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Have to fire someone next week. Am dreading it.
Poast new message in this thread
Date: September 20th, 2016 12:30 PM Author: canary deep kitchen She is a bad lawyer with terrible hours who adds very little to our firm, but it is still almost all I can think about. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31451396) |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 12:40 PM Author: Appetizing native regret They'll be better off! Just tell the person to work for his or her self (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31451473) |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 12:40 PM Author: canary deep kitchen she tried that at some point before she came to us. I don't think it went well. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31451481) |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 12:44 PM Author: Appetizing native regret It's a girl is she fuckable? If she does things right give her a chance to save her job friend;) or find her something else;) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31451504) |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 12:45 PM Author: canary deep kitchen no, not at all (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31451510) |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 12:49 PM Author: Ocher spot ugly and bad at her job?
DING! |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 7:21 PM Author: cyan bat shit crazy incel (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31454084) |
Date: September 20th, 2016 12:30 PM Author: insane range You're a decent human being, congrats (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31451405) |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 1:02 PM Author: Duck-like Resort Alpha (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31451636) |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 12:31 PM Author: Chartreuse big half-breed personal credit line just be happy it isn't reversed (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31451409) |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 12:32 PM Author: Ultramarine odious toaster selfie "with terrible hours"
LOL @ this "profession" |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 12:32 PM Author: canary deep kitchen Especially once you include her share of fixed costs, we are losing a good bit of money by employing her.
And her hours are shit because no one wants to work with her, not because there isn't enough work to do. |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 12:37 PM Author: Ultramarine odious toaster selfie why doesnt anyone want to work with her (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31451452) |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 12:39 PM Author: canary deep kitchen see below. Just not a good lawyer. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31451466) |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 12:34 PM Author: federal national really tough guy what makes her a bad lawyer and how long has she been with teh firm? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31451434) |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 12:37 PM Author: canary deep kitchen A year. Has billed 750 hours. Makes mistakes, so you have to check everything she does. Doesn't have any intuitive sense of the right thing to do and clearly doesn't often even understand what is going on. If she were enthusiastic or responsive or any of those things that are intangible, we might be willing to work with her, but doesn't really seem to care much or have a particularly good attitude about anything. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31451455) |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 12:39 PM Author: federal national really tough guy she has to know the ax is coming after performance reviews and billing 750, no? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31451467) |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 12:40 PM Author: canary deep kitchen yes, probably, although I insinuated a month or so ago that we might instead move her to hourly, although now we've decided we just need to cut the cord. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31451476) |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 12:47 PM Author: federal national really tough guy btw, how glaring are her mistakes? i kind of do this too but never anything substantive (i think). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31451521) |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 12:49 PM Author: canary deep kitchen pretty glaring. Gave her about 15 tenant estoppels to prepare for a real estate acquisition, and there are at least 5 mistakes that would be a major issue if they ever actually came up after closing. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31451532) |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 12:50 PM Author: federal national really tough guy T25 LS? If not, this is what your firm gets for hiring 40 yr old TTT grads. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31451545) |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 12:56 PM Author: lascivious shaky striped hyena what's a "T25" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31451590) |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 12:59 PM Author: federal national really tough guy top 25 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31451617) |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 12:37 PM Author: Coral Cerebral Hunting Ground how are you gonna do it? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31451451) |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 12:38 PM Author: canary deep kitchen Walk into her office, shut the door, and tell her we are letting her go. She has gotten a lot of talking to over the last couple of months, so it certainly won't come as a complete shock. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31451463) |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 1:32 PM Author: tantric translucent nursing home Well, there it is. I understand feeling bad for someone who didn't realize there was an issue and who didn't get a chance to fix things. Sounds like she had multiple opportunities and has a bad attitude. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31451883) |
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Date: September 21st, 2016 9:34 PM Author: Carmine contagious death wish you'd better have someone else in there with you or you're going to get lawsuitpwned (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31463462) |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 12:42 PM Author: federal national really tough guy *Global capitalism gently placing your hand on the gun*
*Raises your arm and points it at young millenial's head*
"Just close your eyes, pull the trigger, and it will be over before you know it," GC whispers in your ear. |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 12:43 PM Author: canary deep kitchen she is actually older than me. Probably early 40's. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31451493) |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 12:45 PM Author: Startled mind-boggling university how can someone that old not know how to practice law (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31451511) |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 12:47 PM Author: canary deep kitchen we have a number of people like this. Been practicing for years and just don't "get it". Aren't able to make decisions for themselves, and when they do make them, they are often terrible....still make big mistakes...don't know what issues are important. I'm convinced that if you don't "get it" after 5 years of practicing law, you will never. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31451519) |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 1:18 PM Author: Startled mind-boggling university Please provide an example/anecdote showcasing this (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31451774) |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 12:45 PM Author: federal national really tough guy is she a 1st yr? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31451515) |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 12:48 PM Author: canary deep kitchen no, junior skills, but actually graduated from law school a while ago. No positive why we hired her, but it wasn't my decision. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31451526) |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 12:47 PM Author: Appetizing native regret Early 40s is ting it top genes and takes care of body perfect top, bottom; inside and out! I wouldn't fire her I'd mentor her! "Age is a flamelie (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31451523) |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 12:49 PM Author: federal national really tough guy what language is this? is it like ebonics? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31451538) |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 12:56 PM Author: lascivious shaky striped hyena careful (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31451593) |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 12:57 PM Author: Appetizing native regret Ye$ Ebonics my friend! Online Ebonics (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31451599) |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 1:03 PM Author: federal national really tough guy 180 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31451646) |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 12:45 PM Author: Sable sexy party of the first part philosopher-king If it makes you feel better,she's prob on wife/mommy track and was just riding things out until firing and won't be upset. Nobody bills 750 if they cared at all about the job. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31451509) |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 12:45 PM Author: canary deep kitchen no kids (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31451512) |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 12:49 PM Author: Appetizing native regret Hmm I couldn't stand people like this at my engineering firm but I ended up covering all of their hours and made a fortune Ljl (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31451534) |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 1:06 PM Author: heady menage son of senegal you're so fucking annoying. shut the hell up already (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31451669) |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 1:20 PM Author: twinkling awkward hell cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31451793) |
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Date: September 21st, 2016 8:51 PM Author: Domesticated Red Fat Ankles Ape lol'd irl (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31463041) |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 12:54 PM Author: Sable sexy party of the first part philosopher-king Oh hmm, it sounded like she was some 27 year old first year but she's actually a 40s something mid level?
I'm sure she sees the writing on the wall though and won't be surprised at least. |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 12:52 PM Author: vibrant high-end bawdyhouse Firing people is never fun, especially when you're not giving them notice (I never give people notice).
It's only slightly enjoyable when the person is a dick and everyone hates the person.
It's never something I look forward to though. People who look forward to that kind of shit are 2 steps away from becoming serial killers. |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 12:54 PM Author: vigorous bright chapel boistinker you mean all AZN's (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31451570) |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 12:54 PM Author: Appetizing native regret Yeah very sick people that enjoy firing someone (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31451571) |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 12:56 PM Author: Arrogant galvanic sneaky criminal As someone who just got fired recently (and who has had to fire ppl in the past) my only advice is to be respectful and professional and to make sure she knows immediately that the decision has already been made. This eliminates embarrassing shit like begging for another chance. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31451586) |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 12:59 PM Author: federal national really tough guy "This eliminates embarrassing shit like begging for another chance."
jfc. this sounds absolutely brutal. |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 1:01 PM Author: Arrogant galvanic sneaky criminal it's rare but it does happen unfortunately. You just have to close the door firmly right at the beginning. The dude who just canned me said "I need my keys back" first thing so there was no question the decision had been made. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31451629) |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 1:03 PM Author: federal national really tough guy you got fired from the bartender job? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31451639) |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 1:07 PM Author: Arrogant galvanic sneaky criminal bar manager bro. I got drunk at the bar on saturday night after a long day shift. I sat down to have a bowl of soup and relax and two regulars bought me a drink. Ended up getting wasted. Next day I came in the owner was there to fire me. No bullshit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31451681) |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 1:11 PM Author: federal national really tough guy wow, that was quick. what now? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31451715) |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 1:17 PM Author: Arrogant galvanic sneaky criminal back to pounding the pavement. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31451759) |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 1:38 PM Author: Self-centered Digit Ratio whats the big deal? you can't drink at the bar when you're off duty? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31451936) |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 1:41 PM Author: Arrogant galvanic sneaky criminal I thought it was a total over-reaction and was not expecting to get fired. I WAS wasted however and they needed to call an uber for me because my phone died. It's hard to explain the vibe of the place but the owner is pretty involved and he told me he didn't think the staff would be comfortable around me after this happened. That being said, I should have had a better read on the situation and not gotten drunk there. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31451952) |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 1:44 PM Author: federal national really tough guy sounds like you lost the respect of staff and thus your authority over them. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31451974) |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 1:46 PM Author: Arrogant galvanic sneaky criminal that was his read for sure. Not sure how accurate it is but it's his place and he gets to make up the rules. Sucks getting fired and I know beggars can't be choosers but I didn't really like it there so in a way it's a relief. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31451983) |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 1:00 PM Author: federal national really tough guy your firm gonna keep her on the website and act as a reference at least? it'd be easier firing her knowing she has a good chance of finding something else. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31451623) |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 1:19 PM Author: canary deep kitchen yes, we will. And give her 6 weeks severance. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31451777) |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 1:04 PM Author: thriller box office To be fair, that's what you get for paying your associates shit, no? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31451654) |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 1:19 PM Author: Startled mind-boggling university boom (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31451781) |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 1:25 PM Author: canary deep kitchen We don't pay all associates badly, just the shitty ones which we probably should never have hired. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31451823) |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 1:29 PM Author: Appetizing native regret You said there are "many" like her in your firm! Why not clean house? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31451854) |
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Date: September 21st, 2016 4:21 PM Author: stirring senate trust fund haha (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31461159) |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 1:48 PM Author: thriller box office you don't have some sort of semi lock step system based on class year?
How do you decide how much to pay a 40 year old junior/midlevel lawyer?
How much was she actually paid (give or take - no doobs).
We are having a hard time recruiting talent for real estate - but we are still sticking to people who have firm experience and who aren't aimless fuck ups.
It takes a lot to actually lose money on any associate, but 750 hours might do it. |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 4:53 PM Author: canary deep kitchen semi lockstep, although it is very much based on skills, and we hired a few 10th year lawyers with 3rd year transactional experience, and paid them like 3rd years. Neither worked out, so we won't be doing that again.
We decide to pay the person described above (40 yr old with junior skills) based on experience.
We paid her $140k, which is what we'd normally pay a 3rd year.
Yes, we mostly stick to those people...the couple of times we've done differently when we were desperate for anyone we get burned....granted some of these people have great pedigrees, Harvard and Stanford, but jumped around a lot between lit and transactional and random jobs, and clearly there was a reason. |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 7:20 PM Author: Provocative elastic band library re: the ppl who "jumped around a lot between lit and transactional"
were they mostly ppl who started in transactional then figured they could do lit? i've never really contemplated doing the opposite (lit to transactional). |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 1:39 PM Author: federal national really tough guy i feel bad for her but would feel worse if she was some eager 20-something just struggling with a steep learning curve. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31451940) |
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Date: September 20th, 2016 1:48 PM Author: tantric translucent nursing home This. I would have serious trouble firing someone enthusiastic that was struggling. But firing someone who obviously just dgaf is much easier. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31452002) |
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Date: September 21st, 2016 4:11 PM Author: canary deep kitchen fuck, now I have to give her a bunch of work to do knowing that we have to fire her...feel so guilty. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31461067) |
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Date: September 21st, 2016 4:15 PM Author: Irate twinkling uncleanness mood it's a kindness to her that you feel so guilty
allow some anger to seep in; if she were more competent, your gentle soul would be less anguished |
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Date: September 21st, 2016 4:20 PM Author: canary deep kitchen I am not a very angry person. I have a lot/way too much empathy. It is probably why I'm not more successful. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31461158) |
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Date: September 21st, 2016 4:21 PM Author: Irate twinkling uncleanness mood they haven't ruined you yet; stay strong (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31461164) |
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Date: September 26th, 2016 10:10 PM Author: canary deep kitchen Wow. She quit on her own. How fortuitous! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31499891) |
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Date: September 27th, 2016 10:30 AM Author: mischievous address Details ? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31504362) |
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Date: September 27th, 2016 9:50 PM Author: canary deep kitchen just found out that she got a job in biglaw with a really good firm. Ho lee fuk, they are going to be in for a rude awakening unless they are hiring her as a junior associate. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31509072) |
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Date: September 27th, 2016 10:35 AM Author: Soul-stirring Bistre Lay She read this thread. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3357834&forum_id=2#31504379) |