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Harvard Law Grads Burning Out of Biglaw
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Date: September 14th, 2014 1:05 PM Author: Garnet cerebral death wish shrine We had a couple of harvard law grads in the first year class and all of them have already quit biglaw for, at the moment, no jerb. Is it because they have more options or are they bigger pussies? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26326475) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 1:07 PM Author: Zombie-like Overrated Public Bath i read an article that said loyola U or something was the best school to make BIGLAW partner (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26326485) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 1:07 PM Author: Garnet cerebral death wish shrine so they are pussies? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26326489) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 6:14 PM Author: Canary trip potus principal's office if it's because the correlation with religion, then this may actually make sense. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26328186) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 6:32 PM Author: 180 Reading Party Piazza It's because you need to be a sociopathic grinder to get biglaw if you go to Loyola, a highly sought after quality biglaw wants in its partners. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26328261) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 5:15 PM Author: Sapphire Point Double Fault nobody has posted this yet? explains everything.
http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/do_elite_law_grads_disdain_longtime_biglaw_work_stats_suggest_lower-tier/ |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 9:44 PM Author: poppy provocative house cuckold Did this study account for reduction in hiring from non-elite schools? For example, let's say Loyola sent 50 grads to big firms 15 years ago, whereas it is now only sending 11 per year. If lots of Loyola grads are in the pipeline due to formerly generous hiring practices, it's only natural that some would be making partner. I realize these are just one school's alumni in one year, but it is very suspicious that they had 13 promoted to partner and only 11 hired as associates. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26329480) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 10:05 PM Author: Motley church building You're probably correct. If firms are making a lot less partners than they used to and there has been a drastic reduction in non-elite school hiring over time, then the associate to partner ratio for the elite schools would be lower. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26329606) |
Date: September 14th, 2014 1:08 PM Author: Garnet cerebral death wish shrine I've also noticed that Columbia kids do shitty work product at my firm
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Date: September 14th, 2014 5:03 PM Author: Flushed federal messiness crackhouse (MAF Fordham bro) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26327834) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 11:26 PM Author: histrionic ruddy idea he suggested antidepressant drug What firm (or Vault range)? I may know some of those kids. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26330302) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 1:08 PM Author: deep plaza circlehead further proof that MBA PWNS law school (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26326495) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 1:09 PM Author: Garnet cerebral death wish shrine Well the non harvard law grads are still here bro
just wondering why harvard grads burn out faster
and why columbia law grads do SHITTY WORK PRODUCT |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 1:10 PM Author: deep plaza circlehead the CLS students i've met are some of the worst human beings ever. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26326510) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 1:13 PM Author: Garnet cerebral death wish shrine elaborate
the ones i've met have been nice, but shitty work product doers |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 1:15 PM Author: deep plaza circlehead super strivers, obsessed with prestige and impressing people, openly making fun of lower ranked law schools
http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2667819&mc=11&forum_id=2 |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 1:21 PM Author: Garnet cerebral death wish shrine lawl they must be fugs. tbf, columbia grads seem to burn out at a high rate too out of biglaw. don't know why, but the ones i've met don't do well in biglaw
i admit, i've mocked non-t14 grads, but only in private with other friends and in the context of hating more senior associates who went to non-t14 schools
little do these CLS guys know that all that matters is $$$$$$$$$ and connections. so yeah unless they are independently wealthy or will be they are fucked |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 1:27 PM Author: deep plaza circlehead yeah i'm guilty of douchebaggery as well. so i have a class in a building that also has CLS classes, so i run into them all the time in the elevator and lobby. they wear their CLS backpacks. one time me and a buddy were in the elevator with like 5 CLS students, and i said out loud, "man i feel bad for law students. they look so miserable and you know grades actually matter there. and all we do is party and travel." the CLS students, needless to say, looked pissed. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26326613) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 1:49 PM Author: Razzmatazz international law enforcement agency tbf, grades don't matter much at CLS either unless you feel a need to work at the very top top firms. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26326723) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 2:36 PM Author: salmon comical goyim police squad (jjc) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26327040) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 4:50 PM Author: Magical field JJC NEEDS FUCKING HELP. THIS OBSESSION IS TOO MUCH. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26327784) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 3:53 PM Author: Flesh Vivacious Sex Offender Stag Film (guy who's literally never partied or traveled the entire time he's been at CBS) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26327497) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 11:28 PM Author: histrionic ruddy idea he suggested antidepressant drug CLS students wear CLS backpacks because we're given them at the start of 1L year for free. Also a tee shirt that says "CLS Rocks" or "I Love CLS" (I believe it varies from year to year). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26330325) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 1:27 PM Author: obsidian sticky crotch HYS types definitely don't last nearly as long in biglaw as people from lower ranked schools. I suspect there are quite a few reasons for this, including:
- too smart to be able to tolerate the mindless grinding - better and more diverse exit options - more likely to have family money - getting biglaw was easy, so it isn't viewed as an accomplishment that must be held onto |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 1:30 PM Author: Razzmatazz international law enforcement agency Main reason I believe is because HYS grads often feel like they have proven themselves by getting into HYS in the first place, so they don't feel a need to prove themselves in biglaw. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26326629) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 1:43 PM Author: obsidian sticky crotch There seems to be an optimal IQ range for lasting in biglaw. Right around 110-130. Too low, and you're too dumb to produce adequate work product. Too high, and you aren't able to put in the necessary hours pushing paper. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26326692) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 1:48 PM Author: Razzmatazz international law enforcement agency well, I don't think it is an IQ thing necessarily....it is just the really smart law grads who somehow ended up at Loyola Law have a lot more to prove. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26326716) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 2:37 PM Author: salmon comical goyim police squad (BIGLAW washout patting himself for his IQ and rationalizing his failure) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26327047) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 2:36 PM Author: salmon comical goyim police squad lol at "proving themselves" people to biglaw to pay off their loans. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26327045) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 2:45 PM Author: Bull Headed Orchestra Pit Biglaw is the most money I cm make at a risk level I'm comfortable with. I'll probably be here until I'm pushed out or retire,even though I have no debt.
Just not at the shit firm I'm at now |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 1:50 PM Author: Bull Headed Orchestra Pit I agree with the last point. I saw my current firm as a secondary choice and fallback option, so I'm not stoked to be there at all. The dude that went to the local ttt and was staring down unemployment thinks its the bees knees. I bet hes there long after I'm gone. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26326726) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 2:13 PM Author: Jet-lagged puppy first and fourth are credited. same goes for guys with good clerkships ime. i'm the last of my group of clerks in biglaw, and I'm a 4th year. the clerks from the year before me have all left too (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26326900) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 2:48 PM Author: crystalline sinister pistol tattoo also, people get sick of the legal system being really fucking dumb (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26327124) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 2:49 PM Author: copper tank range lol faggot. more like they're coddled little pricks who thought the practice of law would be intellectually stimulating like they thought their 1L con law class was. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26327130) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 2:52 PM Author: obsidian sticky crotch I believe this was covered by my point number one. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26327147) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 2:19 PM Author: obsidian sticky crotch This effect has been pretty well documented, so it's not just your impression. See http://thecareerist.typepad.com/thecareerist/2012/03/best-second-tier-law-schools-for-big-law.html
So which schools have a good ratio of hires to partners in Big Law? Well, more "local" schools like University of Houston (1.0 ratio); University of Illinois (1.54 ratio); University of Minnesota (2.0 ratio)—although schools with national reputations like University of Texas (1.84 ratio) and Vanderbilt (1.76) are also in the mix. (TaxProfBlog has a nice chart listing schools most favored by the NLJ 250, plus the schools' ranking.)
Of course, it's a lot tougher for grads of lower-ranked schools to get into the doors of Big Law. But those who make it in are less likely to take the opportunity for granted, says Henderson. "The strivers tend to be more concentrated in the regional law schools," he says. "Face it, being a lawyer is a service job—it's cleaning up other people's problems, and a lot of people who go to elite schools don't want to do that."
So what exactly are those graduates of those elite law schools doing? "I don't know what happens to them but in our study, they're not becoming partners at major law firms, nor are they going in- house," says Henderson. "They must have a better Plan B than the rest of us."
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Date: September 14th, 2014 2:34 PM Author: Chest-beating locale (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26327038) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 2:37 PM Author: know-it-all indirect expression meetinghouse Know some HYS types who are doing the start up thing. Parental money can't be overstated. Their worst case is dad gets them a job somewhere. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26327051) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 2:51 PM Author: obsidian sticky crotch Yeah I wouldn't be surprised if this is actually the most significant of the four factors I outlined. Really smart HYS types tend to have really smart and wealthy parents. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26327140) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 3:52 PM Author: titillating hot toilet seat yeah, this doesn't prove the point - it's just a selection sample question. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26327491) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 3:13 PM Author: orchid learning disabled stage internal respiration SHOCKING: less-intelligent grinders are better at biglaw than intellectual dabblers! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26327260) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 3:31 PM Author: obsidian sticky crotch Why do law firms fight over Stanford law grads who have a less than ten percent chance of sticking around? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26327370) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 5:09 PM Author: excitant bonkers center A bunch of reasons, but 1) it impresses the client; 2) you need the elite students to re-enforce that your firm is not "falling" (why are H kids not going to that firm anymore?!?!?!); 3) for a while the smarter kids are still going to be better lawyers and all these firms have is a shitty 1L transcript to go off of; 4) they aren't leaving after year 1, the firms still make a profit off the stanford kid; 5) despite 1-4, the fact is, law firms are run by an ancient model so it might not make a lot of sense (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26327860) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 5:42 PM Author: Dull Exhilarant Nursing Home Organic Girlfriend Because there arent enough top-of-the-class idiots at St. John's to go around. Firms would rather take the Stanford guy than someone with a 3.49 at Seton Hall. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26328044) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 6:50 PM Author: Confused brass blood rage Also, when an SLS guy leaves the firm, it's often because he's going somewhere that can send the firm work, so losing him to the business side after making money off him for a few years isn't bad. Also, clients like to think their legal matter is being handled by the best, not some freak from Loyola. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26328344) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 3:47 PM Author: Galvanic henna school cafeteria IME, ppl from T14 do bail out sooner espcially if they come from family money. I know a dude that left biglaw after 6 mos to start a restaurant. I am no longer in Biglaw but I get just as frustrated at a lifestyle firm. It gets frustrating being in a service industry where you are there to help others achiever their dreams, independence, etc. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26327459) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 4:53 PM Author: marvelous gay hospital roommate if grades are a function of hard work ethic and students from lower ranked schools generally have higher grades than their peers at the firm from higher ranked schools, then maybe that's it.
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Date: September 14th, 2014 4:58 PM Author: obsidian sticky crotch Law school grades seem only tangentially dependent on work ethic. Conversely, work ethic (as defined by willingness to grind hours pushing paper) is critical for success as a Biglaw associate. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26327814) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 5:00 PM Author: up-to-no-good menage At what year of associate does competence matter? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26327821) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 5:06 PM Author: obsidian sticky crotch Depends how you define competence. Attention to detail is obviously critical from day 1. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26327850) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 5:08 PM Author: marvelous gay hospital roommate i think there is going to a be a correlation between grades and worth ethic given how some people barely read and keep up and others are law review types. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26327857) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 5:12 PM Author: obsidian sticky crotch Perhaps, and it may be more true at lower ranked schools. I went to a top school, and I got the impression pretty much everybody put enough hours in. People got better grades because they were smarter or better at law school exams, not because they worked harder. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26327876) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 5:03 PM Author: Buff boyish selfie (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26327836) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 5:06 PM Author: obsidian sticky crotch You won't last too long in biglaw. Hard to say how fucked though. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26327846) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 5:10 PM Author: Buff boyish selfie (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26327868) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 5:15 PM Author: obsidian sticky crotch Just going by the numbers (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26327897) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 11:30 PM Author: histrionic ruddy idea he suggested antidepressant drug What makes you think you can do Adderall forever? You'll build a tolerance more quickly than you think, and there's only so much Adderall you can take before it starts to seriously impact your health and ability to sleep. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26330334) |
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Date: September 15th, 2014 12:45 AM Author: Buff boyish selfie (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26330862) |
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Date: September 15th, 2014 9:15 PM Author: histrionic ruddy idea he suggested antidepressant drug In my experience, there's not really a sustainable, long-term way to use Adderall. If you need it for the occasional all-nighter then it's a valuable tool, but if you're knocking back 30+ mg's per day every single day then your life will quickly become a living hell. It can easily ruin your career and relationships. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26335433) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 5:11 PM Author: excitant bonkers center 1) DO CORP NOT LIT
2) LAST 4-5 YEARS (3-4 years is still pretty easy if you just bill the hours and keep your head down)
3) DON'T BE NIGGER RICH PAY DOWN DEBT AND BUILD NEST EGG
4) NETWORK THE FUCK OUT OF LIFE, LEVERAGE DEGREE, AT YEAR 4-5 GET INTO IN-HOUSE
5) PROFIT
6) WIN AT LIFE, WIN AT LAW
That's it. Frame this post. This is the only advice you need. |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 5:17 PM Author: Cobalt big-titted gas station why corp not lit bruH? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26327912) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 7:06 PM Author: alcoholic haunting main people Lit is horrid petty fights over stupid bullshit and has bad exit options. Corp is mind-numbing but sets you up for in-house a lot better. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26328425) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 5:11 PM Author: marvelous gay hospital roommate remember it's a marathon not a sprint and first impressions and attitude and giving it a good faith, thoughtful and careful try counts a lot. seniors just want something they can mold into shape, instead of starting from scratch. seniors get angry at thoughtless, careless work.
try to do a better job with fewer hours than taking on too much. any one supervisor will judge you based on your work for them, not on total hours, so you don't really get credit for more hours except from a really high-level, management perspective. just be above average in that respect and you'll be fine. |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 5:15 PM Author: Buff boyish selfie (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26327894) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 5:15 PM Author: excitant bonkers center LOL at the contradiction in this post
"you don't *really* get credit for more hours"
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"just be above average ... and you'll be fine"
Above Average is still pretty fucking shitty in MFH biglaw. Just do have a shitty life *and* expect to have excellent work product, too! |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 5:27 PM Author: marvelous gay hospital roommate i guess i'm saying that your hours only matter if the management types are looking to allocate resources, plan to cull the heard, etc. so just be in the undifferentiated mass. above average to be safe, but don't strive for the top 10%...the 2400 hour bros. just aim for 2000 ideally. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26327964) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 5:29 PM Author: excitant bonkers center Right. I agree. I just wanted to point out that it's not so simple as "just do good work." Hours are a major part of that component, even if it means just being in the 60%tile. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26327973) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 5:05 PM Author: well-lubricated juggernaut I have a HLS friend that loves biglaw. He told me that his ideal day is working until he is exhausted and then going to sleep. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26327842) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 5:09 PM Author: excitant bonkers center Age? Race? Religion? SES level?
I would be ashamed to have a friend like that. |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 5:11 PM Author: Galvanic henna school cafeteria Azn? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26327869) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 5:12 PM Author: well-lubricated juggernaut White. He's actually a good dude too - just a little self-important. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26327877) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 5:11 PM Author: hairraiser area rigor HLS grad here. Completely lack the work ethic for biglaw. Settled into a less intense career after burning out super quick. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26327875) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 5:12 PM Author: well-lubricated juggernaut what's super quick? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26327880) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 5:13 PM Author: hairraiser area rigor Flamed out as an SA (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26327887) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 9:34 PM Author: lascivious genital piercing Like, got fired after an outing to Chelsea Piers? Or didn't go back after graduation? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26329388) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 5:15 PM Author: excitant bonkers center Describe new career. In law? Don't you feel embarrassed? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26327903) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 5:20 PM Author: hairraiser area rigor Not embarrassed. I don't view success in biglaw as the metric by which my life or career ought to be judged. I also am firmly in the "work to live" camp and see my career as merely a way to get money to finance my life. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26327924) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 5:28 PM Author: excitant bonkers center You sound like every single government worker I know. True? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26327969) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 5:52 PM Author: Thriller Step-uncle's House Codepig Yeah, because most BIGLAW work is tedious grinding where being smarter than a 120 IQ is actually a liability. Yes, on occasion and perhaps with seniority someone with a 140+ IQ will start to use their superior brainpower but for the most part it is just too boring for truly bright people to consider fulfilling over the long term. Smarter people also tend to expect more out of life, so whereas some GULC law grad might think any BIGLAW is a fantastic result, an HLS grad will feel like they expected more from their career. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26328091) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 5:56 PM Author: obsidian sticky crotch CR, although I'd set the bar at about 130 IQ. An IQ of 120 isn't really that high -- top 10% across the entire population. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26328105) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 6:05 PM Author: metal round eye This is XO. There are people ITT literally saying that a 110'r is more or less indistinguishable from a 130'r on a day-to-day biglaw basis. Little do they realize that 110 is like a 155 on the LSAT. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26328141) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 6:13 PM Author: obsidian sticky crotch Ok but are you disputing that a 150 iq bro is typically going to flame out of biglaw pretty quick? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26328182) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 10:56 PM Author: Thriller Step-uncle's House Codepig But a 120 is lower 160s on the LSAT, which is about what you need (combined with a high GPA) to get into places like Fordham/UIUC/UCLA/etc. 130 is mid-upper 160s, still fine, but when you start getting too far above that people get smart enough to realize the stupidity of grinding your youth away on biglaw. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26330037) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 10:55 PM Author: Thriller Step-uncle's House Codepig "CR, although I'd set the bar at about 130 IQ. An IQ of 120 isn't really that high -- top 10% across the entire population."
I think plenty of 120 IQ people do fine. Tons of top partners and "superstar" associates are from regional schools. How smart is the guy knocking out a 161 or so on the LSAT?
Let me paint the ideal associate: 3.97 GPA from local school / 161 LSAT --> solid regional school --> top 3% --> their firm. Smart enough to do their job but most importantly, they live to grind and do it well. But, why not the HYP 4.0/177 LSAT --> YHS --> their firm? Because they will quickly realize that biglaw is bullshit. They're not true grinders. |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 10:57 PM Author: obsidian sticky crotch Agree 120 is plenty to do fine. I meant I'd set the high end cap at 130.
So, 110-130 is the sweet spot. Not too dumb, not too smart. |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 11:03 PM Author: Thriller Step-uncle's House Codepig Probably right. I would even say 120-130 is the sweet spot. Below 120 means that they do start to deal with more difficult legal concepts they encounter. Not to say that there aren't plenty of successful lawyers in the 110-120 range, but these people tend to focus on areas where they frankly don't have to think too much. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26330082) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 6:13 PM Author: Kink-friendly quadroon this the precise reason why HLS associates tend to get crushed in litigation. they generally view themselves as above the process, and believe that their innate smarts will carry them to a superior result. the law is, however, the law, and the fed dist ct judges don't care who you think you are or where you went to school. ultimately, the profession is for grinders.
just the other day I watched a TTT partner send a YLS partner out the door kicking and screaming. win your cases, generate billables. that's the game. |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 6:17 PM Author: well-lubricated juggernaut gfto (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26328198) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 7:14 PM Author: Confused brass blood rage Winning in litigation is about having the right facts, knowing how your facts will hold up, and advising the client accordingly.
Winning as a litigator is about grinding out hours for the first few years, and then grinding out hours while bringing in work for the rest of your career.
The HLS degree probably helps a bit in bringing in work down the road, but other than that, it is just a ticket to get in the door at a firm: It does nothing to help the facts of your case or the hours you're willing to bill. |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 11:00 PM Author: Thriller Step-uncle's House Codepig ^^^^^^^^ Typical 120ish IQ bro you find grinding in biglaw. After dealing with this bullshit and his self-satisfied bleating about his "nice settlement" for his large corporate client (the GC of which, while satisfied, found out about it at breakfast and already forgot about it by lunch) and how it was well worth the several all nighters pulled over a fortnight, anyone with actual intelligence or interests begins to realize that alternatives are worth considering. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26330065) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 11:10 PM Author: Motley church building Where's the evidence for HLS associates getting crushed? The one thing you learn pretty early on is that there is very little litigation that requires a great degree of intellect. With enough time and eyes on a case, the optimal strategy for the firm's client will almost always be found. I don't think the Harvard grads are worse at actual practice. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26330140) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 11:29 PM Author: Bull Headed Orchestra Pit Beyond that, as indicated by the 2 posts above yours, having a successful in litigation is about churning billable hours, and being successful in a case is about having the right facts. I've seen some retarded attorneys bring home big verdicts simply because they had the facts. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26330327) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 6:17 PM Author: excitant bonkers center The difference between HLS and GULC is not all that significant. Maybe the difference between HLS and Loyola Chicago, but both GULC and HLS students RUSH to get into BIGLAW. Whether they stay is another issue of course, but GULC students are similar enough to HLS kids.
No, No, I did not attend a law center. |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 8:12 PM Author: Garnet cerebral death wish shrine This.
Harvard law students aren't that much smarter (by what 2 points on the LSAT)? With all the retaking that goes on, I'm not sure that means anything.
Many non-HYS T-14 people I know who have lasted in biglaw were 172-174 LSAT but low GPAs. They scored just as well as Harvard law students on the LSAT but slacked off in college and got lower GPAs, yet they have lasted longer in biglaw. |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 8:19 PM Author: deep plaza circlehead is the gap in intelligence a lot smaller between HLS and GULC than say Harvard ug and northwestern/cornell/wustl? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26328825) |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 9:27 PM Author: Garnet cerebral death wish shrine Looking at non-AA admits, non-URMs, non-legacy, yes.
There's a much bigger gap b/w average standardized test scores for HYPSMitCaltech undergrad and the other top 20 undergrads than the gap for LSAT among the top 14 law schools. Although I think the SAT is more learnable than the LSAT...
I don't really think Harvard grads (both undergrad and law) are that smart, tbh, unless they did a hard science like physics. MIT/Caltech are the only schools that impress me on name alone, in part because most of their grads are hard science majors. |
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Date: September 14th, 2014 8:13 PM Author: Low-t indian lodge cumskin LOL | AT | LAWYERS (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26328779) |
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Date: September 23rd, 2014 12:53 PM Author: Garnet cerebral death wish shrine bump (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26381642) |
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Date: September 23rd, 2014 1:01 PM Author: obsidian sticky crotch Good thread (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2674285&forum_id=2#26381695) |