Volokh -- the University has a Code of Conduct.
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Poast new message in this thread
Date: March 10th, 2015 9:35 PM Author: Irradiated french chef
kristy.baker
8:25 PM EDT
Volokh -- the University has a Code of Conduct. THAT is what ruled here, not the US Constitution. It's perfectly legal and who'd want their child to attend a University without such a code?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27466650) |
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Date: March 11th, 2015 11:25 AM Author: Big heaven
word, everyone's always in advocacy mode and no one can have an honest conversation.
and hardly anyone realizes this! they think they're doing "NUANCED (fuck me) CRITICAL THINKING", but no, their reptilian/shitlib brains are actually conditioned to frantically spew some unintentionally sophistic bullshit whenever presented with a counterpoint. everyone's always way too sure and no one takes a second to question their own premises and/or logic.
the only differences between the fox/reptile crowd and the gawker/shitlib crowd are their conclusions, the appalling "thought" processes are the same
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27469450) |
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Date: March 10th, 2015 10:10 PM Author: stimulating cyan piazza
To be fair,
You can see their point about how a contractual provision overrides the constitution?
Because it really takes that extra bump up to a 110 IQ to realize that if state actors could just contract their way out of constitutional limitations, they would always do it and the Bill of Rights would be rendered totally meaningless?
There's no other way to slice this pie brother: failing to immediately grasp that incredibly obvious point = shitthought.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27466955) |
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Date: March 10th, 2015 10:14 PM Author: stimulating cyan piazza
To be fair,
That's fair, and I don't think that's nearly as stupid, frankly. There's a level of nuance there that wouldn't necessarily be immediately obvious to someone who isn't used to thinking about private v. public distinctions.
But based on the posts copied in this thread, there seem to be a lot of liberals commenting on this article who concede that a public university is a state actor and concede that the First Amendment is therefore potentially implicated, but nevertheless argue that it's overriden here because the university has adopted a "Code of Conduct".
That's fucking horrifying.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27466997) |
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Date: March 10th, 2015 10:21 PM Author: stimulating cyan piazza
To be fair,
That's pretty bad too, but I can also forgive that on some level because there are exceptions and carve outs for species of speech that isn't protected (direct threats) or is subject to less stringent protection (commercial speech), and there are semi-reasonable normative public policy arguments for why hate speech should be one such exception. I don't agree, obviously, but you don't have to be batshit insane or totally retarded to think otherwise.
You do have to be batshit insane or totally retarded to think that government institutions can just draft up a few sentences on a piece of paper and contract their way, directly with each individual citizen one at a time, around the constitutionally-imposed limitations that our society has collectively imposed on them. That literally defeats the entire purpose of enacting a Bill of Rights in the first place and goes against the very concept of Constitutional law and the amendment process, which we all learned about back in 7th grade or whatever. What the fuck.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27467075) |
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Date: March 10th, 2015 10:24 PM Author: Startling sneaky criminal bbw
there's no question you can be expelled from a university for speech that violates the code of conduct but would be protected by the first amendment outside of the university context.
if you walk up to a professor and call him a bitch ass nigger, you can be expelled. probably 1a protected otherwise (although maybe fighting words)
in other words, universities can have more stringent time place and manner restrictions than say, cities.
also the contracting around constitutional limitations is the unconstitutional conditions doctrine. i personally agree with you, but to say its settled law and that "failing to immediately grasp that incredibly obvious point = shitthought" is wrong
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27467105) |
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Date: March 10th, 2015 10:34 PM Author: stimulating cyan piazza
To be fair,
I hear you, but you're also talking about time and place restrictions. I think most laymen implicitly understand that you have a legal right to repeat the word "nigger" all you want on your porch in the middle of the day and the cops can't come arrest you just for doing that, but they can arrest you for disturbing the peace if you're screaming it out your windows at midnight, or if you're repeating it 2 inches away from someone else's face as you maddog them. And sure, public universities have more leeway in imposing time and place restrictions on speech than traditional public gathering places like a city sidewalk or a public park.
But what we're talking about in this case is *content* regulation, which is another beast entirely. It's one thing to say that I can't distribute my pamphlet during class because that's disruptive to the educational process and the school doesn't like that, and it's something else entirely to say that I can't distribute my pamphlet because it is critical of President Obama and this is a pro-Obama school. I would have thought that would be an incredibly obvious point to just about everyone with a room temperate IQ, but apparently there are a lot of folks out there who seem to think that as long as I sign a contract with the University agreeing not to criticize Obama as long as I am a student, they have every legal right to expel me if they find out that I said I didn't like his "dumbass" foreign policy while I was drinking in my dorm. That's a sobering thought.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27467194) |
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Date: March 10th, 2015 10:17 PM Author: comical shaky pit
the lulziest post on there was one calling volokh out for being a journalist who didn't get OU's side on the matter, including some comment about how OU had lawyers who undoubtedly reviewed it and could fill him in on the legal basis.
lololollololol
EDIT: Taylor Swift quoted it below. 180.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27467025) |
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Date: March 13th, 2015 1:42 PM Author: alcoholic amethyst theater stage
literally right there on the sidebar:
"About The Volokh Conspiracy
"Mostly law professors,"
This is case in point - commenter flaps his fucking mouth before stopping for one second to ignore his rage-filled hubris to see if maybe JUST MAYBE the guy he's talking to isn't a "journalist" when you know THERE IS NO REASON AT FUCKING ALL TO THINK YOU'RE SAFE IN ASSUMING A BLOGGER IS A JOURNALIST
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27483071) |
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Date: March 10th, 2015 10:46 PM Author: Marvelous crackhouse double fault
*goes to cali*
*has consensual sex but forgets to ask if it's okay to give her the D*
*is clapped in irons for violation of "yes means yes" law*
*left celebrates winning a battle in the WAR ON WOMYN(TM)*
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27467292) |
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Date: March 10th, 2015 10:47 PM Author: stimulating cyan piazza
To be fair,
If you don't think the lunatics have taken over the asylum on the left over the last few years, you've been in a coma.
(NOTE: This is not intended to be a defense of idiotic Republican bullshit, of which there is also concededly plenty these days.)
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27467300) |
Date: March 10th, 2015 9:36 PM Author: Irradiated french chef
youngmindoldbody
8:41 PM EDT
If the student commits to the code of conduct as a precondition of being admitted, the code takes precedence....it is called a contract.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27466655) |
Date: March 10th, 2015 9:36 PM Author: Irradiated french chef
kristy.baker
8:26 PM EDT
As Americans, we do have free speech WHICH also means we are not free from condemnation for such speech.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27466660) |
Date: March 10th, 2015 9:37 PM Author: Irradiated french chef
jet0001
8:09 PM EDT
Each student assumes an obligation to obey all rules and regulations made by the University... to discharge such duties as a student with diligence, fidelity, and honor. Furthermore, each student is expected to exemplify, on and off-campus, the characteristics that comprise the following core values of the University of Central Oklahoma: Character, Community, and Civility.
University of Oklahoma – Code of Conduct
1st Amendment rights are a moot point.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27466663) |
Date: March 10th, 2015 9:37 PM Author: Irradiated french chef
Kaneohe Hawaii
8:07 PM EDT
Institutions of higher learning have codes of conduct that prohibit specific behaviors. These students clearly violated that code, and they were expelled.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27466666) |
Date: March 10th, 2015 9:38 PM Author: Irradiated french chef
AsperGirl
8:05 PM EDT [Edited]
I'm sorry, but I can't agree with volokh on this one. A university isn't simply the jack-booted state, but an educational institution with honor codes. No one with behavior of such low character who acts in such a way to disgrace themselves and the school has the right to claim a First Amendment infringement case. They were singing about killing other students over race.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27466671) |
Date: March 10th, 2015 9:38 PM Author: Irradiated french chef
jedg1
7:49 PM EDT
I'd say that there's an implied threat in the line in the chant You can hang him from a tree that goes beyond simple free speech.
and that is part of the college conduct issue. isn't it.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27466677) |
Date: March 10th, 2015 9:39 PM Author: Irradiated french chef
jcrfinancial
7:45 PM EDT
THE SCHOOL HAS ACODE OF CONDUCT, SENT THEM HOME
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27466680) |
Date: March 10th, 2015 9:43 PM Author: Irradiated french chef
Dick Hamilton
7:05 PM EDT
Your kidding... right? Since when are people not accountable for the things that they say... try threatening the president if you want some experience with that. (Of course, the author wants the attention that an outrageous position will bring him...). Suggesting that the U of O cannot enforce basic civility among its students is the same reasoning that has destroyed our k-12 educational system.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27466695) |
Date: March 10th, 2015 9:44 PM Author: Irradiated french chef
Tobit
6:43 PM EDT
The UofOk Student Code of Conduct writes (emphasis mine):
Students and faculty each have responsibility for maintaining an appropriate learning environment. Students who fail to adhere to the established code of conduct may be subject to disciplinary action. Faculty have the professional responsibility to set reasonable standards and behavioral expectations for their classroom and the obligation to take the appropriate course of action when student behavior substantially interferes with the ability of a faculty member to teach or the ability of other students to learn.
The faculty member can handle most inappropriate behaviors at the time of the disruption; however, some situations may require consultation, University disciplinary action, and/or immediate emergency response. This guide has been designed by the Student Conduct Office to assist you to assess problem behavior and to determine the appropriate course of action.
http://www.ou.edu/content/eoo.html
From that page you get links to policies and procedures. All students agree to these policies and must abide by them.
This is not free speech, it is hate speech and is entirely incompatible with higher educational learning.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27466703) |
Date: March 10th, 2015 9:45 PM Author: Irradiated french chef
BobandCathy Villa
6:43 PM EDT
What Constitutional freedom of speech is---- freedom of speech IS the restriction on the government from making laws that restrict what people can say. That is it, nothing more, nothing less. Freedom of speech is NOT--the freedom to just run around and say what ever you want with no community or social consequences. It is not the freedom from being held accountable if your speech leads/causes the violation of other laws. It is not the freedom to violate community standards/codes of conduct of a community/entity/group you are voluntarily associated with and voluntarily agree to by having that association. This has nothing to with Freedom of Speech and NOTHING in the Constitution protects your speech from any consequences other than those issued by the federal government.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27466714) |
Date: March 10th, 2015 9:47 PM Author: Duck-like Toaster Jap
paosting in support.
people are idiots.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27466731) |
Date: March 10th, 2015 9:47 PM Author: Irradiated french chef
Cat Fud
5:52 PM EDT
This isn't a case of the Government penalizing its citizens for their speech (or exercising prior censorship of it). It's a case of a university taking action against students. Nobody has an inherent right to student body membership in a particular university, just as nobody has an inherent right to employment at a particular corporation. Both are privileges, and both are contingent on adherence to the rules established by each. This is no Constitutional issue.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27466733) |
Date: March 10th, 2015 9:47 PM Author: Irradiated french chef
Ashley Scott
5:48 PM EDT
President Boren was totally within his limits to expel them. Do you know what a Code of Conduct is?
I'm a student at OU, and I had to sign one. We sign them because we are (supposed to be) responsible adults attending a public university, and have to represent both our college and community as such. Those guys had to sign one. And what they did blatantly violated the contract. Boren isn't overreaching at all - had he expelled all of the members on that bus, he would have been. But that's not what he did.
Do a little research before posting garbage like this, please.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27466736) |
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Date: March 10th, 2015 9:48 PM Author: Irradiated french chef
TwelveInchPianist
5:57 PM EDT
Do a little research before posting garbage like this, please.
Do a little research, provide some court cases supporting his proposition that universities can't discipline students based on their speech? Um, he did that. You think a prof of first amendment law hasn't done a little research on the first amendment? Maybe you do some research?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27466739) |
Date: March 10th, 2015 9:48 PM Author: Irradiated french chef
kfreed
5:21 PM EDT
I notice that racist conservative/libertarians such as Volokh are quick to claim the right of free speech when it comes to racists promoting violence (the promotion of lynching certainly qualifies). Yes, Volokh, a university has a duty to maintain order and to provide a safe environment for all students. Aren't you libertarians the very same individuals claiming that money is speech and therefore buying elections is perfectly legit? Well, I've got news for you. Decent people will be damned before we allow your racist ilk to suggest that free speech extends to terrorizing kids on college campuses.
We also note, that your free speech pearl clutching doesn't extend to those expressing rather mild criticism of whites: Eugene Volokh Slams Salon for Printing Racist Screed Against White Belly Dancers http://newsbusters.org/blogs/ken-shepherd/2014/03/...
Can it, Volokh.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27466742) |
Date: March 10th, 2015 9:50 PM Author: Orchid private investor genital piercing
The fucking hubris of these people, to be so ADAMANT in their ridiculous reasoning, is just infuriating.
I assume Volokh will write an update addressing the code of conduct BS.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27466755) |
Date: March 10th, 2015 9:50 PM Author: Irradiated french chef
squier13
4:33 PM EDT
First Amendment arguments are irrelevant, the guys agreed to a code of conduct, which every university has, and they broke the agreement. You break the rules, you get kicked out. Simple.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27466764) |
Date: March 10th, 2015 9:51 PM Author: Irradiated french chef
Khal Spencer
4:40 PM EDT
Here is OU's Conduct code. The students are entitled to contest this expulsion and were given, at last time I checked, till Friday to file a response. Plus, conduct codes at public universities cannot violate Constitutional protections. Protections at private colleges are not as robust.
http://www.ou.edu/content/dam/studentlife/documents/AllCampusStudentCode.pdf
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27466769) |
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Date: March 10th, 2015 10:05 PM Author: Sooty resort digit ratio
hmm
"Student Rights
Students of the University of Oklahoma are guaranteed certain rights by the Constitutions of the United States and the State of Oklahoma and the University of Oklahoma Student Association. Those documents are controlling and any questions of student rights must be decided on the language contained in those documents."
but there is a CODE OF CONDUCT!!!
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27466907) |
Date: March 10th, 2015 9:52 PM Author: Irradiated french chef
Blue Ravioli
4:21 PM EDT
First, I believe that most universities have rules of comportment that all students must agree to when they enroll. Schools also have agreements with fraternities and sororities (that are often ignored, but they do exist.)
Second, this is not a racist slip-of-the-tongue, or an elementary racist rant, this is practiced and repeated hate speech. Pledging to not only keep African Americans out of the fraternity, but to lynch them? This kind of mentality goes hand in hand with the denial about campus rape. A Duke fraternity is now suspended during investigation because of an alleged gang rape. Sue if you wish, but don't be surprised if the dirty laundry of the nationwide fraternity is placed in full view all over the nation - the Oklahoma incident will pale in comparison.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27466780) |
Date: March 10th, 2015 9:53 PM Author: Irradiated french chef
rc95959
4:07 PM EDT
The mans job is to have a safe environment at school, you didnt need 10 paragraphs to come to conclusion that these racist idiots were creating the potential for violence towards them from others. This article is complete garbage. Im tired of people parroting this ridiculous notion that the 1st amendment protects you from consequences of your speech, when it flat out doesnt. We obviously have limitations and hate speech is not always protected so that line was also completely false.
You cant just always hide behind the 1st amendment. Being in a college is not some inherent right so it can be taken away. There is incredible consistency with regards to this in the USA. My employer can fire me for things I say and a college can expel you for things you say. I just cant imagine how the authors claim that the President cant expel these morons would ever stand up in Court.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27466786) |
Date: March 10th, 2015 9:53 PM Author: Irradiated french chef
Joe Miller
4:15 PM EDT
Your employer can fire you for things you say while at work because legally your employer has complete control over what you can and can not say. Just as a University has complete control what can and can not be said in the course of an education. This speech clearly does not fall under this category. Never did the author state that there would be no consequences for the students speech, just that it was out of the governments ability to add to those consequences.
Please read and understand, this will help you in the future.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27466787) |
Date: March 10th, 2015 9:53 PM Author: Irradiated french chef
keithrjackson
3:59 PM EDT [Edited]
This article seems not very thought out. From how I always looked at the First Amendment it protects individuals from being put in jail or prosecuted for speech. It says nothing about right to employment or right to go to a specific school. If I got caught on tape saying such things, I would totally expect there to be repercussions at my job, especially if things said were while performing my job, just as these kids were part of the frat that is part of the school they are being thrown out of.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27466789) |
Date: March 10th, 2015 9:54 PM Author: Irradiated french chef
Cat Fud
3:52 PM EDT
There was no prior censorship, and enrollment in a university is a privilege, not a constitutional right. These jerks couldn't be arrested for singing that while they marched down the sidewalk. But they can sure as hell be bounced from OU.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27466797) |
Date: March 10th, 2015 9:55 PM Author: Irradiated french chef
OldRafe
3:17 PM EDT
The first amendment applies to government: Congress shall make no law.... I don't understand the automatic extension of this to a university, public or otherwise. Not everyone can be a student at the universtiy. You need academic credtis to enter, you have to pass courses, you have to obey university rules, such as not giving test answers to other people And if you don't do those things the university has the right to expel you. In expelling those frat boys the university is not limiting their speech or putting them in jail for speaking. It is just saying that that kind of conduct does not belong in the university. Seems to ome that's the institution's right, just as it is my right to ask a visitor to leave my home if he makes comments that offend me.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27466809) |
Date: March 10th, 2015 9:56 PM Author: Irradiated french chef
DeMarcus Ibdul Jackson
3:10 PM EDT
I'm sure that the lawyers for the University would differ significantly in their view of the applicable law in this case. Did the author of this essay bother to contact them for their position on the matter? Or is this just a one sided speculative take on the University's handling of this case without full information on the case?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27466815) |
Date: March 10th, 2015 9:57 PM Author: Irradiated french chef
Patternity tester
3:00 PM EDT
It's nice how so many people come out with great concern for the free speech rights of bigoted, overprivileged college kids. The yawns in response to the DOJ report documenting targeted citation bias toward poor and African-American residents in Ferguson, Missouri were deafening.
It is not enough to pick and choose which people you want to defend. There is a moral imperative to prioritize among the many injustices those who are treated the most unfairly and are harmed the greatest. By that standard, I'll sadly never get around in my lifetime to defending the free speech rights of the racist frat boys. Not that free speech rights should not extend to everyone ... but greater injustices need to be dealt with first.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27466821) |
Date: March 10th, 2015 9:58 PM Author: Irradiated french chef
TS1231
2:43 PM EDT
You could certainly argue that they're yelling Fire in a crowded theater.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27466836) |
Date: March 10th, 2015 9:59 PM Author: Irradiated french chef
trytruth
2:39 PM EDT
People. Freedom to speak on/sing your hatred, write on your willful ignorance is still in tact. But that does NOT negate the CONSEQUENCES that may result when the intent of your choices harm or hurt others. To believe otherwise takes a great deal of arrogance and belief in privilege.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27466841) |
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Date: March 10th, 2015 10:18 PM Author: Sooty resort digit ratio
you have the
FREEDOM
to say whatever the fuck you want
but of course you aren't free from getting
PUNISHED
for exercising that freedom
when you are saying something like this
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27467036) |
Date: March 10th, 2015 10:05 PM Author: Irradiated french chef
Roger Wilco
2:39 PM EDT
I find it mind numbing that there is all this talk about racist white fraternities who don't let black people in, while they completely ignore that most black fraternities refuse to let whites in. These fraternities exist on every campus across this country and we've been just fine so far. Obviously these complainers haven't figured out that to be free you must have choices in life, and sometimes people may choose to be among their own kind whether you like it or not.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27466906) |
Date: March 10th, 2015 10:06 PM Author: Irradiated french chef
Matt Story
2:39 PM EDT
This piece is built on the premise that public universities have no authority to punish students for anything that is not expressly forbidden by the U.S. Constitution. And that premise is ridiculous -- laughable, even. This writer's understanding of Constitutional law is on par with that of the 12-year-olds I used to work with who thought that free speech meant I couldn't punish them for calling their classmates names.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27466910) |
Date: March 10th, 2015 10:08 PM Author: Irradiated french chef
(Her avatar features the words NOT ON OUR CAMPUS)
Becky Ford
2:25 PM EDT
He can expel them if they have violated the Student Code of Conduct. I'm sure their actions have met the minimum standard for expulsion.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27466936) |
Date: March 10th, 2015 10:09 PM Author: Irradiated french chef
heirloomtomato
2:16 PM EDT
You think he's not allowed to do it? He just did. The little bigots can contest their expulsion with the University's Equal Opportunity Officer. Given that they just cost the college $$ since football players are now shunning UO, I eagerly invited them to contest it. It's time for the rude awakening to these cretins: black football players are more valuable to the university than little white racist boys and that is that.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27466950) |
Date: March 10th, 2015 10:12 PM Author: Irradiated french chef
Jim Samuel
2:08 PM EDT
Where in the Constitution does it say that we have a right to free speech without consequence?
I've always understood that the First Amendment says that the government may not prevent up from expressing opinion. I have never seen anything in the Constitution that says we may not be held accountable for our speech, or pay a price for what we say.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27466987) |
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Date: March 10th, 2015 10:14 PM Author: Duck-like Toaster Jap
Shit like this:
" I have never seen anything in the Constitution..."
when he knows damn well he's never read the Constitution jfc
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27466996) |
Date: March 10th, 2015 10:13 PM Author: Irradiated french chef
David M. Higgins
2:04 PM EDT
Forget about 'Racist Speech' these Frat Boys should be JAILED for Incitement to MURDER by publicly advocating LYNCHING N**gers
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27466991) |
Date: March 10th, 2015 10:15 PM Author: Irradiated french chef
theplaintruth1
2:01 PM EDT
the GOP and the Tea Party have been doing everything they can to promote racism in the United States since President Obama was elected. You simply have to google Tea Party racism, or GOP racism and click images to see their terror troops in action. Shame on the GOP and tea party for promoting racism in this great nation.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27467006) |
Date: March 10th, 2015 10:16 PM Author: Irradiated french chef
T-Prop
1:50 PM EDT
Nice article there, Eugene.
Guess What?
They're expelled.
L.O.L.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27467014) |
Date: March 10th, 2015 10:17 PM Author: Irradiated french chef
JASinAZ
1:26 PM EDT
Since govt is not punishing the speech as sedition there is no constitutional issue involve, though this isn't going to stop those who take unsupported broad views of it that even ignore the words Congress shall make no law....
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27467029) |
Date: March 10th, 2015 10:28 PM Author: swashbuckling friendly grandma
All time top 100 thread. It is great to see everybody come together to laugh at retards.
Somebody should send this link to Eugene, so he doesn't kill himself in despair for the human race.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27467142) |
Date: March 10th, 2015 10:29 PM Author: Irradiated french chef
jpferg1
12:24 PM EDT
When did codes of conduct become irrelevant? Publish their names and photos. Make a mandatory course for inter-racial dialogue, include the history of the KKK and Jim Crow lynchings in Freshman History classes. And don't charter any organization that refuses anyone based on race. None of this would be injurious to their constitutional rights. It would, in fact, be a part of an educational mission.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27467159) |
Date: March 10th, 2015 10:32 PM Author: Irradiated french chef
Kevin Lawrence
12:19 PM EDT [Edited]
Post the frat members' names online and let society deal with these True Gentlemen--and the families that raised them--accordingly.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27467176) |
Date: March 10th, 2015 10:32 PM Author: Irradiated french chef
Germantowner
12:11 PM EDT
I think they can and should be expelled. What the government can't do is silence them. But the 1st Amendment does not mean there are no consequences for all speech.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27467183) |
Date: March 10th, 2015 10:33 PM Author: Irradiated french chef
H_was_Clark
12:39 PM EDT
Always amusing to see the lengths some commenters will go to on this blog to defend racist (and saying this is racist is pulling it mildly - it hearkens back to one of the uglier chapters in American history) bilge.
On another note, at least this event answers the question about where so many in the GOP were on the day of the Selma commemorations.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27467188) |
Date: March 10th, 2015 10:36 PM Author: Irradiated french chef
TheTruthteller
9:18 PM EDT
We need a new amendment to the Constitution which prohibits hate speech then.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27467208) |
Date: March 10th, 2015 10:38 PM Author: Irradiated french chef
youngmindoldbody
8:32 PM EDT [Edited]
Should the university have kept quiet and this free speech escalate into something more serious or criminal, the university and its officers would find themselves as defendants in a civil or criminal lawsuit. OU did the right thing to protect itself...the same thing any private institution or business would do in similar circumstances.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27467219) |
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Date: March 10th, 2015 10:45 PM Author: mahogany talented ticket booth
"same thing as any private institution or business would do in this situation.."
/facepalm
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27467286) |
Date: March 11th, 2015 9:38 AM Author: dashing rehab
good word xo - just as I was logging on this morning I was thinking, why do I spend my time on xo, and then I came across this thread
*wipes tear*
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27469057) |
Date: March 11th, 2015 9:57 AM Author: beta address
A 180 to Volokh, WaPo, Taylor Swift, and XO for coming together to let retards respond to a Constitutional Scholar then get roasted on a completely different forum.
The internet is weird.
I'm half surprised each "bad post" isn't linked to a facebook account here so I can see who is posting all this retarded crap.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27469136) |
Date: March 11th, 2015 10:06 AM Author: Misunderstood cordovan halford
As a liberal who is not retarded, I will say that the OU president knew 100% that what he was doing wasn't constitutional but he did it anyway, either because he thought that he wouldn't get sued, or because he was willing to lose to get good publicity for the school.
That being said, this thread is pretty funny. Always amusing to see what the geniuses of internet commentary have to say about constitutional law.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27469156) |
Date: March 11th, 2015 12:00 PM Author: Fuchsia multi-colored toilet seat
The University has legitimate mission to fashion and execute an educational mission; which, includes the decision to choose and enforce an inclusive cultural environment as between the members of its graduate and undergraduate student bodies; its faculty and staffs. In the balancing test as between the possible conflicting objectives of the desire of certain members of those student bodies to promote an exclusive cultural environment, by their speech or their actions; the University may properly sanction them; up to, and including their removal from the University community.
The basis for this simply that the University is an organized sub-set of the larger society which has a legitimate programmatic interest in the fashioning and executing its vision of its purpose, its reason for being. It is a mission specific/mission focused enterprise. And it gets to decide how it shall organize itself and execute its mission(s). And ultimately it is to be granted great deference in the choices that it makes; and, its assertions of legitimate linkages or nexuses between its self-defined mission(s) and the cultural architecture it chooses to implement and operate.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27469577)
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Date: March 11th, 2015 12:56 PM Author: high-end windowlicker
Sagae
3/10/2015 5:10 PM EDT
I'd actually like to see male students expelled for hurling catcalls at women. That goes on a lot and is truly threatening and scary. Most cat calls are threats of rape ("I'd like to . . . ")
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27469829) |
Date: March 11th, 2015 6:52 PM Author: Adventurous navy love of her life affirmative action
Elie Mystttal has to chime in insisting that the stupid racist song sung for fun on a bus full of white people was an actual threat which was both intended to be a threat and perceived by the targets to be a threat.
http://www.atlredline.com/and-now-for-the-inevitable-white-people-defense-of-sae-1690821859
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27472018) |
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Date: March 11th, 2015 7:29 PM Author: Sooty resort digit ratio
holy fuck
"Now, I get how a white listener wouldn't take the threat as a true threat....But that's not really an objective reading of the situation, at least if we dispense with the notion that the white perspective is the only objective one....In fact, I'm getting pretty sick of white people telling me how I'm supposed to perceive threats from white people....The threat of being beat up or worse by a mob of angry white people is REAL.....Yes, the lynching song was a "true threat." The fact that I have to argue about it makes it all the more terrifying.
prior to this, i thought elie mystal was a white feminist attorney. I've heard the name, but don't remember anything stupid associated with him. but this is a black guy? who graduated from Harvard? who has the fucking nerve to argue this bullshit? what a fucking moron.
arguing that this song is a "true threat" is as offensive as the song itself, just in different ways. mystal should be ashamed.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27472257)
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Date: March 12th, 2015 9:36 AM Author: Heady box office haunted graveyard
LJL @ a bunch of xo aspies feeling superior to "regular" people because you happen to be lawyers.
You idiots aren't smarter than anyone else, you just happen to understand the nuances of the law because you're lawyers.
This is a board on haji h several people SERIOUSLY debated the question of where fat goes where one loses weight and several people argued against the conservation of mass or had to have it explained to them. You don't display a high level of understanding of ANYTHING not related to the law. Can you imagine what people from a science or medicine would think if they read this thread? They would be calling *you* the 100 IQ idiots.
Laughing at a bunch of laypeople for not "getting" the one thing in your life you understand to a high degree because you've spent years studying it is just douchey and explains why there are so many "I'm 27 and have no friends - how can I change this?" threads
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27475305) |
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Date: March 13th, 2015 1:10 PM Author: Adventurous navy love of her life affirmative action
Right, people do not have a vested interest (or should not) in arguing about where fat goes.
I know a little science and I assume fat is metabolized and by products are pissed out or released from breathing. But if I am wrong and someone tells me differently then I am happy to learn the truth.
Lawyers SHOULD develop a way or thinking where you can see issues outside of your own perspective and prejudices. Without worrying about specific knowledge most non lawyer idiots and some lawyer idiots are incapable of using their brains this way.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27482875) |
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Date: March 13th, 2015 1:43 PM Author: Stirring cobalt stag film
I am going to assume your premise is correct that it violates the Constitution and then say WHO GIVES A FUCK.
OK. He violated the Constitution. What is the penalty? Is he going to First Amendment jail?
No. The answer, of course, is that the students who believe their Constitutional rights were violated can sue. Except, guess what. They fucking won't.
The President did the prudent thing. Sometimes you need to violate the Constitution. The Civil Rights movement did it. The Anti-War movement did it. The suffragettes did it.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27483076) |
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Date: March 13th, 2015 1:52 PM Author: Stirring cobalt stag film
Rosa Parks wasn't constitutionally permitted to sit in the front of the bus, yet she did reptile.
You have a fucking point in here?
What is your argument? That he violated the Constitution or that he can't/shouldn't violate the Constitution. Because if it is the latter, reality tells us you are fucking WRONG.
In fact, let's tease this out. 2 workers work in the DOJ. 1 of the worker calls the other worker the n word. Now, can the DOJ fire that worker?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27483135) |
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Date: March 13th, 2015 1:53 PM Author: stimulating cyan piazza
To be fair,
Women's Sufferage Movement: expanded civil liberties for Americans.
Civil Rights Movement: expanded civil liberties for Americans.
Anti-War Movement: expanded civil liberties for Americans.
Pushing for a broad "hate speech" carve-out to 1A protection: ...seriosly diminishes civil liberties for Americans.
Go fuck yourself in the face. Seriously. I mean that from the bottom of my heart, because idiots like you are a huge part of the problem.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27483144) |
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Date: March 13th, 2015 2:11 PM Author: stimulating cyan piazza
To be fair,
Since you asked me to be clear, your idiocy goes far deeper than I bothered to address in my prior post. But since you asked...
The Women's Sufferage Movement didn't "violate" the constitution for any number of reasons--including that (1) the women who pushed for an Amendment giving them the vote didn't take unconstitutional actions (in fact, marching and protesting for non-violent political purposes is expressly constitutionally *protected* activity, last time I checked), and (2) even if they had taken actions that would have violated the constitution had they been state actors (they didn't), *they still weren't state actors*. You seem dumb, so I'll stop here to remind you that the Constitution only imposes restrictions on state actors, not on private citizens. I know that's a difficult concept but try to remember that point.
The same analysis applies to the Civil Rights Movement. See if you can think really, really hard and figure out why. (Hint: even if the Civil Rights protestors were state actors--and again, they were not--violating state laws mandating segregation =! violating federal constitutional provisions. Look up "federalism" while you're at it.)
And likewise for the Anti-War Movement.
So again, to be clear, that's why you're a fucking idiot from a purely legal perspective: none of the movements that you attempted to draw analogies to actually involved "Constitution [sic] violations" in the first place, for the numerous independent reasons listed above.
But you're also a fucking idiot from a normative perspective, because even if we assumed purely for the sake of argument that those three movements did involve "Constitution [sic] violations," the operative principle that I have expressed for why they would still not be analogous to the push for a broad hate-speech carveout isn't just because "well I like those and I don't like this." The distinction is that the end results of those movements extended legal rights that already existed for at least part of the U.S. population prior to those movements--the freedom to vote in federal elections, the freedom to live under a government that does not discriminate against you on the basis of your ethnicity, and the freedom not to be conscripted into military service against your will--to new groups that have not previously enjoy those freedoms. In other words, the purpose of those movements was to extend pre-existing freedoms so that more people would enjoy more freedom from government restrictions.
By contrast, the push to ban broad "hate speech" demonstrably and inarguably *limits* the freedom of expression that all Americans have previously enjoyed, and gives the government *more* power to place restrictions on the citizenry under threat of punishment by the power of the state.
That's a principled distinction based on a clearly-defined legal principle, and responding to that argument by pretending that I just happen to like those three movements and I just happen not to like this one because that's how I "feel" (with the implication that I'm an inconsistent kneejerk hypocrite) is disingenuous at best and straight up idiotic at worst.
And now that I've explained all of the ways in which you're a fucking idiot, please resume fucking yourself in the face.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27483273) |
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Date: March 13th, 2015 1:57 PM Author: stimulating cyan piazza
To be fair,
CR. "Who gives a fuck if some cops go around beating up citizens and stealing their money during bogus 'traffic stops,' the reality is that we need cops and at the end of the day people will continue to support them because we need them to protect us from criminals, so big whoop if some of them 'violate' the Constitution sometimes, no one is going to do shit about it."
OH, WHAT SCHOLARSHIP!
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2827065&forum_id=2#27483177) |
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