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Secondary Markets
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Date: January 21st, 2015 12:00 PM Author: Magenta range Subject: Secondary Markets After first semester at CCN I'm bottom third at best. The only outcome I want from law school is a market paying job in my fly over home market. Think Minneapolis/Denver/St. Louis. I obviously have strong ties, but I also have a reasonably interesting resume and am not an aspie. So of course I will be trying to right the ship in the spring here and bring my GPA up as much as possible, but if I'm sitting roughly where I am now come summer how fucked am I? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2787989&forum_id=2#27157699) |
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Date: January 21st, 2015 12:02 PM Author: pea-brained lay u black/hispanic/minority? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2787989&forum_id=2#27157710) |
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Date: January 21st, 2015 12:05 PM Author: Magenta range neg. cornfed whitebro (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2787989&forum_id=2#27157738) |
Date: January 21st, 2015 12:04 PM Author: slate boistinker just start a law business (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2787989&forum_id=2#27157730) |
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Date: January 21st, 2015 12:05 PM Author: turquoise multi-billionaire gay wizard ull be ok (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2787989&forum_id=2#27157735) |
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Date: January 21st, 2015 12:05 PM Author: deep mad-dog skullcap home sorry bro, enjoy your lower V100 MFH BIGLAW job (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2787989&forum_id=2#27157739) |
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Date: January 21st, 2015 12:07 PM Author: Magenta range nope. pretty certain if mass mailing my hometown isn't fruitful i'll just call it. I'm not doing the MFH shuffle (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2787989&forum_id=2#27157750) |
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Date: January 21st, 2015 12:23 PM Author: excitant faggotry doctorate leave while U can (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2787989&forum_id=2#27157844) |
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Date: January 21st, 2015 12:23 PM Author: turquoise multi-billionaire gay wizard (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2787989&forum_id=2#27157846) |
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Date: January 21st, 2015 12:27 PM Author: mewling house Why would you go to CCN if you wanted to practice in a secondary market and not even try MFH?
That seems to be your first dumb decision. Second dumb decision would likely be not dropping out after secondary market doesn't pan out. |
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Date: January 21st, 2015 12:31 PM Author: Magenta range wasn't sure when i committed. home or bust is a position i took after school started (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2787989&forum_id=2#27157895) |
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Date: January 21st, 2015 12:33 PM Author: mewling house Make sure you get a 1L job in your hometown then. If OCI/mass mailing doesn't work out, drop out. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2787989&forum_id=2#27157908) |
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Date: January 21st, 2015 12:34 PM Author: Magenta range i actually had two call backs for 1L SAs there, but they were both pre grade bomb. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2787989&forum_id=2#27157916) |
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Date: January 21st, 2015 12:37 PM Author: mewling house Then do whatever is necessary to get to median. It's not a good look when hometown boy leaves to go to fancy university in the big city, fails to do well, then comes back w/ his tail between his legs spouting that he wanted to come back home in the first place. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2787989&forum_id=2#27157926) |
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Date: January 21st, 2015 12:53 PM Author: deep mad-dog skullcap home He thought he was a glory boy, but he's just an uppity ham-and-egger (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2787989&forum_id=2#27158029) |
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Date: September 25th, 2015 4:04 PM Author: Big twisted gaping (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2787989&forum_id=2#28836719) |
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Date: January 21st, 2015 12:34 PM Author: Insanely creepy cracking depressive This.
If you were doing secondary you should have gone full ride at the state flagship.
Sucks for you, breh. |
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Date: January 21st, 2015 12:40 PM Author: Magenta range sure, but if i didn't fare well on exams here, isn't it probably equally likely that i wouldn't have made the GPA cutoff at the state flagship required for market paying biglaw in the city anyway? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2787989&forum_id=2#27157944) |
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Date: January 21st, 2015 12:43 PM Author: deep mad-dog skullcap home For Minneapolis/Denver/St Louis, you might have been better off taking a good chunk of money at Michigan or something instead of Columbia at full price or UMinn/WUSTL/Boulder on full ride. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2787989&forum_id=2#27157958) |
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Date: January 21st, 2015 12:48 PM Author: Insanely creepy cracking depressive This. There are a lot of T25 - T50 schools in secondary markets that have full rides no strings.
You done goofed, son. |
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Date: January 21st, 2015 12:51 PM Author: deep mad-dog skullcap home No, I was saying to maybe split the difference. Take a lower T14 that is in the general region (if applicable) with 50% scholarship or something, instead of CLS with no money, or local T20-50 with full ride. A school like Minnesota sends under 20% of grads to biglaw + fed clerkship. You could end up completely fucked there if you graduate near median. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2787989&forum_id=2#27158015) |
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Date: January 21st, 2015 12:51 PM Author: Magenta range i'm debt free and will be even if i choose to finish here. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2787989&forum_id=2#27158019) |
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Date: January 21st, 2015 12:52 PM Author: mewling house Scholly or family paying? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2787989&forum_id=2#27158023) |
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Date: January 21st, 2015 12:52 PM Author: Magenta range even if i stay bottom third i'll graduate debt free (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2787989&forum_id=2#27158028) |
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Date: January 21st, 2015 12:54 PM Author: mewling house lol, so family is paying. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2787989&forum_id=2#27158037) |
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Date: January 21st, 2015 12:55 PM Author: Magenta range GI bill, just so you don't get the wrong idea about me (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2787989&forum_id=2#27158047) |
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Date: January 21st, 2015 5:31 PM Author: bearded fat ankles newt thank you for your service (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2787989&forum_id=2#27159799) |
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Date: January 21st, 2015 12:44 PM Author: obsidian electric furnace water buffalo mass mail but don't count on getting a 1L SA in a small local market. what you do 1L summer doesn't matter nearly as much as your grades so bring those up and mass mail/network during 2L SA recruiting (summer/fall 2015). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2787989&forum_id=2#27157966) |
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Date: January 21st, 2015 12:57 PM Author: Cerebral purple athletic conference I don't think you're fucked, but bear in mind that a lot of people who did a lot better than you grades-wise will be looking to return to their secondary market. And secondary markets usually mean less positions open.
I'd still try my luck with NYC summer associate opportunities. |
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Date: January 21st, 2015 1:12 PM Author: Avocado nibblets locus just do mfh don't be dumb. lateral to midlaw in secondary market after 3 years.
ny is not all that bad. |
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Date: January 21st, 2015 1:19 PM Author: Magenta range i know this will probably be an option even if i can't clear median. we'll see, i'm feeling pretty mfh averse these days (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2787989&forum_id=2#27158227) |
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Date: January 21st, 2015 1:31 PM Author: Flesh blood rage church building It is incredibly tough to land a SA position in a secondary market coming out of any T14 school, particularly HYSCCN. These firms tends to assume that anyone from a top-ranked school is using them as a "safety firm" and/or that you will leave as soon as you get a job offer in a "sexier" market. I have a friend who was around median at HYS who applied to literally every firm in her home secondary market. She ended up with two screeners and zero callbacks. In both screeners they spent the entire interview grilling her about her ties despite the fact that she had lived in the market with her significant other for 10 years and owned a home there. So you're going to have a very tough time landing a job in your home market out of CCN regardless of grades. Starting your career in MFH and then lateralling to your home market is pretty credited, actually. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2787989&forum_id=2#27158287) |
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Date: January 21st, 2015 1:37 PM Author: Magenta range thank you. if i thought there was a high degree of certainty i could lateral there from a NYC V100 that might be okay. it's just important for me to end up there eventually, sooner than later. also i guess i'll do whatever i can to sell ties, i'm not sure what more you could do than being there 10 years and owning a home. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2787989&forum_id=2#27158330) |
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Date: January 21st, 2015 1:45 PM Author: Cerebral purple athletic conference Never underestimate how much ties mean to local employers. You may lose out to the kid coming out of Harvard Law who lived in your city and wants to work at the #1 law firm in the city (think Perkins-Seattle or Wilson Sonsini-Palo Alto).
Also hit up firms that don't do the OCI thing. Send your resume, make them aware of who you are.
It's easy to lateral from NYC V100 (or even V200) into one of these smaller market firms. |
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Date: January 21st, 2015 1:47 PM Author: mewling house Bro, St. Louis firms look down on WUSTL students b/c they could've gone to SLU. You done goofed by going to New York and wanting to work in the midwest.
Like I said, it's imperative that you work in your hometown during 1L summer. If you end up doing something in your LS's city, you're done here. |
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Date: January 21st, 2015 1:49 PM Author: Offensive Giraffe I think the real Q is how are country/fly over is this place. I don't think the top firms in Minneapolis are struggling to find qualified applicants, and I sense they will see you a flight risk.
You should network like a motherfucker and have that 2 minute elevator pitch down cold. MFH made you miss home or whatever.
Why do you want to move to proleville so badly anyway? |
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Date: January 21st, 2015 1:56 PM Author: Magenta range because i'm a prole from proleville i guess. i plan on being very plain with any firm that gives me a callback that it is my intention to accept any offer i have in the market before i go back to school and not even participate in my schools OCI. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2787989&forum_id=2#27158417) |
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Date: January 21st, 2015 1:58 PM Author: Offensive Giraffe white bro with social skills ranked 40/100 @ CLS still gets V100
Why not V100, make $$$$$$ then go back to shit town
people do it ya know |
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Date: January 21st, 2015 2:01 PM Author: Cerebral purple athletic conference Because there are less jobs in Proleville, and there will always be some HLS stud who comes from the same community.
There will always be a V200 job waiting for someone in the bottom third at Columbia. And that's not a terrible fate at all. |
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Date: January 21st, 2015 4:44 PM Author: Cordovan Stage Boltzmann All of the advice in this thread is absolutely horrible.
The idea that you should have gone to the local school is shit. The market you're looking at will be flooded with applicants from that school. You would have to be very near the top of the class from the local school to get a job at a respectable firm. It sounds like you wouldn't have been able to accomplish that. Coming from a prestigious out of town school sets you apart.
The idea that you should sacrifice three years of your life at some horrible sweatshop in NYC is also shit. There's one observation in this thread that does have some truth to it: s the firm will want to know why you're sending them a resume from out of town. But it's not that your "ties" are important in some abstract sense. It's that the firm wants to know whether you really do want to come home, or whether you're just hedging your bets. So don't go to New York. Start demonstrating your commitment to your home market now.
In my secondary market, which is similar to the ones you listed, you would have a good shot at a job with one of the better firms in town. It might not happen until 3L or so. But at that point, you will have had a chance to get your grades up and show your commitment to the market.
Compile a list of all the firms in town (not just the huge ones, there are probably one or two respectable 10 or 20 person boutiques that would be interested in your pedigree). Send them all your resume with a cover letter that is more than just a template you borrowed from career services--actually explain where your from and that you want to go home. And start meeting lawyers back home. |
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Date: January 21st, 2015 5:15 PM Author: Thriller haunting address roast beef I think the advice could be more right for some markets than for others. I practice in the Cincinnati-Dayton-Columbus markets, and I have observed local big firms occasionally hiring from T14 schools. I'd say that maybe 1/3 of their hires are from better schools out of state, and 2/3 are from local schools. The size of associate classes has shrunk considerably, so the firms can afford to be quite choosy. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2787989&forum_id=2#27159702) |
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Date: January 21st, 2015 5:17 PM Author: sepia pocket flask area cr. You have to fly home and meet these people in person. Having tried this myself at one point, a lot of these people are likely to be insecure if they're from the local TTT and will make self-depreciating comments ("ha, but they probably already taught you all this at Columbia..."), so play that down, and talk about sports or other local stuff. It's going to be an uphill battle to convince them that you're not viewing them as a back-up, and a form email that took 10 mins to write and 15 seconds to customize isn't going to do it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2787989&forum_id=2#27159717) |
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Date: January 21st, 2015 6:47 PM Author: Magenta range In the almost certain situation where the SA's I interviewed for there don't pan out, would CR be to do PI or damn near anything I can so long as it is legal and in that market? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2787989&forum_id=2#27160141) |
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Date: January 21st, 2015 10:41 PM Author: Flesh blood rage church building Absolutely not. You're much better off going to MFH and trying to lateral. If you take a shitlaw job in your home secondary market, future employers will assume that a CCN student who didn't get biglaw must have had shit grades or a terrible personality. And you'll be competing with MFH biglawyers trying to lateral home. If you have shitlaw on your resume, your application will go straight to the trash. If you want to go home so bad that you'd rather do shitlaw at home than biglaw in MFH, then maybe. But if you want any kind of a fulfilling legal career, taking any sort of biglaw job and then lateralling is a much better career path. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2787989&forum_id=2#27161787) |
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Date: January 21st, 2015 10:34 PM Author: Flesh blood rage church building I'm the pumo who posted earlier about my HYS friend who got shut out from her home market. She did basically everything you said in this post. Indeed, she wrote in her cover letter something to the effect of, "I own a home in this city. My long-term SO has a job in this city. We plan to live here the rest of our lives. In fact, I will be here the entire summer so you don't have to do telephone interviews or fly me out. I will just drive to your office for the screener." And she did drive to the office for both screeners she got. (It goes without saying that she worked in this market during her 1L summer.) So this strategy is not guaranteed to get you a job.
The problem is that the current market for entry-level attorneys is SPS. These secondary markets typically have a very small number of SA slots, and you're competing with people who are #1 at the local T1 and other T14 graduates (many of whom have better grades) who also want to come home. In my friend's case, it appeared that they could easily fill their SA classes with students from the local T1 who were born and raised in the area who had all their family in the area, so they viewed a median HYS student who owned a home as still too much of a flight risk.
So yes, do everything that this earlier posted suggested, but don't assume that it will get you a job. Be prepared to bid MFH as a backup, because these secondary markets are insanely competitive. |
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Date: September 26th, 2015 4:08 PM Author: hideous heaven toaster cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2787989&forum_id=2#28842730) |
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Date: January 21st, 2015 9:39 PM Author: Irate flatulent associate plaza Lol at people thinking he can automatically get V100 ITT. Noap. Even at Col only like 65% of people get biglaw these days. Bottom third white dude has pretty low shot at biglaw. At N and Chi it's closer to 50%. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2787989&forum_id=2#27161214) |
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Date: September 25th, 2015 3:49 PM Author: Magenta range Improved my grades but only marginally, got multiple V50 offers in NY but nothing from two CBs in home market. Going to stay here for now and just see what happens. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2787989&forum_id=2#28836637) |