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john quinn announces the end of summer associate programs
Poast new message in this thread
Date: June 29th, 2015 4:47 PM Author: crimson beady-eyed new version institution http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2015/06/29/quinn-emanuel-to-scale-back-summer-associate-program/ (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2922605&forum_id=2#28224771) |
Date: June 29th, 2015 4:49 PM Author: Amethyst community account station QE is a sinking ship. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2922605&forum_id=2#28224789) |
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Date: June 29th, 2015 5:02 PM Author: Charcoal Rambunctious Mood And has been for a while. It's a house of cards. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2922605&forum_id=2#28224883) |
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Date: June 29th, 2015 5:03 PM Author: Vigorous Blood Rage Are the recruiting shenanigans related to that or are they just douchebags? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2922605&forum_id=2#28224888) |
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Date: June 29th, 2015 5:03 PM Author: Charcoal Rambunctious Mood Yes. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2922605&forum_id=2#28224894) |
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Date: June 29th, 2015 5:08 PM Author: Vigorous Blood Rage Nice (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2922605&forum_id=2#28224924) |
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Date: June 29th, 2015 5:09 PM Author: Charcoal Rambunctious Mood (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2922605&forum_id=2#28224933) |
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Date: June 30th, 2015 3:51 PM Author: Doobsian abode (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2922605&forum_id=2#28231688) |
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Date: June 29th, 2015 4:50 PM Author: Exciting Aqua Space Generalized Bond (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2922605&forum_id=2#28224794) |
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Date: June 29th, 2015 4:51 PM Author: violent slippery stag film Lots of hilarious nuggets in here:
"Addressing concerns that law students may be reluctant to join a firm full-time that they haven’t interned at first, Mr. Quinn said in the email that, “I am sure that’s true of the average law student; but, we’ve never been looking for the average law student."
lol, Quinn is full of TTTs and middle of the class T14 types.
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Date: June 29th, 2015 4:52 PM Author: violent slippery stag film Where is quinnpumo when you need him? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2922605&forum_id=2#28224811) |
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Date: June 29th, 2015 4:57 PM Author: Vigorous Blood Rage Lol, I rarely read WSJ, Times does it to some extent but rarely as obnoxiously as "summer associates–culled from the ranks of elite law schools–spend a few months..."
The idea that the SAs of "virtually all large law firms" are "culled from the ranks of elite law schools" is just hilarious. |
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Date: June 29th, 2015 5:04 PM Author: crystalline fear-inspiring market Perspective matters. Even though that statement is hyperbolic, remember that there are 200 law schools out there. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2922605&forum_id=2#28224896) |
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Date: June 29th, 2015 5:07 PM Author: Vigorous Blood Rage Oh, undoubtedly, and to the average person, X regional state school is an elite law school if it's the best in the area. I would just prefer that media correct misconceptions instead of playing them up (that's probably way too optimistic though) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2922605&forum_id=2#28224922) |
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Date: June 29th, 2015 5:00 PM Author: Vigorous Blood Rage And of course:
"We think those candidates will appreciate our efforts to put more money in their pockets as they come in the door rather than excessively spending on summer programs that many view as a waste of time.”
Haha, rather than $36k from 2L summer. Those will have to be some crazy 3L signing bonuses. |
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Date: June 29th, 2015 5:01 PM Author: aromatic home Addressing concerns that law students may be reluctant to join a firm full-time that they haven’t interned at first, Mr. Quinn said in the email that, “I am sure that’s true of the average law student; but, we’ve never been looking for the average law student. … We think those candidates will appreciate our efforts to put more money in their pockets as they come in the door rather than excessively spending on summer programs that many view as a waste of time |
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Date: June 29th, 2015 5:02 PM Author: chocolate crackhouse This is really hamfisted spin. Just say you're cutting costs. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2922605&forum_id=2#28224886) |
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Date: June 29th, 2015 5:11 PM Author: aromatic home "hire 3Ls"
Just do free ride off of other firms SA programs |
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Date: June 29th, 2015 5:11 PM Author: Charcoal Rambunctious Mood "$4m+ PPP!"
"Really? What's the spread like?"
{dead silence} |
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Date: June 29th, 2015 5:20 PM Author: Carnelian razzle-dazzle ticket booth "Listen, John, those profits per partner are fine, well and good -- superb, even. But you and I both know that a firm is a lot like a woman, and no man worth his salt should commit to either until he's seen DAT SPREAD." (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2922605&forum_id=2#28224987) |
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Date: June 30th, 2015 11:37 AM Author: aromatic home (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2922605&forum_id=2#28229869) |
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Date: June 30th, 2015 11:40 AM Author: Exhilarant Sticky Site Ceo QE, always finding new ways to gin up PPP
that extra money saved won't go to anything except partners' pockets
also, this probably means that QE's lateral needs will only amplify; they'll need to hire 100+ laterals every year |
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Date: June 30th, 2015 11:44 AM Author: Carnelian razzle-dazzle ticket booth aren't acquisition costs for laterals much higher? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2922605&forum_id=2#28229903) |
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Date: June 30th, 2015 11:46 AM Author: aromatic home not if you factor in the cost of summer + first 2 years where associates are worthless. this way, some other firm pays $350K to train the attorneys, after which they lateral to Quinn (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2922605&forum_id=2#28229912) |
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Date: June 30th, 2015 11:48 AM Author: Carnelian razzle-dazzle ticket booth I think the worthlessness of juniors, at least as far as revenue goes, is a bit overstated. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2922605&forum_id=2#28229922) |
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Date: June 30th, 2015 11:51 AM Author: Charcoal Rambunctious Mood Agreed. They're profitable year 1. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2922605&forum_id=2#28229949) |
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Date: June 30th, 2015 11:54 AM Author: aromatic home really? i've always heard it takes 2 years before they make a dime but what the fuck do i know (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2922605&forum_id=2#28229971) |
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Date: June 30th, 2015 11:56 AM Author: Charcoal Rambunctious Mood I'm overstating a bit. It depends on the sort of cases they're being staffed on. If it's a big institutional client with a large matter, they're profitable from year 1. If it's catch-as-catch can where you end having to write off hours left and right then it can be more of a wash. But certainly the "first years cost us money" across the board is a myth (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2922605&forum_id=2#28229983) |
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Date: June 30th, 2015 11:52 AM Author: Deranged main people stage They'll probably still hire a bunch of first-years. They'll go to 3L OCI and try to snag people who were unhappy with the firm from which they got an offer or who would prefer Quinn. They figure they'll get roughly the same quality first-years without the expense of a summer program (which aren't that cheap when you figure in the salaries, inability to bill out summers, events etc).
I don't think it's a bad bet at all. The concept of wining and dining doesn't fit in a world where even elite law students just don't have many other options. |
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Date: June 30th, 2015 11:54 AM Author: aromatic home but how will the students know if the firm is a good "fit" if they haven't gone to a baseball game with a couple of senior associates? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2922605&forum_id=2#28229965) |
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Date: June 30th, 2015 11:54 AM Author: Charcoal Rambunctious Mood (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2922605&forum_id=2#28229969) |
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Date: June 30th, 2015 12:01 PM Author: Vigorous Blood Rage (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2922605&forum_id=2#28230019) |
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Date: June 30th, 2015 12:02 PM Author: Vigorous Blood Rage We're joining an honorable profession comprised primarily of partnerships of other collegial individuals. This isn't just some desk job. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2922605&forum_id=2#28230024) |
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Date: June 30th, 2015 12:03 PM Author: Charcoal Rambunctious Mood (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2922605&forum_id=2#28230027) |
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Date: June 30th, 2015 12:02 PM Author: Deranged main people stage (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2922605&forum_id=2#28230025) |
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Date: June 30th, 2015 1:23 PM Author: Dashing Plaza International Law Enforcement Agency (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2922605&forum_id=2#28230473) |
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Date: June 30th, 2015 11:57 AM Author: Carnelian razzle-dazzle ticket booth I suppose I've always viewed the summer differently. I view it as accomplishing the following:
1. Giving the summers "good feelings" about the firm from the outset, so that they have a positive impression and deal with the bullshit longer.
2. Providing a perk to the full-time associates for morale purposes. |
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Date: June 30th, 2015 11:58 AM Author: aromatic home and screening for latent personality defects? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2922605&forum_id=2#28229995) |
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Date: June 30th, 2015 11:59 AM Author: Charcoal Rambunctious Mood see below lol 1 minute apart (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2922605&forum_id=2#28230000) |
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Date: June 30th, 2015 12:00 PM Author: Carnelian razzle-dazzle ticket booth OFS (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2922605&forum_id=2#28230010) |
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Date: June 30th, 2015 11:59 AM Author: Charcoal Rambunctious Mood And it's a backstop for us to catch any crazies that slipped through OCI. There's always one or two (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2922605&forum_id=2#28229999) |
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Date: June 30th, 2015 11:55 AM Author: Multi-colored Rigpig No biglaw associate making his minimum hours has ever lost a firm money. Ever. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2922605&forum_id=2#28229977) |
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Date: June 30th, 2015 11:56 AM Author: aromatic home so then why not raise biglaw salaries from 2007 levels? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2922605&forum_id=2#28229981) |
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Date: June 30th, 2015 12:09 PM Author: Deranged main people stage First, let me welcome you to the US. Things here are a bit different from Sweden, but I'm confident you'll become acclimated to our lifestyle in no time!
Salaries went from 125k to 145k and then to 160k (with increases in bonuses) to keep associates and even law students from jumping ship to consulting, banking, and lucrative in-house jobs. That's no longer a problem. Junior associates are profitable. |
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Date: June 30th, 2015 11:58 AM Author: Exhilarant Sticky Site Ceo correct. a lot of first years in biglaw end up only billing about 1500 realized hours (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2922605&forum_id=2#28229994) |
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Date: June 30th, 2015 11:53 AM Author: Charcoal Rambunctious Mood It's not about the acquisition cost (you're right, that's costly but they're willing to take the hit). It's about being able to keep shuffling in warm bodies to replace everyone below the very top tier of the partnership to keep the illusion going. They can't keep their associates and they can't keep their cattle class partners. They do keep the upper crust of the partnership for the reasons already being discussed in this thread (i.e., a hilariously distorted spread); that requires constant lateral inflow (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2922605&forum_id=2#28229961) |
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Date: June 30th, 2015 11:59 AM Author: Carnelian razzle-dazzle ticket booth Very fair points, but a place that churns and burns laterals is going to get a bad rep as a place to lateral to, and most laterals, other than ones who got canned, aren't going to bite. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2922605&forum_id=2#28230003) |
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Date: June 30th, 2015 12:01 PM Author: Charcoal Rambunctious Mood Quinn seems to be somehow doing it thus far. You can shuffle deck chairs for a while. But its reputation *is* deteriorating. The lateral dog and pony show they constantly trot out -- I'm sure many of us can attest to this -- is starting to wear thin; at least that's my impression. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2922605&forum_id=2#28230018) |
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Date: June 30th, 2015 12:04 PM Author: Carnelian razzle-dazzle ticket booth I can't imagine how it wouldn't.
And honestly, even if I got canned, I'd still be loathe about going to a place where it was more likely than not that I'd be in the same predicament 18-24 months later. |
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Date: June 30th, 2015 12:07 PM Author: Charcoal Rambunctious Mood My prediction is that Quinn is going to have a Latham moment in relatively short order -- say next five years. It's a couple of institutional client fuck ups plus maybe one or two top-tier partners leaving with their books away from this. It's much more precarious than what are considered its peers, for the reasons we've been discussing. I don't think the place is going to implode but I just think the veil is going to be pulled back on it and its going to come out the other side a very diminished, different firm
For the staff and associates and the lower level partners there, I don't want this to happen. But for Quinn's chosen cadre they deserve it |
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Date: June 30th, 2015 12:08 PM Author: Carnelian razzle-dazzle ticket booth This is the problem with a fluid lateral partner market and large books being held by few partners. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2922605&forum_id=2#28230067) |
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Date: June 1st, 2018 12:30 PM Author: Pale Stock Car (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2922605&forum_id=2#36165291) |
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Date: June 30th, 2015 1:40 PM Author: disturbing senate to be clear, not a dime of this will be "redirected" towards signing bonuses and shit. This'll just give some shithead Quinn partner a few more thou at the end of this year (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2922605&forum_id=2#28230584) |
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Date: June 30th, 2015 1:40 PM Author: crimson beady-eyed new version institution (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2922605&forum_id=2#28230591) |
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Date: June 30th, 2015 2:33 PM Author: judgmental cerebral love of her life pit Sounds like an overhyped firm is going to shit. No idea why anyone with options would go to Quinn in the first place. If they need people, im sure they can land some mediocre clerks from the district of Idaho, striver laterals that couldn't do better than DLA Piper at OCI, and dudes that struck out completely at OCI. But I think the real story is they don't need people because work is slow. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2922605&forum_id=2#28230973) |
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Date: June 30th, 2015 2:38 PM Author: judgmental cerebral love of her life pit As an aside, if I was John Quinn, And what I had to sell was Quinn Emanuel, I'd just fucking own it. I wouldn't pretend I could compete with the v10 for talent. I'd wait till oci was over and the strivers that struck out were really fucking desperate and I'd hire the guys that just missed big law offers for well under market. Kinda like going to an after Christmas sale at the mall. You can still get some good stuff for dirt cheap. It's just been picked over some. I'm sure I could get some people that are impressive on paper for that. Then I'd pocket the rest and brag about my PPP (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2922605&forum_id=2#28231014) |
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Date: June 30th, 2015 3:55 PM Author: histrionic cumskin the GULC of law firms (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2922605&forum_id=2#28231717) |
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Date: June 30th, 2015 4:15 PM Author: Zombie-like set french chef Maybe GULC is the Quinn Emanuel of law schools? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2922605&forum_id=2#28231852) |
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Date: June 30th, 2015 4:17 PM Author: violent slippery stag film It pretty tough to insult GULC but I think you've done it (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2922605&forum_id=2#28231857) |
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Date: June 30th, 2015 2:39 PM Author: aromatic home Addressing concerns that law students may be reluctant to join a firm full-time that they haven’t interned at first, Mr. Quinn said in the email that, “I am sure that’s true of the average law student; but, we’ve never been looking for the average law student." (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2922605&forum_id=2#28231023) |
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Date: June 30th, 2015 2:41 PM Author: judgmental cerebral love of her life pit Apparently he's looking for one of those geniuses that will pick an unsure thing at a known sweatshop over a more reputable firm that pays the same and hasn't displayed the first signs of financial trouble. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2922605&forum_id=2#28231041) |
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Date: June 30th, 2015 3:51 PM Author: judgmental cerebral love of her life pit (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2922605&forum_id=2#28231684) |