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Volokh PWNS feminists on Ray Rice situation

Sixteen female Senators have called on the NFL to impose a “...
contagious church building
  09/12/14
stopped reading at "and — if I were a football fan —&qu...
Aromatic stage main people
  09/12/14
Categorically?
Confused opaque temple degenerate
  09/12/14
Why would he choose to place emphasis on the fact that he is...
Electric crimson meetinghouse
  09/12/14
because feminists would otherwise rip his opinion as that of...
territorial cuckold son of senegal
  09/12/14
why would he point out that he has no dog in the fight?
Silver dysfunction
  09/12/14
Seems like most football fans are for banning Ray Rice from ...
Electric crimson meetinghouse
  09/12/14
Can't hurt to point out that you aren't tangling with that c...
Silver dysfunction
  09/12/14
...
multi-colored dull location
  09/13/14
Nothing could kill his street cred among academics more than...
alcoholic property regret
  09/13/14
stopped reading there as well, because it's getting annoying...
twinkling deep cruise ship
  09/13/14
lol @ the idea that women are as rational as he imagines the...
Unhinged becky ticket booth
  09/12/14
ran here to poast this. i don't think Volokh understands how...
Electric crimson meetinghouse
  09/12/14
Seriously though, who wouldn't take a couple of asswhoopings...
Comical puce library generalized bond
  09/13/14
this is NOT okay---- a beaten woman (a black woman that is) ...
curious swollen queen of the night old irish cottage
  09/13/14


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Date: September 12th, 2014 4:50 PM
Author: contagious church building

Sixteen female Senators have called on the NFL to impose a “zero tolerance” policy for domestic violence by players. “If you violently assault a woman, you shouldn’t get a second chance to play football in the NFL.”

I sympathize with the sentiment behind the letter, and — if I were a football fan — I would find it hard to feel any connection as a fan with a player who I knew was guilty of violent assault; it might make good business sense for the NFL to fire such players.

But where would it put football players’ wives who are being beaten? If they call the police, and the player is prosecuted, that doesn’t just mean the end of the player’s career; it likely means a loss of millions of dollars to the wife as well as to the husband. They call the police, and their husband is out of a job, they can’t pay their mortgage, and they and their children are potentially headed for poverty.

And of course the women may still love their abusive husbands, and be willing to expose them to a well-deserved prosecution and even public shame, yet not to the loss of the career that their husbands care deeply about. But even if they understandably no longer care about their husband’s happiness, and plan to get a divorce after calling the police, the husband’s job loss would mean that he’s unable to pay child support, keep them and the children in the family home, and so on.

Of course, some women may choose that financial loss over continued abuse, and I respect them for it. But some women may not be willing to make that trade-off, and they thus won’t call the police. Indeed, they won’t tell anyone, for fear that it will leak out.

They may be especially unwilling to say anything when the abuse starts, and doesn’t yet seem to be chronic or extreme. By the time they do call the police (if they ever do), the abuse would have had to be something unendurably bad for them, bad enough to lead them to be willing to ruin their own financial lives as well as their husband’s. And that might be too late; indeed, as best I can tell, it’s better if women try to get police intervention early in the process of abuse rather than later. But will they do that if this early intervention is so costly for them?

Indeed, my understanding is that this is already one reason why some wives don’t report abuse by their husbands: If the husband is arrested and imprisoned, he’ll lose his job, and when that happens the family loses, too. But a zero-tolerance policy, under which the employer obligates itself to permanently fire the husband, and in a situation where the loss of income has such a dramatic financial effect, would only exacerbate the problem. This is an aspect of what I call the anticooperative effect of law: Sometimes measures to fight crime actually cause people to fear cooperating with law enforcement.

Now maybe on balance a zero-tolerance policy would still do more good than harm. The senators’ letter argues, for instance, that the policy would “send a strong message that the league will not tolerate violence against women by its players, who are role models for children across America.” If that’s right, then maybe (1) the deterrent effects plus (2) the norm-setting effects (the message sent to children across America) will on balance protect women more than the anticooperative effects will jeopardize them.

But on the other hand, the anticooperative effect will, at least in some measure, decrease the deterrent effect. “What’s she going to do,” a football player might think to himself, “call the police and lose all the income that she’s gotten used to?” And sometimes that player might be correct in this prediction. If you think this is so, and if you’re skeptical that children are going to be much influenced by this policy — or would be better influenced by hearing more frequent stories of significant criminal and professional penalties under a less punitive policy than by hearing of the zero-tolerance policy and its likely very rare enforcement — you might think that women will be more hurt than helped by exposing NFL wives to the prospect of financial ruin for calling the police.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/09/12/call-the-police-because-your-husband-is-beating-you-lose-millions-of-dollars/

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2672742&forum_id=2#26317081)



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Date: September 12th, 2014 5:01 PM
Author: Aromatic stage main people

stopped reading at "and — if I were a football fan —"

em dashes are NOT OKAY

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2672742&forum_id=2#26317129)



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Date: September 12th, 2014 5:19 PM
Author: Confused opaque temple degenerate

Categorically?



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2672742&forum_id=2#26317235)



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Date: September 12th, 2014 6:35 PM
Author: Electric crimson meetinghouse

Why would he choose to place emphasis on the fact that he isn't a football fan, something that has zero to do with his point?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2672742&forum_id=2#26317874)



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Date: September 12th, 2014 6:40 PM
Author: territorial cuckold son of senegal

because feminists would otherwise rip his opinion as that of a privileged white football fan

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2672742&forum_id=2#26317906)



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Date: September 12th, 2014 6:58 PM
Author: Silver dysfunction

why would he point out that he has no dog in the fight?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2672742&forum_id=2#26318025)



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Date: September 12th, 2014 7:42 PM
Author: Electric crimson meetinghouse

Seems like most football fans are for banning Ray Rice from the game

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2672742&forum_id=2#26318319)



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Date: September 12th, 2014 7:43 PM
Author: Silver dysfunction

Can't hurt to point out that you aren't tangling with that conflict of interests at all.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2672742&forum_id=2#26318329)



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Date: September 13th, 2014 9:17 AM
Author: multi-colored dull location



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2672742&forum_id=2#26320663)



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Date: September 13th, 2014 9:21 AM
Author: alcoholic property regret

Nothing could kill his street cred among academics more than outting himself as an NFL fan. Plus he works in LA.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2672742&forum_id=2#26320675)



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Date: September 13th, 2014 9:16 AM
Author: twinkling deep cruise ship

stopped reading there as well, because it's getting annoying that the people trying to get the most traction out of this issue don't actually care about sports/nfl/whatever. that's not relevant to their opinion on domestic violence, of course, but for most of these people their interest in that subject is casual at best as well.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2672742&forum_id=2#26320661)



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Date: September 12th, 2014 5:25 PM
Author: Unhinged becky ticket booth

lol @ the idea that women are as rational as he imagines them to be

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2672742&forum_id=2#26317289)



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Date: September 12th, 2014 6:36 PM
Author: Electric crimson meetinghouse

ran here to poast this. i don't think Volokh understands how the typical human being functions.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2672742&forum_id=2#26317883)



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Date: September 13th, 2014 8:43 AM
Author: Comical puce library generalized bond

Seriously though, who wouldn't take a couple of asswhoopings for a couple million bucks?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2672742&forum_id=2#26320616)



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Date: September 13th, 2014 8:54 AM
Author: curious swollen queen of the night old irish cottage

this is NOT okay---- a beaten woman (a black woman that is) has no say in this matter. We feminazi elitist white women DEMAND that the NFL behead any player found to have beaten any woman!! It does not matter what these negresses want. We, the 400 pound feminazi lesbian white women who are the maters of the female universe, DEMAND that the NFL behead these negroes at once because it is NOT okay to do otherwise and we will come after you Goodell and castrate your little 44 million dollar penis if you do not listen to us white women.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2672742&forum_id=2#26320631)