how many just bitch about biglaw because it's their first job?
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Poast new message in this thread
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Date: September 28th, 2014 12:03 PM Author: Hairraiser burgundy station jewess
Some do.
Also, a lot of people don't realize that Americans now need to work two jobs for the most part - so big law has bad hours for one job but not so bad if you consider you don't need two jobs.
But given all of this, big law does suck. The work is boring and the stuff you have to care about is very, very mundane. Laughably so. And you do have to work a shitton of hours that would be considered absurd in a normal job.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2686466&forum_id=2#26414113) |
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Date: September 28th, 2014 10:57 PM Author: Chestnut provocative tank double fault
Outed as a 0L hoping that everyone's lying about biglaw sucking.
Doc review is one of the best parts of biglaw. You're getting paid good, stable money doing something you can do on the couch with Monday Night Football on.
OH, BUT HOW the 0L scholars wish to dive into scholarly sweet treats like thorny issues of trust law from the turn of the century.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2686466&forum_id=2#26418364) |
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Date: September 29th, 2014 8:02 AM Author: slate pisswyrm
I've actually never done doc review, so I wouldn't know.
I do occasionally have to do diligence, which I assumed was similar, and I think its awful. But it's a small part of my practice as most clients have another firm do the diligence work.
But, a good portion of the work I actually do is interesting enough. The bad part of my practice is primarily the hours, but there are other aspects (aside from just money) that help make up for it.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2686466&forum_id=2#26420117)
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Date: September 28th, 2014 1:47 PM Author: Transparent Death Wish Pistol
"it is fucking hard to have a life outside of work. If you can get over that..."
lololololololololololololololololololololllolololol
lololololololloloololololololololollololololololololololololol
Look at yourself in the mirror, remember when you were a real person, think of what the person would say to you, considering you just wrote that sentence.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2686466&forum_id=2#26414653) |
Date: September 28th, 2014 12:32 PM Author: Laughsome associate rigpig
it doesn't suck most of the time like a day of grueling manual labor--it just sucks over time as weekend after weekend, night after night, is spent reviewing supply agreements or turning comments to some 150 page contract.
edit: except for ibanking, i also don't know of a job that is so demanding in terms of getting stuff done to completion as soon as the work comes in -- there is this very atypical default expectation that you just stay late or work over the weekend until the task is done.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2686466&forum_id=2#26414237) |
Date: September 28th, 2014 2:14 PM Author: beady-eyed bossy chapel
Nobody has mentioned that your supervisors, such as they are, in biglaw are way more fucking unpleasant than in the vast majority of other fields.
Part of it is how biglaw firms are set up: you have lots of different bosses, and they dont give a fuck that you might have other work to do for other people - they want what they want. But even beyond that, because partners see even the "best" associates as disposable, they feel ok about grinding everyone into the ground.
Edit: there was a perfect post on TLS a few months ago:
The mid-levels and seniors I work for are all nice enough, but when push comes to shove, they will suck you dry for any amount of work that can even marginally increase their standings in partners' eyes. You have a family event that is very important to you that you flagged weeks in advance? Everyone will say that you need to go, but they'll still tell you to come in that weekend.
And that part someone mentioned about reading the phone book? It's more along the lines of "please read this phone book and summarize. Also, please read this other phone book and summarize. How long is reasonable? Four hrs per phone book? You have five to do both."
[5 hrs and 5 mins later, 11:05 pm] "WTF WHY DID THIS TAKE SO LONG AND WHY ISN'T THAT ONE PERSON'S PHONE NUMBER IN HERE THAT WAS REALLY IMPORTANT EVEN THOUGH I DIDN'T TELL YOU WTF WE ARE PAYING YOU A LOT OF MONEY TO ADD VALUE AND OMG THIS IS IMPORTANT AND YOU SUCK DO IT AGAIN YOU HAVE FOUR HOURS TO REDO BOTH PHONE BOOKS."
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2686466&forum_id=2#26414757)
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Date: September 28th, 2014 2:20 PM Author: Glittery Smoky Friendly Grandma
This.
Associates are egotistical douchebags who can't manage worth shit. Some of them are the worst human beings I have ever met in my life and think they are god. They make 200k in MFH - they should realize they are a prole with no real life.
And the micro managing of some people drive me up the wall. And by micro managing I mean they bill 100% of their time to telling others what to do and don't do any real work themselves.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2686466&forum_id=2#26414790) |
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Date: September 28th, 2014 2:23 PM Author: Glittery Smoky Friendly Grandma
Oh and fake deadlines. Associates: WE NEED THIS NOW ASAP ASAP ASAP. Stay here until 3 am and work on this.
Three weeks later........."here are edits that you need to turn ASAP ASAP ASAP" "We didnt look at this until now."
They should kill themselves.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2686466&forum_id=2#26414808) |
Date: September 28th, 2014 6:17 PM Author: up-to-no-good native
Last night around 10 pm I got an email with some edits asking me to turn it. At 1015 I got a follow up "update on timing?" At 1030 I got an email followup that just said "?". At 1100 I got an email followup asking if everything was okay. At 1145 when I got out of the movie I informed the senior I would turn it and senior said "you HAVE to be more responsive than this".
Yup. Totally normal job. Just spoiled kids who don't know what real work is like. SMH.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2686466&forum_id=2#26416219) |
Date: September 28th, 2014 10:24 PM Author: Passionate Chocolate Gaping
obviously there are many whiny bitchfaggots like jacoby shaddix who will find a way to whine and feel sorry for themselves in any situation, but i think previous job experience doesn't matter too much unless you were a coal miner or something.
the unpleasant elements of biglaw are almost universally unpleasant. there are brainless aspie gunners like drunkard or 29 who don't mind the day-in day-out inanity and useless nature of it all, and the ego boost they get out of being a BIGLAWYER helps them rationalize whatever they have trouble with. pretty much everyone else finds it grating and dreams of doing something else.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2686466&forum_id=2#26418057) |
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Date: September 28th, 2014 11:33 PM Author: Ebony Fragrant Church Round Eye
yup, these days lots of jobs demand a ton of hours
also, i find it odd that biglaw associates complain. Just look at our support staff. Paralegals put up the same hours almost, do FAR more mundane bullshit, and get paid less than half with no "partnership" prospects. We have text processing and IT folks who work overnight shifts on weekends, probably getting paid like 50-80k/year. And then there are doc reviewer staff attorneys or outside vendors who also bill by hour/project who get paid SPS. THen there are the ppl who prepare or deliver your seamless web meals at all hours.
As a biglaw associate, you're literally surrounded by ppl with far shittier jobs
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2686466&forum_id=2#26418753) |
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Date: September 28th, 2014 11:39 PM Author: beady-eyed bossy chapel
support staff generally work with jr associates, who are, on avg, far less sociopathic than partners and sr. associates.
second, a large part of associate angst is probably mental - i spent all of this time and money to get here for THIS? and it doesn't ever get better?
Finally, for associates in debt, it begins to feel non-volitonal - that is, I'm not sure how long I can keep it up, but I also can't leave if I want to pay off my debt and have a normal middle class life. So you start to feel trapped.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2686466&forum_id=2#26418826) |
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Date: September 29th, 2014 12:02 AM Author: Ebony Fragrant Church Round Eye
yeah, no sympathy here
i know some of the associates who left biglaw or my firm, sometimes after paying loans. Most were just entitled in attitude and careless/thoughtless in their work. One became a "fine artist." Basically, it's ppl who don't like the idea of responsibility and hard work
biglaw can suck at times, but any job that pays u a 150k+ base salary is like that
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2686466&forum_id=2#26419034) |
Date: September 28th, 2014 11:30 PM Author: Ebony Fragrant Church Round Eye
are all you poasters in NYC v10's?
your experiences all sound atypically shitty, like a collection of the worst stereotypes and horror stories of biglaw
now late into my 4th year at a V20 in California in a busy group. I probably do 2200/year and it's pretty steady and manageable. I work a steady 40-60 hours during the week depending on how busy things are. On weekends, if things are busy, I might do another 10-15, but that's rare; usually it's more like 5. My superiors are all friendly and reasonable. Maybe I just lucked out on a good situation? This makes me hesitant about lateraling, which I sometimes think about doing, but not for any of the reasons ppl are bitching about on this thread.
for the most part, my coworker associates also seem generally OK with things
the only comment that i agree with on this thread is how shitty partnership odds are and it is discouraging when i look ahead
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2686466&forum_id=2#26418713) |
Date: September 28th, 2014 11:52 PM Author: Buck-toothed dun parlor
I'm sorry, but fucking no. I had corporate jobs before biglaw and am in-house now. My in-house position is a "hard" corporate job. It isn't straight 9-5, and I do put it hours on weekends and generally work 50+ hours a week. That said, it is miles ahead of biglaw which remains a complete aberration when it comes to employment hell. Here are the highlights:
- The hours, as mediocre as they are now were on another level then. I have never pulled an all nighter in another job. It was routine in biglaw. That shit absolutely destroys you. And of course, no one in biglaw is impressed. It is simply expected. To be clear, they feel like they have total ownership of your time while you work for the firm. Doesn't matter if you had a vacation planned, a birthday to go to, or a wedding to attend. If your BB buzzes, you need to respond and if something became "urgent" (and it often does), then you need to cancel whatever you had planned and attend to it for as long as it takes.
- The caustic personalities whose entire self-worth revolves around the prestige of their position/firm and will drive you to the grave to ensure that they meet an arbitrary deadline to whoever they report to is beyond anything you see in normal corporate America. And when you work those long hours, this is who you're around.
- Corporate America doesn't have the job security it used to. But even in the "good old days" biglaw had shit job security and everything was "up or out." That permits the assholes described above to make a misplaced comma or God forbid a typo in an email a major career event.
I guess the one exception here is finance. Finance or elite consulting is as bad or worse. But normal jobs are just not that bad. The shit that flies in biglaw would be seen as completely unacceptable and oppressive in other jobs. And indeed, it only works in biglaw because they fully expect 90% of people to burn out by the 5th year. For most other places, they would consider that kind of employee churn to be catastrophic. So they treat them better.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2686466&forum_id=2#26418950) |
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Date: September 28th, 2014 11:59 PM Author: Ebony Fragrant Church Round Eye
again, i find these stories totally odd. I've billed 2600 in a year before, but never done close to an all-nighter; I've stayed up til 1am maybe once doing work and i didn't have to, but wanted to check to make sure some presentation docs were in order for the next morning
hours are steady 50-80 per week, usually closer to 50. It's like 10 more than in-house per week on average
the personalities at my current firm are all super-friendly and reasonable about everything
no one at my firm would call a few typos in a large document the end of anything
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2686466&forum_id=2#26419011) |
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Date: September 29th, 2014 12:04 AM Author: Glittery Smoky Friendly Grandma
lol "ive done 2600 a year" and "checked presentations when i didnt have to"
ok, maybe you're one of "them"- those egotistical douchebag associates who think biglaw is fantastic and has never met anyone who is actually rich and thinks earning 200k working biglaw is "so so so much money"
the first sign? you work when you don't have to. the sad part that you don't realize is, especially if you're a litigator, your exit opps are SHIT. so why bother trying so hard now? realize now that your hard work and effort, if you're a litigator especially, will be worth nothing in the long run
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2686466&forum_id=2#26419039) |
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Date: September 29th, 2014 12:10 AM Author: Ebony Fragrant Church Round Eye
dunno, i actually found that project i worked a lot on somewhat interesting
jobs are a lot better when you actually like them; i think that's the fundamental issue here for the complainers
i'd say at my firm, about 1/3 of the associates actually like the job a lot; 1/3 find it passable; the other 1/3 hate it
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2686466&forum_id=2#26419092) |
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Date: September 29th, 2014 12:14 AM Author: Glittery Smoky Friendly Grandma
so you worked the entire time u were in the office?
and you worked pretty much 7 days a week?
how does your life NOT suck
nurses probably make far more money than you do per hour fwiw
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2686466&forum_id=2#26419129) |
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Date: September 29th, 2014 12:18 AM Author: Glittery Smoky Friendly Grandma
hahahahah getting paid 200k for a 65-80 hour work week, where taxes take half
sounds like a great life
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2686466&forum_id=2#26419151)
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Date: September 29th, 2014 12:08 AM Author: Glittery Smoky Friendly Grandma
probably padding his hours
i was pulling late nights all the time billing 2300
some people at my firm claim to bill 3000...yet they have weekends and don't look sleep deprived. many, many people think they pad.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2686466&forum_id=2#26419071) |
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Date: September 29th, 2014 12:14 AM Author: Buck-toothed dun parlor
Yeah, I was billing 2200-2300 and pulling 1-2 all nighters a month. And it was fucking awful.
"some people at my firm claim to bill 3000...yet they have weekends and don't look sleep deprived. many, many people think they pad."
They have to. Assuming they take almost no vacation except for occasional sick days, christmas, new year, etc. assume they bill the full 50 weeks a year. That means 60 hours/week. Which, is not easy to straight up bill. That means zero dry spells. Otherwise, if you have one week with no work then the next 6 weeks will need 70 hours/week to make up for it.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2686466&forum_id=2#26419131) |
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Date: September 29th, 2014 12:13 AM Author: Ebony Fragrant Church Round Eye
i wasn't doing 80 every week. Most weeks were less; I maybe did 80 like 4-5 times.
80 hours for me was 13-14 hours each weekday, plus another 15 on the weekend
EDIT: it was also 80 hours worked, not billed. Billed was like 60
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2686466&forum_id=2#26419121) |
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Date: September 29th, 2014 12:11 AM Author: Glittery Smoky Friendly Grandma
reminds me of douchebags who claim to bill 3000
i saw the bill and the douche billed 2 hours to turning a doc to me
i checked my email records and he only edited the doc for 1 hour
so douchebag had billed twice what he actually worked
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2686466&forum_id=2#26419102)
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Date: September 29th, 2014 1:51 AM Author: Chartreuse gas station
Fuck all the 2nd year associate apologist turds ITT.
"I disagree, all the folks at my firm are quite nice and I find it more or less reasonable, and after all we do make a tidy sum," says the guy who every normal person at the firm cannot fucking stand.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2686466&forum_id=2#26419573) |
Date: October 25th, 2014 11:04 AM Author: Exciting purple jap
Every 0L should be require to watch this video:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=XgSJUzYCGtc
Part of the problem with Biglaw is that you don't realize how bad it is until after you leave. Some of us have a high pain threshold. It's the same reason why we did well grinding in college while everyone else was drinking Busch light, why we went to law school, why we took the firm job to begin with. We think we are making a trade for the future and this is what having a "real job" is. So while everyone else is bitching, we are just like "it's not perfect but whatever."
When you finally do leave and you see how other people work, and how "it doesn't have to be this way," it makes you wonder why you never figured it out before. Some of the partners have never figured it out.
There is a reason why the system is set up to hire naive children who have never worked before and super study soulless Asians.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2686466&forum_id=2#26582457)
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