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After leaving biglaw, realize its actually a great gig minus the people
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Date: October 21st, 2015 12:39 AM Author: Exhilarant Sadistic Liquid Oxygen Biglaw is very unique in that it gives people the opportunity to work at a job where you actually get to think. Most corporate jobs involve 100% mindless shit. Even if biglaw was 60% mindless shit, it still beats what I have seen post biglaw. You get paid a lot and the hours are not really worse than anything else making similar money. Law is not a bad career at all.
The one and only problem with biglaw is that you are surrounded by people who are determined to be fucking miserable and convince others that they have the most miserable life possible. I have seen multiple people in biglaw continue to overwork themselves even when people told them to stop. This toxicity becomes a virus and pretty soon everyone's misery infects everyone else. People literally clean up toilets with a better attitude than lawyers at work.
If you can find a place without toxic people, I truly believe law is a great career. Most people like me left biglaw not because the work sucked, but rather because they could no longer take a toxic environment mired in negativity.
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Date: October 21st, 2015 12:42 AM Author: Razzle-dazzle piazza Jfc I barely interact with anybody at my law firm. All this "zomg the people are so awful" shit isn't something I'm familiar with at all fortunately
Also the people at my firm are mostly chill and 180 |
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Date: October 21st, 2015 12:42 AM Author: Razzle-dazzle piazza What city and practice area and how big was your office? Did you try lateral to some place non toxic?
Can you DESCRIBE ur corporate experience? |
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Date: October 21st, 2015 12:48 AM Author: Exhilarant Sadistic Liquid Oxygen Transactional in secondary market. I was too worried about getting to another toxic place. Then again 20% of the associates in my office quit within a week of each other so it clearly wasn't me.
I now do the business side at a company similar to many of my prior clients. I find the work incredibly boring and unchallenging. Everything I do I could have done with my high school degree.
I'm applying to small firms again. |
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Date: October 21st, 2015 1:59 AM Author: Silver shitlib I agree. I was sorta happy at my firm and they hired a dude who just started bitchig about everything the minute he arrived. Within a few months everyone was bitching about everything all the time and we were all miserable. I left and I'm happier. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3022781&forum_id=2#29011731) |
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Date: October 21st, 2015 11:33 PM Author: Underhanded hall This guy sounds 180. The worst people in biglaw are the ones who treat if like its an awesome job. They are normally boring proles. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3022781&forum_id=2#29018907) |
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Date: October 22nd, 2015 12:08 AM Author: Spectacular keepsake machete No, the worst are the normal bros who eat the dick and pretend it's ok (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3022781&forum_id=2#29019169) |
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Date: October 22nd, 2015 12:41 AM Author: Silver shitlib (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3022781&forum_id=2#29019296) |
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Date: October 22nd, 2015 11:13 AM Author: Exhilarant Sadistic Liquid Oxygen OP here. You hit it on the head. Negative people are like a virus. I was totally optimistic and content but my entire firm was filled with people like the one you describe. Eventually I transformed into a negative bitch like everyone else. Looking forward to going back to law but finding a place filled with optimistic people. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3022781&forum_id=2#29021065) |
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Date: October 21st, 2015 11:31 PM Author: Spectacular keepsake machete Not entirely agreed as I make more and my hours are better, but TCR on the people (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3022781&forum_id=2#29018896) |
Date: October 21st, 2015 12:42 AM Author: Lime histrionic sanctuary what do u do now (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3022781&forum_id=2#29011442) |
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Date: October 21st, 2015 12:42 AM Author: cerebral painfully honest corner "Biglaw is very unique in that it gives people the opportunity to work at a job where you actually get to think. Most corporate jobs involve 100% mindless shit."
I do not understand the apparently very common belief on XO that legal work is intellectually stimulating in way that non-legal work is not. Since you appear to be a textbook example of this, please fill me in. |
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Date: October 21st, 2015 12:44 AM Author: Exhilarant Sadistic Liquid Oxygen I work on the business side. Spreadsheet jockeying is incredibly mindless and all business decision making is essentially guy feel. Requires nowhere near the same intellect to do. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3022781&forum_id=2#29011455) |
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Date: October 21st, 2015 12:49 AM Author: Razzle-dazzle piazza Guy feel? Huh?
Truly must be grass is greener. Legal shit feels pointless while the BSD bizdoods run shit |
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Date: October 21st, 2015 12:51 AM Author: Exhilarant Sadistic Liquid Oxygen Gut feel. The business decisions I make are again incredibly easy compared to legal drafting and thinking out issues. I felt exactly like you prior to leaving Biglaw. Saying the deal is 45 mil versus 50 mil is basically totally arbitrary and based upon software a monkey could work. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3022781&forum_id=2#29011486) |
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Date: October 21st, 2015 12:57 AM Author: Razzle-dazzle piazza I spent all day today reading a partnership agreement to figure out whether a company buying back some of its stock in two separate but related sequential transactions (one public, one privately negotiated) is required to permit certain controlling holderS exercise preemptive rights as to a certain subset of they ownership interests. OH WHAT INTELLECTUALLY STIMULATING ARGLE BARGLE. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3022781&forum_id=2#29011513) |
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Date: October 21st, 2015 1:02 AM Author: Exhilarant Sadistic Liquid Oxygen I spent all day running comparables to justify a valuation. What's the fucking difference that makes you think business is so much better? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3022781&forum_id=2#29011539) |
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Date: October 21st, 2015 2:43 AM Author: laughsome heaven both of you work in shitty jobs. HTH (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3022781&forum_id=2#29011814) |
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Date: October 22nd, 2015 11:45 AM Author: irradiated rigor (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3022781&forum_id=2#29021248) |
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Date: October 21st, 2015 2:46 AM Author: fuchsia half-breed school if you're in litigation, i suppose writing substantive briefs and researching and analyzing cases and coming up with legal theories is more intellectually stimulating than most jobs.
sure, there's tons of bullshit in litigation and plenty of briefs are cut and paste jobs, but i see OP's point. |
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Date: October 21st, 2015 2:48 AM Author: laughsome heaven oh, but the way 7.2 interacts with 9.6! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3022781&forum_id=2#29011828) |
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Date: October 22nd, 2015 12:34 PM Author: comical chocolate market (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3022781&forum_id=2#29021525) |
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Date: October 21st, 2015 12:45 AM Author: arrogant school cafeteria brethren biglaw is fine if you don't care too much about it. you need to know how to push back from day 1.
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Date: October 21st, 2015 12:49 AM Author: Exhilarant Sadistic Liquid Oxygen Biglawyers honesty believe that clients expect everything to be perfect and on time when in reality people in business understand human beings have lives and occasionally fall behind schedule. The toxic desire to please is a huge part of it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3022781&forum_id=2#29011480) |
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Date: October 21st, 2015 4:45 AM Author: Cracking theater stage feces Unfortunately it comes from the top. If the senior partner will flip out over a typo, it doesn't really matter that the client doesn't give a fuck (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3022781&forum_id=2#29012012) |
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Date: October 21st, 2015 4:59 AM Author: fuchsia half-breed school (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3022781&forum_id=2#29012025) |
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Date: October 22nd, 2015 9:03 AM Author: Bonkers exciting locus alpha CR.
In law, there are "real problems" in that there's something that needs to be taken care of. This constitutes roughly 10% of biglaw.
Then there are "fake problems," in which nothing is really wrong, but the client is freaking out so you have to placate them. This is another 20% of biglaw.
Then there are "fake fake problems" in which nothing is wrong, the client is chill, but the partner has imagined a situation in which something could potentially go wrong and making sure it doesn't has become an emergency ("But what if our conveyance of real property is deemed to be governed under admiralty law? WHAT THEN? Please do a survey of every circuit by CoB, thank.") This is the remaining 70% of biglaw and the source of roughly 90% of the complaints. |
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Date: October 22nd, 2015 8:45 AM Author: titillating depressive except, if your client contact is another attorney who got washed out of biglaw after a few years, then they relish being able to give the partner shit for every little meaningless mistake as some sort of payback for their years as an associate (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3022781&forum_id=2#29020435) |
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Date: October 22nd, 2015 9:02 AM Author: purple regret foreskin Cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3022781&forum_id=2#29020489) |
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Date: October 21st, 2015 10:24 PM Author: Razzle-dazzle piazza (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3022781&forum_id=2#29018299) |
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Date: October 22nd, 2015 12:05 AM Author: Light adventurous black woman Executive recruiting and sales > everything. Careers are flame. Just stack cash, invest in an automated income source like property and GTFO (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3022781&forum_id=2#29019160) |
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Date: October 22nd, 2015 12:28 AM Author: brass boyish prole messiness I agree with the OP 100%. I enjoyed the intellectual aspects of biglaw a lot. I'm currently working in management (have 30 people under me) and it is not enjoyable at all. It's like managing one big, highly inefficient machine that has extremely low collective intelligence, versus managing one small machine with high intelligence and efficiency in law (yourself plus maybe one paralegal). In business you constantly have to deal with lazy people that have rediculous personal issues and bad attitudes (worse than the admittedly toxic attitudes that some big law lawyers have, because they are at least competent and get shit done). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3022781&forum_id=2#29019251) |
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Date: October 22nd, 2015 2:14 AM Author: Lascivious Turquoise Space working more than 40 hours a week sucks, doesn't matter what you're doing (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3022781&forum_id=2#29019654) |
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Date: October 22nd, 2015 6:33 AM Author: stimulating persian dragon (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3022781&forum_id=2#29020213) |
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Date: October 22nd, 2015 4:50 AM Author: Pearly stain candlestick maker 99% of transactional work amounts to glorified rent seeking. No one actually gives a fuck what the lawyers do on a deal. Corporate lawyer fight tooth and nail for points that their clients don't actually care about.
Being a corporate lawyer rather than someone involved in the business side is a joke. |
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Date: October 22nd, 2015 5:52 AM Author: Cracking theater stage feces transactional biglawyer here - i think it's a pretty good gig all-in. it's not INTELLECTUALLY SOPHISTICATED but sometimes it's interesting, though only if you're the kind of person who can be interested by add-backs to pro forma EBITDA. the hours can sometimes be really shitty but other times are okay, and you get a lot of flexibility which is nice. agree that people are the worst part but if you are lucky enough to have decent co-workers/clients it's actually okay. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3022781&forum_id=2#29020185) |
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Date: October 22nd, 2015 9:31 AM Author: Judgmental nowag how in the world is biglaw transactional work remotely intellectually stimulating as say a SCOTUS clerkship? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3022781&forum_id=2#29020593) |
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Date: October 22nd, 2015 11:15 AM Author: Sapphire stage All I want is a chill 9-5 that pays 150k and doesn't require me to think. Is this in house? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3022781&forum_id=2#29021074) |
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Date: October 22nd, 2015 11:21 AM Author: brass boyish prole messiness Get a union job stamping license plates (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3022781&forum_id=2#29021113) |
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Date: October 22nd, 2015 11:22 AM Author: Peach party of the first part roommate No, the problem is the sheer volume of (mostly unnecessary) work, working until 10-11 on a near daily basis, working weekends and holidays, and always having the threat of working late or on weekend or holidays. Maybe I'm just in a terrible situation. But CR that it is more interesting and stimulating than vast majority of office jobs. I mean it sucks but I don't think most xoers appreciate how boring and repetitive most office work is. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3022781&forum_id=2#29021123) |
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Date: October 22nd, 2015 11:43 AM Author: Judgmental nowag Isnt the whole billing system at biglaw a disaster? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3022781&forum_id=2#29021229) |
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Date: October 24th, 2015 12:28 PM Author: cobalt nubile water buffalo resort Not really in biglaw. The goal is to only have clients where it doesn't really matter. At all. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3022781&forum_id=2#29034370) |
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Date: October 24th, 2015 12:27 PM Author: shimmering fortuitous meteor therapy Agreed. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3022781&forum_id=2#29034364) |
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Date: December 6th, 2020 9:03 PM Author: Crawly motley macaca (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3022781&forum_id=2#41497725) |
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Date: October 22nd, 2015 11:25 AM Author: shivering blue base I'd rather do something mindless for work and devote my mental energy to things I actually enjoy and the people I love.
I think the workaholic mindset of the lawyer is a symptom of lawyers generally needing to feel important and deriving their sense of worth from work. Hence, if you stop working you become worthless and unimportant. |
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Date: October 22nd, 2015 11:38 AM Author: razzmatazz hell yarmulke But no one would love me if I didn't have a "good job" / "prestigious job." Catch 22 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3022781&forum_id=2#29021207) |
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Date: October 22nd, 2015 11:44 AM Author: shivering blue base You must have a few lovable traits. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3022781&forum_id=2#29021239) |
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Date: October 22nd, 2015 11:55 AM Author: Arousing Sable Mood Preventive Strike When you get to just be a "trusted advisor" and the client calls you personally for advice and not the partner (a client I brought in, mind you), that was the 180 aspect of the job. To then back that up with some serious analysis and thought, loved that aspect of it.
But I had a partner I worked with that drove me out of biglaw. Tremendous micromanager, ridiculed every little aspect of everything, came up with ridiculous scenarios that required analysis even though there was no way the scenario could ever happen, required constant check ins (standing meeting every week), wouldnt check email, etc. I left because of it as did others.
I wonder if my situation wouldve been different at the other firms I had offers from because aspects of the job were great minus dealing with him. |
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Date: October 22nd, 2015 12:28 PM Author: Exhilarant Sadistic Liquid Oxygen What do you do now? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3022781&forum_id=2#29021501) |
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Date: October 22nd, 2015 12:36 PM Author: comical chocolate market (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3022781&forum_id=2#29021545) |
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Date: October 23rd, 2015 5:06 PM Author: Salmon apoplectic national security agency (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3022781&forum_id=2#29030203) |
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Date: November 26th, 2015 1:10 PM Author: Light adventurous black woman I have a really chill job. checking in once a week is not "micro-managing" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3022781&forum_id=2#29256775) |
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Date: November 26th, 2015 1:31 PM Author: 180 irate house pistol l'enfer c'est les autres (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3022781&forum_id=2#29256854) |
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Date: November 26th, 2015 1:34 PM Author: Useless trump supporter (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3022781&forum_id=2#29256862) |
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Date: November 26th, 2015 1:38 PM Author: Hideous opaque church building karate A lot (most?) people in BIGLAW never wanted to be in the corporate world. That they are just cogs in some system of deal making or litigation and that there are a lot of pressures involved with something they have zero respect for generates a lot of the misery, which feeds on itself and makes everyone miserable, yeah. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3022781&forum_id=2#29256873) |