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Cell phone company offered me 400k to build an antenna on my property

30 year lease and they get an easement. Ljl when it rains it...
peach effete dog poop
  03/23/17
Ask for 1m
wine hospital internal respiration
  03/23/17
Honestly i'd let them do it for 10k i get no service here no...
peach effete dog poop
  03/23/17
You need to price this out. A cell phone antenna attachment...
lilac hilarious coldplay fan
  03/23/17
Seriously?
peach effete dog poop
  03/23/17
hero
Hyperventilating quadroon corner
  03/23/17
"Look at the value of $3,500 per month for 30 years, di...
stubborn casino mexican
  03/23/17
Good question
peach effete dog poop
  03/23/17
Why are you assuming the cash flow won't grow? Need to know ...
House-broken stimulating half-breed
  03/23/17
Why would I assume otherwise?
stubborn casino mexican
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So you are asking him to ask for the entire present value of...
Bateful Aggressive Pocket Flask Nursing Home
  03/23/17
Enjoy brain cancer.
Bateful Aggressive Pocket Flask Nursing Home
  03/23/17
...
cracking snowy brunch filthpig
  03/23/17
He's gonna live forever.
Vigorous Headpube Parlour
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...
rough-skinned nibblets international law enforcement agency
  03/23/17
...
sable roommate native
  03/23/17
...
Odious stage community account
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Libs losing hoap
Diverse Cheese-eating Roast Beef Toilet Seat
  03/23/17
Enjoy ur cancer
exciting mood step-uncle's house
  03/23/17
Thats flame, plus it will be up on a hill a ways away from a...
peach effete dog poop
  03/23/17
Demand 800k
Thriller Narrow-minded University
  03/23/17
...
Pale mother
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...
red self-centered shitlib sanctuary
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Woah Cr Friend!
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...
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...
Vigorous Headpube Parlour
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Demand a clause that you get to fuck around on the antenna a...
nudist violent party of the first part piazza
  03/23/17
Yeah. Climbing it is FUN. BOUNCY! BOUNCY! BOUNCY!
Bateful Aggressive Pocket Flask Nursing Home
  03/23/17
I wonder it i could tap into their bandwidth
peach effete dog poop
  03/23/17
(kindergarten cop kid)
poppy big-titted range fanboi
  03/23/17
Free upgrades for life!
Insanely Creepy Razzmatazz Chad
  03/23/17
Many, many people who do this ultimately regret it. At th...
Heady out-of-control gunner theater
  03/23/17
this is correct. it costs about $75,000 in 2017 dollars to r...
translucent messiness
  03/23/17
why would you want to remove the tower? Can rig it for your ...
Cowardly faggotry
  03/23/17
Because (a) it sounds like it's no where near a road, (b) in...
Heady out-of-control gunner theater
  03/23/17
"They arent going to give you permission to put a giant...
Provocative maroon police squad site
  03/23/17
...
smoky curious theater stage sound barrier
  03/24/17
Huge Christmas tree.
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Best tree house ever.
stubborn casino mexican
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Oh and if you ever want to subdivide and sell you have a gia...
Heady out-of-control gunner theater
  03/23/17
that's not how it works, dude. you discount the future co...
Obsidian stag film
  03/23/17
i have a lot of land so its not really a worry. This would b...
peach effete dog poop
  03/23/17
ask for 20,000 ETH instead
Lime Seedy Shrine Gaping
  03/23/17
C A N C E R clause dude: seriously, demand something re: can...
Federal stirring indian lodge
  03/23/17
lol at anyone telling him to demand anything. he doesn't own...
translucent messiness
  03/23/17
MAKE | GOOD | DEALS they'll reject so then say FMV in ...
Cocky Principal's Office Hunting Ground
  03/23/17
no they won't. they'll just make their offer to a different ...
translucent messiness
  03/23/17
well this presumes there's not someone immediately next door...
Cocky Principal's Office Hunting Ground
  03/23/17
there's about one cell tower every square half mile in a den...
translucent messiness
  03/23/17
not doing subthread wasteland here, aspie, I think u get my ...
Cocky Principal's Office Hunting Ground
  03/23/17
Ask for more Demand more for every co-tenant Get a decent ...
Magical potus milk
  03/23/17
And they give him Boost Mobile FOR LIFE.
stubborn casino mexican
  03/23/17
With unlimited data.
Magical potus milk
  03/23/17
LJL. I've handled some of these deals. The cell company in...
swashbuckling at-the-ready temple circlehead
  03/23/17
great advice. worth $10ks im sure.
Obsidian stag film
  03/23/17
Sounds like he also has to get the other side to cover his l...
Electric jet-lagged mad-dog skullcap trailer park
  03/23/17
of course.
swashbuckling at-the-ready temple circlehead
  03/23/17
I imagine this is all boilerplate stuff they do these all th...
peach effete dog poop
  03/23/17
you imagine wrong. they usually try to pay out a fixed sum,...
swashbuckling at-the-ready temple circlehead
  03/23/17
Crazy, good to know
peach effete dog poop
  03/23/17
I helped somebody do one of these once. Lease was like 30 pa...
Magical potus milk
  03/23/17
In a few of the ones I've done the provisions aren't boilerp...
Heady out-of-control gunner theater
  03/23/17
also they don't include repair and takeaway costs, so when t...
tantric library
  03/23/17
lol @ assuming kindness and decency from a corporation
Obsidian stag film
  03/24/17
Woah Cr friend!
red self-centered shitlib sanctuary
  03/24/17
If you play hardball, they will go next door. Now you have a...
Odious stage community account
  03/24/17


Poast new message in this thread



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 2:50 PM
Author: peach effete dog poop

30 year lease and they get an easement. Ljl when it rains it pours

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32898824)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 2:52 PM
Author: wine hospital internal respiration

Ask for 1m

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32898841)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 2:53 PM
Author: peach effete dog poop

Honestly i'd let them do it for 10k i get no service here now, plus they will run fiber to it

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32898846)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 3:01 PM
Author: lilac hilarious coldplay fan

You need to price this out. A cell phone antenna attachment pays rent of about $700 per month to be on a tower. Each carrier will want an attachment on the tower, so you typically will see 4-5 attachments per tower. Look at the value of $3,500 per month for 30 years, discounted to present value. That's how much you should be asking for.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32898917)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 3:03 PM
Author: peach effete dog poop

Seriously?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32898926)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 3:04 PM
Author: Hyperventilating quadroon corner

hero

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32898935)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 3:46 PM
Author: stubborn casino mexican

"Look at the value of $3,500 per month for 30 years, discounted to present value."

Given bankruptcy and enforcement risk, I judge this a mildly risky investment and apply a 10% discount, valuing the $3,500 cash flow at about $420,000.

What's the tax treatment for $3,500 monthly payments? Ordinary income would be TTT.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32899191)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 3:51 PM
Author: peach effete dog poop

Good question

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32899230)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 5:29 PM
Author: House-broken stimulating half-breed

Why are you assuming the cash flow won't grow? Need to know the term of $700/month leases.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32900066)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 8:30 PM
Author: stubborn casino mexican

Why would I assume otherwise?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32901775)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 3:53 PM
Author: Bateful Aggressive Pocket Flask Nursing Home

So you are asking him to ask for the entire present value of what the tower company will make?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32899247)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 3:49 PM
Author: Bateful Aggressive Pocket Flask Nursing Home

Enjoy brain cancer.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32899225)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 4:08 PM
Author: cracking snowy brunch filthpig



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32899363)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 8:32 PM
Author: Vigorous Headpube Parlour

He's gonna live forever.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32901790)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 8:57 PM
Author: rough-skinned nibblets international law enforcement agency



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32902057)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 10:57 PM
Author: sable roommate native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32903135)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 24th, 2017 10:04 AM
Author: Odious stage community account



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32905312)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 2:54 PM
Author: Diverse Cheese-eating Roast Beef Toilet Seat

Libs losing hoap

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32898850)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 2:55 PM
Author: exciting mood step-uncle's house

Enjoy ur cancer

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32898852)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 2:55 PM
Author: peach effete dog poop

Thats flame, plus it will be up on a hill a ways away from anything

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32898859)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 2:55 PM
Author: Thriller Narrow-minded University

Demand 800k

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32898853)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 3:02 PM
Author: Pale mother



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32898924)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 24th, 2017 2:50 AM
Author: red self-centered shitlib sanctuary



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32904338)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 2:57 PM
Author: excitant mad cow disease

Woah Cr Friend!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32898879)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 2:57 PM
Author: poppy big-titted range fanboi

half cash, half coke

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32898881)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 2:58 PM
Author: Comical vermilion reading party striped hyena



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32898891)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 8:33 PM
Author: Vigorous Headpube Parlour



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32901792)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 3:03 PM
Author: Purple genital piercing hall



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32898928)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 3:55 PM
Author: nudist violent party of the first part piazza

Demand a clause that you get to fuck around on the antenna as much as you like.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32899264)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 3:57 PM
Author: Bateful Aggressive Pocket Flask Nursing Home

Yeah. Climbing it is FUN. BOUNCY! BOUNCY! BOUNCY!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32899281)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 4:03 PM
Author: peach effete dog poop

I wonder it i could tap into their bandwidth

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32899320)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 4:18 PM
Author: poppy big-titted range fanboi

(kindergarten cop kid)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32899432)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 4:16 PM
Author: Insanely Creepy Razzmatazz Chad

Free upgrades for life!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32899413)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 5:22 PM
Author: Heady out-of-control gunner theater

Many, many people who do this ultimately regret it.

At the end of the lease do they have to repair the property? They like to leave the foundation and footings in the ground which can be very expensive to remove. I've even heard tower guys say over a few drinks that they sometimes try to sneak it in that they have no obligation to even remove the tower. After 30 years it's likely obsolete or nearing the end of its useful life anyway.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32899996)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 5:28 PM
Author: translucent messiness

this is correct. it costs about $75,000 in 2017 dollars to remove a full tower and the foundation. factor in inflation over 30 years and you're basically paying them for the tower.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32900062)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 5:34 PM
Author: Cowardly faggotry

why would you want to remove the tower? Can rig it for your own use or sell billboards on that shit

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32900121)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 5:39 PM
Author: Heady out-of-control gunner theater

Because (a) it sounds like it's no where near a road, (b) in many jurisdictions billboards are almost as highly regulated as strip clubs. They arent going to give you permission to put a giant fucking sign on a jury rigged rusting out cell phone tower and (c) the sign company isn't going to want to put a valuable giant sign on a jury rigged rusting out cell phone tower.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32900198)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 5:53 PM
Author: Provocative maroon police squad site

"They arent going to give you permission to put a giant fucking sign on a jury rigged rusting out cell phone tower and (c) the sign company isn't going to want to put a valuable giant sign on a jury rigged rusting out cell phone tower. "

this made me chortle out loud in my office. ty

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32900347)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 24th, 2017 10:13 AM
Author: smoky curious theater stage sound barrier



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32905360)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 24th, 2017 2:48 AM
Author: stubborn casino mexican

Huge Christmas tree.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32904335)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 24th, 2017 2:54 AM
Author: stubborn casino mexican

Best tree house ever.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32904343)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 5:42 PM
Author: Heady out-of-control gunner theater

Oh and if you ever want to subdivide and sell you have a giant fuckkng tower to deal with as well as some prole cunt who thinks she's going to get cancer.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32900237)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 8:39 PM
Author: Obsidian stag film

that's not how it works, dude.

you discount the future cost to the present.

let's say the real discount rate is 1%. that means the present value of the cost of tearing it down after 30 years is $56K or so.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32901861)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 5:52 PM
Author: peach effete dog poop

i have a lot of land so its not really a worry. This would be in an area i check once a year or so

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32900332)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 5:30 PM
Author: Lime Seedy Shrine Gaping

ask for 20,000 ETH instead

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32900082)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 5:31 PM
Author: Federal stirring indian lodge

C A N C E R clause dude: seriously, demand something re: cancer

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32900093)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 5:33 PM
Author: translucent messiness

lol at anyone telling him to demand anything. he doesn't own all the land in the world

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32900108)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 5:34 PM
Author: Cocky Principal's Office Hunting Ground

MAKE | GOOD | DEALS

they'll reject

so then say FMV in your estimate is higher than what offered, get a few extra bucks out of them

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32900124)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 5:36 PM
Author: translucent messiness

no they won't. they'll just make their offer to a different guy down the road and hope he's dumber and more prole/short-sighted

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32900141)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 5:36 PM
Author: Cocky Principal's Office Hunting Ground

well this presumes there's not someone immediately next door, obviously

think of it like oil drilling

there's a reason they pick parcel A or B

but yeah if this guy has someone next door I might not be a HARDBALLER

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32900151)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 5:39 PM
Author: translucent messiness

there's about one cell tower every square half mile in a densely populated area. do you know how many acres that is?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32900193)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 5:39 PM
Author: Cocky Principal's Office Hunting Ground

not doing subthread wasteland here, aspie, I think u get my point and I certainly acknowledge with the facts on your side, it would make sense to take the offer



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32900200)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 8:26 PM
Author: Magical potus milk

Ask for more

Demand more for every co-tenant

Get a decent inflation rate increase every 5 years

They pay increased property tax

Check with your homeowners. They pay if you need a rider

They pay to restore the grounds to like new condition

They indemnify and have duty to defend any administrative actions (zoning, environmental, etc.)

They indemnify and have duty to defend any civil actions

They maintain access road

Probably more I'm not thinking of. Better check with a realtor, ask how it affects resale value.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32901748)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 8:32 PM
Author: stubborn casino mexican

And they give him Boost Mobile FOR LIFE.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32901784)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 8:35 PM
Author: Magical potus milk

With unlimited data.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32901825)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 8:34 PM
Author: swashbuckling at-the-ready temple circlehead

LJL. I've handled some of these deals. The cell company invariably ends up fucking the property owner.

OP, if you decide to do it, negotiate the actual cost of utilities, recalculated every X months, as an addition to any rents, and make the cell company install and use a separate meter (better) or third-party submeter (worse) for their power usage. You don't want them on your meter if you can help it - they run up your KW draw as well as your kWh usage. If you don't understand the difference, you need to do more research before you sign anything. Include utilities taxes, fees, etc as part of the deal. Also, make them pay for all maintenance, indemnify you for any damage, repair, environmental issues, noise, etc., and include a termination clause you can execute. A five-year lease with renewal options is probably better than 30 years. Then promptly stay on top of that shit and evict them the second things go sour - you can usually renegotiate for better terms at the threat of a UD suit.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32901812)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 8:41 PM
Author: Obsidian stag film

great advice. worth $10ks im sure.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32901887)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 8:43 PM
Author: Electric jet-lagged mad-dog skullcap trailer park

Sounds like he also has to get the other side to cover his legal fees

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32901920)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 9:02 PM
Author: swashbuckling at-the-ready temple circlehead

of course.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32902100)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 9:03 PM
Author: peach effete dog poop

I imagine this is all boilerplate stuff they do these all the time, of couse they pay utilities etc

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32902112)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 9:03 PM
Author: swashbuckling at-the-ready temple circlehead

you imagine wrong. they usually try to pay out a fixed sum, or a fixed monthly utilities payment when the actual utilities costs increase regularly.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32902120)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 9:04 PM
Author: peach effete dog poop

Crazy, good to know

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32902129)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 9:41 PM
Author: Magical potus milk

I helped somebody do one of these once. Lease was like 30 pages, and had none of the stuff I listed above or that mccheese is talking about. U have to ask for all of it, their boilerplate lease is one sided as fuck.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32902470)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 11:26 PM
Author: Heady out-of-control gunner theater

In a few of the ones I've done the provisions aren't boilerplate per de but are one sided and unless you have a good industry knowledgeable attorney push hard for you they'll say they can't change the majority of it because "bullshit, bullshit and bullshit". They can and do change them.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32903368)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 23rd, 2017 11:29 PM
Author: tantric library

also they don't include repair and takeaway costs, so when they finish with the tower or it breaks in a storm, they just abandon it and the land owner is left with worthless shit on his property that costs a fuckton to remove

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32903386)



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Date: March 24th, 2017 10:07 AM
Author: Obsidian stag film

lol @ assuming kindness and decency from a corporation

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32905329)



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Date: March 24th, 2017 2:51 AM
Author: red self-centered shitlib sanctuary

Woah Cr friend!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32904339)



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Date: March 24th, 2017 10:07 AM
Author: Odious stage community account

If you play hardball, they will go next door. Now you have a giant cell tower next door (and thus cancer) but no 400k.

All in all, YOUR fucked.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3562000&forum_id=2#32905328)