BofA GC to Cravath: First Year Associates Not Worth $180K (WSJ)
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Poast new message in this thread
Date: June 16th, 2016 1:04 AM Author: contagious kitty
After Cravath, Swaine & Moore LLP said last week it would boost starting pay for its junior-most lawyers to $180,000, law firms across the country stumbled over themselves to announce salary increases for their own associates.
But now companies are pushing back.
Bank of America Corp.’s top lawyer recently sent an email to a group of law firms calling the increases in associate lawyer pay unjustified, making it clear the bank wouldn’t help firms absorb the cost.
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“While we respect the firms’ judgment about what best serves their long-term competitive interests, we are aware of no market-driven basis for such an increase and do not expect to bear the costs of the firms’ decisions,” David Leitch, Bank of America’s global general counsel, wrote in the email, reviewed by The Wall Street Journal.
A Bank of America spokesman declined to comment.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3256507&forum_id=2#30715976) |
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Date: June 16th, 2016 2:22 AM Author: wine zombie-like potus heaven
The salary doesn't tell you anything.
What billable rates are at issue?
That's what matters.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3256507&forum_id=2#30716177) |
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Date: June 16th, 2016 2:32 AM Author: Flesh nursing home
see response below:
Date: June 16th, 2016 2:32 AM
Author: David Ben Gator-ion (*)
nah, you're overthinking this. he's just literally an angry rat-faced man and the WSJ reporter went down the rolodex and kept calling people until they found a rat-faced man like this who was angry enough with life to give them the money quote they wanted.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3256507&forum_id=2#30716201)
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3256507&forum_id=2#30716203) |
Date: June 16th, 2016 2:21 AM Author: wine zombie-like potus heaven
That B of A guy is a clown.
Associate pay is an internal business decision for firms.
Clients are only affected by the rates they're being charged, which are independent of the input costs.
If some other firm does similar quality work for less, B of A is perfectly free to use it.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3256507&forum_id=2#30716176) |
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Date: June 16th, 2016 2:26 AM Author: Flesh nursing home
rat-faced man
lol @ "He served as law clerk to William H. Rehnquist, Roberts’ predecessor as chief justice,"
is that description really necessary? seems insulting to WHR
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3256507&forum_id=2#30716185) |
Date: June 16th, 2016 2:47 AM Author: Flesh nursing home
FULL ARTICLE BELOW...
BUSINESS LAW
Corporate Clients Push Back After Law Firms Hike Starting Salaries
Bank of America calls decision to boost junior lawyers’ pay to $180,000 unjustified
Worldwide Plaza, home of the offices of Cravath, Swaine & Moore LLP, the law firm whose decision to raise junior lawyers’ starting pay has rankled some companies. ENLARGE
Worldwide Plaza, home of the offices of Cravath, Swaine & Moore LLP, the law firm whose decision to raise junior lawyers’ starting pay has rankled some companies. PHOTO: BLOOMBERG NEWS
By SARA RANDAZZO
Updated June 15, 2016 7:05 p.m. ET
44 COMMENTS
After Cravath, Swaine & Moore LLP said last week it would boost starting pay for its junior-most lawyers to $180,000, law firms across the country stumbled over themselves to announce salary increases for their own associates.
But now companies are pushing back.
Bank of America Corp.’s top lawyer recently sent an email to a group of law firms calling the increases in associate lawyer pay unjustified, making it clear the bank wouldn’t help firms absorb the cost.
“While we respect the firms’ judgment about what best serves their long-term competitive interests, we are aware of no market-driven basis for such an increase and do not expect to bear the costs of the firms’ decisions,” David Leitch, Bank of America’s global general counsel, wrote in the email, reviewed by The Wall Street Journal.
A Bank of America spokesman declined to comment.
The latest law firm salary raises boosted first-year pay by 12.5%, and gave comparable hikes to the rest of the associate lawyer ranks. Pay generally went up by between $20,000 and $35,000 for every associate, topping out at salaries of $315,000 and above for the senior-most associates, typically with eight or nine years of experience.
The chief litigation officer for a Fortune 100 company said $180,000 for a first-year isn’t justified, pointing by way of comparison to a lawyer in the company’s litigation department with 20 years of experience who doesn’t make that much money. “Why would we ever think a first-year associate is worth that?” the lawyer said, adding that they recently denied a firm’s request to charge $400 an hour for a first-year.
The identities of the law firms that received Mr. Leitch’s message aren’t known, but the email appeared to target firms that handle the bank’s litigation.
“We value the work performed by our Litigation Roundtable firms and seek to maintain a true partnership that meets our reciprocal needs—thoughtful, strategic, and cost-competitive representation at rates and alternative billing arrangements that are attractive to our counsel,” wrote Mr. Leitch.
The email ended by saying Mr. Leitch entrusts the firms who receive the email with its work because of their “legal expertise and entrepreneurial instinct,” and looks forward to continuing to partner with them.
Like many other large companies, BofA has worked in recent years to reduce its legal spending; in 2013, the bank told the Association of Corporate Counsel it slimmed the number of firms it hires to defend it in litigation to 30 from around 700. Bank of America spent $1.2 billion on litigation in 2015, according to its earnings report.
BofA has used firms including Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom LLP; Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison LLP and Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP for big litigation matters in the past. Paul Weiss declined to comment. Representatives for Skadden and Cleary didn’t immediately return calls for comment.
Cravath didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment.
The push-and-pull over pay and rates has for decades been a source of tension between corporate legal departments and the law firms they hire.
Historically, law firms charged their clients in only one way: by the hour. While many in-house lawyers grumbled about the arrangements, saying they encouraged inefficiency and led to eye-popping bills, they mostly paid them.
But within the last decade or so, companies have pushed back. They now routinely demand “flat-fee” arrangements for a single piece of work, like a lawsuit or a transaction. And many have stopped paying for photocopies and legal research, items that were once rubber-stamped.
In-house lawyers have also ramped up resistance to paying for the most junior lawyers, often saying they won’t pay for first- and second-year lawyers even if they are staffed on assignments. Such lawyers, the thinking goes, are too often billed out at hundreds an hour to perform relatively menial tasks, like reviewing documents.
Not all in-house lawyers are railing against the raises.
Edward Ryan, the global general counsel for Marriott International Inc., said he believes “law firms are responsible for their own cost structure” and that what ultimately matters is “the value of what we pay for.” That said, he questioned if clients will “take their business elsewhere” if law firms try to pass off the costs directly.
Before Cravath raising its salaries, associate pay industrywide hadn’t budged in nearly a decade, a time during which law school tuition has skyrocketed, leaving many graduates with upward of $100,000 in debt.
Many associates had complained to law-firm leaders that in recent years their pay scale had failed to keep up with cost-of-living increases.
It isn’t entirely surprising that dozens of firms have followed Cravath’s lead and matched the new salary structure in recent days. Large law firms view keeping pace with market leaders like Cravath as part of staying competitive in recruiting and retaining their younger lawyers, even if their profits are lower and they operate in smaller markets.
Write to Sara Randazzo at sara.randazzo@wsj.com
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3256507&forum_id=2#30716232) |
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Date: June 16th, 2016 10:15 AM Author: Bright mad cow disease
"180,000 for a first year? That's insane. Listen, I've got this guy who's been in our legal department 30 years and isn't even at 6 figures yet."
*Buzzes secretary*
"Pam...get the gimp."
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3256507&forum_id=2#30717227) |
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Date: June 16th, 2016 10:19 AM Author: twinkling naked set
"The Gimp's on vacation."
"Well, I guess you're gonna have to bring him back in pocket."
*Surf music*
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3256507&forum_id=2#30717261) |
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Date: June 16th, 2016 10:22 AM Author: infuriating tanning salon
People Lathamed + even MOAR billable hours expectations. More convos will go like this:
Partner: "Listen David, I notice you weren't that productive last week."
David: "Well, I did bill 60 hours and I had my brother's wedding to attend. Remember we talked about that?"
Partner: "Yeah, but weddings take how long? 4 hours? 6 hours? You billed 0 the entire weekend..."
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3256507&forum_id=2#30717273) |
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Date: June 16th, 2016 4:51 PM Author: infuriating tanning salon
"(cut bonuses, cut summer class headcount, raise billable hours before bonuses, steath layoff deadweight at senior associate and in non equity partner ranks)"
Yes, they'll cut bonuses. Summer class headcount is more of a factor of expected need for first years. Yes, they will probably raise billable hours but people have natural/physical limits for this. They lay off deadweight anyway if they aren't profitable.
You still end up with a delta. And it isn't going to be absorbed by the partners.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3256507&forum_id=2#30720735) |
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Date: June 16th, 2016 11:04 AM Author: infuriating tanning salon
So then you're saying this will come out of PPP? I don't believe it.
"to attract and retain talent"
Those are actually meaningless buzzwords. Unless others were paying more, they were paying top of the market. Other firms are matching anyway, so how did this help?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3256507&forum_id=2#30717569) |
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Date: June 16th, 2016 11:09 AM Author: chocolate associate
You've been on xo for a while, so it should not come as a surprise to you that top law school graduates do not choose firms based on compensation alone, and a firm's prestige and status as a compensation leader plays a much bigger role than the salary alone because - as you mentioned - the salary is pretty much the same across the board.
Law firms want to attract the best students because this is one of their tools when soliciting business - hey, client, go with us and not that other law firm because our lawyers are smarter and will outsmart your opponent. This is also how Cravath, e.g., will justify higher billing rates than DLA Piper.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3256507&forum_id=2#30717608)
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Date: June 16th, 2016 11:17 AM Author: Wonderful old irish cottage
BoA can't really say shit about NYC salaries.
They kind of have a point that $180k is ridiculous in fucking CharloTTTe
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3256507&forum_id=2#30717672) |
Date: June 16th, 2016 11:40 AM Author: marvelous thirsty codepig stage
So, to recap: Boomer GC expects efficient, top-quality work from the senior firm lawyers he hires, relies on those senior lawyers for his business, but refuses to contribute at all to train the next generation that he will need.
Classic Boomerism.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3256507&forum_id=2#30717886) |
Date: June 16th, 2016 1:40 PM Author: Puce low-t meetinghouse messiness
ITT: crybabies.
This guy is only complaining about increased salaries insofar as they will result in higher costs on his end. He has a responsibility to the shareholders to hold down legal costs. As GC, that's one of his biggest jobs, of not his biggest. This is how business works, kiddos. Each stakeholder tries to increase his economic surplus, by working with other stakeholders or by taking from other stakeholders as the situation may warrant. If you don't like it, as one of my MBA professors once said, go be a church secretary.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3256507&forum_id=2#30719090) |
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Date: June 16th, 2016 3:54 PM Author: Flesh nursing home
"He has a responsibility to the shareholders to hold down legal costs," the bootlicker lisped
breh, do you think any F500 management guy really gives a fuck about his responsibility to shareholders? they're all about keeping their jobs and entrenching themselves for as long as possible and generating short term returns at the expent of long-term shareholder value.
and even if he's correct, making some rat-faced comment to the WSJ isnt going to change anything and just makes him look like an asshole -- which he obviously is and obviously doesnt care.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3256507&forum_id=2#30720209) |
Date: June 16th, 2016 4:18 PM Author: cerise mental disorder doctorate
tl;dr
hehe
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3256507&forum_id=2#30720421) |
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Date: June 16th, 2016 6:01 PM Author: wine zombie-like potus heaven
"And the reason he hasn't already done that is what"
Big Reason: Assembling teams of smart specialists admitted to and knowledgeable of every jurisdiction in the country isn't cheap or easy.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3256507&forum_id=2#30721524)
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Date: June 16th, 2016 9:41 PM Author: yapping startling plaza
In-house bro here. Glad to see Biglaw bros get the bump, and not sure if that will translate into higher rates for mega companies like BoA or mine. There are a handful of firms where our annual bills are into the $70-100 million or so range, and we're able to negotiate better rates than the firm's smaller clients. There are some firms that we have 2013 rates locked in with them for the next few years.
The legal fees have become a huge issue over the past few years, and legal is definitely cutting down the number of firms we use. Historically, the department-head attorney could decide which firms to use for its department (e.g., lit, etc). Some attorneys had like 30 firms and others only had a handful. We've definitely seen a trend to narrow that list down as much as possible so that we can concentrate the work with fewer firms to negotiate better rates. By way of example, we had a country counsel for a small Euro country had like 20 law firms, and with no real reason other than giving his buddies a taste.
I can't put or take someone off the list, but I can certainly shift work to one firm over another. Ultimately, I'm sending it to the firm that is more responsive and knows our business. Sometimes we'll go to a firm only to find their advice to nearly useless because they've failed to understand our business or regulatory or internal restrictions. A good portion of my work is getting the outside counsel to educate me on the law or perhaps give us an idea on what our competitors are doing, and it's up to me and my colleagues to make it apply to our business taking into account regulatory and operational limitations.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3256507&forum_id=2#30723387) |
Date: June 16th, 2016 10:00 PM Author: curious angry hell
Why does this thread have 300+ poasts?
Does/did everyone here work at Cravath?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3256507&forum_id=2#30723536) |
Date: June 4th, 2018 4:37 PM Author: Buck-toothed New Version
TY for bumping this. Lol at all the earnest, buckwild RAGE itt.
If this were a physical, IRL forum rather than a World Wide Web chatboard, TMF would've been beaten down like the black dude from the skateboarding fight scene in the movie Kids.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3256507&forum_id=2#36182615) |
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