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Biglaw Lit > In-House BD Compliance $180k
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Date: July 30th, 2014 5:45 PM Author: Chestnut milk Subject: Worth it? Dood I went to LS with is talking about it. I think he's a fourth year. Could be lying about comp.
Is this credited or a bad idea? |
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Date: July 30th, 2014 5:46 PM Author: vibrant hall tank whats a BD? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26030353) |
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Date: July 30th, 2014 5:46 PM Author: Chestnut milk broker-dealer, brokerage house (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26030356) |
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Date: July 30th, 2014 5:47 PM Author: vibrant hall tank jesus thats a lot of money. what city? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26030358) |
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Date: July 30th, 2014 5:48 PM Author: Chestnut milk NYC (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26030364) |
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Date: July 30th, 2014 5:52 PM Author: vibrant hall tank what does broker dealer compliance even mean? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26030387) |
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Date: July 30th, 2014 5:55 PM Author: Chestnut milk I think it's strictly a genre of the financial services industry. Deal with regulators, write up policies, make sure traders aren't breaking the rules, etc. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26030418) |
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Date: July 30th, 2014 5:58 PM Author: vibrant hall tank and 180k for an entry level gig? the mid-level and senior people must be clearing 500-750k easy then (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26030431) |
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Date: July 30th, 2014 6:01 PM Author: Chestnut milk I don't think it's entry level. Dood worked in finance before LS. I also said earlier, I think he's a midlevel associate currently. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26030449) |
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Date: July 30th, 2014 6:29 PM Author: vibrant hall tank nice (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26030635) |
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Date: July 30th, 2014 6:57 PM Author: Mauve aromatic french chef lol, easy (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26030749) |
Date: July 30th, 2014 6:49 PM Author: Dashing ratface It is a pretty chill job. Dealing with regulatory inquiries, drafting compliance manuals, issuing regulatory updates, etc. $180K seems about right for a senior dude. I know some peeps that do this at JPMS and they make about that much as senior regulatory/compliance dudes.
Edit: Sometimes these guys make a jump to legal. So, he has that going for him. |
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Date: July 30th, 2014 6:50 PM Author: vibrant hall tank whats the career trajectory like? can one expect to top 300-350k in a few yrs? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26030721) |
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Date: July 30th, 2014 6:51 PM Author: Dashing ratface Either go into legal department or become a Chief Compliance Officer. Some dudes will jump to the legal department of smaller BDs or FCMs.
Also, $300K is not realistic. Perhaps if he became CCO of some BD like JPMorgan. |
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Date: July 30th, 2014 6:52 PM Author: vibrant hall tank what about more info on pay going forward and a compensation ceiling? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26030731) |
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Date: July 30th, 2014 6:53 PM Author: Dashing ratface I am only familiar with senior or midlevel salaries for compliance bros. [Edit: I am not sure if that stuff was completely accurate]
A lot of my legal work comes from compliance bros. They do some legal work, but it is more regulatory compliance/legal. |
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Date: July 30th, 2014 6:55 PM Author: vibrant hall tank what if he moves into legal? how are those salaries typically? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26030743) |
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Date: July 30th, 2014 6:57 PM Author: Dashing ratface It depends on the entity. I am not sure. I am more familiar with futures entities. If he goes to JPMorgan probably more than if he was at a shop like RJ O'brien. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26030746) |
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Date: July 30th, 2014 6:57 PM Author: Chestnut milk Depends on the size of the shop. $300k+ is not unheard of for CCOs at certain banks and fund shops. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26030750) |
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Date: July 30th, 2014 7:06 PM Author: talented sound barrier lol our cco makes like ~$4M/year (we are private boutique).
i imagine at the BBs, the CCO is making at least few million. |
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Date: July 30th, 2014 7:09 PM Author: Chestnut milk Haven't been on here in years but I remember you. Nice to see you. What's your role at the boutique? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26030812) |
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Date: July 30th, 2014 7:13 PM Author: talented sound barrier in-house legal, not compliance. not at a broker dealer...registered adviser with ~$30B AUM.
compliance in BD seems kinda niche for your friend but he can prob leverage that into a legal job at some point. i'd definitely take it if he wants to get the hell outta lit (which i did). |
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Date: July 30th, 2014 7:19 PM Author: Chestnut milk Nice, yea I feel you. Very cool. I would assume your comp must be comparable if not better?
I know a guy that's in-house GC/CCO at an RIA since '07 (obviously survived the crash). He loves it naturally. |
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Date: July 30th, 2014 7:34 PM Author: talented sound barrier it's pretty great, mainly b/c there is no time crunch on most things. comp is better than biglaw at my level. i don't know what the compliance guys make here but i think a little less than legal as a general matter. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26030926) |
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Date: July 30th, 2014 7:23 PM Author: vibrant hall tank How easy would it be to go from a broker dealer to an adviser firm, assuming one is in the legal dept? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26030879) |
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Date: July 30th, 2014 7:25 PM Author: Chestnut milk Depends on the work experience and the size of the shop. I've definitely seen it happen, but you need to be known by others in the field. Good references go a long way in niche areas like this -- networking is still credited in this area. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26030893) |
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Date: July 30th, 2014 7:29 PM Author: vibrant hall tank Noted. What kind of work experience would be preferable? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26030911) |
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Date: July 30th, 2014 8:30 PM Author: Chestnut milk If by adviser you mean RIAs/hedge funds, then obviously work at a B/D that services lots of them. Working with filings and regulatory inquires/exams would also be a convertible skill set. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26031171) |
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Date: July 30th, 2014 7:30 PM Author: talented sound barrier i'm not sure, but i would assume not that difficult?
i mean, we're already talking about niche spaces to begin with and if you're limiting yourself to only candidates from RIAs (v. HFs, FCMs, BDs, etc etc), you're prob not going to have many people come through the door.
i think the person getting the job likely has a connection though, regardless of what field they are in. that's how i see most of the back office jobs being filled here. |
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Date: August 6th, 2014 3:56 PM Author: Azure demanding ticket booth indirect expression It would probably help if you went somewhere that had both an RIA and a BD. If you're doing something like AML, it would probably be easier to transition. But if they want someone with experience with the 40 Act, or Advisers Act or drafting offering documents, then you're not going to have that. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26074476) |
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Date: July 30th, 2014 7:11 PM Author: Dashing ratface I was interviewing for a CCO position at a FoF, and I walked away once I learned of the compensation. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26030828) |
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Date: July 30th, 2014 6:51 PM Author: Chestnut milk Yea, I mean I think that was the main concern he had -- whether he could ever be a practicing attorney again (if so desired). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26030727) |
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Date: July 30th, 2014 6:54 PM Author: Dashing ratface He will still be doing legal work, except it is regulatory compliance. There are firms that have practices dedicated to just this. About 1/3 of my legal work comes from compliance bros.
I almost jumped ship to compliance. I was 1 stage away from doing compliance work for a Scandanavian entity. FMA. I would have spent half the year in Scandinavai.
Edit: He can leverage his experience to get back into law later on. He will learn |
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Date: July 30th, 2014 7:01 PM Author: Chestnut milk Sounds like you know your stuff about the derivatives space. FCMs, SDs and SEFs are all hiring compliance hardcore right now so there are options, but comps definitely vary. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26030762) |
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Date: July 30th, 2014 7:08 PM Author: Chestnut milk What kind of firm you at now? I will assume one of the few firms with very direct practice specialties - CWT/DP/ML/Katten/SRZ/Seward... |
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Date: July 30th, 2014 7:12 PM Author: Dashing ratface Boutique dept for sure. Compliance is very hot right now.
U in this realm too? I have been trying to go inhouse but with no success. |
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Date: July 30th, 2014 7:22 PM Author: Chestnut milk Is your comp comparable if you don't mind me asking? I know he was considering boutique firms and practice groups for a bit before.
EDIT: Sorry, I didn't see your Q. Yea, I practice in securities/derivatives lit. |
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Date: July 30th, 2014 7:23 PM Author: Dashing ratface I make what Nutella would consider poverty level income, but the hours are amazing. All in I make about $130k, but I have billed 700 hours to date. edit: I am in a low col area.
SEC and CFTC are looking for trial attys. I imagine ur in NYC bc few ppl would know of Seward. There are a few legit boutique firms, but u will take a pay cut. I have dealt with Seward on Fund deals, and they are pretty cool. |
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Date: July 30th, 2014 7:28 PM Author: Chestnut milk NYC? Chicago? Definitely not that bad. Interesting, because he was considering jobs like that, and was thinking about the lower comp because it was still an "attorney role." I guess it doesn't matter too much.
SEC and CFTC are not. Any USAJOBs postings are a tease. I know attorneys at both. |
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Date: July 30th, 2014 7:29 PM Author: Dashing ratface Really? Bro just told me about both agencies needing trial attys. Perhaps, it was just hallway chatter. CFTC wants to stop being the red headed step child. Also, i agree with USAjobs being flame.
Edit: I enjoy my work place. It gets frustrating at times, but I get to do fund formation. That is something I always wanted to do.
U involved in dat MFG mess? |
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Date: July 30th, 2014 8:26 PM Author: Chestnut milk If you're not in Chicago or NJ, you're definitely in a sweet spot somewhere unique for working in this space. Even Kansas City is getting quiet on this front. I had a piece of MFG, you?
CFTC funding is choked hard and will only get worse. SEC is on a tight leash. Neither is actually permitted to hire attorneys in any department just yet, whether or not they want to. |
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Date: August 5th, 2014 11:15 PM Author: Dashing ratface I have worked on some of that MFG stuff. It was pretty interesting to see how the money flowed.
Do you do some SD work? If you do, I have a question for you regarding the dealer/trader distinction for firms exceeding swap volume thresholds. |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 6:16 PM Author: Chestnut milk Sorry for the delayed response. In your research, I'm sure you probably came across federal rulemakings and interpretive guidance issued in April 2012 regarding the application of the distinction. If that doesn't answer your question, I'm not sure there's much more I can add. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26082502) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 6:25 PM Author: Dashing ratface Yea, I already knew about that. Thanks anyways. I was wondering if there were any new developments. SEC Mary Jo recently talked about reviewing the dealer/trader distinction, and I was wanted to see if there has been anything going on at the CFTC (considering that it relied on the SEC). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26082555) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 6:32 PM Author: Chestnut milk The short answer is no. CFTC's DSIO has not issued anything recently on the subject. Make a few calls and I'm sure you could probably find out whether anything is currently being drafted to address. I wouldn't count on it. If you have a client relying on it, an opinion letter applying the current distinction to your fact pattern will probably satisfy regulators for now. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26082596) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 6:34 PM Author: Dashing ratface Thanks brother. Client just wanted an update, but I am not sure it warrants a call at the moment. Seems like the industry is relying on dat dealer/trader distinction for now. I'll see if the partner wants me to call or not. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26082607) |
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Date: July 30th, 2014 9:06 PM Author: Chestnut milk bumpin for that night crowd (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26031371) |
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Date: August 4th, 2014 9:07 PM Author: Chestnut milk I want m0ar thoughts. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26062193) |
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Date: August 5th, 2014 6:49 PM Author: vibrant hall tank (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26068571) |
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Date: August 5th, 2014 6:56 PM Author: Stubborn amethyst psychic Given how many "thoughts" you want on this, I'd say your friend is you.
I worked in a dep't like this pre-LS and think about going back. I'll answer Qs. |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 5:28 PM Author: Chestnut milk Thanks for posting. I used to be more active on here years ago and it can be confirmed that my career path is a bit different than this guy.
So does the comp make sense? Like I said, I'm not sure how true it is.
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Date: August 5th, 2014 9:12 PM Author: Disturbing underhanded twinkling uncleanness Compliance sucks. Don't know what to tell you. Would avoid if possible. I get that CCO of Blackstone or whatever makes a lot of money, but that's not your track if you start off at a junior level.
180k is nice and if you are on the verge of quitting, ok. But I would hold out for a legal position if you think that is possible in a few years. |
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Date: August 5th, 2014 10:24 PM Author: Twisted lodge dog poop What do you mean it's "not your track?" A lot of these people came in-house from a big firm as midlevel associates. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26069851) |
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Date: August 5th, 2014 10:27 PM Author: Disturbing underhanded twinkling uncleanness The chances that you are going to be come CCO of a big shop and get paid millions is about as likely as working at the DOJ and then becoming attorney general.
One your resume has been stained with compliance, you'll have a very hard time getting out of that. A compliance role only makes sense if you are general counsel. |
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Date: August 5th, 2014 10:36 PM Author: Twisted lodge dog poop Your odds are never going to be good, but you're not on the wrong track, like a starting as a staff attorney when your goal is to make partner. GC is not a compliance role. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26069946) |
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Date: August 5th, 2014 10:38 PM Author: Disturbing underhanded twinkling uncleanness GC at a small shop is generally also the CCO. That's literally the only time its acceptable for a biglaw associate to take compliance.
Well, except if you are really desperate. 180k is nothing to sniff at and if you just want to move on, fine, i get it. But compliance sucks and is not a "track" to anything interesting long term. |
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Date: August 6th, 2014 11:07 PM Author: Twisted lodge dog poop LJL @ biglaw associates thinking they're "above" compliance. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26077393) |
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Date: August 5th, 2014 10:50 PM Author: talented sound barrier i agree that compliance sucks as a general matter and the work is mind-numbing but i think this is a decent option for the "friend" b/c:
1) he is a shitttigator and has very little chance of getting in-house legal as a general matter, particularly at that high level of pay. $180k is definitely not an entry-level position, which is more in the $80-100k range after bonus.
2) i don't think it'd be that difficult to move from compliance to legal once he's got his foot in the door b/c he'd be in a relatively niche industry and he'd have a leg up on most attorneys coming from big firms, 95% of whom are just general corporate attys with no specialized knowledge of the industry, just like he was when he went in-house.
3) he likely won't become cco at morgan stanley, but he can jump to smaller places later on in his career where he can be cco. he's not going to be making millions, but $400-500k as cco at a smaller boutique which is very common when it's a reputable place is nothing to scoff at.
4) i think for mid-level biglaw associates, they need to start thinking of just getting your foot in the door in the first place. embarking on a specific industry path is a lot more beneficial than continuing to be a generalist. that's one of the problems w/ being in biglaw that most associates rarely specialize in any particular industry so they're not a particularly attractive candidate for any particular company. you might be doing debt financing, but that doesn't mean you do it for film studios, for instance. he may never have an opportunity in this particular industry again due to his background. but once you're in the field and have your foot in, you have a leg up and the options open up b/c there are so few people actually competing with you. and this particular field happens to be one of the more lucrative ones. |
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Date: August 5th, 2014 11:16 PM Author: exhilarant corner skinny woman Buddy of mine actually went from doc review to an associate gig making 110k at a big bank. Seems like the jump isn't that hard to make. Also, the industry is booming right now. I will say this...the hours aren't as cushy you mot expect. Not bad, but expect to be working til 7 every night. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26070281) |
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Date: August 6th, 2014 12:13 PM Author: Disturbing underhanded twinkling uncleanness 180k is nice and if this job is the best you can do, there is no shame in it.
I think dreams of being CCO at a hedge fund making 400k are pretty unlikely, TBH. Those jobs are rare and generally require a lot of experience and often are also mixed in with the GC role. Even if you do make it to CCO and make a lot of money, you are getting paid to do really, really horrible, boring shit that makes law seem like an intellectual paradise. Your $ per hour (CCOs work a lot) compared to law or business is very poor. Compliance is not a legal job - you don't need a JD to do compliance. that's the way you need to think about it.
I really would not hold out much hope of moving from compliance to legal. I'm sure it happens, but I haven't seen it happen. If anything, the reverse is more likely - moving from legal to compliance. I've known a couple lawyers who have had to quit large banks after threatened with a move to compliance - its a type of layoff. Compliance is busy and hard to staff because it is so meaningless and there is so little upward mobility, so they won't want to give up the "friend" once the "friend" is there.
Listen, life is what you make it and I am sure there are fact patterns where this could lead to a great legal career. My own view is that you shouldn't go into Career X (in this case compliance) in order to get to Career Y (legal or business), but you should try to go directly even if it requires a paycut or waiting a few more years.
But, if that is not possible and you think your other options will lead to working in claims at an insurance company or something similarly horrible, $180k is a ton of cash so it totally makes sense. You just need to balance your other options. |
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Date: August 6th, 2014 3:44 PM Author: Azure demanding ticket booth indirect expression Compliance hours are rarely bad. A CCO at a small firm is probably not working a lot of late nights and weekends; I sure as hell didn't. It's a field where you can work your way up if you want to, and there are usually a lot of lateral opportunities. For a lot of the current compliance openings, they're primarily or exclusively considering people with JDs. In some cases, Legal and Compliance are not really separate groups (e.g., D.E. Shaw). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26074410) |
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Date: August 6th, 2014 11:16 PM Author: talented sound barrier most of this post is wrong.
first, i don't know where you get that get that compliance folks work hard. they work 40-45 hrs/week at most places, which is a normal job. there are rarely any fire drills and very rarely any real issues. the work is mostly routine on a set schedule and if anything gets escalated where you're actually interacting w/ the SEC or FINRA, legal generally takes over. i did remember interviewing for a goldman sachs compliance job when i was in biglaw where they worked 7:30-8pm everyday and that is definitely one exception to the rule. it's GS, so of course it is more intense.
as for getting stuck in a compliance track...assuming that's true, so what? it is not the death knell. there are tons of lucrative compliance jobs outside of being CCO. as an example, i got a recruiter call for guggenheim partners regarding a compliance officer position which was only recruiting existing in-house legal or compliance folks, not big firm associates. this is a VP position paying around $250-300k. they preferred a compliance and not legal in-house person for this position. positions like these are dime a dozen and open to anybody who is already in a somewhat senior compliance role, which $180k would be. they are not open to big firm attorneys. if you told your average biglaw associate that they may make $150-200k for 5 years and then they can make $250-300k for 25 years working 40-45 hours/week until retirement, it sounds like an awesome career outcome.
as for moving from in-house compliance to legal, the reason you don't see it happening is b/c you see a extremely tiny slice of the entire universe of in-house legal and compliance jobs from people you know. my firm works with over a hundred 100 broker dealers, fund administrators, custodians, and other service providers for mutual funds, hedge funds, etc. i've gotten to know some compliance folks very well at some of these place, a bunch of them have JDs, and if a legal job opens up, these people will have a leg up on any big firm associate without question.
once you're actually in the industry, you start realizing exactly how many positions there are and how few people are actually competitive. if you're a compliance guy w/ a JD and a biglaw resume with all the bells and whistles, you may be beat out by an in-house legal guy w/ the same resume, but there's frankly not enough competition from in-house legal folks to shut you out completely. either way, you have an undisputed leg up on every big firm associate, unless you're actually an associate at the firm servicing the fund.
breaking into the industry and establishing the connections is a lot more effective than waiting around on the outside for the in-house legal job to open up. |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 4:07 PM Author: Disturbing underhanded twinkling uncleanness BB compliance people work hard. If he's getting paid 180k, he'll probably have to work hard. Could be an exception, but I wouldn't count on it.
I agree that these positions are a dime a dozen. There is a reason why they are that way. There is very little upside here and the job is boring as shit. I'm not saying 180k or 250k tops is bad or anything, but the job sucks. I can't believe you are arguing this with me. and, again, you probably aren't making 250k at guggenheim and working 40 hrs a week. That's not how it works at a large institution. And 250k kinda sucks for a JD at a large financial institution.
the compliance people may or may not have a "leg up" at a legal job opening. A compliance job is a "JD preferred" job. You are not really a lawyer. Yes, you might be able to move up at your current shop if you perform, but its risky, and it will be very hard to go into a legal job at some other shop. And, if you want a legal job anyway, why do compliance? It's not a legal job.
inhouse jobs are hard to find and extremely competitive. I don't know what you are smoking. Some guy with compliance on his resume might have a leg up at another job that also involves some compliance, but you are kidding yourself if you don't think there are literally thousands of asset management biglaw resumes floating around out there. also i really do think someone whose spent 7 years doing corporate law at a big firm is indisputably in a much better position to get an inhouse legal job than someone who did 3 years at a firm and then 4 years doing compliance.
i would hold out, but that's just me. I also did corporate from the start. It sounds like this person will have a litigation law firm background and then a compliance in house background. Could that lead to a corporate in house job some day? Maybe, but it's an uphill battle and there is a real risk that you stay in compliance forever, and you will want to kill yourself.
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Date: August 7th, 2014 7:20 PM Author: talented sound barrier i think the issue here is that you don't really know what exactly legal and compliance jobs mean in the asset management industry. you seem to think that legal and compliance are 2 completely different tracks and being in legal means you're doing "sophisticated" legal work running "deals" while in compliance, you're writing compliance manuals and running a credit risk analysis.
the reality is that a lawyer in asset management will be, at a minimum, doing at least 25-30% compliance-related work. there are no "deals" in the biglaw sense of the word. you negotiate agreements with clients and service providers which are standard forms for the most part. that is the only purely legal work. everything else that legal does entails supporting other groups - compliance, IR, S&T, etc. it really isn't legal work.
because so much of in-house legal isn't actually legal work, a 7 year corporate law associate isn't the best candidate for the job. corporate law skills are completely irrelevant for the job. they would absolutely pick the guy w/ 3 years corporate and then 4 years compliance over the guy who spent 7 years at a big firm. there is much more overlap btwn compliance and legal than you think.
and no, there are not "thousands" of asset management biglaw resumes floating around. there are about 3-5 firms with strong asset management practices and they're all v50-100 type firms with more reasonable rates. it's not a particularly lucrative practice area for big firms b/c there isn't much high stakes work coming out of it. your average V20 candiate will not have any experience that appeals to your average asset management firm. |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 7:24 PM Author: Stubborn amethyst psychic I don't think you heard him. This guy would be a V5 corporate lawyer with SEVEN YEARS OF DEAL EXPERIENCE. Can't you see the futility of talking about your petty little first-hand experience in the face of that kind of INTELLECTUAL AND PRESTIGE FIREPOWER??? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26082957) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 7:26 PM Author: Stubborn amethyst psychic double post (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26082964) |
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Date: August 6th, 2014 7:03 PM Author: Stubborn amethyst psychic Bro, have you ever worked in legal or compliance at a bank? Because I have and your advice ITT is totally wrong in nearly every respect.
First, your resume is not "stained" with compliance in a broker-dealer context -- I worked at a B/D before LS and the guy I reported to was in compliance. He had previously been biglawyer and occupied various in-house roles both in legal and compliance, moving back and forth between them easily. I worked with a guy whose career trajectory was V3 -> BD legal > BD business > BD compliance > BD legal.
The 180k compliance jobs you get out of biglaw are not the shitty ones they offer to entry level people (like me, out of college). They are hardly distinguishable from legal, and your pay is more based on seniority/perceived competence/bootlicking (HEAVY emphasis on the last) than whether you are legal or compliance.
Second, assuming -- the the sake of argument -- that it's even slightly easier to get a job going in-house legal to in-house legal than in-house compliance to in-house legal, it is 100X easier to go in-house compliance to in-house legal than lawfirm midlevel to either. Banks are ALL about who you know and your reputation as a worker/asskisser. Your faceless v10 resume is literally a shitstain compared to knowing people inside, and having worked with them.
I'm working on going in-house right now and every bit of traction I get is my connections in the industry. If you have law firm experience and a 180k compliance job you are FAR better positioned to move to legal than being at a law firm.
This whole post is proceeding on the premise that in-house legal is far better than compliance and something everyone wants to shift to, which is also false. There are very high-profile and high paid compliance positions at banks (well below CCO level) that are better than many legal positions. |
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Date: August 6th, 2014 7:05 PM Author: exhilarant corner skinny woman Delete that post bro. I dont want any extra competition. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26075741) |
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Date: August 6th, 2014 7:08 PM Author: Stubborn amethyst psychic I thought this was for your "friend" bro ;) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26075753) |
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Date: August 6th, 2014 7:09 PM Author: exhilarant corner skinny woman I have a friend who just went in house doing compliance. I would like to go as well. I dont think he rrally cares about the competition because he already got the gig. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26075762) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 5:37 PM Author: Chestnut milk Actually, I am the OP, and my buddy already made the move. Said he loves it so far since there's no need to record time. He's still very curious what the bonuses will look like. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26082323) |
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Date: August 6th, 2014 11:29 PM Author: Curious Brindle Stead THIS. I work in compliance. The field is 1000% about who you know. Prestige still matters and LMAO at breaking into this field now 7 years after the bubble without MASSIVE experience on your resume, but since compliance is a cost center and you are not there to generate business they are way less interested in your pedigree than they are in how much of a worker bee you are and who can vouch for you. People constantly come in from legal and go back to legal. And it is very incestuous in terms of who we hire. People hired from outside come from the same half dozen firms the people doing the hiring came from. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26077535) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 4:17 PM Author: Disturbing underhanded twinkling uncleanness honestly don't disagree with anything in your poast and don't how it at all conflicts with my poast. well, except that your resume is "stained" with compliance, like it or not.
I literally get 3 calls a day from headhunters about compliance jobs. These jobs are so hard to fill because they suck so much, they are literally desperate. Getting a true legal inhouse job is much more difficult and requires leveraging your network, like you say.
I didn't say that it is impossible to get a decent job out of compliance. Obviously bootlicking is key and you can move your way up. I'm just saying its not the best first entry point for someone coming from a top firm - unless you are talking about one of those legal jobs where they call the entire legal department "legal and compliance."
The question I always ask people is - what do you want to do? Do you want to review marketing materials and write compliance policies? Or do you want to do deal work? The people who do deal work are on a better track than the people who write compliance policies. In particular, if you someday want to move over to the business side, compliance is a step in the wrong direction.
"There are very high-profile and high paid compliance positions at banks (well below CCO level) that are better than many legal positions."
Of course there are. What's your point? There are also many janitors in the city of NY that get paid more than junior investment bankers. So what?
Perhaps part of our disconnect is that I'm coming from a V5. I could see how if you were at a mediocre law firm, perhaps you should just take whatever in into the bank you can get. At a top tier firm, though, going into a compliance role would be viewed as a bad exit option. |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 5:48 PM Author: Twisted lodge dog poop It doesn't seem like you actually know anything about BD compliance, which is to be expected from someone who has only done corporate work at a biglaw firm. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26082367) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 7:05 PM Author: Stubborn amethyst psychic He doesn't, but he doesnt want to let that stop him from disagreeing with nutella and me -- who have worked at broker dealers. But, hey, nutella and I only work/worked at v10s, not v5s, so he must be right. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26082851) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 7:29 PM Author: talented sound barrier haven't worked at a broker dealer but given our interactions w/ tons of broker dealers, i communicate with the same contacts and i get emails all the time like "hey, this contact moved over to the legal side so i'm now the new contact" so i know this stuff happens.
i don't know how anybody who doesn't see the nitty-gritty everyday workings of the industry (which isn't sexy for the most part) can opine on how it works. lawyers are not doing deals or forming funds while the compliance folks are running KYC/AML. hell, today, i had to send out W-9s for an AML check and i'm a fucking lawyer. i'm also matching dodd frank protocol questionnaires to BD counterparties. none of this stuff is legal work at all. why would we hire a V5 corporate atty to do something that a compliance guy knows how to do on the back of his hand? |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 7:36 PM Author: Stubborn amethyst psychic my bad. i have worked at a b/d. in fairness to his shitty posts, it's probably true that the compliance/legal divide is greater in other industries, but as you know it's just not so in asset management or sales and trading work.
i also think there's a propensity for law firm lawyers who havent tried to go in house in any industry to vastly exaggerate the importance of their law firm experience. 95% of in house jobs would rather have someone who prior in house experience. (speaking as a current firm lawyer). |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 7:46 PM Author: talented sound barrier i think he is also confusing IB or PE with asset management. there are literally no deals happening in asset management, which is also why corporate firm work is so irrelevant and why the hours in legal/compliance are not as bad due to lack of time pressure. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26083029) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 7:49 PM Author: Stubborn amethyst psychic yes, although on the sell side the dealer function is part of the investment bank. m&a is only one function of the investment bank. asset management is separate from all of that, at least where i worked. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26083040) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 7:04 PM Author: Stubborn amethyst psychic I don't really know how to help you except that not all compliance jobs are created equal and you don't seem to know the difference. You have absolutely no insight into how B/D compliance jobs work, or how BD/s work in general, and so your only basis for disagreeing with me are bald assertions such as "your resume is "stained" with compliance, like it or not." having watched tons of people first hand go back and forth between legal and compliance, you can imagine how compelling this "argument" is to me.
You are literally talking in generalities about "deal work" versus compliance policies to people who have actually worked with legal and compliance people at at a broker-dealer. By the way, broker-dealer lawyers are not "deal lawyers" -- they support sales & trading, not the M&A function of the bank. But don't let your complete lack of familiarity with investment banks stop you from giving people advice or anything. (What do you do at your v5, btw, labor and employment?)
The point is that the the compliance roles better than legal roles at banks aren't only super senior janitors compared to super junior lawyers. |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 7:29 PM Author: Saffron love of her life hell V5!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26082976) |
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Date: August 6th, 2014 11:31 PM Author: vibrant hall tank what are bonuses like for legal counsel in this niche field? ive heard 25%, 45%, and 100% of base salary. any consensus? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26077553) |
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Date: August 6th, 2014 11:35 PM Author: Curious Brindle Stead Last few years closer to ZERO to 10%. Banks have basically killed bonuses for anyone working in cost centers which includes both legal and compliance. Upfront salaries now are 10-15% higher than in biglaw so 180k v. 160k but dont plan on any kind of bonus. My bonus last year was a laughable 10k. I should add I work in AML compliance and not BD so we make less money, but the same is true on the BD end. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26077583) |
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Date: August 6th, 2014 11:37 PM Author: vibrant hall tank my friend got a nutella-like bonus last year...in the neighborhood of 150-175% of his base salary. due to the market doing well. this much i can vouch for. he says he has never gotten less than 100% but 150-175% was very unusual. what kinds of financial service companies are this generous? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26077604) |
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Date: August 6th, 2014 11:38 PM Author: Stubborn amethyst psychic people at the BB bank I used to work for got 25%-33%ish bonuses last year. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26077621) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 11:46 AM Author: Azure demanding ticket booth indirect expression If your bonus is that shitty, you need to look for another job. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26080298) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 3:02 PM Author: Dashing ratface I have never asked people about their bonuses, but a former in-house counsel at an FCM suggested that BDs and FCMs are not profit centers and try to cut costs at every corner. I am guessing that holds true in terms of compensation for compliance people that work with these service participants. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26081388) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 5:56 PM Author: vibrant hall tank what is an FCM (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26082391) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 5:59 PM Author: Dashing ratface FCM is a "futures commission merchant." Think of a BD on the futures side. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26082405) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 6:07 PM Author: Chestnut milk Yup, indeed many FCMs are affiliated with an associated BD, and now swap dealers too thanks to Dodd-Frank. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26082433) |
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Date: August 6th, 2014 11:43 PM Author: talented sound barrier HFs and smaller RIAs with very small legal depts (think 1-5 people) are where you're going to get the biggest bonuses. too big of an army of lawyers/compliance folks at a bulge brackets to get a very lucrative bonus, but your base salary is generally going to be higher at a BB than at a smaller firm. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26077675) |
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Date: August 6th, 2014 11:47 PM Author: vibrant hall tank your base is 170 right? whats your target bonus % each yr? what percentages have you actually received? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26077703) |
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Date: August 6th, 2014 11:55 PM Author: talented sound barrier yes, $170. i receive an annual bonus so i don't see any extra money until then.
they told me bonus is typically it's 50-75% but last year was an exceptional year for the market, hence 100% bonuses.
this year is an exceptional year in that AUM has skyrocketed b/c everybody's dumping their money into equities, but the market itself is not doing so great. |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 12:33 PM Author: vibrant hall tank So you are expecting another 100% bonus year? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26080512) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 2:59 PM Author: talented sound barrier dont want to have expectations for it but if we're going according to revenue, it should be over that. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26081369) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 4:44 PM Author: Disturbing underhanded twinkling uncleanness Nice. What are your hours like? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26081965) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 7:35 PM Author: talented sound barrier 9-6, no weekends. i truly cannot complain about anything. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26082989) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 6:21 PM Author: Chestnut milk nutella or anyone else: any further insight on BD/FCM compliance bonuses? Obviously lower than RIAs, but I'm definitely curious. This thread has given a potential range so far of about 10% - 50%. |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 6:39 PM Author: vibrant hall tank excluding legal? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26082642) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 6:42 PM Author: Chestnut milk At this point, any information is better than none. So if you know of any BD/FCM legal bonuses feel free to throw those in too. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26082666) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 8:40 PM Author: vibrant hall tank 100%+ is not unheard of for legal counsel. It's really quite crazy. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26083291) |
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Date: August 8th, 2014 8:00 PM Author: vibrant hall tank (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26089440) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 7:38 PM Author: Obsidian Soul-stirring Quadroon Weed Whacker sounds like it's a good deal for you, but fuck dude, compliance is so fucking awful. unless you're just a hardcore asian white collar worker bee robot like nutella and seriously don't fucking care how you spend your time so long as you're getting that money, then it's a rough road. pushing paper doesn't even begin to describe it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#26083003) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 10:45 AM Author: passionate bawdyhouse cuckold (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2632164&forum_id=2#40540589) |