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7th year assoc. bail now or stick it out?
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Date: August 17th, 2014 9:22 PM Author: sienna native Would you jump ship as a 7th year to go in-house for $120k? Let's say you have no idea where you stand; they could offer you partnership--or they could show you the door. Bail? |
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Date: August 17th, 2014 9:25 PM Author: maroon sexy tank that's a shitty in-house salary for a 7th year. is there a bonus? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2648400&forum_id=2#26149506) |
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Date: August 17th, 2014 9:25 PM Author: sepia exhilarant area Do you have the offer in hand or are you considering applying? If you have the offer then I would talk to some partners you are close with. Tell them you have an offer elsewhere. If you have a good relationship then they will give you an honest answer. If you don't have a few partners that you are close to then definitely take the job as you won't be making partner.
That said, $120k is the best you can do as a 7th year? |
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Date: August 17th, 2014 9:52 PM Author: sienna native 120k is a big drop, but this is a solid offer. Unfortunately it's not negotiable; it's a small--but solid--company. I don't think the partners really care one way or the other, to be honest. They're more worried about themselves. How much is reasonable for a 7th year? |
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Date: August 18th, 2014 11:48 AM Author: comical fortuitous meteor lodge Will 120k support your lifestyle? If so, and you get a great vibe from the company, go for it. The type of company you described can offer some great long term opportunities - you could be a superstar there and make a big impact in a short amount of time. You may also be able to get involved in the business side much more than you would at a larger company, which can make practicing in house much more enjoyable. Small but solid companies can be great to work as an in house lawyer. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2648400&forum_id=2#26153303) |
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Date: August 18th, 2014 12:46 PM Author: Lake stage of course 120k will support his lifestyle (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2648400&forum_id=2#26153618) |
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Date: August 18th, 2014 1:46 PM Author: comical fortuitous meteor lodge Why is that a given? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2648400&forum_id=2#26154103) |
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Date: August 19th, 2014 1:23 AM Author: arousing house idiot > "I don't think the partners really care one way or the other, to be honest. They're more worried about themselves."
This statement alone makes it clear you won't make partner. Find a better offer (or negotiate a better salary for the offer you have) and move now. |
Date: August 17th, 2014 9:24 PM Author: Maize Range Laser Beams eject! eject! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2648400&forum_id=2#26149503) |
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Date: August 17th, 2014 9:58 PM Author: Amethyst address quadroon ^ TCR for sure!
This is like the classic Monty Hall problem. And you should BAIL |
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Date: August 18th, 2014 11:56 AM Author: harsh glassy rigpig base How could you have NO idea about partnership? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2648400&forum_id=2#26153330) |
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Date: August 18th, 2014 11:58 AM Author: Beady-eyed Hunting Ground Faggot Firefighter Yeah, if you have no idea about partnership by year 7 that means you're not in the running. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2648400&forum_id=2#26153351) |
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Date: August 18th, 2014 12:19 PM Author: Floppy clear hall boltzmann (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2648400&forum_id=2#26153478) |
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Date: August 19th, 2014 9:22 AM Author: Overrated spot Sad but true (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2648400&forum_id=2#26160037) |
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Date: August 19th, 2014 11:35 AM Author: comical fortuitous meteor lodge I would agree with this in most cases, but one biglaw firm that I worked at operated this way. It was a black box. Associates had no idea whether they were up for partner or in the running to make partner until right before the process began. Some associates stuck around until 9th year and were put up for partner then. Basically, if an associate didn't push the issue, firm management said little to nothing (even superstar associates were treated this way). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2648400&forum_id=2#26160649) |
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Date: August 18th, 2014 12:04 PM Author: Misanthropic multi-billionaire office Would you actually want to be partner?
Salary seems low but not objectively bad particularly if offers good lifestyle and upside. Plus can leverage this to find a better in house job in a few years, whereas Biglaw is a dead-end job if you don't want/won't be made partner. |
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Date: August 18th, 2014 12:14 PM Author: white field Get out, you're not going to make partner, but you should be able to do better than $120k. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2648400&forum_id=2#26153445) |
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Date: August 18th, 2014 12:21 PM Author: dark regret (bro about to get fired or made partner regardless of his actions) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2648400&forum_id=2#26153492) |
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Date: August 18th, 2014 12:22 PM Author: soul-stirring temple stain $120k has to represent damn near a 50% paycut on base salary, if not more than 50%, for a BIGLAW 7th yr associate. I think you could do better. Why is the company offering so little?
As for whether you should take it, your family circumstance has to factor in. I'm a 7th year as well and, with 3 kids and a SAHM for a wife, I couldn't afford this kind of pay cut. |
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Date: August 18th, 2014 12:23 PM Author: Flatulent mood I'd take like $170K. $120K is kinda weak. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2648400&forum_id=2#26153506) |
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Date: August 18th, 2014 12:45 PM Author: big corner Are you lit or transactional? If lit, there is a good chance this is the best you can do, but that's assuming you are not a smooth talking Asian shrew with a magnetic personality who can sweet talk her way into an in-house gig with no relevant work experience. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2648400&forum_id=2#26153609) |
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Date: August 19th, 2014 1:53 AM Author: Stirring Nofapping Dopamine (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2648400&forum_id=2#26159020) |
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Date: August 18th, 2014 12:46 PM Author: honey-headed electric point doctorate Yeah, man. If you think <><><>nobreakfast<><><> then grab the best life raft you can. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2648400&forum_id=2#26153612) |
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Date: August 18th, 2014 12:50 PM Author: Garnet useless brakes brunch (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2648400&forum_id=2#26153647) |
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Date: August 18th, 2014 12:46 PM Author: Chrome business firm newt That seems like a SPS offer. That's what some CPA would get for an in-house gig 7 years out of UG. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2648400&forum_id=2#26153622) |
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Date: August 18th, 2014 1:08 PM Author: Red supple scourge upon the earth indian lodge hard to reject $120k outright (i don't know why people think that's so low...lots of senior associates desperately trying to get $125k in-house entertainment studio jobs here in LA). it really depends if you're at risk of a layoff in the next year, your financial situation (mortgage? dual income family? etc), what other options you have (if any), lifestyle at the in-house job, and career mobility at the new job. |
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Date: August 19th, 2014 1:26 AM Author: Bull Headed Cruise Ship Party Of The First Part Imari needs a forever home :(
http://lhasahappyhomes.org/HLM_Custom_DogsDetails.aspx?ID=c82bd495-7216-4994-9c24-89cb152f1455 |
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Date: August 24th, 2014 11:00 AM Author: Appetizing Sanctuary Private Investor i've been applying in house and believe that average base for a 7th year in a major city like NYC, Chicago, Philly, Boston, SF or LA would be around $175k with average bonus of 20%.
but i've seen like $140k jobs as well as $225k jobs.
and bonuses from 15-30%.
most of the lower paying jobs are in media, entertainment or startups. most of the high paying jobs are in finance, pharma, or F100 type public companies. |
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Date: August 19th, 2014 9:21 AM Author: sienna native I'm seriously considering the offer since 120k is doable. The net is approximately what I need to live off of. I have 0 loans and 600k in savings. No kids, wife works. The thought that they are low-balling me is really eating me up. I haven't committed to this job yet but I am already resentful. The person who had the spot before me was making 165k before he left; I was told that there's no room in the budget to start me off higher (I asked for 140k. 140 would allow me to max out my 401k and still be where I need to be physiologically in terms of income) Another thing that's been running through my mind is prestige. I do like the prestige my current firm provides. If they do let me go, I'm sure I'll still have 2-4 years before that happens. But, I also know a number of of counsels with 10+ years of lit experience who are having a difficult time getting placed post biglaw. These are people who would settle for anything paying 100k plus at this point. One dude I know finally took a city job for ~120k after 18 months of unemployment! These are all T14s, sociable, well dressed, etc... So I don't know what gives. |
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Date: August 19th, 2014 9:24 AM Author: Overrated spot $120K does seem pretty low. I understand your point about 10th years but you're only a 7th year. You've got time to look around for a better offer. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2648400&forum_id=2#26160043) |
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Date: August 19th, 2014 9:29 AM Author: harsh glassy rigpig base I know multiple senior lit people having the exact problem you described. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2648400&forum_id=2#26160060) |
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Date: August 19th, 2014 10:12 AM Author: Talented Heaven Clown Prestige? Lol. With other big lawyers maybe, but that's bizzaro world.
Average Joe probably thinks "corporate lawyer at xyz company" is more prestigious than "associate at xyz vault 83 firm" |
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Date: August 19th, 2014 10:51 AM Author: Beady-eyed Hunting Ground Faggot Firefighter Yeah, you're not a junior associate anymore so who are you trying to impress with prestige? Laypeople couldn't care less what firm you work for, and other lawyers of your age are going to wonder why you're even in biglaw still. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2648400&forum_id=2#26160363) |
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Date: August 19th, 2014 10:24 AM Author: cracking ticket booth ratface I had many of these same concerns, and almost took an inhouse job I didn't really want just because I wanted out of my firm.
Eventually I turned down the inhouse offer (for around 180k) and later found another much better offer.
I wasn't a shitigator, so take that into account, but I'm not so convinced that you'll never ever find another inhouse opportunity.
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Date: August 28th, 2014 3:56 PM Author: poppy juggernaut This / u have time (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2648400&forum_id=2#26225337) |
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Date: August 19th, 2014 9:34 AM Author: twinkling hairless kitchen deer antler Does your firm have non-equity partners? If so, and if you haven't gotten the vibe to start looking for a way out, partner is still on the table.
If your firm only has equity partners, do you have an equivalent of non-equity partner, like counsel or something? If so, that may still be on the table.
I wouldn't jump thinking that as a 7th year your only options are fired or equity partner. Lots of firms have something in between and will allow you stick around. That said, if you like the in house opportunity, then go for it. And if they have ever said anything to you about have you considered what you'd like to do next, definitely take it. |