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"Dynamic Student Loan Repayment Act" expands PAYE to 30 years
Poast new message in this thread
Date: July 23rd, 2014 12:37 PM Author: hyperactive gaming laptop http://abovethelaw.com/2014/07/bipartisan-plan-to-screw-poor-student-borrowers-is-actually-kind-of-good/
Senators Marco Rubio and Mark Warner introduced a bipartisan student loan bill yesterday aimed at reducing default rates. The bill, called the “Dynamic Student Loan Repayment Act,” would limit all student loan repayment to 10% of discretionary income.
The plan is terrible for the poorest students. Currently, the federal income-based repayment program, called Pay as You Earn or PAYE, also requires 10% of discretionary income, but it calculates “discretionary” at 150% of the poverty line. The Rubio/Warner plan kicks in at $10,000… which is a lot less than 150% of the poverty line.
Also under PAYE, if you have more than $57,500 of debt after 20 years of repayment, PAYE forgives your loan. Under Dynamic Repayment, that goal post is moved to 30 years out. I guess the upside is that under Dynamic Repayment, there’s a better chance that you’ll die still owing money.
Again, if you are poor, this new plan isn’t great. But since when do Republicans or even Democrats care about the truly poor? |
Date: July 23rd, 2014 12:40 PM Author: Anal big kitchen foreskin jfc. a fixed threshold of $10k is below 150% of poverty level now, imagine how horrible it will be after 20 years of inflation eats away at it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25987244) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 12:40 PM Author: pungent turdskin LJL (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25987245) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 12:42 PM Author: Lavender feces that's alright. i'm locked in to PAYE 20-10 already (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25987247) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 1:17 PM Author: hyperactive gaming laptop Looks to include all borrowers, no grandfather provision --
http://www.scribd.com/doc/234127671/Dynamic-Repayment-Act |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 1:18 PM Author: Lavender feces lol i'm not reading that but i'm sure it's flame anyway (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25987401) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 4:18 PM Author: Vibrant Smoky Station Right bro... Too bad dept of edu has already confirmed that those currently enrolled in PAYE are under some form of contract which the government can't unilaterally change.
Nice flame tho. |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 4:33 PM Author: adulterous church immigrant lol@this. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25988564) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 4:54 PM Author: hyperactive gaming laptop After Congress caps all PAYE forgiveness at $57.5K,
"But, but, the Dept of Edu webpage FAQ written by some intern," he lisped.
Page Not Found |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 4:56 PM Author: Vibrant Smoky Station wasn't dept of edu FAQ bro. There's some website dedicated to student loan shit and the guy who runs the website interview several people with the dept of edu regarding this issue when obama first published his proposed student loan reform. They confirmed that those already enrolled in PAYE are locked in. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25988730) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 4:58 PM Author: hyperactive gaming laptop I love all these vague hearsay assertions from people with no relevant authority. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25988740) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 4:59 PM Author: elite bat shit crazy skinny woman locale They can't confirm anything. Most of the Department can't even explain the various repayment programs and who they apply to. And no one has linked to any language in the loan documents that treats these repayment plans as contractual obligations. Anything can change. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25988744) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 5:05 PM Author: cocky sooty field coffee pot IBR, at least, is contained in the PLUS MPN
http://www.direct.ed.gov/pubs/plusmpn.pdf
Unless otherwise restricted by loan type, you must repay all of your Direct Loans under the same repayment plan. You may choose one of the following repayment plans to repay your Direct PLUS Loan:
[List of repayment plans]
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 5:25 PM Author: Titillating maniacal pistol titcr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25988857) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 5:31 PM Author: hyperactive gaming laptop (Pace law at sticker grad) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25988888) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 5:02 PM Author: adulterous church immigrant haha im going to personally enjoy watching you get so fucking pwned (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25988754) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 5:05 PM Author: Vibrant Smoky Station stern but fair (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25988766) |
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Date: July 24th, 2014 10:39 AM Author: hyperactive gaming laptop (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25992968) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 12:49 PM Author: arousing clear set electric furnace When does this bullshit kick in, assuming it passes? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25987273) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 12:54 PM Author: Aggressive Marvelous Internal Respiration Abode July 1, 2015
It won't pass. |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 1:14 PM Author: hyperactive gaming laptop Bipartisan support from all sides. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25987378) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 1:19 PM Author: supple background story cuckold 3L here. Can I still get the 20 year one? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25987405) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 4:20 PM Author: Vibrant Smoky Station haven't read this particular one, but the one in the bama proposal applied to new borrowers, so those who haven't taken out any loans yet. Basically just fucks everyone under the age of 25 even harder. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25988469) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 1:01 PM Author: cocky sooty field coffee pot better cop dat PAYE contract now (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25987321) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 1:11 PM Author: Confused halford sanctuary This is so awesome! Screw all the debtor bums. Pay your loans deadbeats. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25987360) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 1:18 PM Author: Fluffy Transparent Property Really Tough Guy (Boomer who paid for college working part-time at mcdonalds) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25987396) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 1:37 PM Author: Confused halford sanctuary There are still tons of cheap in-state options if you're not a narcissistic prestige whore. In-state tuition in most states is under 10k a year for undergrad. Why should taxpayers pay for your $50k/yr LAC degree and $50k/yr JD?
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 2:09 PM Author: Titillating maniacal pistol no one lives in those states. more people live in L.A. County alone than in all of the blue states in this map:
http://i.imgur.com/zkt2BLq.jpg
in-state tuition in California is something like $20K per year. |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 2:23 PM Author: Confused halford sanctuary LA county has 10 million people, which is the same as Michigan, just one of the states on your map. NJ has 9 million, WI has 5 million, MD has 5 million, VA has 8 million. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25987802) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 2:25 PM Author: Titillating maniacal pistol kids can't choose what state their parents live. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25987809) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 2:27 PM Author: Confused halford sanctuary Move to a new state at 18 for one year. Get a job. Cop in-state tuition the next year. Done. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25987818) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 4:52 PM Author: Hot dysfunction party of the first part states with good college systems have bumped this up to like 4 years before you can cop instate. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25988717) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 1:19 PM Author: Adventurous reading party sandwich Odd act. Very dynamic. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25987408) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 1:28 PM Author: arousing clear set electric furnace So what happens to the fuckers who are already signed up for PAYE? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25987468) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 1:34 PM Author: cocky sooty field coffee pot nothing (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25987508) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 1:36 PM Author: hyperactive gaming laptop This applies retroactive from July 1, 2015 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25987528) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 4:23 PM Author: Vibrant Smoky Station the flame is strong with you (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25988493) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 4:22 PM Author: Vibrant Smoky Station Nothing breh, you're in contract with lender (government) which locks in the terms of PAYE. This has already been covered repeatedly when Bama set forth his new paye proposal which was just a slightly better version of this and all us current PAYE bros were STRESSING that it might apply retroactively.
Dept of Edu confirmed that those enrolled in PAYE are actually some form of contract which cannot be retroactively changed by gov't or any other party and we're locked into our current terms.
PSLF on the other hand... LJL |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 4:43 PM Author: hyperactive gaming laptop Lol at being locked in to having the tax payers eat hundreds of thousands of dollars of your debt. GL with that. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25988649) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 1:58 PM Author: geriatric box office Odds of this passing? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25987676) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 1:59 PM Author: pungent turdskin 0% (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25987684) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 2:03 PM Author: geriatric box office Based on?
Obamas expansion of PAYE seems more generous to borrowers. |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 2:05 PM Author: pungent turdskin correct (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25987718) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 2:07 PM Author: geriatric box office Why do you think it won't pass though? Because Rubio is a co-sponsor? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25987728) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 4:33 PM Author: Odious avocado athletic conference shitlib Because there's something that already does the same thing except is more favorable to students (and schools)? So why would Dems support this? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25988565) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 2:07 PM Author: Charismatic Gas Station Regret He already signed the exec order. This would have to go through Congress and be signed into law, and "bipartisan" or not, it may very well fail or be torpedoed for whatever reason. Obama would basically give a big fuck-you to all of the borrowers who jumped into IBR on the premise that PAYE as it stood was going to be expanded, if he signed it.
Could pass, this issue has always been so off the radar I am not sure they'd all of a sudden decide they need to save a few bucks by making it 30 years to the chagrin of all the people the bill is designed to "help". |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 2:08 PM Author: wine trip degenerate blood rage What exec order? I'm an IBR bro just trying to get some hope of PAYE. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25987736) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 2:11 PM Author: geriatric box office Bro get educated:
Everyone will be entitled to PAYE in 2015. |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 2:12 PM Author: wine trip degenerate blood rage Sweet tyft (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25987757) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 2:09 PM Author: geriatric box office I'm currently (barely) on IBR waiting for PAYE expansion to come into effect. I want the PSLF from it
I want that PAYE (Obama's version). |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 2:11 PM Author: pungent turdskin barely how?
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 2:14 PM Author: geriatric box office my payments under IBR (15% version) are pretty close to my regular payment amount.
PAYE would bring payments down a third (10% version).
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 2:08 PM Author: hyperactive gaming laptop 80%. This is a more realistic version of PAYE. You cannot have people making under $50K paying almost nothing on their loans forever. And you can't have people getting $100K+ in forgiveness. This bill just ensures that nobody will be getting TOO GOOD of a deal with PAYE. Includes retroactive also. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25987737) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 2:12 PM Author: geriatric box office yeah, if it does passes i'll have to get on it, buckle down and pay my loans off asap.
no pslf provision in there so i'd be kinda fucked that way. I have 3 1/2 years left to get forgiveness |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 2:13 PM Author: hyperactive gaming laptop One way or another, all forgiveness will be capped at $57.5K. Nobody is ever getting more than that amount forgiven. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25987762) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 2:15 PM Author: geriatric box office that's all I need really. I just don't want to wait 30 years to be able to get it when I could get it in 3 1/2. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25987767) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 2:17 PM Author: Lavender feces lol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25987777) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 2:18 PM Author: Titillating maniacal pistol what do you tell people like me that owe $250K or more? you can't deny bankruptcy and also provide no other out. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25987782) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 2:25 PM Author: geriatric box office do you have biglaw?
I guess my question is how you could rack up so much debt for law school? |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 2:27 PM Author: Titillating maniacal pistol $20K of that is undergrad, and about $20K is interest. law school was about $210K total. $20K living expenses + $40K tuition + interest accumulated during school. law school costs even more than that now, nearly $300K by most school's own estimates. no biglaw. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25987821) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 5:41 PM Author: racy citrine rigor HAHAURFUKD (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25988930) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 2:25 PM Author: cocky sooty field coffee pot he's flaming (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25987810) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 2:37 PM Author: hyperactive gaming laptop They'll just keep extending it out. You'll be fine, just don't expect to get $300K written off. PAYE was never designed for that, and it won't ever happen. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25987861) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 2:39 PM Author: adulterous church immigrant i think this is a likely prediction. they wont remove the forgiveness, theyll just keep lengthening the amount of time it takes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25987875) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 2:52 PM Author: green prole PAYE was designed exactly for that, and many people signed up for high-interest government loans, rather than lower-interest private loans specifically because of the protection PAYE offers. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25987935) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 2:58 PM Author: hyperactive gaming laptop The typical PAYE target is an underpaid public interest type with $40K debt and $45K in loans. Not some ridiculous $300K debt nonsense. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25987970) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 3:18 PM Author: green prole There is no such thing as a "PAYE target". Plenty of lawyers, grad students, etc., took out federal loans specifically because this repayment option existed. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25988077) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 4:26 PM Author: Vibrant Smoky Station Oh HAI Me.
This guy is flaming anyway, they can't change the terms of those of us already enrolled in PAYE since contract law governs. |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 4:34 PM Author: adulterous church immigrant show a contract with names/identifying info redacted that has PAYE. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25988575) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 4:43 PM Author: Vibrant Smoky Station no way I'm going through that much work, but if you look up the previous PAYE threads you should find the one discussing Obama's budget proposal where this shit was discussed at length. Dept of Edu has also confirmed that they could not change the terms of those currently enrolled in PAYE. I know there's a website that was asking these questions to dept of edu and publishing their responses but I'm also not gonna do that work for you bro.
I believe PAYE was actually explicitly mentioned as a repayment option in some of our loan paperwork in 2012/2013, therefore we relied on the promise of that repayment plan when we took out the loan. Therefore contract law governs.
However, I'm pretty sure that it was also confirmed that simply signing up for PAYE actually constitutes some form of contract with the lender that you'll abide by the terms of the repayment plan or some shit. |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 4:50 PM Author: hyperactive gaming laptop (citing random FAQ as evidence that taxpayers are locked in to eating hundreds of thousands of dollars of his debt) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25988700) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 4:52 PM Author: Vibrant Smoky Station is that a response to the extensive discussion on auto admit or the website that's purely focused on student loans and got information direct from the dept of edu on several occasions confirming that those currently enrolled in PAYE cannot have their terms changed unless they choose to opt into the new PAYE proposed by the Obama administration or any subsequent repayment plans. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25988714) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 4:55 PM Author: hyperactive gaming laptop Congress is the one proposing the bills, man. Not the dept of edu and whatever $12 an hour phone operator they have reassuring you. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25988727) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 4:57 PM Author: Vibrant Smoky Station I understand that, however basic contract principles still apply. If I enter into contract with the federal gov't, the gov't can't just unilaterally change the terms of that contract after I've relied on it, to terms that dramatically favor them. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25988735) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 5:03 PM Author: elite bat shit crazy skinny woman locale Were these repayment plans contractual obligations? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25988758) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 5:31 PM Author: Titillating maniacal pistol they were specific terms of repayment in the MPN itself for loans originated at that time (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25988890) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 5:57 PM Author: racy citrine rigor So they can't cut pensions, SSI, or Medicaid either??? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25989000) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 6:03 PM Author: hyperactive gaming laptop tucker act, bro. Government's hands are tied as fuck. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25989026) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 6:15 PM Author: cocky sooty field coffee pot SSI and medicaid aren't contracts
I'm not sure the fed gov has ever tried to cut a vested pension |
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Date: July 24th, 2014 11:27 AM Author: flushed coiffed milk people who are hurt (guy who is unfamiliar with US history regarding respecting contracts with another group obsessed with wampum) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25993169) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 3:01 PM Author: gold harsh legal warrant voyeur Thank god some people in congress have read my hundreds of letters. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25987991) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 3:32 PM Author: Lavender feces *earl not satisfied with only 30 years of repayment* "Hm, for now on I'll write 2 letters a week instead of 1." |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 3:53 PM Author: pungent turdskin why would Obama sign off on this when he just signed that exec order? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25988266) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 4:04 PM Author: hyperactive gaming laptop Obama wants to cap forgiveness at $57.5K also. Everybody is on the same page here. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25988364) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 4:15 PM Author: pungent turdskin love your passion bro (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25988437) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 4:55 PM Author: elite bat shit crazy skinny woman locale There's a reason the exec order doesn't kick in until the end of 2015. It's merely a bargaining position. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25988722) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 3:29 PM Author: Stimulating primrose center Does the bill apply retroactively (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25988151) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 3:54 PM Author: cocky sooty field coffee pot no (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25988269) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 4:03 PM Author: hyperactive gaming laptop Yeah, it overwrites previous rules, no grandfathering. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25988360) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 4:27 PM Author: Vibrant Smoky Station no (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25988520) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 4:55 PM Author: Confused halford sanctuary OFS - why would it allow just the last couple of years of lazy deadbeat graduates screw Uncle Sam out of his green? Art. I, Sec. 10, Clause 1 contract clause doesn't bind the Feds. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25988724) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 4:57 PM Author: hyperactive gaming laptop Basic Fairness won't allow some dude graduating from Boalt to get $340K forgiven while another dude graduating a year later is capped at $57.5K. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25988732) |
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Date: July 24th, 2014 11:21 AM Author: Anal big kitchen foreskin like how a bro who started college in october, 2007 can get PAYE. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25993143) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 5:00 PM Author: cocky sooty field coffee pot tucker act waives fed immunity on contract claims (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25988747) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 5:03 PM Author: hyperactive gaming laptop (guy citing 19th century act as evidence that he must get his $325K debt from Touro discharged) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25988759) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 5:06 PM Author: elite bat shit crazy skinny woman locale (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25988776) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 5:14 PM Author: wine trip degenerate blood rage (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25988806) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2014 6:28 PM Author: Bronze Area (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626049&forum_id=2#25989149) |