this nonsense abt tax efficient investments?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#25207167)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 17th, 2014 2:39 PM
Author: Thriller violet principal's office factory reset button

bro, i like where your head is at, what do you say we start a thread where we can remain pumo but still touch base abt this shit once a month or so?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#25207194)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 17th, 2014 2:08 PM
Author: Bateful community account

could this be a citi/boa gravy train?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#25207037)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 17th, 2014 2:10 PM
Author: lavender travel guidebook

THEY CALL IT RIDIN' THE GRAVY TRRAAAAAIIIIIEAEAHYEAEYAYEAAAAAHHHHHHNNNNNNNNNNNN

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#25207048)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 17th, 2014 2:09 PM
Author: cyan brethren range

I shop at JCP all the time. Very underrated store.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#25207044)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 17th, 2014 2:18 PM
Author: Curious kitty abode

This. Bought tons of IZOD shirts and Chinos, get compliments all the time. Also wear them with my JCP loafers. OFS.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#25207088)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 17th, 2014 2:21 PM
Author: Thriller violet principal's office factory reset button

those shirts are so boxy

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#25207111)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 17th, 2014 2:24 PM
Author: cyan brethren range

You can't be a twink, that's for sure.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#25207128)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 17th, 2014 2:32 PM
Author: Thriller violet principal's office factory reset button

(fattie)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#25207170)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 17th, 2014 3:08 PM
Author: Curious kitty abode

I normally wear medium, large if its some Euro brand and small for JCP shirts and they fit very well.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#25207315)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 17th, 2014 10:10 PM
Author: unholy startled degenerate

I've been watching JCP for some time to see if it's the Best Buy of 2014. It might be if enough people buy into the "turn around" story (all it takes is for a few institutions and retail investors and then it can take off). There were serious questions about it's ability to continue as a going concern last year, but it seems stable for now.

Long-term, JCP is dead in the water. In-store traffic is declining, malls are declining, their online sales and traffic aren't growing, or aren't growing fast enough.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#25209776)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 27th, 2014 12:57 PM
Author: Violent amber roommate

bumpedy bump

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#25271217)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 11th, 2014 1:26 PM
Author: avocado point wrinkle

Should I take a small long position here? 7.74 (-9.15%)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#25366289)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 11th, 2014 1:33 PM
Author: Thriller violet principal's office factory reset button

how much are you thinking?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#25366327)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 11th, 2014 1:37 PM
Author: avocado point wrinkle

Very small, just speculative. Maybe 300 shares

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#25366340)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 11th, 2014 1:48 PM
Author: Violent amber roommate

I wouldn't. I'm the pumo who went long on 3/6 and I got out of this on Wednesday as I kept reading more and more that all the hedge fund guys who led me into this investment in the first place had gotten out after concluding that JCP's prospects for turnaround were bleak. I saw no more reason to stay in.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#25366397)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 29th, 2014 8:05 AM
Author: avocado point wrinkle

8.69

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#25469093)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 8th, 2014 3:27 PM
Author: Bat-shit-crazy orchestra pit



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#26088090)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 20th, 2014 11:56 AM
Author: Curious kitty abode

Up 16% from when I recommended a buy back in December.

Price December: 8.96

Today: 10.40

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#26168943)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 20th, 2014 12:02 PM
Author: Azure aromatic immigrant

Why'd you go pumo you're a 180 poaster.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#26168977)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 20th, 2014 12:02 PM
Author: carnelian demanding bawdyhouse boistinker

not exactly the $20 you were predicting. that's probably below the expected return required for most people to invest in a bankruptcy candidate.

also, it's still looking pretty bleak for the company...

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#26168983)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 17th, 2014 9:54 AM
Author: Curious kitty abode

Stock price is $11.11 up from $8.96 at my recommendation!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#26344408)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 9th, 2014 12:39 AM
Author: godawful parlor toilet seat

. . . and it's gone. $8.19 today on terrible guidance. Will be bankrupt in 2-3 years.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#26483891)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 28th, 2014 1:57 PM
Author: talking antidepressant drug

They are in deep shit. Off pricers are killing them

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#26602930)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 28th, 2014 10:06 AM
Author: Bat-shit-crazy orchestra pit

7.34

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#26602000)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 28th, 2014 1:56 PM
Author: talking antidepressant drug

Buddy of mine put $20,000 into JCP when it fell to $14 a year ago.

I hope he sold

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#26602920)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 5th, 2015 3:15 PM
Author: sienna hall

Lol

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#28904327)



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Date: October 5th, 2015 3:16 PM
Author: green shaky juggernaut

fashion tip: buy clothes from JC Penney

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#28904336)



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Date: November 25th, 2016 6:23 PM
Author: rebellious round eye

especially the graphic tees with the huge "JCP" painted over a profile silhouette of lincoln

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#31991404)



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Date: November 25th, 2016 6:13 PM
Author: Curious kitty abode



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2452386&forum_id=2#31991369)