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Thinking of quitting GC and pursuing PhD Econ
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Date: October 19th, 2017 12:01 AM Author: alcoholic ivory corner Talk me out of it bros
I'd have to go back and retake math/econ classes since I don't remember much. This time, I'd actually have to work hard to get straight As. Then spend the next 5 years after that getting a PhD econ - goal is to work for the Fed or become an Econ prof - CR?
Hopefully, I'd never have to GC again |
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Date: November 6th, 2017 1:09 AM Author: angry stimulating ticket booth cuckold Protip: you’re not smart enough
You can’t just snap your fingers and get s PhD esp in an insanely competitive field like Econ. |
Date: October 19th, 2017 12:03 AM Author: 180 lake psychic I thought about doing this myself. I talked with several well known econ profs and they all advised me not to do it, that econ has its own problems and that I should just focus on the law. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3768377&forum_id=2#34476611) |
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Date: October 19th, 2017 12:03 AM Author: alcoholic ivory corner What kind of problems? they prob have no idea what the practice of law entails
also Econ PhDs are one of the few PhDs that still have high employment rates and can get a job in industry if they need to (my last resort) |
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Date: October 19th, 2017 12:06 AM Author: 180 lake psychic I have strings of emails with them describing why I don't like law (mostly grunt work and meaningless) and their responses of "well, get used to the same," and advising me to find my own niche in law that will be meaningful, that it isn't worth the opportunity cost of 5+ years, etc. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3768377&forum_id=2#34476631) |
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Date: October 19th, 2017 12:08 AM Author: alcoholic ivory corner law is also super high stress at many places
i doubt econ is - there is no real liability for fucking up analyses unless you work for the fed |
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Date: October 19th, 2017 12:09 AM Author: 180 lake psychic maybe, but I basically came to the conclusion that I was hoping to hide from the world for several years doing "scholarship" and that I'd end up in the same place after I graduated from a program unless maybe I could stay in academia (which is a lot less certain than getting a job in industry)
and inhouse law is not stressful. it's just kind of dumb. which academia econ is probably the same. |
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Date: October 19th, 2017 12:20 AM Author: alcoholic ivory corner yeah, id on't know
i don't like the practice of law
if i were you, maybe i'd just stack cash and start a business
substantively, i liked math/econ much more than law though. i regret going into this profession daily.
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Date: October 19th, 2017 12:25 AM Author: 180 lake psychic Same. I legit enjoy reading Econ blogs in a fundamentally more satisfying way that I don't enjoy reading law blogs. At the same time, however, I recognize that a day job in econ is not going to be the same as reading about the most interesting issues in Econ, in the same way that a day job in law is not the same as reading Volokh Conspiracy. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3768377&forum_id=2#34476755) |
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Date: October 19th, 2017 12:28 AM Author: garnet area telephone See my Q below please. I don't think you know what you're getting into. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3768377&forum_id=2#34476780) |
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Date: October 19th, 2017 12:33 AM Author: alcoholic ivory corner Yeah, maybe. It might be the same shit, but with numbers. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3768377&forum_id=2#34476811) |
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Date: October 19th, 2017 12:03 AM Author: Seedy Hall thinking of quitting GC to devote my life to the study of GC (xo poa (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3768377&forum_id=2#34476612) |
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Date: October 19th, 2017 12:12 AM Author: fear-inspiring rigor deer antler age? current job?
dumb if you'd need to spend time and money to go back and take math classes. if that's the case you're probably not getting into a t15-20. even dumber if you're not just a few years out of college.
and if you're not in a t15 your chances of getting a decent academic gig are not great.
would ultimately be spending 6-8 years + lost income to go back to industry. |
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Date: October 19th, 2017 12:18 AM Author: alcoholic ivory corner lawyer
late 20s to early 30s
i majored in math and econ, but forgot a ton of my classes and also didn't do that great in my econ classes due to laziness (got As in my math classes). i'd have to retake everything and get a 4.0.
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Date: October 19th, 2017 12:21 AM Author: fear-inspiring rigor deer antler ug and ls tier?
if you didn't get great grades in your econ classes the first time around then retaking them won't automatically "make up" for that, admissions is too competitive at top schools |
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Date: October 19th, 2017 12:23 AM Author: alcoholic ivory corner T 15 undergrad, T 14 law school
I was lazy as hell in undergrad. basically didn't study. I pretty much just half assed everything. Still graduated with like a 3.8 GPA (but not great in econ)
When I did study, I'd get As though |
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Date: October 19th, 2017 12:26 AM Author: fear-inspiring rigor deer antler you would not get into a great program
your best shot would be if you were able to show demonstrated interest in research since law school. like RAing for an econ prof during law school or having a law + econ publication since graduating. absent that your application would look more like a guy taking a flier at a profession change (which it would be) rather than a good potential researcher. adcoms don't like that.
as it stands i doubt you'd get top 15-20 |
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Date: October 19th, 2017 12:27 AM Author: alcoholic ivory corner even if I retook everything and got a 4.0? and then did research for an econ prof while retaking?
fwiw, my undergrad was pretty rigorous for a school that isn't Caltech/MIT...i mean there wasn't much grade inflation and everything was curved to a B- |
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Date: October 19th, 2017 12:36 AM Author: fear-inspiring rigor deer antler nobody gives a shit man, it's way too competitive. only way you get into chymps is if you have close to infallible grades and good research history, and good recs obviously. and if you're not in chymps + berkeley and northwestern (maybe nyu and penn too if we're generous) you really have a poor shot at getting a job as a prof.
can't just gloss over poor past grades at these places. definitely not with just one-off classes at least. a full-time masters might help a little but lol @ doing that when you're already in law, and it would just solidify you in the higher mid-tier rather than get you further.
they *will* see you as a job-switcher and not a potential researcher, and they won't like it. |
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Date: October 19th, 2017 12:39 AM Author: garnet area telephone Consigning this. Though it seems he just wants to do industry, in which case most any PhD granting institution should work if he can network and sell himself.
Seems like a very sub-optimal use of time though. You could do it but like ... why? The picture you're painting in your head is pure fantasy. You'd just be grinding through regressions instead of briefs. And you're paying 5+ years of opportunity cost and (for a masters) tuition to do so. |
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Date: October 19th, 2017 12:42 AM Author: fear-inspiring rigor deer antler some ok mid-level program would give him a spot for being a decently well-educated lawyer looking to do government-related stuff but they would not even give him full $$$ because again they'd see him as someone switching industries (and as someone with some money already) rather than as a potential researcher.
and not working towards academia would defeat the purpose for him. even if he got this spot he'd have very poor chances at academia. |
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Date: October 19th, 2017 12:45 AM Author: garnet area telephone I actually know one guy who pulled this off almost perfectly and got lucky and landed at a mid-level LAC. So that's your absolute best outcome, OP.
Anyway, this is just him fantasizing aloud. But I like to play along. |
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Date: October 19th, 2017 12:21 AM Author: cerebral incel base You would absolutely not get into a decent Ph.D. program (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3768377&forum_id=2#34476733) |
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Date: October 19th, 2017 12:23 AM Author: alcoholic ivory corner If I get straight As the second time around, I might
Biglaw beats a work ethic into you
In retrospect, undergrad was really fucking easy and if you worked like 1/200th the amount of time you put into biglaw, you'd get a 4.0 |
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Date: October 19th, 2017 12:31 AM Author: cerebral incel base If you get a 4.0 in your post bacc AND you have some good research AND 180 recs from professors then maybe you could get into ur big state program. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3768377&forum_id=2#34476797) |
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Date: October 19th, 2017 12:31 AM Author: alcoholic ivory corner So the fact that I went to a top undergrad and top law school and worked in biglaw means nothing in academia?
I swear at least a quarter of the guys who taught me in undergrad were career changers and they ended up in a top tier program.
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Date: October 19th, 2017 12:35 AM Author: garnet area telephone Most of that, no. You are admitted to PhD programs based on your potential to do good economic research. The name of your undergrad and the fact you went law school don't help you there. It's a nice story and demonstrates good work ethic, but that's not enough.
I know an ex-military bro who made a similar switch to academia and the person you're replying to is roughly correct about what you'd have to do. Though you could probably do marginally better than big state U if you plan correctly. |
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Date: October 19th, 2017 12:36 AM Author: alcoholic ivory corner What about working for the Fed? Is it hard to cop? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3768377&forum_id=2#34476824) |
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Date: October 19th, 2017 12:40 AM Author: garnet area telephone Yes but I think school dependent. Check the placements for the schools you'd be applying to. You'll see what grads end up doing.
Doing this would actually be very helpful in adjusting your expectations. |
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Date: October 19th, 2017 12:43 AM Author: fear-inspiring rigor deer antler chances are he will end up looking at placements for schools by which he will be rejected (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3768377&forum_id=2#34476859) |
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Date: October 19th, 2017 12:46 AM Author: garnet area telephone Go to whatever USWNR ranks 50-60 and look at their placements OP. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3768377&forum_id=2#34476877) |
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Date: October 19th, 2017 12:48 AM Author: alcoholic ivory corner Fwiw i know someone who switched from biglaw to top 5 phd in a non econ field. Is your advice tailored to econ and/or my grades? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3768377&forum_id=2#34476889) |
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Date: October 19th, 2017 12:49 AM Author: fear-inspiring rigor deer antler yes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3768377&forum_id=2#34476890) |
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Date: October 19th, 2017 12:49 AM Author: alcoholic ivory corner Is top tier econ much harder than say history to get into? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3768377&forum_id=2#34476895) |
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Date: October 19th, 2017 12:52 AM Author: garnet area telephone I don't know how to get into history programs, but I know the formula for Econ and you don't fit it. Your best shot is a decent mid-ranked program. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3768377&forum_id=2#34476912) |
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Date: October 19th, 2017 12:53 AM Author: fear-inspiring rigor deer antler (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3768377&forum_id=2#34476919) |
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Date: October 19th, 2017 12:53 AM Author: fear-inspiring rigor deer antler yes
t3 in any field can be "hard" to get into in the sense that if you don't have a near-perfect shit then you'll be a reach at that level
but econ is much more competitive. one of the few academic fields outside of the hard sciences that has good professional prospects if you don't get academia. if you're super smart and "good at philosophy" you might still not want to take the gamble of trying for academia in philosophy by doing a phd. many more people take that gamble in econ.
the culture is very different from that of a humanities/soft social science program. it's not like other departments which are full of people who just "shunned" gc like you're describing. it's full of people who strove really heard specifically for econ and who would be ok with using it as a platform to move into gc work. |
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Date: October 19th, 2017 12:55 AM Author: garnet area telephone Note also he's still ducking my question about his math background. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3768377&forum_id=2#34476927) |
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Date: October 19th, 2017 12:50 AM Author: garnet area telephone Tell me all the upper level math classes you took as an undergrad and the grades you got. Real analysis in particular. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3768377&forum_id=2#34476903) |
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Date: October 19th, 2017 12:54 AM Author: fear-inspiring rigor deer antler the real analysis thing is flame but he's fucked anyways (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3768377&forum_id=2#34476922) |
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Date: October 19th, 2017 12:56 AM Author: garnet area telephone Yes, but I want to give him space to craft this flame/see exactly how fucked he is. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3768377&forum_id=2#34476933) |
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