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Seriously... who the hell is going to law school these days?
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Date: September 24th, 2014 11:46 AM Author: Cyan Wonderful Field Therapy Why the hell are people still going to law school. Even if you go to YLS chances are you are kicked out of your firm after a couple of years and need to either (1) go do "midlaw" shit (does that even still exist post-2009?) for shit hours and pay, or (2) hope you can get some government gig (best case scenario). Lucky few will get decent in house gigs. As recently as 2007 people from top undergrads still seemed to be going to law school, but a lot of them have been screwed over royally and would have been better off working in fucking human resources or marketing BS for that time... at least there is a transferable skill set.
Who, exactly, is enrolling in even MVP type schools these days? I think the entire profession and legal education industry is going into a death spiral. The applicant quality will continue to fall and many schools will close. Firms will be populated with absolute dumb dumbs who had no other options. But frankly, a CUNY MBA is probably a better investment than fucking HLS at 60K per year. I hope some of the arrogant shitbag profs at my T10 get laid the fuck off. |
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Date: September 24th, 2014 5:28 PM Author: 180 theater the problem is the complete obsession with prestige blinds most into dumbass decisions. if you get into a T6 you probably had a full ride from a lower T14. too many people want to post HLS on their facebook and want to look down on a Cornell or Virginia grad.
if you dont have any other career options you should study the fuck out of the LSAT and go to a lower T14 on full ride, and if you dont kill 1L, drop the fuck out. but dogged prestige wont settle... |
Date: September 24th, 2014 11:48 AM Author: Black Skinny Woman Pit Say what you will, but the fact remains that a law degree still opens many doors in 2014 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2682893&forum_id=2#26387782) |
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Date: September 24th, 2014 11:49 AM Author: Cyan Wonderful Field Therapy Hello Office of Career Services at Penn Law. I remember when I was a lemming back in '07 and had been accepted to CLS. I went to career services during "accepted students weekend" and inquired about these "alternative doors" that a law degree opens down the line, since people had been talking that shit up for years. Crickets. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2682893&forum_id=2#26387790) |
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Date: September 24th, 2014 11:55 AM Author: thriller yellow national cr, never met a poor lawyer (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2682893&forum_id=2#26387824) |
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Date: September 24th, 2014 12:03 PM Author: Cyan Wonderful Field Therapy LOL... talk to all those doc review mouth breathers (I know some who went to MVP) about their debt and futures. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2682893&forum_id=2#26387882) |
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Date: September 24th, 2014 5:34 PM Author: Magical ladyboy sup. now you have. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2682893&forum_id=2#26389851) |
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Date: September 24th, 2014 6:33 PM Author: Rusted church building poor lawyer here. sup? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2682893&forum_id=2#26390154) |
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Date: September 24th, 2014 11:54 AM Author: Cerebral slap-happy principal's office associate Part of me wants to say that if I could do it all over again, I wouldn't do law (not that its miserable, just less engaging/exciting than I'd hoped). But the fact is I don't have the talents necessary to earn 6-figures in other professions (i.e., no STEM-type skills). I think this is probably true of many of us. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2682893&forum_id=2#26387815) |
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Date: September 24th, 2014 11:55 AM Author: Cyan Wonderful Field Therapy Do you realize that "digital marketing managers" (idiots fucking around on google analytics, twitter and FB all day), , retail planners, sales account executives, HR execs, with NO GRADUATE EDUCATION can make six figures if they have been doing it long enough? With no debt and very little stress? |
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Date: September 24th, 2014 11:56 AM Author: Cerebral slap-happy principal's office associate most of them don't though. law is one of the easiest and most assured paths to 6-figures. i graduated HS with a 2.5 GPA, didn't take SAT/ACT, putzed around at community college on and off for 5 years, got a bullshit liberal arts bachelor's degree from a commuter school, got a 162 LSAT, then attended the night program of a T3 law school for 4 years (where I did pretty well). outside of law there's literally no other field in which someone like me would have had multiple 6-figure job offers at graduation. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2682893&forum_id=2#26387830) |
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Date: September 24th, 2014 12:06 PM Author: Cyan Wonderful Field Therapy True. I'm talking more about people who went to a decent undergrad . Not community college grads. LOL at Cravath's future... I'm sure clients are still going to pay those community college grads to fuck around on microsoft word. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2682893&forum_id=2#26387893) |
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Date: September 24th, 2014 6:09 PM Author: Sepia adventurous sneaky criminal jfc, the preftige of this dump has fallen off a cliff. fuck, my credentials are 5X that, and I thought I was one of the trashiest MFers on here. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2682893&forum_id=2#26390052) |
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Date: September 24th, 2014 6:25 PM Author: Wine stimulating home LOL at 5x that. How are increments of credentials measured exactly? You were what, top quarter at a T2? A HYPUG Rhodes YLS SCOTUS clerk is like a separate species from this. Were the two people ever to work together it would be like this dude teleported from some TTT alternate universe. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2682893&forum_id=2#26390119) |
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Date: September 25th, 2014 11:10 AM Author: Cerebral slap-happy principal's office associate yeah sorry. I definitely bring down the average of this place. tbf, tho, I grated coif if that helps. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2682893&forum_id=2#26394191) |
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Date: September 24th, 2014 12:21 PM Author: talking ticket booth A lot of young people can't get those jobs. Even at my T6 in the heyday of the 00's when the economy was roaring most students had shit job prospects before law school. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2682893&forum_id=2#26387987) |
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Date: September 24th, 2014 12:25 PM Author: Cyan Wonderful Field Therapy I would think most reasonably intelligent people could get an entry level job at some company, somewhere, and work their way up, or to an MBA. I know literal morons from no name universities (think York College of Pennsylvania) that got entry level communications, sales, operations or marketing jobs. "Business admin" majors who couldn't even cut it in a finance major at HOFSTTTra who got commercial credit gigs and are now making good salaries with very low stress. These people are in better positions today than Ivy to T6 grads I know from back in the day.
With all the information out there, you have to be an absolute idiot to go to any law school today. |
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Date: September 24th, 2014 2:29 PM Author: talking ticket booth Those are nowhere near the norm. The data on median salaries for college grads and the types of positions that grads are taking is pretty clear. Today, most college grads take jobs that do not require a college degree.
Many of the jobs within the fields you listed are dead-end. Many will work in such positions for years if not decades and not even sniff six-figure salaries. Check out the BLS median salary data if you don't believe me. |
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Date: September 24th, 2014 5:40 PM Author: spectacular pale dilemma You're wrong that those fields are dead-end. Depends heavily on the industry, employer, and specific type of, say, communications position. Communications Director after a decade working in the field for a company + some hustle? They'd be in a better position than the vast majority of lawyers. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2682893&forum_id=2#26389887) |
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Date: September 24th, 2014 5:55 PM Author: talking ticket booth The analysis must be done in the aggregate. Most will not become high-level directors, managers, or executives. Look at the median salaries in those fields and compare them to the median salary for an attorney. You can find the data on the BLS website. Attorneys make about 50% more than many of the positions in those fields.
The problem is that students don't realize how hard it is to actually get a job as an attorney and sustain a legal career. They also underestimate the cost of law school. They only see their shitty job and their shitty prospects and decide to take a chance. |
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Date: September 25th, 2014 12:54 AM Author: Dashing Mood Range Funny how the 180 scholars on here always seem to know how easy everyone else has it but couldn't fucking figure it out for themselves. If its so simple then drop your shitlaw and start entry level somewhere and make 6 figures in a few years through "hard work" Morons, of course "the vast majority" are not very rich. Thats the point, only a smaller amount of people get to be rich. Hopefully, you aren't autistic are able to distinguish yourself from the 'vast majority' thus proving you are worth a higher salary. Did everyone here pay 200k to come in the bottom 50% of Georgetown and expect a 180k starting? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2682893&forum_id=2#26392589) |
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Date: September 24th, 2014 12:06 PM Author: Crimson Disturbing Property Scourge Upon The Earth the biglaw path can be seen as a high risk high reward choice:
even if you don't make v20 partner and make $2mm per year in your 40's and $3mm per year in your 50's (putting you in the top 0.1%), there are in house doods that make $300k plus get equity that over time puts them in the top 1-3%.
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Date: September 24th, 2014 12:11 PM Author: Cyan Wonderful Field Therapy How many 300K in house jobs are there out there? I thought most of them paid less than the average first year at a big firm. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2682893&forum_id=2#26387928) |
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Date: September 24th, 2014 1:04 PM Author: Fantasy-prone Chad From what I've seen, people who have really fucked up somehow. Or just come upon some bad luck... my friend got laid off of a finance job after only 8 months, ended up paralegaling out of desperation to pay the bills and found he was untouchable for finance jobs after that. Now at a T10 with a free ride... I told him to just try to cop an MBA (you can still have decent prospects from a Vandy/Emory type program) or masters degree in some business field but he didn't listen. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2682893&forum_id=2#26388142) |
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Date: September 24th, 2014 1:16 PM Author: chestnut motley hell Yeah it's really weird - you'd think that word would have sufficiently filtered back to the good undergrads so that anyone with any other option wouldn't bother to enroll in law school. I know a couple, both went to HYP, then one went HYS the other T6, both got MFH V10 jobs (neither got the field of their choice however), they both hated it and within three years they've both washed out to become inhouse drones. These guys had so many options when they were leaving HYP and now they're pretty much guaranteed to be middle of the pack nobodys who hate their jobs and have to work forever. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2682893&forum_id=2#26388182) |
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Date: September 24th, 2014 1:31 PM Author: Fantasy-prone Chad Yeah.. I highly doubt anyone at a top undergrad is contemplating LS anymore. I graduated a long time ago but from what I understand places like MVP and possibly NYU are really struggling to get quality applicants. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2682893&forum_id=2#26388255) |
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Date: September 24th, 2014 2:30 PM Author: mentally impaired lodge Top schools are churning out just as many useless BAs as they were 6 years ago. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2682893&forum_id=2#26388604) |
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Date: September 24th, 2014 2:34 PM Author: Fantasy-prone Chad I think the point of this thread is that even if you have a useless BA, if you are reasonably intelligent you can find a better career than law, which is essentially anything. A polisci grad from Brown can probably find some kind of sales or client services job, then get an MBA and go into something better. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2682893&forum_id=2#26388633) |
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Date: September 24th, 2014 2:36 PM Author: mentally impaired lodge That is definitely what they should be doing. But many who don't have anything lined up and don't have dat hustle, will still go T14 as the path of least resistance. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2682893&forum_id=2#26388645) |
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Date: September 24th, 2014 1:32 PM Author: Excitant Elastic Band I graduated a TTT in 2011 and now I make 160k a year. law school is a ticket to write your own way in life (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2682893&forum_id=2#26388262) |
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Date: September 24th, 2014 2:24 PM Author: Fantasy-prone Chad I wonder about the future of this "profession." Who the fuck is going to be a partner in X years? Some guy from a community college or perhaps a former criminal who could not get any other job? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2682893&forum_id=2#26388568) |
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Date: September 24th, 2014 2:30 PM Author: talking ticket booth While the LSAT medians are down, they are still higher than they were 15-20 years ago. The sad reality is that as bad as law is, there aren't enough alternatives out there to scare off reasonably intelligent people from pursuing it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2682893&forum_id=2#26388601) |
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Date: September 24th, 2014 2:32 PM Author: offensive dead whorehouse LOL (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2682893&forum_id=2#26388618) |
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Date: September 25th, 2014 12:59 AM Author: Curious Maize Boiling Water Bbw lol. so your on what, day 1? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2682893&forum_id=2#26392613) |
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Date: September 24th, 2014 2:36 PM Author: angry office depressive (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2682893&forum_id=2#26388641) |
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Date: September 24th, 2014 2:46 PM Author: offensive dead whorehouse Put in your time in entry level sales, corp, etc and, in 5 years, you'll do MUCH better than the average lawyer.
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Date: September 24th, 2014 5:38 PM Author: spectacular pale dilemma Your post explains what is wrong with this thread. You're describing what they ought to do, and it is correctly stated. But the point is that theses UGs are not mature enough to see that and still have shitty options, so they end up in law school. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2682893&forum_id=2#26389872) |
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Date: September 24th, 2014 6:24 PM Author: Brindle aromatic kitchen organic girlfriend This is a rough approximation of telling a first year associate to put his time in and just make partner.
Almost all industries have career gridlock form the mid-level on up. |
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Date: September 24th, 2014 6:27 PM Author: Wine stimulating home And bodies scattered along the way of people who flamed out. The difference is that a JD now costs as much as a single family home and entry level jobs in the field went from 5 years secure to 3 years secure to Pleased to meet you, but I don't like your tie, so get the fuck out. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2682893&forum_id=2#26390133) |
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Date: September 24th, 2014 6:39 PM Author: silver bat-shit-crazy stead Even my supermarket chain has basically stopped promoting people. Before ITE started, people were getting promoted every day. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2682893&forum_id=2#26390179) |
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Date: September 24th, 2014 6:30 PM Author: arrogant burgundy resort PAYE (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2682893&forum_id=2#26390145) |
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Date: September 24th, 2014 6:35 PM Author: Anal Fragrant Step-uncle's House Newt (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2682893&forum_id=2#26390161) |
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Date: September 25th, 2014 12:04 AM Author: 180 theater (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2682893&forum_id=2#26392304) |
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Date: September 25th, 2014 1:01 AM Author: Curious Maize Boiling Water Bbw law school is an unconscionable waste of time and money no matter where you go. the only reason to attend is being a mentally ill prestige whore stuck in the 90's. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2682893&forum_id=2#26392625) |
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Date: September 25th, 2014 1:08 AM Author: Multi-colored Main People Cuckold ITT: the whiniest collection of millenials I've seen in quite some time. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2682893&forum_id=2#26392646) |
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Date: September 25th, 2014 1:15 AM Author: 180 theater (Applies to law school because of your comment) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2682893&forum_id=2#26392673) |
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Date: September 25th, 2014 10:04 AM Author: nubile base I am! Can't wait for college 2.0 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2682893&forum_id=2#26393797) |
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Date: September 25th, 2014 10:52 AM Author: 180 theater (ruins life for 3 years of fun) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2682893&forum_id=2#26394084) |
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Date: September 25th, 2014 11:07 AM Author: arrogant burgundy resort If law school is your definition of fun, your life is already pretty ruined anyway (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2682893&forum_id=2#26394173) |
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Date: September 27th, 2014 5:58 PM Author: 180 theater (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2682893&forum_id=2#26410265) |
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Date: September 27th, 2014 6:00 PM Author: nubile base I'll be a lawyer after three years htfh (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2682893&forum_id=2#26410280) |
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Date: September 27th, 2014 6:06 PM Author: Umber effete lay tank seriously it's fucking awesome (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2682893&forum_id=2#26410338) |