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1/3 of the biglawyers leaving my firm have burned out of law
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Date: August 7th, 2014 2:20 AM Author: wine comical pocket flask Common or is my firm a sweatshop? I think around 1/3 have left law completely and a lot don't have any job when they leave. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26078574) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 2:22 AM Author: vivacious vermilion boiling water super common IME. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26078585) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 3:46 AM Author: Unhinged Glittery Garrison (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26078871) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 8:32 AM Author: twisted weed whacker laser beams Importantly for you: those who left without a job didn't leave because they burned out. They got dat talk. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26079394) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 9:57 AM Author: Salmon Abode Azn what are they doing if they left law completely? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26079675) |
Date: August 7th, 2014 2:24 AM Author: talented reading party Much, MUCH more common than rising 3Ls with an offer want to believe. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26078599) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 2:25 AM Author: wine comical pocket flask WTF do people keep going to law school? It is so insanely expensive now that it's not worth it, period. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26078605) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 2:25 AM Author: talented reading party because there is a major disconnect between those in pre-law, those in law school, those who practice, and those who succeed in practice, and of course b/c poli sci shit heads gonna shit head
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Date: August 7th, 2014 3:46 AM Author: Unhinged Glittery Garrison (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26078868) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 2:52 AM Author: Passionate ebony candlestick maker parlour Yeah, but I do not think it's as dramatic as you are making it. These people are still smart and find jobs making 60-70k working jobs befitting of a human being. These people usually do not become rich, but its not like I've seen a former associate move in with parents or beg for change outside the building. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26078703) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 2:52 AM Author: ivory toilet seat "and find jobs making 60-70k working jobs befitting of a human being."
There's no such thing.
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Date: August 7th, 2014 2:55 AM Author: Passionate ebony candlestick maker parlour Don't understand why every biglawyer has this thought that when you leave you just go to the streets and die of starvation. There is a middle ground. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26078711) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 2:59 AM Author: ivory toilet seat Not one that includes retirement. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26078718) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 3:47 AM Author: Unhinged Glittery Garrison I've seen one move in with parents (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26078877) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 9:49 AM Author: adventurous whorehouse expound. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26079625) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 3:05 AM Author: overrated laughsome sanctuary I saw lots do this; most popped back up in law a year or two later, some at biglaw firms, even if they sat on their ass for two years "chasing their dream." (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26078735) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 3:08 AM Author: Soul-stirring theater Standard. But 'burned out' means different things for different people. For some it means career downshift but come back to law, for others it means wouldn't have been able to handle rural county prosecutor work and should have been an accountant, for others it means partners in their group were 2 mean and they would have been OK in another biglaw office. The way it eats away at people is not uniform except for the broad strokes of shitty people and boring work. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26078744) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 12:49 PM Author: irate school cafeteria genital piercing Good, verified scholarship (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26080596) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 3:38 AM Author: talented reading party NO ONE can "leave law" for 2 years anymore or even 6 months and then return to law. PERIOD. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26078838) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 3:39 AM Author: Soul-stirring theater It happens all the time. Especially for women. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26078841) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 3:42 AM Author: talented reading party Sure, women who use maternity leave. But no white male 3rd year leaves and then goes for 20 months without legal work and gets back into anything but maybe shitlaw (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26078853) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 3:48 AM Author: Unhinged Glittery Garrison (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26078881) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 7:41 AM Author: appetizing chapel psychic I've actually seen this a few times, but no one who did it "down-shifted" and just checked out. 5 guys who've left to start funds, buy up minerals or do banking have been welcomed back because they basically stay in industry. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26079302) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 7:55 AM Author: Rose shaky rehab ceo Bigger issue is as a third year you still dont know shit. A 5th year can spin a 2 year hiatus as "I tried going solo" or "we started a startup" and has enough experience people wont care. A third year is still a baby lawyer. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26079318) |
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Date: August 10th, 2014 3:13 PM Author: Disgusting ultramarine kitty cat Lolz y not (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26099834) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 7:51 AM Author: Rose shaky rehab ceo Really hard to work 50+ hour weeks for more than 2-3 years and not want to killself especially when you are making 160k+ and seeing more than 2/3 of it get eaten by taxes + student loans + NYC rent and realizing you are saving maybe 40k a year and are basically perma-fucked. You take only 1 week of actual vacation a year. You never see the sun. You know you will never make partner. You know you will never get laid with this kind of schedule (good luck with the relationship thing when the only thing you want to do on Friday night is sleep through to Sunday). You cant afford kids in this city and your future is commuting from NJ. Its obscenely depressing so no shit lots of people leave to do ANYTHING else. Even BIGTACOTRUCK starts to make more sense than biglaw after the student loans are gone. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26079312) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 7:58 AM Author: domesticated razzle-dazzle stead prole 50-55 and sometimes 60 hour weeks is a relatively calm midlaw or boutique practice, not your classic biglaw grind (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26079331) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 8:19 AM Author: thriller unholy messiness brunch You mean worked, not billed, right? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26079374) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 8:02 AM Author: appetizing chapel psychic You're not a terrible narrative writer. I hope you find some opportunities on the board to write about despondency, survival and fatalism other than regarding biglaw or Russian military campaigns. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26079343) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 10:01 AM Author: Beta Round Eye Meetinghouse (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26079692) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 7:59 AM Author: aphrodisiac doctorate how many of these dudes actually just got shitcanned? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26079333) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 7:59 AM Author: provocative bossy affirmative action parlor It is likely closer to half who leave law altogether IME. BIGLAW is pure shit and a double evil in that it sucks to work there and you don't even learn anything usually to transfer into any other field or start your own firm.
MANY people just burn out, hate the shit, and leave law altogether. I can think of dozens of ppl who have done this. |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 8:07 AM Author: appetizing chapel psychic I think a lot of people decide to leave the service industry generally after biglaw. Biglaw and to a similar extent banking represent what must be the apex of intelligent humanity's willingness to COMPLETELY devote one's time to someone else's problems. No other professions have practices or cultures that require you to drop everything in your life, including your family and own well-being, at a moment's notice to please a customer. The sickening fact is that this is only point on which firms can really compete now, so without collusion it won't change. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26079349) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 8:02 AM Author: exhilarant bright principal's office it always amuses me how XO refers to leaving the practice of law as a bad thing (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26079342) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 8:03 AM Author: tripping scarlet twinkling uncleanness legal warrant it is bad when you consider you invested 3 years and $$$ and 1/3 of your 20s (for most). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26079344) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 8:04 AM Author: exhilarant bright principal's office bro that's called the Sunk Cost Fallacy (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26079345) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 8:06 AM Author: tripping scarlet twinkling uncleanness legal warrant Sunk Cost Fallacy justifies leaving law at that point. It doesn't retroactively justify going to law school. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26079347) |
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Date: August 10th, 2014 1:52 PM Author: fiercely-loyal old irish cottage so you doing something you hate makes it a good decision?
the issue isn't leaving the firm...that is the first good decision these bums make |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 8:13 AM Author: thriller unholy messiness brunch I'm a second year and I already can't wait for that day. The thought of doing this for 40 years is terrible. Being a solo after paying off debt and saving some money might be credited, though. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26079367) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 9:47 AM Author: sinister mind-boggling haunted graveyard sneaky criminal (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26079618) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 9:51 AM Author: underhanded cuckoldry Nah. Maybe this is true of 1-2 year associates. After 3 years you're probably still employable but may decide not to be a lawyer. By year five you're kind of committed. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26079633) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 10:09 AM Author: titillating roast beef point Way too many people go to law school for the wrong reasons, and it's too easy to do that.
Compare the % of lawyers 10 years out who aren't in law, and then do the same for doctors. Now, granted, a law degree is a bit more versatile and you can transition to the business side, but still, to become a doctor you have to be really fucking committed by the time you get to medical school. Law? Not so much. |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 10:21 AM Author: Salmon Abode Azn what are those that leave law completely doing? Salary? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26079773) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 10:27 AM Author: underhanded cuckoldry I know a dude in tax consulting for like $60k. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26079812) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 10:29 AM Author: Salmon Abode Azn t14? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26079827) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 10:30 AM Author: underhanded cuckoldry Yep. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26079834) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 10:32 AM Author: Salmon Abode Azn jesus (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26079844) |
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Date: August 10th, 2014 5:16 AM Author: Pink Slimy Locale Mental Disorder The accounting side of tax often pays surprisingly poorly. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26098066) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 10:33 AM Author: puce resort you can do more with a medical degree than law -- at least there are more open doors out there (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26079852) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 10:34 AM Author: Salmon Abode Azn jesus christ guys. LS is my only other option besides working at an NGO in DC (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26079860) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 10:46 AM Author: underhanded cuckoldry Uh, go work at an NGO in DC. Do an evening biz school and get an MBA.
NGO jobs get to six figures once you're in leadership.
The structure of most NGOs is one executive making $200kish, a few senior people at $125k and then tons of people at $24k-38k.
If you're smart enough for a good law school you're smart enough to run an NGO. If you don't like fundraising this is a bad career path, but what most people forget is that you are not average compared to the real world. You're only average compared to your peer group, which is definitionally well above average.
You will be in the top 90 percent of NGO drones and by age 40 you will be established with a steady career. I went to law school and I will have a net worth of zero dollars early next year when I am a 7th year. |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 10:49 AM Author: tripping scarlet twinkling uncleanness legal warrant how much did you borrow? you sound spendthrift. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26079959) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 1:09 PM Author: underhanded cuckoldry $1 million (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26080686) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 11:46 AM Author: Salmon Abode Azn LOL at biz schools in DC (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26080296) |
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Date: August 7th, 2014 10:30 AM Author: histrionic senate Lawyer I know just retired after 60 years of practice. I hope I can reach at least 50 years of practice. Not biglaw. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26079836) |
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Date: August 8th, 2014 7:10 PM Author: cobalt heaven dopamine Don't know of anyone who has "flamed out" of my group. Some have left because the hours are bad, but they all got raises and are generally working in the same area. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26089200) |
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Date: August 10th, 2014 5:14 AM Author: Salmon Abode Azn Vault range? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26098055) |
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Date: August 10th, 2014 9:06 PM Author: cobalt heaven dopamine V5 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26101519) |
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Date: August 10th, 2014 5:18 AM Author: Pink Slimy Locale Mental Disorder At my old firm the most famous flame out was a transactional senior associate who disappeared mid-deal with no word or warning. One of the partners later got an email from him from Spain in which he said he had had enough and wasn't coming back. He never did. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26098077) |
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Date: August 10th, 2014 11:00 AM Author: cerebral henna kitchen internal respiration haha (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26098596) |
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Date: August 10th, 2014 1:54 PM Author: fiercely-loyal old irish cottage credited haha (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26099429) |
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Date: November 23rd, 2014 3:00 PM Author: Federal fragrant queen of the night (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26778465) |
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Date: August 10th, 2014 5:24 AM Author: Tan Half-breed Background Story not uncommon. some come back, others drift (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26098105) |
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Date: August 10th, 2014 5:34 AM Author: Salmon Abode Azn are drifters fucked? or did they just have enough with the work environment and find other OK jobs/ (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26098154) |
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Date: August 10th, 2014 5:36 AM Author: Tan Half-breed Background Story the ones i know are happy to be doing not much years later. this includes a couple hausfraus tho (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26098155) |
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Date: August 10th, 2014 5:49 AM Author: Salmon Abode Azn Are these dudes permafucked? Have a hard time that ex big law bros can't get a good job in midlaw/corporate/gov etc. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26098177) |
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Date: August 10th, 2014 6:42 AM Author: Tan Half-breed Background Story i guess they might be "permafucked" in the sense that maybe now the resume gaps are too big to overcome. otherwise they'd probably do ok if goal was to end up in midlaw or fed gov or maybe inhouse or whatevs. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26098229) |
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Date: August 10th, 2014 7:11 AM Author: Salmon Abode Azn does the average biglaw bro have trouble getting midlaw/gov/inhouse? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26098269) |
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Date: August 10th, 2014 7:22 AM Author: Tan Half-breed Background Story midlaw? no. government and in-house require more time, planning and networking generally (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26098276) |
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Date: August 10th, 2014 8:03 AM Author: Salmon Abode Azn what do you think about this?
http://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2634767&mc=40&forum_id=2#26093847 |
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Date: August 10th, 2014 1:57 PM Author: Tan Half-breed Background Story you're coming into family money but will have debt? there's absolutely no good reason for you to waste at least several years of your life on ls and biglaw (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26099444) |
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Date: August 10th, 2014 2:28 PM Author: Salmon Abode Azn My other career options look pretty bleak at this point that's the main reason I'm considering LS. Basically Ill be luck to land a 35k policy job in dc. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26099618) |
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Date: August 10th, 2014 2:33 PM Author: Tan Half-breed Background Story don't be a tryhard and stay away from biglaw and maybe you'll be ok i guess. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26099642) |
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Date: August 10th, 2014 3:10 PM Author: fiercely-loyal old irish cottage much better option. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2638423&forum_id=2#26099813) |