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So F22s couldn't even beat Typhoons in a dogfight?

...
Mauve razzle-dazzle business firm
  10/02/15
That's like complaining that a Delta operator armed with a S...
Trip shaky casino
  10/02/15
...
concupiscible hideous market kitty
  10/02/15
http://theaviationist.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/df_3029...
Mauve razzle-dazzle business firm
  10/02/15
The Typhoons scored several Raptor kills during the Red Flag...
Mauve razzle-dazzle business firm
  10/02/15
And when Captor-E and the Meteor are both operational it wil...
Topaz boyish lay
  10/02/15
http://www.cast.ru/eng/?id=328
Exciting stag film
  10/02/15
CAST is defense industry publication. They always talk down ...
Topaz boyish lay
  10/02/15
Yeah, right. There's always an explanation with you so that ...
Exciting stag film
  10/02/15
What was the struggle exactly? Took them two days to kill th...
Topaz boyish lay
  10/02/15
The F-22 was robbed of its planned next generation helmet mo...
Mauve razzle-dazzle business firm
  10/02/15
relevance of f22 vs typhoon hypo? I mean, the F22 and Typ...
impertinent factory reset button library
  10/02/15
idk maybe a typhoon is similar to what the state of the art ...
Mauve razzle-dazzle business firm
  10/02/15
*Dude who doesnt know a bunch of Arabs now operate Typhoons*
Topaz boyish lay
  10/02/15
our long-standing allies, man. before you cite Iranian F-...
impertinent factory reset button library
  10/02/15
Chance exists so you have to talk about it.
Topaz boyish lay
  10/02/15
yeah it exists and it's higher than UK or Germany or the oth...
impertinent factory reset button library
  10/02/15
You dont need to worry about the current version of the Typh...
Topaz boyish lay
  10/02/15
The Typhoon is a seriously hot machine, and the aircraft is ...
Mauve razzle-dazzle business firm
  10/02/15
lol. No. It has a very bad radar.
Topaz boyish lay
  10/02/15
http://theaviationist.com/2014/09/30/these-may-be-the-only-f...
Exciting stag film
  10/02/15
Captor-E + Meteor will give the Typhoon the ability to engag...
Topaz boyish lay
  10/02/15
Update, July 31: Some commenters claim the Red Flag exercise...
Mauve razzle-dazzle business firm
  10/02/15
According to German pilots, the Eurofighter's and Raptors sq...
Mauve razzle-dazzle business firm
  10/02/15
Admittedly, advanced air forces plan to do most of their fig...
Mauve razzle-dazzle business firm
  10/02/15
During the process the pilots of JG74 gained a real boost to...
Mauve razzle-dazzle business firm
  10/02/15
Of course with no tanks its ToT is like 35 minutes. Its a sh...
Topaz boyish lay
  10/02/15
As delusional as you are about everything Russian working pe...
Exciting stag film
  10/02/15
Paid the rent for a decade :-)
Topaz boyish lay
  10/02/15
extremely fair observation
free-loading coffee pot
  10/02/15
in real war it is AWACS/networked fighters and total informa...
Motley useless den selfie
  10/02/15
...
Mauve razzle-dazzle business firm
  10/04/15
are you into this fighter shit because it's luxe tanks and ...
Hairraiser Faggotry
  10/04/15
this was a weird part of imanagecat's schtick
mewling angry hunting ground
  07/16/18
...
Lascivious Dopamine
  07/17/18


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Reply Favorite

Date: October 2nd, 2015 8:22 PM
Author: Mauve razzle-dazzle business firm



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3007132&forum_id=2#28887002)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 2nd, 2015 8:23 PM
Author: Trip shaky casino

That's like complaining that a Delta operator armed with a SCAR would lose to a fight with a Samurai assuming they were locked in a small closet together.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3007132&forum_id=2#28887011)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 2nd, 2015 9:44 PM
Author: concupiscible hideous market kitty



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3007132&forum_id=2#28887575)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 2nd, 2015 8:23 PM
Author: Mauve razzle-dazzle business firm

http://theaviationist.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/df_3029_neuburg_18-07-12.jpg

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3007132&forum_id=2#28887014)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 2nd, 2015 8:25 PM
Author: Mauve razzle-dazzle business firm

The Typhoons scored several Raptor kills during the Red Flag Alaska. On one day a German pilot, recounting a succesfull mission ironically commented: “yesterday, we have had a Raptor salad for lunch.”

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3007132&forum_id=2#28887026)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 2nd, 2015 8:27 PM
Author: Topaz boyish lay

And when Captor-E and the Meteor are both operational it will even be able to hunt Raptor in BVR, but right now its the shittiest of the major fighters. A Chinese J-11B has a better radar.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3007132&forum_id=2#28887047)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 2nd, 2015 8:34 PM
Author: Exciting stag film

http://www.cast.ru/eng/?id=328

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3007132&forum_id=2#28887084)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 2nd, 2015 8:39 PM
Author: Topaz boyish lay

CAST is defense industry publication. They always talk down capability to make case fore more procurements. The VVS won the war in 48 hours. Georgia wasnt a target rich environment. After knocking out the handful or radars and the two runways in the entire country they didnt have anything to bomb. Using Tu-22's as rec aircraft was stupid but that was the only real low point. Georgia is a state actor that spent 20 years and billions preparing for war with Russia and at end of day they lasted 48 hours.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3007132&forum_id=2#28887114)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 2nd, 2015 8:44 PM
Author: Exciting stag film

Yeah, right. There's always an explanation with you so that the final answer is "Russian military kicks ass, bro."

Your air force struggled against freaking Georgia.

That's the reality.

Deal with it.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3007132&forum_id=2#28887149)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 2nd, 2015 8:46 PM
Author: Topaz boyish lay

What was the struggle exactly? Took them two days to kill the Georgian SAM's and at end of day two Georgia had no air defense and no army. They lost a few CAS plane to MANPAD and a like 3 planes to Buks of Russian make. It testament to quality of Russian missiles.

And Georgia saw the Su-34 pop its cherry and get its first kills.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3007132&forum_id=2#28887169)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 2nd, 2015 8:28 PM
Author: Mauve razzle-dazzle business firm

The F-22 was robbed of its planned next generation helmet mounted sight during its later development and funding stages and the JHMCS apparently cannot be reworked to suit the Raptor’s unique needs, so the state-of-the-art Raptor still packs around AIM-9M Sidewinders which are incapable of high angle off bore-sight shots. The German Eurofighters on the other hand pack the highly capable and modern IRIS-T short-range (but longer than the Sidewinder series) missile. During a “turning fight” all the Eurofighter pilot has to do to kill their enemy is to maneuver the nimble fighter into a position where he or she can simply look at the bandit, even up to almost 90 degrees off the jet’s center axis, acquire a lock and fire. This means that almost the whole 180 degree frontal hemisphere of the highly maneuverable Typhoon is deadly, whereas at this time the F-22′s forward close in missile engagement envelope is much more narrow in comparison.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3007132&forum_id=2#28887051)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 2nd, 2015 8:34 PM
Author: impertinent factory reset button library

relevance of f22 vs typhoon hypo?

I mean, the F22 and Typhoon are not going to fight. F-22 vs. J-10 or Su35 is relevant.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3007132&forum_id=2#28887081)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 2nd, 2015 8:36 PM
Author: Mauve razzle-dazzle business firm

idk maybe a typhoon is similar to what the state of the art russian or chinese stuff

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3007132&forum_id=2#28887092)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 2nd, 2015 8:36 PM
Author: Topaz boyish lay

*Dude who doesnt know a bunch of Arabs now operate Typhoons*

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3007132&forum_id=2#28887093)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 2nd, 2015 8:39 PM
Author: impertinent factory reset button library

our long-standing allies, man.

before you cite Iranian F-14s or something, what do you honestly think are the chances the Kuwaitis or Saudis are going to get in an air war with the US?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3007132&forum_id=2#28887109)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 2nd, 2015 8:40 PM
Author: Topaz boyish lay

Chance exists so you have to talk about it.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3007132&forum_id=2#28887116)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 2nd, 2015 8:46 PM
Author: impertinent factory reset button library

yeah it exists and it's higher than UK or Germany or the other NATO operators but it doesn't mean we need to go worrying about how ARE FIGHTER would do against a Typhoon when that's at best a tertiary threat.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3007132&forum_id=2#28887165)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 2nd, 2015 8:47 PM
Author: Topaz boyish lay

You dont need to worry about the current version of the Typhoon at all since its crappy radar renders it basically blind and dumb.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3007132&forum_id=2#28887178)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 2nd, 2015 8:36 PM
Author: Mauve razzle-dazzle business firm

The Typhoon is a seriously hot machine, and the aircraft is extremely deadly even in a newly minted pilots hands. Put that same weapon system in the hands of a seasoned Luftwaffe fight jock and anything in America’s fighter inventory would be seriously challenged when fighting up-close and personal.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3007132&forum_id=2#28887090)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 2nd, 2015 8:40 PM
Author: Topaz boyish lay

lol. No. It has a very bad radar.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3007132&forum_id=2#28887122)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 2nd, 2015 8:41 PM
Author: Exciting stag film

http://theaviationist.com/2014/09/30/these-may-be-the-only-f-22s-achilles-heels-in-a-dogfight-against-4th-gen-fighter-jets/

Sounds like a limited weakness that I expect will be addressed. The F-22 is designed to kill from distance.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3007132&forum_id=2#28887128)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 2nd, 2015 8:49 PM
Author: Topaz boyish lay

Captor-E + Meteor will give the Typhoon the ability to engage the F-22 at far greater range than the APG-77 + Aim-120C5. They need to get the 120D out to compete.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3007132&forum_id=2#28887195)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 2nd, 2015 8:57 PM
Author: Mauve razzle-dazzle business firm

Update, July 31: Some commenters claim the Red Flag exercise is not indicative of the way the F-22 would fight in the real world. In an actual shooting war, an F-22’s opponent “won’t make it to visual range,” one reader asserted. The Raptor’s stealth would allow it to sneak up high and fast and kill the enemy from long range using an AMRAAM missile, commenters insist.

But that’s assuming two things. One, that the rules of engagement in a future conflict will allow to the Air Force to shoot down targets without visually identifying them — a risky assumption given the world’s increasingly crowded airspace. Two, that the AMRAAM even works. Missile-maker Raytheon hasn’t delivered a new AMRAAM in two years after it was found that the weapon’s rocket motor doesn’t work in a cold environment, which is exactly where the high-flying F-22 is most at home.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3007132&forum_id=2#28887246)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 2nd, 2015 8:58 PM
Author: Mauve razzle-dazzle business firm

According to German pilots, the Eurofighter's and Raptors squared off in one vs. one engagements (Basic Fighter Maneuvering or BFM) at visual range. Luftwaffe pilots got as close to the raptors as possible and squared off in the merge.

"As soon as you get to the merge … the Typhoon doesn’t necessarily have to fear the F-22”- Major Marc Grunene

Luftwaffe pilots claim that they were able to achieve several Raptor kills in mock dogfights at visual range. At visual range, the Luftwaffe pilots noted that they were fairly evenly matched with the Raptor. Using their HMD's and simulated off bore sight missiles, the German pilots were able to score several Raptor kills. It is unknown how many Raptors the Germans actually managed to "kill" and how many Eurofighter's were lost in the effort. At least four Raptors were killed (three Raptor kill markings on one Eurofighter and a single kill marking on the second) judging from photographs taken by Dietmar Fenners posted on the The Aviationist website.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3007132&forum_id=2#28887254)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 2nd, 2015 9:00 PM
Author: Mauve razzle-dazzle business firm

Admittedly, advanced air forces plan to do most of their fighting at long range and avoid the risky, close-in tangle — something Gruene acknowledged in his comments to Combat Aircraft. But there’s evidence that, in reality, most air combat occurs at close distance, despite air arms’ wishful thinking. That could bode poorly for the F-22’s chances in a future conflict.

In a 2008 study (big file!), the Air Force-funded think tank RAND warned against assuming long-range missiles will work. RAND looked at 588 air-to-air shoot-downs since the 1950s and counted just 24 that occurred with the attacker firing from beyond visual range. Historically, American long-range air-to-air missiles have been 90-percent less effective than predicted, RAND asserted.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3007132&forum_id=2#28887271)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 2nd, 2015 9:02 PM
Author: Mauve razzle-dazzle business firm

During the process the pilots of JG74 gained a real boost to their confidence, said Col Grüne. “There were two mornings where we flew against them 1v1. We pulled off all the tanks to get the most alpha [angle of attack]; the Eurofighter really is an animal with no tanks.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3007132&forum_id=2#28887284)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 2nd, 2015 9:04 PM
Author: Topaz boyish lay

Of course with no tanks its ToT is like 35 minutes. Its a short legged point interceptor pretending to be a fighter -- like the pre-fat MiG-29.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3007132&forum_id=2#28887296)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 2nd, 2015 9:14 PM
Author: Exciting stag film

As delusional as you are about everything Russian working perfectly, you really do seem to know a lot about this shit.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3007132&forum_id=2#28887355)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 2nd, 2015 9:15 PM
Author: Topaz boyish lay

Paid the rent for a decade :-)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3007132&forum_id=2#28887360)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 2nd, 2015 9:41 PM
Author: free-loading coffee pot

extremely fair observation

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3007132&forum_id=2#28887555)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 2nd, 2015 9:29 PM
Author: Motley useless den selfie

in real war it is AWACS/networked fighters and total information awareness where US would PWN AND CRUSH every other AF in the world. dog fight in WVR range will be extremely rare and one off situations and even here F22 should have an advantage due to its exceptional TW ratio. Also no aircraft will have a 100% kill rate and Typhoon is a super capable aircraft in its own right so some raptor losses is to be expected



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3007132&forum_id=2#28887446)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 4th, 2015 4:45 PM
Author: Mauve razzle-dazzle business firm



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3007132&forum_id=2#28898427)



Reply Favorite

Date: October 4th, 2015 5:07 PM
Author: Hairraiser Faggotry

are you into this fighter shit because it's luxe

tanks and missile systems are not luxe enough for your purview right

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3007132&forum_id=2#28898520)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 16th, 2018 10:01 PM
Author: mewling angry hunting ground

this was a weird part of imanagecat's schtick

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3007132&forum_id=2#36441156)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 17th, 2018 2:01 AM
Author: Lascivious Dopamine



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3007132&forum_id=2#36442657)