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ITT: People who've done or know someone who's done doc review...
Poast new message in this thread
Date: January 19th, 2015 9:30 PM Author: heady state regret To clarify, I'm talking about doing doc review as a full-time contract gig, not in the context of firm work. Yes, xo 2015.
Is it really the magic promised land of easy-to-obtain, and low-stress work that people make it out to be?
If you've done (or know somebody who has done) doc review in the past year, how much money could somebody get doing English-only doc review per year? How much down time is there between gigs on average? |
Date: January 19th, 2015 9:31 PM Author: Marvelous feces I did some doc review as a first year. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2786642&forum_id=2#27148620) |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 9:31 PM Author: heady state regret In a firm? I'm talking about doing doc review full-time. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2786642&forum_id=2#27148624) |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 9:32 PM Author: Marvelous feces oh then i can't help you (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2786642&forum_id=2#27148629) |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 9:32 PM Author: Opaque adventurous locus same and honestly it's about as easy as biglaw gets (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2786642&forum_id=2#27148631) |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 9:33 PM Author: heady state regret See response above - I'm talking about full-time. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2786642&forum_id=2#27148640) |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 9:34 PM Author: Dashing disrespectful faggot firefighter public bath Lol why is everyone thinking you're talking about biglaw? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2786642&forum_id=2#27148646) |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 9:36 PM Author: heady state regret No clue. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2786642&forum_id=2#27148663) |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 9:34 PM Author: Marvelous feces Propped up my hours a lot as a first year, even though I wasn't a shittgator. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2786642&forum_id=2#27148644) |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 9:33 PM Author: laughsome party of the first part school This blog ended probably because things have gotten much better
http://temporaryattorney.blogspot.com/ |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 9:33 PM Author: Dashing disrespectful faggot firefighter public bath Relevant to my interest. I really wanna quit my job and do document review. My advice is to learn Spanish. I'm on the list and get emails and get a lot of Spanish posts. Probably a lot realistic than learning another language. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2786642&forum_id=2#27148641) |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 9:37 PM Author: heady state regret Do you already know Spanish or are you teaching yourself? I thought they wanted a pretty high level of fluency. Also seems like Japanese and other languages are the ones that pay a lot - does Spanish pay a lot more?
Do you have any inkling how easy it is to get by just English-only. I'm kinda in same boat as you - looking to quit job for doc review. |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 9:35 PM Author: puce spot scourge upon the earth Sup (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2786642&forum_id=2#27148659) |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 9:36 PM Author: Dashing disrespectful faggot firefighter public bath How much did you make? NYC? What other stuff can you do hourly to make extra cash? (Personal training, drawing shit, etc) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2786642&forum_id=2#27148670) |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 9:37 PM Author: puce spot scourge upon the earth (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2786642&forum_id=2#27148681) |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 9:38 PM Author: heady state regret English only? What's hourly rate? How is it part time if you're making 65k? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2786642&forum_id=2#27148691) |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 9:41 PM Author: puce spot scourge upon the earth (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2786642&forum_id=2#27148713) |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 9:42 PM Author: heady state regret So when you do work, how much time do you put in each week? Are you planning to leave doc review and if so, how hard to get out of it once you're in?
On a similar note how hard to crack in without any experience in it? |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 9:45 PM Author: puce spot scourge upon the earth (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2786642&forum_id=2#27148757) |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 9:49 PM Author: heady state regret Nice. What agency are you with if that's not too outable.
What were you doing before this? What made you go into doc review? |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 9:54 PM Author: puce spot scourge upon the earth (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2786642&forum_id=2#27148850) |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 9:50 PM Author: Dashing disrespectful faggot firefighter public bath 1800000 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2786642&forum_id=2#27148807) |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 9:52 PM Author: heady state regret You seem really sold on this idea, why haven't you made leap yet? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2786642&forum_id=2#27148839) |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 9:52 PM Author: Provocative mad cow disease international law enforcement agency You are lucky (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2786642&forum_id=2#27148835) |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 9:42 PM Author: Bearded Heaven Background Story He's probably full time, making something like $30-$32/hr. He said he went from one project to another with only a 1 week layoff. That's actually pretty rare, and more often than not if your project ends you have to wait weeks, even months for another one to open up. Your only hoap is if you get in REALLY good with an agency and their management that has a lot of big case clients, so you're at the "top of the list" for any project that comes through. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2786642&forum_id=2#27148722) |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 9:44 PM Author: heady state regret When you say agency do you mean those companies like Epiq et al? Just build a relationship with one of their recruiters or do you mean people actually managing the on-site doc review? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2786642&forum_id=2#27148740) |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 9:47 PM Author: Bearded Heaven Background Story Update, Tower, Hudson, Strategic, Black Letter, Essential, etc. etc. etc. Tons of agencies out there. But yes, build a relationship (which only comes after you've been on a gig or two and performed well) so you maintain priority when it comes to filling the next gig. The problem with this is like anything, if that recruiter moves on to another gig, then you're back at square one and just another candidate in the infinite pool of reviewer scum. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2786642&forum_id=2#27148775) |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 9:36 PM Author: heady state regret Can you address questions in OP? Thx. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2786642&forum_id=2#27148671) |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 9:37 PM Author: Dashing disrespectful faggot firefighter public bath Can u create a moniker so we can talk about this in the future? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2786642&forum_id=2#27148677) |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 9:38 PM Author: heady state regret email? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2786642&forum_id=2#27148684) |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 9:41 PM Author: Dashing disrespectful faggot firefighter public bath No I mean just a name so I can holler "AYO PAULIE I SAW THIS DOC REVIEW GIG WHAT DO YOU THINK". Hard to find ppl to talk about this (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2786642&forum_id=2#27148711) |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 9:41 PM Author: heady state regret Gotcha. Not really on here much so probably won't help sorry dude. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2786642&forum_id=2#27148716) |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 9:38 PM Author: Bearded Heaven Background Story Is this flame?
The pay rates vary quite a bit depending on location, availability of OT, and whether you're on a long-term project (say 6 mths or more) versus a more temporary one (a couple weeks, a month or two). You'd be hard pressed to make anything more than 70K unless you hit the jackpot with a long-term project or do OT.
The trend lately is for lower wages (more available reviewers and less available projects) due to more efficient discovery practices with the software, as well as clients demanding less and less bs costs related to it. You'd be a moron to go into doc review unless you're in high demand as a glorified interpreter (Japanese, Mandarin, or some obscure language) where you can then make 125K-150K if you work year round. |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 9:41 PM Author: heady state regret No flame.
Why would it be moronic? I realize it's not something to do for years. But if I'm looking to leave my job it seems like a way to make money while I figure out what to do. I'm not making bank right now anyway. |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 9:43 PM Author: Dashing disrespectful faggot firefighter public bath Dude ur identical to me in that regard. I'm starting to hate my job and I just want to know if I'll be able to eat while I wait for my new career. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2786642&forum_id=2#27148729) |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 9:44 PM Author: heady state regret Yes, this is basically me. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2786642&forum_id=2#27148745) |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 9:45 PM Author: Bearded Heaven Background Story Because it's a bridge to nowhere...once you're on the circuit, you'll be hard pressed to get out. It's not something you want to be claiming on a resume unless you intend to do it indefinitely. There is very little opportunity as an English reviewer to do anything beyond it in the future.
You'd be better off being unemployed and focusing "full time" energy on copping dat next job, or hanging a shingle briefly with some clients to justify your employment gap. |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 9:46 PM Author: heady state regret What if I want out of law and into something quasi-law or completely out of of law? Is it a resume-killer then? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2786642&forum_id=2#27148766) |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 9:49 PM Author: Bearded Heaven Background Story Yes. Absolutely. What skills are you possibly honing in review? I can read and click a couple boxes? Congrats, you can work at the DMV. No one will give you a recommendation or performance review either that can be useful.
As I said, you're better off being unemployed and networking like a boss in whatever field you're trying to get into. Attending forums and events, enter startup competitions in the industry, write a blog, etc. |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 9:50 PM Author: Dashing disrespectful faggot firefighter public bath But being unemployed creates a money problem, no? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2786642&forum_id=2#27148819) |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 9:51 PM Author: heady state regret Well my thought was I could do that stuff on side while using doc review to pay bills .... It's not like I have to put it on resume if I feel like it's going to be a deficit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2786642&forum_id=2#27148820) |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 9:54 PM Author: Dashing disrespectful faggot firefighter public bath Apparently no one is getting the question. I've attempted to get an answer from XO on this for years and everyone changes the subject.
What I want to hear is this: " yeah man, you can easily make $60k and live a chill lifestyle with no stress."
I always get people to get CLOSE to saying that but then someone pops in and says "lol dude why do u wanna do that? It's a resume killer. Just be unemployed." |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 9:56 PM Author: heady state regret Lol, exactly. Like I'm just wanting to make sure I'm not shooting myself in foot by quitting my middle-of-the-road 9-5. My job is already boring. If I can take a super chill but boring thing that basically guarantees 50k working only part time, that sounds like a trade off I'm willing to take right now.
But IF it's a crapshoot and there's a risk I'll only make like 20k, no, I'm not doing it. |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 9:54 PM Author: Provocative mad cow disease international law enforcement agency Thing with this is a) places that straight up forbid moonlighting or b) places that dont offer the day to day flexibility to get your side work on while also meeting the requirements at the temp gig. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2786642&forum_id=2#27148856) |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 9:57 PM Author: heady state regret What was your specific experience with it? How much did you make per year in English-only? And was it recent? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2786642&forum_id=2#27148877) |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 10:05 PM Author: Provocative mad cow disease international law enforcement agency Im on phone now, so cant type essay, but I graduated in a shit year and know ppl that have done it due to ITE, change of jx, or are on the other side of it with staffing and shit.
There arent any gurantees early on. You could make $35-40k or make much much more. If you get a long-term shitshow that needs tons done with deadlines left and right and unlimited OT, you'd do well. But if you can't line up gigs or they arent offering OT, it's less.
Think about it, $30/hr full time is 60ish per year. For every week you dont work, youre out $1200. Have a bunch of short gigs with downtime in between and your year tanks. |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 9:45 PM Author: odious peach associate it looks bad on the resume, no one leaves their job for doc review (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2786642&forum_id=2#27148758) |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 9:47 PM Author: heady state regret Even shitlawyers who make 35k/year in NYC wouldn't quit for doc review? I find that hard to believe, especially if the numbers thrown out above are accurate. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2786642&forum_id=2#27148776) |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 9:48 PM Author: Dashing disrespectful faggot firefighter public bath (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2786642&forum_id=2#27148782) |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 9:53 PM Author: odious peach associate This is correct. The reason is that if you start out making 35K, there's a good chance you will gain experience and make more money down the road. With doc review experience is basically useless and you never advance. Also a lot of people cannot tolerate how boring it is. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2786642&forum_id=2#27148849) |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 9:55 PM Author: heady state regret Fair enough. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2786642&forum_id=2#27148863) |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 9:58 PM Author: odious peach associate It's more depressing than you think it is. If you have another project on the side and are doing this to make ends meet then its not so bad. Otherwise don't do it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2786642&forum_id=2#27148882) |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 10:00 PM Author: heady state regret Thanks. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2786642&forum_id=2#27148899) |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 10:03 PM Author: puce spot scourge upon the earth Ya like, doc review is fine if your attitude to your Law degree is "lol I've made a terrible mistake" and you're basically doing it for a chill paycheck while transitioning to something else or pursuing outside interests.
If you are still super striver about your legal career you won't have a good time. |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 9:44 PM Author: Provocative mad cow disease international law enforcement agency You have to live in a major market, and it's a crap shoot. People that have done it more make out better because they have the contacts and experience.
Foreign language pays better, but spanish doesnt pay much more. Asian character languages are best. Weird shit like Norwegian or goofy middle eastern languages pay better but are infrequent.
If you have a nest egg and are looking to coast, maybe go for it, but if downtime would make you squirm, I might look elsewhere. |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 9:44 PM Author: heady state regret Ty. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2786642&forum_id=2#27148751) |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 9:52 PM Author: Bearded Heaven Background Story I've been answering a ton in this thread, but look. I've been doing review for 3 years, after making the fatal mistake of taking "just one doc review gig" after my company went under. If I could go back, I'd just stay on a friend's couch or do a free internship, ANYTHING to continue on the normal practice path.
Now, I have to work a few months here and there, then be unemployed for a few months, rinse and repeat, struggling to find anything with a complete inability to explain why I've done such bs for 3 years and built no skills. FWIW, I've averaged about 45-50K each year (granted, that was working about 6-7 mths each year) but it's no way to live or establish a career. |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 9:54 PM Author: heady state regret What you say actually sounds 180. 50k for 7 months? That's a ton of time to network and do other shit, and respectable pay for that amount of work. What market are you in?
I think the difference between us is you're really sold on being a lawyer - I'm not as much. |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 9:56 PM Author: Provocative mad cow disease international law enforcement agency What market are you in? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2786642&forum_id=2#27148867) |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 9:59 PM Author: heady state regret One of DC, NYC, SF, LA, Chicago (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2786642&forum_id=2#27148890) |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 10:06 PM Author: Provocative mad cow disease international law enforcement agency (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2786642&forum_id=2#27148953) |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 9:58 PM Author: Slate startling hall Is it really the magic promised land of easy-to-obtain, and low-stress work that people make it out to be?
Sup brah. I'm in a major market and it was actually hard to get my first gig. I got kinda lucky and a big project with lots of conflicts needed 100s of attorneys so they were desperate. After that project which was 6 months of Relativity experience, I could pick up most projects and got in good with management of the e-discovery firm I worked at. For the most part it is low stress work unless you have the supervisor sitting in your room or if they don't let you use phones or internet.
If you've done (or know somebody who has done) doc review in the past year, how much money could somebody get doing English-only doc review per year? How much down time is there between gigs on average?
Doc review pays $30-35/hr with no special language skills and usually lower 30s in my market. It's hard to say how much money you can get since it seems like most of the gigs out there are 3-6 week gigs and picking up consistent gigs is kind of tough. It's not uncommon for dry spells to last 1-2 months. If you're lucky and get staffed on a 6 month project and it's a chill work environment, you're set. Unless you had a long term project with lots of OT, I think you'd be lucky to take down $50K working doc review which means you're working most of the time.
edit: I should also note as previous poasters above have said that you don't want to get stuck there for too long. I don't know what you're trying to transition to but I've seen way too many unmotivated, depressing, lifers, burnouts, and loan-stricken lawyers to want to stay there. sometimes they sit in front of the screen the whole day without saying a word and you can't help but wonder what kind of shell of a human being you're working with.
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Date: January 19th, 2015 10:02 PM Author: heady state regret Okay, thanks for info. So you're saying I cannot count on 50k even in a major market. That's helpful info. What's the bottom line for a diligent doc reviewer who doesn't screw up? 40k?
What was your specific experience like? How much did you make each year? I assume you're still working in it ... how's it going now?
Regarding project length - how reliable are their estimates for how long it'll last? If I tell the agency I can't make the leap until I get a longer-term one, can I rely on that estimate? |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 10:16 PM Author: puce spot scourge upon the earth You can't rely on individual project estimates at all basically. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2786642&forum_id=2#27149022) |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 10:17 PM Author: Slate startling hall I don't really know because I purposely took off 3-6 months to do other things and explore other non-legal opportunities. If I had to guess I probably could've done $45K on the low end pre-tax.
Not working in it anymore. Experience is that it's chill and you can make some work friends who will help you pass time with idle chatter. I've been on reviews where everyone was very serious and still thought they were too good for doc review. My first project, everyone was serious until a month in and place turned into a party due to lack of supervision. Think like 2 hr lunches, getting drunk or stoned on breaks, hanging out in the rooms and doing jack shit, watching netflix on work computers, etc.
I've only done 3 or so, and they've all been fairly reliable estimates. Sometimes they'll try to keep you from bailing early by saying the project could last much longer than initial deadline. Agencies can and will mislead you about duration though if it works to their benefit. I think I just got lucky. 2/3 projects lasted longer than initial estimates and 1 was cut short a week.
I would be wary of getting stuck in doc review. Most of your coworkers are secretly depressed and straddled by debt. The shame and embarrassment in some of these people are palpable and you'll rarely meet anyone who is actually happy in life... except maybe a girl who's engaged to a rich guy and knows she's out very soon. |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 10:51 PM Author: heady state regret Thanks!
So bottom line: if I'm not making a ton of money and want some change in my life, would you say doc review is a good or bad idea? |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 10:51 PM Author: puce spot scourge upon the earth http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/search/lgl?query=-patent+-foia+-eeo+review++%2835+%7C+34+%7C+33+%7C+32+%7C+31+%7C+30%29
The above link should give you a bit of a sense of what the market for decent paying projects in DC has been like over the past couple weeks. |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 10:53 PM Author: heady state regret They all require DC bar admittance. I think I remember hearing that a DC judge ruled doc review is "practice of law." Are other jurisdictions that stringent if I decide to take a doc review elsewhere? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2786642&forum_id=2#27149379) |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 10:58 PM Author: puce spot scourge upon the earth DC is the most stringent but that's part of why the rates are higher than NYC. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2786642&forum_id=2#27149436) |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 11:03 PM Author: heady state regret How hard is getting barred there? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2786642&forum_id=2#27149477) |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 11:06 PM Author: puce spot scourge upon the earth You can waive in from any state with a very low mbe score and by paying the fee. It's super easy but they take up to a year to process ur application. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2786642&forum_id=2#27149501) |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 10:52 PM Author: frum black dragon Know 1 sad friend who did it. It's like working for any temp agency and sucks if you have any ambition or intellectual curiosity (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2786642&forum_id=2#27149372) |
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Date: January 19th, 2015 10:54 PM Author: heady state regret Was he able to pay the bills though? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2786642&forum_id=2#27149388) |
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Date: January 20th, 2015 10:59 AM Author: heady state regret Bump (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2786642&forum_id=2#27151150) |
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Date: January 20th, 2015 11:01 AM Author: Provocative mad cow disease international law enforcement agency do you have a throwaway (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2786642&forum_id=2#27151156) |
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Date: January 20th, 2015 11:36 AM Author: heady state regret Yah.
seekingdocreview@hmamail.com |
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Date: January 20th, 2015 1:20 PM Author: heady state regret Replied using Gmail throwaway. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2786642&forum_id=2#27151891) |
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Date: January 20th, 2015 11:03 AM Author: concupiscible apoplectic church building Might want to ask JDU. They'd probably know a lot more about doc review. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2786642&forum_id=2#27151164) |
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Date: January 20th, 2015 12:32 PM Author: Mind-boggling alcoholic faggotry I did it for two months in SF for 38/hr. It was actually pretty nice. The biglaw firm we worked for was pretty nice to us. Let us eat with them etc. Chill gig but that project didn't last longer than six months for the other guys. I took off after getting shit law job.
Japanese doc review makes big money and hasn't slowed down for years. Friends make 95/hr and 9-5 or they get overtime. |