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CCNP vs UT for Texas BIGLAW?
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Date: March 31st, 2015 3:48 PM Author: Overrated theatre (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2843247&forum_id=2#27589143) |
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Date: March 31st, 2015 8:09 PM Author: carmine degenerate turdskin There are only a few from CCN becuase CCN typically doesn't want to go to TX because they are all shitlibs and texas is conservahero (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2843247&forum_id=2#27590832) |
Date: March 31st, 2015 4:01 PM Author: well-lubricated electric regret boltzmann Texas is alright but if you strike out in tx from ut you're more fucked than if you strike out in tx from ccnp because ccnp opens way more other markets (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2843247&forum_id=2#27589214) |
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Date: March 31st, 2015 4:24 PM Author: Overrated theatre (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2843247&forum_id=2#27589390) |
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Date: March 31st, 2015 4:58 PM Author: Overrated theatre (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2843247&forum_id=2#27589667) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2015 7:35 AM Author: cracking garrison Ok h/o (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2843247&forum_id=2#27601374) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2015 3:48 PM Author: Overrated theatre (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2843247&forum_id=2#27603956) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2015 5:17 PM Author: Overrated theatre (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2843247&forum_id=2#27604546) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2015 8:08 PM Author: cracking garrison Go to CCN. The future of the Houston market is with transplanted talent - look at all of work flooding in from NYC, Chicago and LA. The legal trend follows the banking trend about 15 years earlier (fraudlie enron anchoring fake money casino greed chest puffing bankers' move to Houston), and it's been pretty successful so far. If you are doing transactional work, your future client relationships will most likely come from people who did UT ugrad Plan II (sorry you missed the boat there) or elite b-schools/ugrad from outside Texas. These are the young guys who are killing it in energy and you should be focusing on putting yourself in the best position to work with them in the future. The really old school Texas guys already put their network together based on your father's country club or oil patch, so you're not getting in there anyway. Move on from this thought. The name UT doesn't mean a lot and your finance clients will rather see a legit law school like C. Although the river oaks, memorial, hcc etc. crowd will always have its day, large organizations in Houston are actually a lot more meritocratic than you would think.
Assuming you are decent socially, you should be able to place both of your summers in Houston, which for the most part offers split summers. Use those summers to make friends and network, particularly with UT people, doing the first half of both at ole V&E. If you are more of a lifestyle bro, use the second half at one of the chill Houston firms, meet some bros and have a great time. Regardless of whether you go to V&E, frazzled, scampering, almost Doobs-ian Baker Botts, or some chill, genteel, landed gentry bigtex stoic moneygrab firm, all the people you worked with during the summer will scattershot around the city and you'll have a decent de facto legal network of 100 or so people across your 3 different firms. In any case, I would not recommend going with a carpetbagger that does the full summer program because (with some exceptions) those offices and their dork scam laterals are not as big in the Houston scene, except for their relationships with people at their old firms, of which you are not a part.
If this thread was in any way related to the Dallas market then you're a fuckin commmercial real estate wannabe loser who deserves nothing better than that smugfart-ridden hellhole and I hope W guns you down in Preston Hollow because OHDIDUGOTOSAINTMARKS???DIDU>?? Fuckin Dallas |
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Date: April 2nd, 2015 9:37 PM Author: Overrated theatre (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2843247&forum_id=2#27606622) |
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Date: April 3rd, 2015 1:00 AM Author: cracking garrison It's not but CRE and O&G DOMINATE the Highland Park social scene (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2843247&forum_id=2#27608459) |
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Date: April 3rd, 2015 1:42 AM Author: Overrated theatre (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2843247&forum_id=2#27608717) |
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Date: April 3rd, 2015 1:10 PM Author: cracking garrison You'll build your career off your social life at any age man, if you're not drinking in bars it will be somewhere else. Good luck (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2843247&forum_id=2#27610887) |
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Date: April 3rd, 2015 5:51 PM Author: Overrated theatre (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2843247&forum_id=2#27613622) |
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Date: April 3rd, 2015 6:15 PM Author: cracking garrison Bro. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2843247&forum_id=2#27613787) |
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Date: March 31st, 2015 4:59 PM Author: chestnut impertinent jewess messiness Princeton doesn't have a law school. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2843247&forum_id=2#27589675) |
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Date: March 31st, 2015 4:59 PM Author: crusty locale death wish Is there a difference in cost? Will you pay less to stay in Texas? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2843247&forum_id=2#27589679) |
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Date: March 31st, 2015 5:01 PM Author: Overrated theatre (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2843247&forum_id=2#27589692) |
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Date: March 31st, 2015 5:04 PM Author: crusty locale death wish Matriculating to UT if you want to stay in Texas certainly isn't a bad choice. It's hard to call picking any law school a *great* choice. No matter where you go, you'll have a long road ahead of you. At least at UT, you'll be travelling that road where you want to be. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2843247&forum_id=2#27589719) |
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Date: March 31st, 2015 5:25 PM Author: Overrated theatre (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2843247&forum_id=2#27589904) |
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Date: April 1st, 2015 3:37 PM Author: crusty locale death wish You seem wise for your years. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2843247&forum_id=2#27596256) |
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Date: March 31st, 2015 5:03 PM Author: Aquamarine soul-stirring athletic conference what about uva? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2843247&forum_id=2#27589718) |
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Date: March 31st, 2015 8:22 PM Author: Irradiated violent base UVA used to be TCR for southern cities IF you copped a scholarship. their placement into biglol post 2008 is not great anymore. they are on michigan/d00k level. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2843247&forum_id=2#27590909) |
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Date: March 31st, 2015 5:05 PM Author: Geriatric spectacular plaza I'm a CCN grad working in Houston. My firm has a strong preference for Ut grads. Basically we hire as though UT was on par with the very best schools. If you are 100% set on staying in Tx then it makes sense, but if you don't do well, you could end up in shitlaw. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2843247&forum_id=2#27589732) |
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Date: March 31st, 2015 5:11 PM Author: Overrated theatre (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2843247&forum_id=2#27589792) |
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Date: March 31st, 2015 5:14 PM Author: Geriatric spectacular plaza I work for BigTex. Any firm with an established Houston office is going to have the same thing because half the partners are UT grads. I can't really speak to the more recent offices like Latham or K&E but those aren't very big outposts. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2843247&forum_id=2#27589819) |
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Date: March 31st, 2015 5:21 PM Author: Overrated theatre (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2843247&forum_id=2#27589873) |
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Date: March 31st, 2015 5:25 PM Author: Geriatric spectacular plaza I had no connection to Texas but had no trouble copping callbacks and offers. I just said that I was a rootless drifter with no connections anywhere and was ready to settle down and breed with the wife. And Texas seemed like a great place to do it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2843247&forum_id=2#27589905) |
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Date: March 31st, 2015 5:30 PM Author: Overrated theatre (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2843247&forum_id=2#27589945) |
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Date: March 31st, 2015 5:31 PM Author: Geriatric spectacular plaza Big law loves marrieds. Marrieds with kids are even better bc they know you will eat a ton of shit bc you have responsibilities. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2843247&forum_id=2#27589953) |
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Date: March 31st, 2015 5:39 PM Author: Overrated theatre (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2843247&forum_id=2#27589993) |
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Date: March 31st, 2015 5:43 PM Author: Geriatric spectacular plaza Maybe. I would definitely have better connections in Texas but I've got a couple small clients that came from my own law school days. Generally speaking it's better to be part of the tribe though. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2843247&forum_id=2#27589999) |
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Date: March 31st, 2015 5:53 PM Author: Overrated theatre (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2843247&forum_id=2#27590054) |
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Date: March 31st, 2015 8:23 PM Author: Irradiated violent base lol, wut? biglaw has a huge age bias, like banking etc. because people with families and kids like to spend time with them. single people are the ones who want to work all night because they aren't missing out on anything. takes a special type of sociopath to want to work 90 hrs/week when htey have a baby. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2843247&forum_id=2#27590920) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2015 2:03 AM Author: Overrated theatre (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2843247&forum_id=2#27600680) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2015 7:03 AM Author: Geriatric spectacular plaza (Clueless) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2843247&forum_id=2#27601343) |
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Date: April 3rd, 2015 11:36 AM Author: Zombie-like razzle chapel foreskin Marriage is an important part of getting ahead. It lets people know you're not a homo. A married guy seems more stable. People see the ring, they think "at least somebody can stand the son of a bitch". Ladies see the ring, they know immediately you must have some cash or your cock must work. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2843247&forum_id=2#27610177) |
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Date: March 31st, 2015 5:30 PM Author: Motley lettuce If you aren't top quarter at UT you're fucked for biglaw unless you have a separate hook (e.g. hot girl, dad's a judge, super rich kid who seems like a sure bet to make rain, etc.) At CCN it used to be relatively common to get biglaw from the bottom half of the class with legit Texas ties (yours don't sound totally legit, though). These days I gather it's more like top half. But I depart from bort consensus on this subject, as I still think CCN provides a measurable prestige bump later on, and I'm an old, so I've seen it in action. The biggest difference I notice is that CCNers seem to have more luck rebounding from lathamings and flake outs (e.g. leaving law from a few years to chase whatever dream, then coming back). I think it's probably still plausible to do this from UT, but I know more people that have actually pulled it off from CCN. Could be self-selection of less chill/less fratty students, but still seems like a meaningful safety net v. kids at UT who get shitty first year grades and are seemingly shut out of the most competitive jobs. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2843247&forum_id=2#27589948) |
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Date: March 31st, 2015 5:55 PM Author: Overrated theatre (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2843247&forum_id=2#27590063) |
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Date: March 31st, 2015 8:05 PM Author: obsidian jet-lagged forum unless you were an accountant or an engineer, your pre-law work experience is pretty much useless as a hook.
They'll just measure you by the school and class rank like everyone else. |
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Date: April 3rd, 2015 1:58 AM Author: poppy market the whole discussion becomes meaningless once you say "oh i assume i'm going to do well and i wouldn't go to law school if i thought i'd get bad grades."
holding cost of attendance equal, the expected value of a person attending columbia is higher than the expected value of that same person attending UT, by a not insignificant amount. that, along with personal lifestyle factors, is pretty much all there is to evaluate.
if you remove it from the equation by saying "oh well i have a high appetite for risk" then there's nothing left to discuss. the question becomes "if you were me and had all the life experiences that i have and knew the people i know and liked the things i like, would you prefer to live in new york/chicago or austin for the next three years?"
why not instead start the thread: "time traveling BB/V&E/B&J associate who chose UT over CCNP taking questions from the future"? |
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Date: March 31st, 2015 8:00 PM Author: Marvelous theater If you don't have ties, not a chance in hell of getting TX biglaw from CCN. Knew people in top 25-15% who bid it and didn't get it.
Knew a bro about Top third who got Baker Botts but not V&E. |
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Date: March 31st, 2015 8:09 PM Author: poppy market texas biglaw went very deep into the class at HYS, where most firms were essentially grade indifferent. anecdotally it seemed similar for CCN.
UT dominates in absolute numbers but if you are bottom half you're fucked.
caveat, any first or second hand experience i had with this was many moons ago. but my guess is texas biglaw firms have not loosened their grade requirements for UT in the wake of ITE, rather the opposite. |
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Date: March 31st, 2015 8:11 PM Author: bat-shit-crazy crimson keepsake machete church building I have no idea about UT, but could UT help you with other Southern cities (in particular Atlanta) in comparison with your other options? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2843247&forum_id=2#27590838) |
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Date: March 31st, 2015 8:17 PM Author: Overrated theatre (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2843247&forum_id=2#27590884) |
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Date: March 31st, 2015 8:25 PM Author: Irradiated violent base vandy is expensive as fuck though. UT in state is a good deal. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2843247&forum_id=2#27590926) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2015 8:08 AM Author: razzmatazz ungodly abode main people if someone is getting into CCN, I imagine the Vandy is pretty generous with the money
I wish I had taken Vandy's money back in the day, there're definately one of those schools that try to buy USNew rankings by giving student with good numbers money
you should definately throw an application their way and see what they'll give you
(though I guess money was no object to the OP) |
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Date: March 31st, 2015 8:28 PM Author: Opaque comical crackhouse I don't think there's any advantage to going to UT. If I had an educational trust paying my freight and I wanted to live in Texas, I'd try to do law school at Columbia though, just so I could have a few years in NYC before selling my soul for a 4,000 square foot house and a 2 hour commute on a blacktop stove, going nowhere, as the August sun beats down with the fury of Joe McEachern's fist. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2843247&forum_id=2#27590943) |
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Date: March 31st, 2015 9:18 PM Author: Overrated theatre (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2843247&forum_id=2#27591339) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2015 7:42 AM Author: cracking garrison this isn't how it works (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2843247&forum_id=2#27601387) |
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Date: March 31st, 2015 9:20 PM Author: Stimulating lay kitty why do u want to be a lawyer
just go to mccombs & be chill man |
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Date: April 1st, 2015 3:09 PM Author: Overrated theatre (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2843247&forum_id=2#27596017) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2015 7:41 AM Author: cracking garrison (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2843247&forum_id=2#27601383) |
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Date: April 1st, 2015 3:30 PM Author: Jade dashing tattoo I was in a similar position to OP. CCN is definitely less risky (and I would think it will pay off eventually). Money isn't a factor for you and that's usually what leads people to UT. The way that UT pays off in my opinion is if you just absolutely crush it. Law Review, Chancellors, etc. can open ridiculous doors in Texas. If you think you can/will do that, then it definitely might be worth it.
Building the network definitely helps but UT gets its share of people who leave TX for good because Austin attracts a different breed than TX overall. Plus, you can already see people who you were good friends with from law school that are probably going to just drop off the professional radar to a large extent (basically, the average or below-average students at Columbia are going to have it a lot more together I suspect). I personally think undergrad stuff is more valuable for your network. |
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Date: April 1st, 2015 3:47 PM Author: Motley lettuce Nah if you go to CCN 10 years out of LS you know a hundred people who you could legit call to help you get a job at their employer/within their sphere of influence. Most people don't get that much bang for their buck out of ug. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2843247&forum_id=2#27596369) |
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Date: April 1st, 2015 4:33 PM Author: Jade dashing tattoo Well yeah, I assumed from OP that they were talking about getting clients, not jobs. Obviously if you're trying to get a job in your "profession" then you will reach out to classmates from your "professional" school. If you want clients though, then you want to contact everyone other than lawyers. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2843247&forum_id=2#27596640) |
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Date: April 3rd, 2015 11:33 AM Author: Zombie-like razzle chapel foreskin ljl at CLS aspies making friends for life with 100 classmates. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2843247&forum_id=2#27610155) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2015 3:03 AM Author: rough-skinned startling toilet seat newt (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2843247&forum_id=2#27600933) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2015 3:57 AM Author: rough-skinned startling toilet seat newt (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2843247&forum_id=2#27601176) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2015 6:30 PM Author: Orange resort EGREGIOUS CCN trolling itt (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2843247&forum_id=2#27604989) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2015 6:40 PM Author: Geriatric spectacular plaza (penn grad) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2843247&forum_id=2#27605051) |