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Atlantic: Inequality in the Virtual Classroom (minorities suck at MOOCs)
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Date: September 26th, 2016 12:47 PM Author: Sapphire Center http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2016/09/inequaity-in-the-virtual-classroom/501311/ (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3364244&forum_id=2#31494055) |
Date: September 26th, 2016 12:50 PM Author: Arousing sanctuary juggernaut >Hansen, the Harvard researcher, calls the answer to that question the “MOOC paradox”: Democratizing education could actually compound existing inequality.
you don't say! |
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Date: September 26th, 2016 12:52 PM Author: Sapphire Center allowing people to learn for free will unfairly advantage people who want to learn! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3364244&forum_id=2#31494105) |
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Date: September 26th, 2016 12:55 PM Author: spectacular unhinged toaster and who are good at it! odd (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3364244&forum_id=2#31494122) |
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Date: September 26th, 2016 6:52 PM Author: charcoal depressive (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3364244&forum_id=2#31496817) |
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Date: September 26th, 2016 12:53 PM Author: contagious karate Lol - it's almost as if when you remove all possible sources of bias and just blindly test students on raw ability there are differences between groups of people.
Not sure why this is hard for libs to understand - since they "love science" so much - humans migrated out of Africa - and survival pressures in different parts of the world genetically reinforced different skill sets - e.g. hunting in africa reinforces different skills from farming in East Asia or surviving cold winters in northern europe.
Hence we end up with different races having much different skill sets and abilities - so we see very unequal outcomes in the Olympics, NBA, NFL, and we also see very unequal outcomes in an economy that rewards cognitive skills.
Every piece of evidence in the world - including the genetics and IQ literature - points in the same direction on this issue - which is that different groups of people have very different skills which drives unequal outcomes - it's simple. |
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Date: September 26th, 2016 12:54 PM Author: startled mustard sweet tailpipe Are there people here not on board with HBD? Not necessarily how its applied but the concept? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3364244&forum_id=2#31494119) |
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Date: September 26th, 2016 1:00 PM Author: contagious karate Yes - I have been involved in massive 300+ poast threads arguing with people on this site about these issues. I get called "fucklaw" (I don't know who that is b/c i've only been poasting for 6 months) - but I'm very familiar with genetics literature b/c I did research in statistical genetics - and I post plenty of academic papers showing evidence of the IQ gap having a strong genetic component - and some people refuse to believe it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3364244&forum_id=2#31494148) |
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Date: September 26th, 2016 1:09 PM Author: Stirring olive brethren likely story. how did you find our board? did you use your .edu email to register? and what do you think about whokebe's 2005-era posts? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3364244&forum_id=2#31494207) |
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Date: September 26th, 2016 1:13 PM Author: soggy diverse elastic band genital piercing 180 moniker. Medtner is seriously underrated (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3364244&forum_id=2#31494245) |
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Date: September 26th, 2016 1:21 PM Author: contagious karate Yes I used .edu - I have been lurking here since 2010ish when I was applying to grad school - I found a bunch of grad school forums back then and kept reading here b/c I thought it was hilarious (it was around the time of "hey bros, it's me again...")
No idea about whokebe.
You don't have to believe me - but my research focused on non-negative matrix factorization techniques (along with tensor decompositions) for clustering gene microarray samples. Microarray is a technology that let's us see gene expression levels on a probe/genetic level to identify individual genetic variation between individuals. |
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Date: September 26th, 2016 5:41 PM Author: black friendly grandma crackhouse Do people still use microarrays in research now with the advent of NGS? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3364244&forum_id=2#31496452) |
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Date: September 26th, 2016 1:00 PM Author: Fantasy-prone Balding Dilemma Useless Brakes Yes. Shitlibs need to take insane absolutist "everyone is the same" stances because they know if you give HBD even an inch to stand on, it will become unstoppable. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3364244&forum_id=2#31494152) |
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Date: September 26th, 2016 1:04 PM Author: soggy diverse elastic band genital piercing What do you see as the practical outcome of people "accepting" HBD? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3364244&forum_id=2#31494174) |
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Date: September 26th, 2016 1:05 PM Author: idiotic immigrant bawdyhouse (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3364244&forum_id=2#31494182) |
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Date: September 26th, 2016 1:07 PM Author: soggy diverse elastic band genital piercing Look at the voting demographics though. These ideas are 20 years too late. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3364244&forum_id=2#31494195) |
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Date: September 26th, 2016 1:09 PM Author: idiotic immigrant bawdyhouse 70% of immigrants since 1970 vote Dem. That's why cucks are so pathetic. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3364244&forum_id=2#31494210) |
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Date: September 26th, 2016 1:10 PM Author: Fantasy-prone Balding Dilemma Useless Brakes Sane immigration policy No more discrimination lawsuits based on "disparate impact" or statistical outcomes. |
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Date: September 26th, 2016 1:56 PM Author: Cowardly Legal Warrant Roast Beef (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3364244&forum_id=2#31494671) |
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Date: September 26th, 2016 4:52 PM Author: Magenta drunken queen of the night (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3364244&forum_id=2#31496061) |
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Date: September 26th, 2016 1:17 PM Author: Crimson cruel-hearted national Dehumanization of "lower IQ" ethnic groups and a return of institutional racism. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3364244&forum_id=2#31494306) |
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Date: September 26th, 2016 1:01 PM Author: idiotic immigrant bawdyhouse Clearly not since if you did you would never, ever admit a low skill immigrant. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3364244&forum_id=2#31494157) |
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Date: September 26th, 2016 1:02 PM Author: soggy diverse elastic band genital piercing What exactly is the "The Unified Theory of HBD"? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3364244&forum_id=2#31494163) |
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Date: September 26th, 2016 1:04 PM Author: contagious karate See my poast above about genetic reinforcement in different parts of the world facing different survival pressures. It's evolution 101 and completely unsurprising from a biological perspective (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3364244&forum_id=2#31494172) |
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Date: September 26th, 2016 1:07 PM Author: soggy diverse elastic band genital piercing I don't think any of that is controversial, but how can that impact IRL? AA for whites in the NBA? If minorities really are genetically disadvantaged that means they should receive MOAR assistance, not less (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3364244&forum_id=2#31494190) |
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Date: September 26th, 2016 1:12 PM Author: contagious karate This is a much deeper conversation - but it means that there are natural levels of inequality due to differences in ability.
There is still a question of how much people are entitled to other people's labor. But if we know genetics is a primary driver of inequality - on one hand we still want forms of social insurance (welfare) to insure against bad genetics which are out of our control - but OTOH most govt programs aimed at "closing gaps" or aimed at improving education through more school funding etc. are a huge waste (which is very consistent with what we see in the educational economics literature).
So it doesn't mean we should cut welfare - but it does mean that many govt programs are a big waste of money - and that we shouldn't focus on things like closing achievement gaps. |
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Date: September 26th, 2016 5:45 PM Author: Flickering principal's office partner how much money is being spent on achievement gaps relative to welfare programs though? it has to be peanuts relatively speaking
many of the people deeply concerned with HBD are also more or less a slightly more refined version of redditors posting "mo money dem programz". concern with social policy basically seems to stop with AA and disparate impact |
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Date: September 26th, 2016 5:46 PM Author: Stubborn blathering parlor If you're only paying attention to the HBD-related discussions, what other social policies would they be discussing?
Is that a reason to assume they have no other views on unrelated social policies? |
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Date: September 26th, 2016 1:13 PM Author: Stubborn blathering parlor (Diana Moon Glampers) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3364244&forum_id=2#31494252) |
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Date: September 26th, 2016 1:11 PM Author: Stubborn blathering parlor The "cold climate" stuff is way too broad brush and sort of like phrenology, IMO. There is a hell of a lot of genetic diversity among sub-Saharan Africans, so I think it's stupid to lump them all together as facing the same environmental pressures. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3364244&forum_id=2#31494226) |
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Date: September 26th, 2016 1:17 PM Author: contagious karate I agree - that's the evolutionary theory behind it - and like you said there is still lots of genetic variation within populations (e.g. China). But this is the explanatory theory behind what we observe - and it's unmistakeable that different races have much different abilities (e.g. athletic, cognitive) - and that there's a strong (but not 100%) genetic component to these differences - we know this from twin adoption studies at the very least.
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Date: September 26th, 2016 1:25 PM Author: Stubborn blathering parlor But, while it's relatively easy to group by "race," I'm not sure if that's the most sensible way to group when discussing genes and cognitive abilities. Are the genes that result in the phenotypes we associate with certain races really that highly correlated with the genes that drive cognitive abilities?
For example, there seems to be certain sub-Saharan African ethnic groups that do much better on standardized testing and such. Why lump those groups in with the "black" race? Because of their hair and skin color genes? I think it's likely that genetics play a large (but non-exclusive) role in cognitive abilities, but I also think "race" is a very rough concept when talking about it. |
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Date: September 26th, 2016 1:32 PM Author: contagious karate I agree - race is a very large and sometimes arbitrary level of aggregation. OTOH it's one that we use so if there are programs focused on closing gaps according to this arbitrary aggregation - it's valid to look at the evidence of genetic differences between these groups and posit that there are natural levels of inequality between groups.
I get what you're saying that there's still large within race genetic variation - but OTOH our genetic variation is very geographically structured. If you cluster individuals based on individual genetic variation - the clusters will be highly correlated with geographic origin / ancestry. But you are still correct that there is still fuzziness / overlap to these clusters - as well as large within group variation.
Also to answer your question - yes we know from GWAS studies there are alleles (which strongly correlate to intelligence) that are highly correlated with country-level IQ |
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Date: September 26th, 2016 1:54 PM Author: thriller ultramarine people who are hurt do you know about racial admixture and IQ studies? E.g. a study that looks at the correlation between African-American admixture (%african) and IQ.
This is one part of the story that I can't actually untangle. I've seen one study that found a correlation between educational attainment and % european, but nothing with IQ directly, except old studies.
This was supposed to be the "dispositive proof", aside from ad-hoc assortative mating explanations. for HBD |
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Date: September 26th, 2016 1:59 PM Author: Stubborn blathering parlor No, but my point is that without more granularity than "African" I'm not sure if it will really tell you much.
This article has some interesting data on UK test scores for African immigrants broken down by national/ethnic background. http://www.unz.com/article/the-iq-gap-is-no-longer-a-black-and-white-issue/ |
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Date: September 26th, 2016 2:07 PM Author: thriller ultramarine people who are hurt it would be bad if "HBD theory" had to make too many ad hoc explanations, e.g. african IQ is low except for the Igbo tribe (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3364244&forum_id=2#31494765) |
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Date: September 26th, 2016 5:49 PM Author: Stubborn blathering parlor Why? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3364244&forum_id=2#31496499) |
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Date: September 26th, 2016 5:59 PM Author: At-the-ready sienna market personal credit line this hasn't been studied much, but the old studies are broadly consistent with the HBD view and are fairly persuasive. the only exception i am aware of is the study done using blood type markers as an indicator of admixture, but since there is low variability in these between races the study has low statistical power. i thought this post from Charles Murray was pretty interesting:
"It is now possible using genetic markers to do much better than classify people as "black," "white" or "Asian." The method for doing so is implied in the studies using genetic markers, with the most recent being Tang, H., et al. (2005). "Genetic structure, self-identified race/ethnicity, and confounding in case-control association studies." American Journal of Human Genetics, 76, 268–275.
The next step seems obvious: take a large sample of racially diverse people, give them a good IQ test, and then use genetic markers to create a variable that no longer classifies people as “white” or “black,” but along a continuum. Analyze the variation in IQ scores according to that continuum.
And so I emailed some scholars on both sides of the IQ/race debate, suggesting that they jointly design and conduct such a study. I told them I would undertake to find someone to fund the study. It would be easy to find such a funder, but only if scholars from both sides were on board (otherwise, the funder would fear being called racist). I don't think I'm betraying a confidence when I say that Jensen and Rushton were enthusiastically in favor. Those on the other side, whom I will not name, declined. "
i think everyone knows how this study would turn out.
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Date: September 26th, 2016 12:55 PM Author: Maize irate tattoo That's LITERALLY HITLER! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3364244&forum_id=2#31494126) |
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Date: September 26th, 2016 4:58 PM Author: deranged double fault (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3364244&forum_id=2#31496121) |
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Date: September 26th, 2016 1:09 PM Author: soggy diverse elastic band genital piercing Does MOOC offer and for-credit courses? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3364244&forum_id=2#31494205) |
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Date: September 26th, 2016 1:09 PM Author: contagious karate Also - this is why political correctness is such a cancer and so dangerous - imagine telling this HBD evolution theory to a lib even while supplying academic research as evidence. There'a a lot of people who will cringe and their mind will reject this information b/c it sounds offensive.
This is why PC is so dangerous - it trains people's minds to align their beliefs with what sounds virtuous, tolerant, and progressive, not with what the Truth is. You can't shape people's beliefs by changing Truth - but you can certainly shape people's beliefs by changing what is considered tolerant and virtuous.
Political correctness and liberalism has become a game of virtue signaling - not truth seeking. They align their thought with what sounds tolerant and virtuous - and align their beliefs against perceived intolerance. This is an emotional way of thinking that can be shaped by those in power - rational thinking is harder to manipulate. |
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Date: September 26th, 2016 1:10 PM Author: idiotic immigrant bawdyhouse Every dystopian novel about the truth being hidden in the future was correct, but wrong about the implementation. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3364244&forum_id=2#31494221) |
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Date: September 26th, 2016 1:19 PM Author: contagious karate (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3364244&forum_id=2#31494326) |
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Date: September 26th, 2016 1:11 PM Author: soggy diverse elastic band genital piercing It's basically a religious mode of thinking. Immune to logic or evidence, buttressed by emotion and idealism. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3364244&forum_id=2#31494228) |
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Date: September 26th, 2016 1:18 PM Author: Primrose cerebral senate athletic conference (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3364244&forum_id=2#31494316) |
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Date: September 26th, 2016 1:18 PM Author: contagious karate (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3364244&forum_id=2#31494319) |
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Date: September 26th, 2016 4:58 PM Author: deranged double fault (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3364244&forum_id=2#31496123) |
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Date: September 26th, 2016 1:12 PM Author: idiotic immigrant bawdyhouse https://twitter.com/SteveKingIA/status/777568225538088960 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3364244&forum_id=2#31494234) |
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Date: September 26th, 2016 1:21 PM Author: razzmatazz native place of business Greenforce88 • 4 hours ago You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drin |
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Date: September 26th, 2016 11:16 PM Author: Sapphire Center (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3364244&forum_id=2#31501664) |