Libs want later start times at school
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Poast new message in this thread
Date: August 25th, 2014 8:53 AM Author: frum cruise ship
should have been done decades ago.
also need to abolish summer vacation and replace it with shorter vacations broken up throughout the year.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2655884&forum_id=2#26201641) |
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Date: August 25th, 2014 9:18 AM Author: frum cruise ship
I provided an article that cites research suggesting it does have a substantive effect on some children's development.
Can you please support your argument with a little more than the bare statement you provided above?
TYIA.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2655884&forum_id=2#26201708) |
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Date: August 25th, 2014 9:30 AM Author: Floppy Native
Well, to start with, they talk about the shorter school year and how that leads to one less year of schooling in the aggregate, but they don't talk about the university and graduate school years after high school, which is where I suspect Americans make up some ground.
Then they talk about the number of hours in school per week, but do they count after-school activities in that calculation? Especially for middle and high school kids, those can be significant, and they can take the form of activities where kids are learning skills, even if they aren't strictly hard academic skills, such as the newspaper, the science club, the orchestra, etc.
Then they get to their real point, which is that we put ALL of our kids into structured learning environments, ultimately leading to problems. Do the foreign countries against which they're measuring us do the same thing, or do they begin to weed kids out of academic school and into alternative learning programs?
They talk about summer learning loss, but then acknowledge that it's really the poorer and less bright kids who suffer learning loss, whereas the richer and brighter kids EXCEL by doing independent learning and building skills over the summer. "American academics have even invented a term for this phenomenon, “summer learning loss”. This pedagogical understretch is exacerbating social inequalities. Poorer children frequently have no one to look after them in the long hours between the end of the school day and the end of the average working day. They are also particularly prone to learning loss. They fall behind by an average of over two months in their reading. Richer children actually improve their performance." Forgive me if I'm a little skeptical at overhauling the entire educational system's structure to try to help the poorest and dumbest kids. I don't think it will necessarily work, and even if it works a bit, are the marginal gains worth the marginal costs, particularly if some of the costs are at the expense of the benefits of the summer vacation to the top 25% kids?
The one nice thing about a longer summer vacation is that it actually gives kids the chance to pursue something interesting outside of school, or to work a job, which itself provides valuable lessons. Neither of which is really possible during a two-week break.
I'm not saying that the idea has NO merit, just that there are definitely arguments the other way as well.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2655884&forum_id=2#26201767) |
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Date: August 25th, 2014 3:31 PM Author: Fantasy-prone New Version Box Office
"rich people are adaptable and will figure out a way to come out ahead if the system changes by deploying their resources effectively."
This may be true while it is also true that rich kids will graduate from HS worse off in absolute sense.
Also, I don't understand why you are so optimistic that the same positive results can be realized for children of resourceful families from multiple brakes that they currently obtain from the current summer vacation arrangement.
Last, labeling a group "fucktarded" for not enthusiastically going along with a change to a fundamental aspect of society that benefits another group at their expense is beyond ridiculous.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2655884&forum_id=2#26203588) |
Date: August 25th, 2014 8:55 AM Author: Cruel-hearted heady locale preventive strike
Not going to click some time.com article, but I presume they address the big obstacle to this: HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL PRACTICE.
This is, in essence, another feminist grab. Instead of boys having the hours of 2PM-5PM to be outside, running, learning about leadership, using their muscles, learning about the fruits of hard work, boys can instead be sitting in American History class at 4:30PM, as the sun starts to go down, and the shrew teacher continues her lesson about Abraham Lincoln's gay lover.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2655884&forum_id=2#26201647) |
Date: August 25th, 2014 9:06 AM Author: Cruel-hearted heady locale preventive strike
Troof is American school is broke because it is way too big, mostly thanks to shitlibs.
In the same way we all now know that 3 years of law school and a bar exam are useless preparation for practicing most forms of law, a high school diploma (and god forbid a bachelor of arts) are pretty useless to most people's lives.
If we could really let local government manage this stuff we could have bad-ass schools that taught young people in ways that were appropriate. Get boys fixing things and working with their hands or coding. Get girls trained in managing retail or basic medical care. Language immersion for months. Apprentice programs. Work/study. Tracking based on IQ. Etc.
Some 16 year old boys might need 9 months of "summer vacation" in which he learns to build a transmission and some AZN math kid might need 12 straight months of math study.
Instead we have public high schools.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2655884&forum_id=2#26201671) |
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Date: August 25th, 2014 11:33 AM Author: very tactful onyx space
actually this is a good point.
if this were a CIVILIZED, WHITE country like france or japan, flowing a unified national culture thru the school system wouldn't be a problem
unfortunately most of ARE COUNTRY is basically shithole texas
lets hope the kids pick up BETTER, CIVILIZED culture dicking around online during summer break
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2655884&forum_id=2#26202234) |
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Date: August 25th, 2014 11:50 AM Author: Hyperactive heaven coffee pot
I had not thought about it in those terms.
A good point.
I will invest lots of time and money each summer with my kids on math, science, sports, summer camps. So yes: net is a huge advantage to my kids vs. kids who just run around wild for 3 months
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2655884&forum_id=2#26202318) |
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Date: August 25th, 2014 1:13 PM Author: Hyperactive heaven coffee pot
Well... But I can do that during the school year as well, no?
I was certainly kept busy as fuck by my parents during the school year
I think your other point around parents who invest in summer activities giving an advantage to their kids is much stronger.
It's not about the specialness of summer to do "big, complex projects" it's about the advantage I give my kids by filling their time productively... And I agree with you that I will be better at that than public schools
Here's the thing though: vast majority of parents are not good at that either due to time or resource constraints.
Therefore, seems like many would benefit from such a change to the school year.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2655884&forum_id=2#26202742)
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Date: August 25th, 2014 2:55 PM Author: Khaki swashbuckling halford
It's ludicrous how early kids have to wake up for school.
I recall having to rise at 5:30 AM every morning just to be able to catch the bus.
It's awful. A multitude of studies show that teenagers on the whole are on a later natural clock than adults and also require more sleep than adults.
And plenty of people, like me, are night owls by nature -- studies show that people with a genetic variant don't reach their peak mental activity until 9 pm, which is when many teenagers would have to go to bed to get 8.5 hours of sleep.
It never ceases to amaze me how morning people fail to understand how lucky they are that the world is made for them and that not everyone is like them. Then again, I find morning people to be far more rigid and uncreative than night people.
On the other issue -- school absolutely sucks. Do people really forget how awful it is? Today, my Facebook was filled with pics of kids going to their first day of school, and it still makes me sick to my stomach. Let kids (and teachers) keep their summer vacations. And enough catering to the lowest common denominator. Cater to the smart kids who this country is going to rely on.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2655884&forum_id=2#26203368) |
Date: August 25th, 2014 4:22 PM Author: Stirring stage depressive
I've been hearing about this for at least 20 years.
It never happens.
Public school is largely about babysitting. Early start times are the best at broadly serving the babysitting function. They are also nice for teachers who like to get home relatively early in the day.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2655884&forum_id=2#26203847) |
Date: August 31st, 2014 1:54 PM Author: galvanic clown
Who the fuck is opposed to this? The only group I can think of would be teacher's unions, which are undeniably shitlib.
I think I can speak with a pretty unblemished record of opposing shitlibbery in all its forms, and I enthusiastically support this idea.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2655884&forum_id=2#26241971) |
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Date: August 31st, 2014 3:35 PM Author: Startled red bawdyhouse
simpleton
work schedules of the parents may need to be changed, what if they can't be?
you think busing is inexpensive? please
income from after school jobs goes down. how is it made up?
kids lose daylight at the end of the day, especially in the winter. less time outside, more fats
if this really is a problem, it has a fix, make kids go to bed earlier. i doubt there really is a problem that different school times will fix, however.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2655884&forum_id=2#26242467) |
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Date: August 31st, 2014 4:46 PM Author: Startled red bawdyhouse
ah, delivering papers isn't an intense workout
i suppose doing chores would be an intense workout for most of the xoxo crowd
what do sports teams do during their seasons? often have 2 a day practices...one before school, one after. they should be too tired and fat to do this, but they do.
just like everyone else in the world, people feel better when they get more sleep, but sleep deprivation is almost always a self-imposed thing that can be fixed whenever the person wants or needs to fix it
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2655884&forum_id=2#26242768) |
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Date: August 31st, 2014 4:08 PM Author: Naked Party Of The First Part
you can't just wave a magic wand and make kids go to bed earlier, system-wide. going to bed earlier might be what YOU would do if you were in this position, and it'd be a good idea, but it's an individual action -- it isn't a policy. the point of policy is to change the parameters these guys face in a beneficial way to create a better system, rather than just thinking about the best strategy for working within the CURRENT system. from that point of view, it's obvious how much more effective later start times would be in reducing sleep deprivation -- you're just never going to duplicate that by trying to propagandize kids to go to bed earlier. if you believe in the harm sleep deprivation causes (and you should), it's a no-brainer that this solution justifies the costs. if on the other hand you believe that going to bed earlier is somehow more virtuous, then, of course, your solution is the preferable one.
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(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2655884&forum_id=2#26242620) |
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Date: August 31st, 2014 4:36 PM Author: Startled red bawdyhouse
i'm not looking at the studies, but it's not hard to believe that teenagers, along with everyone else in the world, get more sleep when they don't have to get up.
teenagers on vacation, sleep in, feel better
teenagers on summer break, sleep in, feel better
teenagers on weekends, sleep in, feel better
teenagers with school start times 30 minutes later?
teenagers with school start times 90 minutes later?
i don't doubt that there is a time where kids are not going to go to sleep earlier, say before primetime tv is over, but there is also a time where kids have to be getting out the door, and that's when their parents leave for work. trying to make primetime tv end earlier makes more sense than fucking with school start times. it's equally impractical and won't happen, but at least it doesn't cost people directly
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2655884&forum_id=2#26242722) |
Date: August 31st, 2014 4:34 PM Author: swollen idea he suggested
saw this on Dr Gupta yesterday and couldn't agree more
wish I could have started school later in morning instead of just not showing up
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2655884&forum_id=2#26242712) |
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