How is the Ivy experience different if you enter as a poor?
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Date: July 24th, 2014 11:26 AM Author: filthy dopamine hominid
While we are not talking about truly poor people here, yes, the people that I discussed above fit in seamlessly. The atmosphere seemed much less stratified than that of the flagship state school in my home state, which many of my friends attended. I think the difference was that the brand name of the school was so powerful that it served as an equalizer. One kid might be rich and another relatively poor, but they were united by their Ivy League status.
There was also a conscious effort by the administration to blend the students socially. For example, all roommates freshman year were assigned by the school. Again, radically different from my friends' state school, where people would room with their friends from high school, and where there was a high-end, privately run dorm that the richer students usually chose.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626850&forum_id=2#25993165) |
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Date: July 24th, 2014 11:51 AM Author: filthy dopamine hominid
The school served as an equalizer in that it caused the students to think of themselves as having something very significant in common with each other, which superseded many pre-existing distinctions. So, for example, Student A, on financial aid and from a middle class background, walks into the dining hall (at my school, virtually everyone lived on campus all four years, another democratizing factor). Student A sees his buddies Students B and C, both from affluent backgrounds. He knows Student B from a class that they took together, where they got to know each other through their shared interest in the material. He knows Student C from the student publication for which they both write. Student A sits down with Students B and C and have a normal social interaction that is not colored by class issues. They are joined by Student D, another affluent kid, who is Student A's roommate and got to know him from playing intramurals together. Sorry to simplify this so much, but it really was like that.
To answer your second question in a word, no. I saw maybe one or two examples of snobbery based on prep school affiliation in four years. The kids who had gone to the famous boarding schools, some of them financial aid kids there and in undergrad, were very open about their experiences and not cliquish. People behave snobbishly when they are insecure, and magnanimously when they feel the world lies at their feet.
I remember on one outing realizing that I was sitting with the son of a doctor, the daughter of a famous actor, and a kid who had grown up doing manual labor. Everyone was just treating each other like normal people, and I remember thinking how cool that was.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626850&forum_id=2#25993285) |
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Date: July 24th, 2014 2:20 PM Author: Citrine wild generalized bond
"a 6'4 WASP on HYP's crew/lax/squash/tennis team"
this is at best 1% of the male population at any ivy (even less at HYP), and these guys are just as likely to be very chill and nice as entitled cocksuckers.
it is an insecure ethnic striver fantasy to think that all well off and athletic white guys are cliquish bastards. i'm sure it seems that way looking in from the social margins, but you would be surprised.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626850&forum_id=2#25994093) |
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Date: July 24th, 2014 2:34 PM Author: Citrine wild generalized bond
what the fuck do you mean exactly? befriend these guys? have common interests, be a person they want to hang out with because you're fun to be around, etc. same way you would befriend anyone.
frankly this is a pretty weird question. your comments and questions have a very doobersein-like tone.
the point was that this small sub-population of tall athletic white guys aren't necessarily all asshole children of plutocrats who see everyone else as a lesser. they also don't form a completely uniform and monolithic social unit. how you approach befriending them is really up to you and the individuals concerned.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626850&forum_id=2#25994134) |
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Date: July 24th, 2014 11:45 AM Author: comical degenerate
CR.
i grew up in socal in a very modest middle-class family and was offered a full-scholarship at USC, so I visited during admit weekend. from my visit and talking to numerous people, it was obvious to me that non-rich kids have a fundamentally different experience from the rich ones. for instance, the rich kids often live off-campus in fancy apartments, drive nice cars, and party literally all over the world during breaks. cabo, miami, ibiza, yacht week in greece and croatia, you name it, they all did it. and socially those kids hung out with each other, were in the same frats/sororities, etc., so i knew that there was no way i would fit in and would feel alienated during my time there.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626850&forum_id=2#25993255) |
Date: July 24th, 2014 11:43 AM Author: aphrodisiac very tactful garrison giraffe
Poors generally hung out with other poors and do federal work-study jobs. They also go out less, except to house/frat parties with free drinks.
Many are pre-med (whether they get in/can afford tuition is another story), and the others are usually shithumanities because unless they went to some elite charter/pub school, they get styled on in most STEM classes.
The pipeline to elite finance/consulting jobs takes much fewer of these kids, both because of lower average GPA, and because they have fewer rich friends going through the OCI process. So the few of them that do know how important getting an internship junior summer is don't realize that you need to have been prepping with Vault guides/resume stuffer internships (often unpaid)/"leadership seminars" your entire college career.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626850&forum_id=2#25993240) |
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Date: July 24th, 2014 11:54 AM Author: aphrodisiac very tactful garrison giraffe
Lol, not Brown. I've been to house parties at most of the Ivies because of a club I was in, and Cornell, Columbia, and Dartmouth, all had open house/frat parties. Dartmouth frats will literally not turn you away unless you have done something that endangers the frat.
OK, here are some others:
-Poor blacks/hispanics/Asians (less so than previous two) hate their rich counterparts, and vice versa.
-Class lines are solidified in the first 2 or so months. People will subtly ask things like where you're from, or what your parents do, as barometers of how rich you are. And good luck dating a rich as a poor.
-Poor kids are less likely to get into Greek life unless they walk onto a sport (guys) or are bombshell attractive (girls).
-Poor kids are less likely to be able to cheat in classes with test banks/study guides because of the lack of aforementioned networks.
-Poor kids tend to live in shittier housing, since financial aid often doesn't provide extra money for more expensive digs.
-Poor kids are poorly represented in media and student gov organizations, except for the token "Is Financial Aid doing enough to help ARE students?" article that gets printed once a year.
Good enough?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626850&forum_id=2#25993303)
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Date: July 24th, 2014 1:03 PM Author: aphrodisiac very tactful garrison giraffe
"to get ahead (cop Goldman McKinsey YLS Wachtell Microsoft) you have to do X, and sorry that your Andover friend knew this at age 16 but you only learned after you graduated into NOBREAKFAST ITE"
Agreed.
"on the one hand you're not gonna just lie about and say your dad is a managing director when he's actually enjoying EBT. On the other, is it really "oh your dad's a plumber. well it was nice talking to you?" The poor kids literally can't do anything to hang out with rich brehs regularly?"
In many cases, no, but sometimes it's more like, "Hey, my friends and I are going clubbing to x bar, or going to spring break in x South American country. Can't come? Too bad."
Like I said, you can join a club sport or some club that has a lot of riches (club sailing is a thing), but you're inevitably going to feel left out when you have conflicts with your job or can't afford some of the other things your friends just shell out for.
"If you're a poor breh and you see a hot chick walking around in the Princeton Quad or Harvard Yard, you can usually tell her class by what she's wearing or just the kind of chick she seems."
Yeah, that, and major/sorority.
"To date a chick like that, does the bro need to be in overlapping social circles, such that the prole who isn't in them has no chance in hell?"
If she's in a sport or sorority, you'd need to be in a frat or sport, unless you're really attractive or have something else going for you. If she's just rich but doesn't seem to hang out that much with other rich kids, it's much more possible, but enjoy shelling out for dates.
"What can poor bros do besides graduate virgins?"
Hook up with drunk chicks at frat parties, Tinder, date other poors. Class matters more for LTRs and less for one night hookups.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626850&forum_id=2#25993652)
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Date: July 24th, 2014 2:00 PM Author: aphrodisiac very tactful garrison giraffe
"What are some examples of "X"? You mentioned earlier ITT how you have to do leadership seminars and unpaid internships with John Smith Capital LLC in SLC, UT etc but what are some other things UMC bros do/know but proles don't until it's too late? Doesn't have to be "my son, you have to do X your sophomore summer, Y the next summer etc." I mean more things like traits, manners wherein to conduct oneself, etc."
Yeah, networking with your parents' friends and high school friends (if you went to a prep school) usually helps too.
UMC bros are more industrious, and often see themselves as being the leader/ceo of a company or owning their own private practice as the end goal, instead of doing well being a cog in the machine, like many poor (but intelligent) ivy students. For them, the more pressing matter is paying off loans and supporting their family, not making partner or getting recs for business school.
Here is a good example: if you look at the people who found startups and "small businesses" (you invariably have the ones that try to streamline doing laundry, renting books, finding parking, etc.), they're usually the ones who have Daddy's money to get it off the ground.
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Yeah, when I said frats I included eating and final clubs too. Anything with some preftige that functioned as an exclusive social club.
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IDK about Princeton that much, sorry. But at most other Ivies - maybe not H - even the most elite spaces that throw open parties (so excluding the secret societies) wouldn't turn down a group of poors at the door with a decent guy/girl ratio.
Oh, and speaking of secret societies, a lot of them try to take pseudo-AA admits from the lower classes and non WASP backgrounds now. Lots of rich international students too, so actually diverse.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626850&forum_id=2#25993971) |
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Date: July 24th, 2014 2:55 PM Author: swollen pervert school cafeteria
no, i'm talking about "crossover" along class lines of andover/dalton folks and regular middle class/prole pairings.
there wen't many jews at dartmouth and they generally were involved in hillel and married each other. coming from nyc magnet school, it was one of the first shocking things i saw was how few jews there were.
in general, there just weren't any set patterns for how people from certain backgrounds behaved and you couldn't identify poors from rich people. everybody dressed the same (patagonia fleeces, juicy couture butt pants) and the dorms were all mixed and the (mainstream) frats/sororities wanted a mix of all sorts of people. the only signaling mechanism for popularity was attractiveness. i remember one girl in my class who was a native american mix that everybody wanted a piece of and she was from some prole background in north dakota.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626850&forum_id=2#25994212) |
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Date: July 24th, 2014 1:42 PM Author: filthy dopamine hominid
You seem pretty determined to convince yourself that the Ivies are a super-snobbish environment dominated by disdainful elitists. As I've said, the school tries to blend people socially through living arrangements. The school also funds lots of extra-curricular activities so that students don't have to pay to participate. For example, there was no cost to join the crew team, and there was a program for training inexperienced guys in how to row. Tons of guys, from rich and non-rich backgrounds alike, walked onto the team that way, as crew is obviously not a common high school sport. The University of Michigan crew, on the other hand, charged students something like $1000 to join, because they didn't have the funding to operate otherwise. Anyway, believe what you want about the Ivy League, but what I think few will contest is that the Ivies are dramatically less stratified than flagship state schools and less prestigious private schools.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626850&forum_id=2#25993860) |
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Date: July 24th, 2014 1:49 PM Author: comical degenerate
yeah the pumo above you obviously has an agenda of sorts. not quite sure what to make of it.
contrary to popular opinion, HYP is less snobby and more inclusive than a lot of the lower ranked private schools and even state schools. what i liked about it was that i wasn't judged negatively because of my modest background, ethnicity, or the fact that i was not an athlete. at other schools, stuff like that can play a major role in your social life and how people treat you. if there was judgment, at HYP people are judged on how smart, accomplished, and interesting you were. i recall my senior year a guy in my econ class won the rhodes scholarship. the news broke on a weekend, and when he came into class the next week, the entire class broke into a thunderous standing ovation and hollering as if he were a football QB who just led the team to a national championship. it was surreal and interesting how different it is from most schools.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626850&forum_id=2#25993912) |
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Date: July 27th, 2014 9:27 PM Author: bearded bipolar gas station prole
since 70% of the class gets financial aid, that makes no sense
and pls stop adding stanford to UG discussions
HYS makes sense for law school but be fucking real - no one is ranking S on the UG level with HYP
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626850&forum_id=2#26011946) |
Date: July 24th, 2014 2:34 PM Author: Sepia karate parlour
not much different. Your class has little to do with your experience per se, it's about your ability to connect with people. And some poor kids suck at finding that "college middle" in terms of social interaction. My bf and I were poor guys of color who figured it out and many years later are still the few of "the poor kids" who rave about our college experience.
above there is some mention of basically not knowing the established path to career success, this is accurate.
ymmv, I graduated A LONG time ago relative to most poasters.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626850&forum_id=2#25994132) |
Date: July 24th, 2014 2:41 PM Author: flirting lascivious sandwich
Because university is at heart an academic experience, the enjoyment of one's time really depends on one's discipline.
I come from a LMC-WC background, and was a humaniifag. My only friends were students from similar socio-economic backgrounds and international students (who represented many disciplines). Everyone else seemed rather friendly, though likely superficially so. I think if I had studied Economics while completing the pre-med curriculum, I would have befriended many chill fratty bros and sporty hoes.
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With respect to not knowing how to play the employment game, Career Services and the internet have equalized class-based information disparities... Granted, I failed to take advantage of the former resource and found myself spilling spaghetti out of my pockets during all of my consulting interviews.
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At the most elite private universities, plenty of academic and social resources are at your disposal; there's funding and awards waiting to be picked up everywhere, but one may not know that they exist at all.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626850&forum_id=2#25994156) |
Date: July 24th, 2014 2:50 PM Author: slippery lettuce den
I'm poor and went to an ivy and I fit in fine. I had friends from a lot of different backgrounds.
This thread I'd funny though because about a month ago all these people were telling me I must have been an outcast in college because I was poor and black.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626850&forum_id=2#25994188) |
Date: July 24th, 2014 6:10 PM Author: motley really tough guy
Most of the information on this thread is credited. I had friends of all social classes at my HYPS. Indeed, my Facebook friends list includes two children of one of the wealthiest 50 men in the world (according to Forbes) as well as a black girl who used to ride the train back to rural Mississippi during Christmas because her family couldn't afford a plane ticket. Sure, cliques do exist, but I never felt like there was a clique of rich WASPs who didn't invite others to their parties.
However, the one caveat was that if you weren't wealthy and you tried to date a UMC/legacy girl, you were done. You had no chance whatsoever. I'm a 6'2" white bro in good shape and I am usually told that I'm good looking. I have no problem getting dates with attractive undergraduates at the local university in my current town even in my mid-30's. And while I grew up in ARE country, my family is definitely UMC by ARE country standards. My two parents combined definitely cleared at least $500k per year. But when girls found out that I grew up in ARE country, went to a public high school, and that my dad was a dentist, it was over. I even had trouble getting dates with LMC/poor girls since I was competing with prep school bros who drove fancy cars and flew to Asia during breaks.
So I wouldn't worry about social exclusion at an Ivy if you're not rich. However, if you want a relationship (or just easy pussy) I would suggest that you go to H and try to date Wellesley/BC/BU girls. Otherwise you're going to need some massive game if you want to compete with the richer bros on campus.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2626850&forum_id=2#25995197) |
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