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Does basically nobody strive to make biglaw partner at top firms these days?
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Date: November 13th, 2017 3:04 PM Author: Vivacious rigor clown At my V5, I don't know a single associate who thinks they have a realistic chance of making partner. On top of that, I don't know any who really think it would even be that desirable. You bust your ass for years to make partner, but you can still be fired at the drop of a hat.
My firm routinely fires/de-equitizes partners. If you are in the red for a single year, the firm cuts partners salaries by 50%. After a couple years of that, a partner can be making less than a first year associate. Then after that they can be fired on only a few months' notice. What's the point? |
Date: November 13th, 2017 3:05 PM Author: big salmon hospital have you tasted the breakfast bro (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3795929&forum_id=2#34677208) |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 3:05 PM Author: Stirring Chad lol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3795929&forum_id=2#34677210) |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 3:05 PM Author: Arousing casino No, and if they do, it certainly isn't equity.
LOL at the notion of greedy boomers sharing any of their record profits per partner. |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 3:07 PM Author: Vivacious rigor clown My firm doesn't have non-equity partners. They call non-equity partners "counsel," which is basically just a glorified senior associate. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3795929&forum_id=2#34677228) |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 3:18 PM Author: Arousing casino Lol, bro, they certainly do have non-equity partners. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3795929&forum_id=2#34677322) |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 4:01 PM Author: motley national No, they don't Every partner at my firm is an equity partner. Which is why they make so few. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3795929&forum_id=2#34677739) |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 4:41 PM Author: Arousing casino *Boomer hands you $1 in Monopoly money with "equity" scribbled at the top*
"How's it feel, big man on campus now!"
*slaps you on the back and walks off* |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 8:17 PM Author: glassy chest-beating spot my firm has equity and non-equity partners. You make non-equity first, then equity (at best) after two years as non-equity. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3795929&forum_id=2#34679999) |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 3:06 PM Author: Nubile Sooty Dog Poop Sweet Tailpipe I know a couple who want partnership, but they are fine with going in house anyway.
Most people don't want to become a partner becuase frankly practicing law at a firm sucks and nobody wants to work that much. Junior/service partners still get shat on and still work insane hours. At a certain point, the money just isn't worth the shitty QOL. |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 3:08 PM Author: Vivacious rigor clown It's such an insane business. Instead of being happy with $1 million PPP, the firm has to gun for $2 million, $3 million, etc. and make everybody in the entire firm miserable except for the handful of top-performing partners. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3795929&forum_id=2#34677240) |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 3:12 PM Author: Nubile Sooty Dog Poop Sweet Tailpipe CR, unless you are a rainmaker (who pretty much doesn't work), working at a firm is uniformly terrible
not to mention the billable hour requirements keep going up and up and up. a partner told me that in his 30 years at a firm, he works 3 times as much now as when he first started (in part due to PPP expectations increasing, and in part due to email/tech making him accessible 24/7 to clients). You are literally expected to bill like 700 more hours now than you were 35 years ago. |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 3:18 PM Author: motley national And yet business model never seems to implode... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3795929&forum_id=2#34677318) |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 3:23 PM Author: adventurous hunting ground boltzmann Bingo. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3795929&forum_id=2#34677357) |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 4:14 PM Author: domesticated area And those top-performing partners will claim to have suffered the same when they were associates, but that's misleading or outright false (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3795929&forum_id=2#34677934) |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 4:18 PM Author: motley national The funny thing is that the junior partners/non-rainmakers often have things far worse than associates. Tons of expenses, wife and kids spending like crazy, and a compensation committee going after you like commissars from the politburo. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3795929&forum_id=2#34677987) |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 6:50 PM Author: sepia thriller coffee pot indian lodge Gotta keep up the stats or the rainmakers will go elsewhere. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3795929&forum_id=2#34679334) |
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Date: November 14th, 2017 8:00 PM Author: vibrant church Correct. Which is why the model is long-run unsustainable at least at the current industry size (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3795929&forum_id=2#34687907) |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 3:07 PM Author: Fuchsia range pozpig You have to be mentally ill. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3795929&forum_id=2#34677233) |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 3:09 PM Author: poppy bawdyhouse if what you say is true RE no one making partner, why do people strive for these firms? Just move to smaller towns and do bigregionallaw and have a good chance of making partner if you stick it out for 7-8 years. I know a bunch of guys doing this (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3795929&forum_id=2#34677245) |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 3:12 PM Author: motley national I don't think law students really realize the dynamics. They just gun for the best firm they can get into. If I were doing it again I would not have gone to a V5. I'd have gone to the chill V50 with a specialty area. But once you are here it is hard to lateral down. The people you've worked with will think you're a failure and the people at the new firm will think you're some lazy POS who wants to scam and not work hard. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3795929&forum_id=2#34677263) |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 3:13 PM Author: Nubile Sooty Dog Poop Sweet Tailpipe v50 still work a ton of hours, the lifestyle isn't much better, at least in major markets (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3795929&forum_id=2#34677277) |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 3:15 PM Author: motley national Yeah, and since you have lower billing rates you have to bill more hours than you would at the V5. At the V5 the average associate bills about 1850 with that including a couple hundred hours of pro bono. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3795929&forum_id=2#34677294) |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 4:49 PM Author: demanding dilemma ceo Lol. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3795929&forum_id=2#34678275) |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 5:04 PM Author: Vivacious rigor clown ? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3795929&forum_id=2#34678393) |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 4:11 PM Author: provocative trailer park weed whacker i'm at a v50-60 firm in DC and about to make partner. i was nojerbpwnd when i graduated in the mid-2000s and worked my way up here from shitlaw.
i figure (assuming my goal is to practice at a firm for an entire career), this was a much better long-term outcome than me landing a prestigious biglaw jerb right out of law school. |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 4:17 PM Author: motley national You're probably right about that. What's mood among the partners at your firm? Are you safe and set for life once you get the brass ring, or do you have the Sword of Damocles over your head? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3795929&forum_id=2#34677974) |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 4:20 PM Author: provocative trailer park weed whacker i don't think they shitcan partners so i guess relatively safe. definitely haven't heard of there being a shitload of pressure on you and you get fired after a bad year.
i've also talked to a partner in my group pretty candidly (as in, doing coke together at his apartment in LA) and he's confided in me that he's a service partner with zero business 20 years into his career and he is safe as safe can be. i think he makes in the 500k range (but is based out of a midwest office).
i work for a huge rainmaker, though, and if he were to get hit by a bus tomorrow i have to imagine i'd eventually be gone. he keeps like 10 people busy, including a few partners. potential to inherit clients, but if something catastrophic happens to him it'll be a bad situation. |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 4:32 PM Author: motley national GL. keep him healthy. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3795929&forum_id=2#34678113) |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 4:34 PM Author: provocative trailer park weed whacker i will do whatever i can to ensure he doesn't die.
honestly, i am in my late 30s, wife and i have a kid with another on the way. total invested assets are around $675k and growing fairly rapidly. if i can hit $2m in the next few years i'll be fine just saying fuck all this shit in my 40s and driving a truck or something. |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 4:35 PM Author: vigorous ocher tank theater how much do you hope to make your first year? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3795929&forum_id=2#34678140) |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 4:36 PM Author: provocative trailer park weed whacker like $310-320? i am at a firm that pays market to first years but not lockstep, and the compression is pretty shitty. i'm about to make partner and make $275k.
also, i understand that whatever i make, my take-home is going to be about the same next year as it is this year because of the capital contribution, mandatory $3k/mo in retirement savings, increased taxes and all that horseshit. |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 4:39 PM Author: vigorous ocher tank theater what's the $3k a month in retirement savings? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3795929&forum_id=2#34678177) |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 4:41 PM Author: provocative trailer park weed whacker i haven't been able to get a clear answer because lawyers are so financially illiterate, but from what i can tell it is in the nature of a 401(k), but a vehicle with a much higher contribution limit. and you can still put into the 401(k) plan.
apparently the firm makes you contribute because they don't want people booming it up with harleys and exotic vacations and shit and unable to retire.
the way it was first described to me, it sounded like a defined benefit pension but that isn't the case.
if i get dat breakfast, i am apparently going to get flown out to the flagship office, where they will explain to me the retirement setup and the myriad other ways i am getting financially assfucked as a first year partner. |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 4:44 PM Author: vigorous ocher tank theater oh yeah, it is probably just profit participation that you can put into your 401k.
At my firm all of the partners agree to put another $23k into their 401k's in addition to the $18.5k....and we could agree to do more, but some of the older partners don't want to put any more in their 401k than necessary at this point and we all have to agree to do the exact same amount. |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 4:43 PM Author: Vivacious rigor clown Lol. Senior associates make over 400k at my firm. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3795929&forum_id=2#34678220) |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 4:46 PM Author: provocative trailer park weed whacker yea, not only are we below market on salaries but bonuses. i get like 20k as a senior associate ljl.
but i am a traditional labor bro so i'm happy with my outcome. |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 11:13 PM Author: Startled mad cow disease How do you like Seyfarth? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3795929&forum_id=2#34681369) |
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Date: November 14th, 2017 3:45 PM Author: provocative trailer park weed whacker we're above seyfarth in the vault rankings, but you aren't terribly off.
edit: I just looked and seyfarth pays $165k to first years in all major markets except for NYC. the pay situation here is far better. christ. |
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Date: November 14th, 2017 8:05 PM Author: vibrant church It's one of the great information asymmetries feeding the continuing influx of students into law schools, right up there with "a law degree is portable--you can go anywhere with it!" which is true only in the same sense that you can go anywhere with a sense of earnest desperation, a greyhound bus ticket, and a willingness to kill. Incoming associates, let alone students, have no idea how rare the prospects of equity have become within the V50/25, even vs. a single generation ago. (Though this is somewhat counterbalanced by the rise of long-term nonequity.) And the model depends on that ignorance. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3795929&forum_id=2#34687942) |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 3:12 PM Author: federal aphrodisiac place of business It’s honestly just the path of least resistance for t20 law school bros. They literally come to campus and take you out to nice meals and then fly you to New York and make you feel important. Then they pay you forty grand for a summer and continue to make you feel important. You go along with it Nd BAM you wake up at age 31, a shell of your former self, tired and beaten with with no appreciable skills. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3795929&forum_id=2#34677264) |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 9:55 PM Author: cyan 180 market boiling water mods! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3795929&forum_id=2#34680777) |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 3:13 PM Author: motley national But most people just cash their large paychecks for several years then go in house. I guess that's the one great aspect of a top firm. You can get the best in-house jobs. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3795929&forum_id=2#34677272) |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 3:14 PM Author: Nubile Sooty Dog Poop Sweet Tailpipe even a lot of in house jobs (depending on where) work you to death these days. it's hard to find a decent paying, high QOL in house job. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3795929&forum_id=2#34677289) |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 3:16 PM Author: motley national In-house seems to have the advantage of (usually) being more stable. It also has the advantage of not getting last-minute requests from clients all the time on Friday evening. If you do get those requests, you can send them to outside counsel. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3795929&forum_id=2#34677311) |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 3:15 PM Author: Talented slap-happy roast beef garrison Hows Skadden? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3795929&forum_id=2#34677293) |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 4:14 PM Author: idiotic main people (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3795929&forum_id=2#34677931) |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 4:24 PM Author: shaky contagious stage nowag Ran here. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3795929&forum_id=2#34678042) |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 4:33 PM Author: motley national OP could be talking about any of dozens of V5 firms... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3795929&forum_id=2#34678119) |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 4:34 PM Author: Mahogany galvanic persian stage (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3795929&forum_id=2#34678125) |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 4:58 PM Author: Talented slap-happy roast beef garrison (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3795929&forum_id=2#34678338) |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 4:50 PM Author: demanding dilemma ceo This is all the V5. Honestly you’re most likely to make partner at Wachtell, followed by Skadden. Cravath makes like 1-2 a year. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3795929&forum_id=2#34678282) |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 4:55 PM Author: Talented slap-happy roast beef garrison I was referring to this part:
My firm routinely fires/de-equitizes partners. If you are in the red for a single year, the firm cuts partners salaries by 50%. After a couple years of that, a partner can be making less than a first year associate.
That’s definitely Skadden |
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Date: November 14th, 2017 8:06 PM Author: vibrant church How dare you (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3795929&forum_id=2#34687947) |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 4:04 PM Author: umber meetinghouse Kirkland makes like 500 new partners every year. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3795929&forum_id=2#34677774) |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 4:08 PM Author: motley national all non-equity fake partners, 95% of whom are pushed out after three years (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3795929&forum_id=2#34677835) |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 4:18 PM Author: House-broken claret athletic conference coldplay fan (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3795929&forum_id=2#34677988) |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 4:33 PM Author: Talented slap-happy roast beef garrison /*\MISINFORMATION ALERT/*\ (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3795929&forum_id=2#34678116) |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 4:34 PM Author: motley national https://www.law.com/americanlawyer/almID/1202799986284/?slreturn=20171013163408 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3795929&forum_id=2#34678128) |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 4:35 PM Author: motley national Kirkland & Ellis announced last week that 97 new lawyers will be joining the firm’s income partnership. That partnership tier is relatively welcoming—both compared with other Am Law 100 firms, and especially compared to Kirkland’s equity partnership.
Consider this: Kirkland had 359 equity partners last year, according to The American Lawyer’s reporting. The firm currently lists about 975 total partners.
The simple fact is that most income partners—or “nonshare partners” in Kirkland lingo—will not go on to reap the windfall that comes with an equity stake in the high-powered firm. But just how many nonequity partners don’t make the cut? And what happens to them? |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 4:40 PM Author: Talented slap-happy roast beef garrison BTW... this poast was just me paying homage to KIRKLAND SHATTERS, May he Rest In Peace. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3795929&forum_id=2#34678187) |
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Date: November 14th, 2017 12:10 AM Author: lilac principal's office party of the first part Too soon (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3795929&forum_id=2#34681752) |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 4:05 PM Author: House-broken claret athletic conference coldplay fan jews and boomers have pulled up the ladders, hth (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3795929&forum_id=2#34677784) |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 4:52 PM Author: demanding dilemma ceo Gen X partner was once reading a NYT article about GS having a leverage ratio of 100:1 and told car traveling to hearing that the partnership needed to pull up the ladders. I chuckled. I hadn’t slept that night. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3795929&forum_id=2#34678295) |
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Date: November 14th, 2017 7:59 PM Author: naked brunch (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3795929&forum_id=2#34687893) |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 8:45 PM Author: motley national (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3795929&forum_id=2#34680207) |
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Date: November 13th, 2017 11:44 PM Author: Beady-eyed faggot firefighter corn cake Yeah, "all-equity" for the most part is BS. Firms are always finding ways to starve out low performers. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3795929&forum_id=2#34681588) |
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Date: November 14th, 2017 12:02 AM Author: Insane gold nibblets This thread makes biglaw sound gay (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3795929&forum_id=2#34681703) |
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Date: November 14th, 2017 11:39 AM Author: motley national No truth in that, right? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3795929&forum_id=2#34684402) |