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Leaving biglaw too soon?
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Date: July 26th, 2014 8:42 AM Author: twisted impressive resort About 2.5 years in. Still have 100k in debt, and wife and I have squirreled away only 75k or so. I have learned a lot and appreciate the paycheck, but have realized that the only times I am happy are when work is slow. Gained 30 pounds. Don't feel like I am very good at this shit either or that people think I am a great associate.
Just got formal offer from BigFed. ~117k. Not a prestigious agency, and I have some reservations about office environment/professional development. Kiss hopes of buying home in expensive city goodbye. BUT I AM SO FUCKING TEMPTED to set myself FREE from this stress. I also have a new little dood at home.
Gotta decide soon.
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Date: July 26th, 2014 8:45 AM Author: Swashbuckling giraffe Is the BigFed offer in a location with cheap COL? Are you a litigator? I would only take it if the answer to both those questions is yes. A good in-house job is a much better exit if you're transactional. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2628397&forum_id=2#26004356) |
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Date: July 26th, 2014 8:53 AM Author: twisted impressive resort Ok. Answer to #1 is no. Answer to #2 is yes. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2628397&forum_id=2#26004369) |
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Date: July 26th, 2014 8:55 AM Author: twisted impressive resort I might add that the position is a non-litigating one, which is why I have professional development concerns. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2628397&forum_id=2#26004372) |
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Date: July 26th, 2014 9:37 AM Author: Excitant Violet Philosopher-king I know you don't want to out yourself, but providing a bit more detail about the position and location would help. What are the professional development concerns? Is it a dead end position with no out to the private sector (either in a related business or law practice related to the government area)?
Also, realistically, if you're a litigator in biglaw who, by your estimation, doesn't really stand out, how much time do you have left in Biglaw anyway? 2 years? In that respect, an extra two years isn't going to get you that much closer to your dream of buying a home in an expensive city.
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Date: July 26th, 2014 10:09 AM Author: twisted impressive resort Your second point is highly credited and one that has occurred to me. I guess building up enough for a down payment was what I had in mind. I you are right that I probably have only two more years left here anyway. I admit part of it is pride and not feeling like a quitter .
Difficult to describe position without outing.. It's in DC, and it's very much inward focused -- think running investigations for the GAO. It is uber government, with no obvious private sector transferability. Also no real use for my lit skills. That said, it never ceases to amaze me how many gov people in DC manage to find some private sector niche based on their specialty. How lucrative those are is another question. |
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Date: July 26th, 2014 10:21 AM Author: Excitant Violet Philosopher-king With all due respect from a fellow litigator, your "lit skills" have no real private sector transferability other than to another law firm. I don't have the specifics, but I wager that the skills learned in the new job would be more transferable to a private sector position.
Look, you don't like the job and you don't seem like you really give a fuck (and I don't blame you). The only people who make it in biglaw are those who strive or those who, for whatever weird reason, really love the job. So it's pretty much a countdown until your exit.
Staying two years just to build up another 100K cushion would be nice. That said, I'm not familiar with gov jobs but this seems like a pretty high-paying opportunity. What is really the likelihood you can hold out for two years and then have this fall into your lap?
There's also the part that you would, you know, get to see your little dude grow up. |
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Date: July 26th, 2014 11:25 AM Author: twisted impressive resort Ty (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2628397&forum_id=2#26004681) |
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Date: July 26th, 2014 12:05 PM Author: High-end stimulating half-breed parlour Take the job. It seems like the only reason to stay is for a little more money. Not worth it, particularly since you'll only get more used to having dough, and your lifestyle will inevitably ratchet upwards as you hit year 5. Then it'll be harder to leave even if you can get a job like this again (not likely).
Fed jobs are impossible to get (I have HYS,CA9, etc. and didn't get a single interview for those I applied to). Take this one. If it's an internal investigative type position you could easily spin it in to some compliance bullshit in-house position down the line and make more $$$. |
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Date: July 26th, 2014 5:18 PM Author: twisted impressive resort Damn. No interviews with those creds? I knew I had beginner's luck but maybe didn't realize the extent. This is one of the first few I've applied to. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2628397&forum_id=2#26005910) |
Date: July 26th, 2014 8:50 AM Author: glittery ivory twinkling uncleanness dopamine You better fucking RUN to that fed job man. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2628397&forum_id=2#26004363) |
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Date: July 26th, 2014 8:58 AM Author: pea-brained turquoise theatre "Wait for the next lifeboat," 1st Mate Rudolph said floating among the wreckage of the Titanic, "More are coming." (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2628397&forum_id=2#26004377) |
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Date: July 26th, 2014 9:01 AM Author: twisted impressive resort Lol this is actually part of my calculus. I think I got a little lucky landing this job. I know people who looked for a year or more. FedGov is not that easy to land. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2628397&forum_id=2#26004382) |
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Date: July 26th, 2014 9:28 AM Author: Flirting Dysfunction lol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2628397&forum_id=2#26004409) |
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Date: July 26th, 2014 9:37 AM Author: mahogany fanboi business firm (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2628397&forum_id=2#26004419) |
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Date: July 26th, 2014 10:06 AM Author: vibrant yarmulke set (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2628397&forum_id=2#26004490) |
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Date: July 26th, 2014 10:09 AM Author: Gay Lascivious Home lol poor litigators (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2628397&forum_id=2#26004492) |
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Date: July 6th, 2020 12:19 PM Author: Aggressive trump supporter (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2628397&forum_id=2#40555282) |
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Date: July 27th, 2014 9:24 AM Author: glassy histrionic pit 180 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2628397&forum_id=2#26008945) |
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Date: July 26th, 2014 9:00 AM Author: salmon appetizing cruise ship Does your wife work? If not can she start? How much could she contribute? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2628397&forum_id=2#26004380) |
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Date: July 26th, 2014 9:02 AM Author: twisted impressive resort Yes. She makes around 95k at the moment. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2628397&forum_id=2#26004384) |
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Date: July 26th, 2014 9:21 AM Author: Talented dog poop You sound like u have a good life bro (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2628397&forum_id=2#26004398) |
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Date: July 26th, 2014 9:40 AM Author: salmon appetizing cruise ship You should be all set taking the bigfed job bro. You'll have more job security and probably more time to spend with the kid anyway. I'd do it. Over 200K household income is good. Only other factor would be if your wife has as much debt as you do and if you guys want more kids soon. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2628397&forum_id=2#26004426) |
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Date: July 26th, 2014 10:03 AM Author: twisted impressive resort I appreciate that in the grand scheme of things I have a good life and that these concerns come across as douchey to most. I always scoffed at the idea of golden handcuffs before biglaw and swore that would never be me . But it's real. I also admit that part of me feels like a failure walking away when others can hack it for longer.
My wife has about 70k in debt FWIW. |
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Date: July 26th, 2014 10:17 AM Author: up-to-no-good school cafeteria Just do PAYE (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2628397&forum_id=2#26004508) |
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Date: July 26th, 2014 10:18 AM Author: Exhilarant magenta stag film depressive No other job will be any better. HTH. Hours are horrible everywhere and the stress is the same. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2628397&forum_id=2#26004510) |
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Date: July 26th, 2014 5:23 PM Author: sable hilarious national i was HYS/biglaw for 4 years and i applied to anything on USAjobs and had no hits other than an SEC examiner job that required 25% travel and paid like $80k. i applied to a DOL job through a connection and didnt even get an interview. basically it's tough out there and you hit the jackpot. your litigation skills are not transferable other than to another firm job.
i suggest taking the job b/c likely you won't do better than this. |
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Date: July 26th, 2014 5:34 PM Author: twisted impressive resort Thanks. What I meant was that this job, unlike other gov jobs, involves no litigation. Clearly a job like a DOJ trial lawyer (or other gov lit job that involves appearances in some kind of federal court) would build more directly on the skills I've picked up. Not saying I learned *that* much in two and a half years, but I am not a total newbie.
But point taken. When I am in the throes of intense litigation it's hellish anyway. |
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Date: July 26th, 2014 5:42 PM Author: Vigorous Background Story Litigation sucks, man. I did 2.5 years of biglaw litigation, and then left to a boutique where I now do maybe 10% litigation. Some of the skills like succinct writing transfer to other areas. Otherwise, you just learn whatever you need to learn. Staying in litigation ends badly for most people who are never going to be rainmaker partners. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2628397&forum_id=2#26005989) |
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Date: July 26th, 2014 6:19 PM Author: Orchid Diverse Hissy Fit Den What do you do now? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2628397&forum_id=2#26006080) |
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Date: July 26th, 2014 5:28 PM Author: Vigorous Background Story I'd jump ship, personally. That sounds like a good offer. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2628397&forum_id=2#26005949) |
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Date: July 26th, 2014 5:32 PM Author: up-to-no-good school cafeteria Don't take the job. U and ur wife have $200k in loan debt. Ur fucked. U need to pay ASAP (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2628397&forum_id=2#26005958) |
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Date: July 26th, 2014 6:14 PM Author: duck-like space ape 117K? The fuck? How did you get a GS-14 step 4 job after 2-ish years of practice?
Sounds a little flame-y, or like you're dressing up the gig a bit. Most people who start in BIGFED are GS-11/12 and work their way up to 14 after a while and then they are STUCK. Well, scratch that: if you are a boomer you c-walk right into a nice GS-15 policy gig that gets you SES and then you cop a bonus which brings you to 200K and then get consulting offers so you have a great life. If you're a Millennial you are stuck on GS-14 forever unless you get extremely lucky.
Also have to ask: why did you have a kid so early? |
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Date: July 26th, 2014 6:26 PM Author: twisted impressive resort GS-13 10.
Re kid, you are making assumptions about my age based on my number of years in big law. |
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Date: July 26th, 2014 6:29 PM Author: duck-like space ape Why did you non-trad it up big breh?
What are the chances you can cop a GS-14/15 track gig? I would be worried about being stuck forever at 117K in an expensive place like DC |
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Date: July 26th, 2014 6:39 PM Author: twisted impressive resort Nothing in my posts suggests this isn't a GS-14/15 track gig. That is another assumption on your part. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2628397&forum_id=2#26006140) |
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Date: July 26th, 2014 7:03 PM Author: duck-like space ape My question does not preclude the assumption that it your position is closed off from 14/15 grade increases, but you are not entitled to a grade increase without supervisory approval, so I am asking you what the chances are. 100%? Can you be a little less cagey? Are you working on a brief and can't get your head out of litigation mode for a few minutes? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2628397&forum_id=2#26006237) |