Not a college football fan, but how can one argue Alabama as a playoff team?
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Poast new message in this thread
Date: December 4th, 2017 12:21 PM Author: pearly histrionic associate
Isn't this one of the failings of the conference championship game?
Auburn just beat Alabama, and then got crushed by Georgia.
Doesn't Alabama have a HUGE advantage over other teams by not having to play a conference championship game?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3817712&forum_id=2#34835966) |
Date: December 4th, 2017 12:31 PM Author: emerald rigor roast beef
if you want the "four best teams" in the playoff, how can you argue against them being in it? Assuming (as we have seen a few times now) that the committee doesn't view being in the conference championship game as being a pre-req to this. Alabama has one loss on the road to a very strong team, who lost to a stronger team in the championship game. Alabama has one loss. No other team outside of the 4 chosen really has an argument over Alabama.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3817712&forum_id=2#34836056)
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Date: December 4th, 2017 12:36 PM Author: abnormal orchestra pit therapy
Football isnt figure skating, one teams ability can only be evaluated when taking into account their opponent.
Alabama’s opponents this year were not good teams. The only good team they played resulted in a loss.
Just recognize that Alabama got in because they are Alabama, not because there is suifficjent evidence to support then being one of the four best teams.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3817712&forum_id=2#34836103) |
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Date: December 4th, 2017 2:04 PM Author: pearly histrionic associate
Let's assume there are no conference championship games.
Who is in the playoff today, Alabama, Wisconsin, neither or both?
If your answer is Wisconsin, why do any of your points matter?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3817712&forum_id=2#34836921) |
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Date: December 4th, 2017 2:23 PM Author: pearly histrionic associate
i hear you, but all of your points refer to the reg season. all i'm saying that assuming no conf championship game, you'd likely have Wisconsin in and Alabama out.
And which is worse, a reg season loss to a 2-loss team, or a conf championship loss to a 2-loss team?
finally, i know the conf championship game is a risk -- that's my point. Alabama avoided that risk entirely.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3817712&forum_id=2#34837073) |
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Date: December 4th, 2017 1:15 PM Author: ebony swashbuckling library sneaky criminal
Yeah it was lucky for them. But same thing happened with OSU last year. And Bama also had to go on the road and play a game 5x as hard as any game Wisconsin played all year.
It's not a perfect system. But no one wants a perfect system.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3817712&forum_id=2#34836509) |
Date: December 4th, 2017 12:33 PM Author: avocado hateful stead knife
I am pissed they got in.
They really need to punish teams for playing TTT schedules.
SEC is not what it was 8 years ago.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3817712&forum_id=2#34836071) |
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Date: December 4th, 2017 12:38 PM Author: avocado hateful stead knife
Flame.
Honestly -- the reason i'm not really that pissed, is because I think NO TEAMS had a good claim for #4.
They should have just had a 3 team playoff with Clemson gettting a bye.,
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3817712&forum_id=2#34836130) |
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Date: December 4th, 2017 12:41 PM Author: pearly histrionic associate
>> its retarded and its one of the reason conference championships should be given no consideration. <<
i'd agree with that if you made it both ways (i.e. neither a win nor a loss mattered).
>> but the fact that a 1-loss team didn't play for their conference championship should be disregarded completely. <<
to me, the biggest issue is that they avoided playing a tough team and taking a potential loss.
like, if the Big 10 didn't have a conf championship game, Wisconsin would be in the playoff, right?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3817712&forum_id=2#34836157)
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Date: December 4th, 2017 12:45 PM Author: Curious heaven tattoo
Real talk: Clemson and Alabama are the two best teams in college football and it's 180 that they are going to play in the playoffs.
Real talk: we should be all thanking tOSU for exposing fraud Wisconsin hence kicking them out of the playoffs, Alabama is the only team in the country that has talent to beat Clemson.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3817712&forum_id=2#34836213) |
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Date: December 4th, 2017 1:05 PM Author: pearly histrionic associate
lmao how can you guys watch this shit without laughing?
1. um we think Alabama's schedule might be a little tougher than Wisconsin's
2. none of the same guys are around, but 3 years ago Alabama was pretty good!
lol, jfc what a retarded sport
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3817712&forum_id=2#34836414) |
Date: December 4th, 2017 12:46 PM Author: stirring home
I'm an Ohio State fan,
but I have a hard time having a problem with this
its seems like pretty similar to how Ohio State got in last year instead of Penn State
I actually think that Penn State had a better argument last year than Ohio State does this year, they beat Ohio State head to head
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3817712&forum_id=2#34836215) |
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Date: December 4th, 2017 12:52 PM Author: stirring home
Wisconsin and Bama have pretty similar resumes on strength of good wins
Are we not allowed to use the eye test and have an opinion as to which team is actually better though?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3817712&forum_id=2#34836280) |
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Date: December 4th, 2017 12:56 PM Author: pearly histrionic associate
Sure, but this seems pretty egregious. It's the inequality here that is really giving me pause.
If there are no conf championship games, Wisconsin is in and Alabama out, right?
If W and A both make their conf championship games and either both win or both lose, no matter what W > A for playoff purposes, right?
If you agree with the above you agree that Wisconsin starts out ahead of Alabama at the same point in the season (end of reg season).
If W and A both make their conf championship games and W loses but A wins, then A making the playoff is completely fair imo.
How, then, do you judge this situation? Imo you have to severely penalize Alabama for being able to avoid playing a top 5 team, as that is a HUGE benefit. Especially when you consider they they lost their last reg season game in order to qualify for the SEC championship.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3817712&forum_id=2#34836321) |
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Date: December 4th, 2017 1:03 PM Author: stirring home
I'm not sure
since expansion, the Big 10 is too big to give any weight to a conference championship without a championship game
Wisconsin didn't have to play Ohio State, Penn State, or even Michigan State to go undefeated
their best win was Northwestern
what should being the undefeated Big 10 West champ really earn you?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3817712&forum_id=2#34836406) |
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Date: December 4th, 2017 1:07 PM Author: ebony swashbuckling library sneaky criminal
I mean college football is very unfair in many ways.
Aabama had to go to Auburn. Wisconsin wouldn't be competitive in a game at Auburn. Why penalize Bama for that?
It's just the way it is and they factor all that in.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3817712&forum_id=2#34836436) |
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Date: December 4th, 2017 1:14 PM Author: ebony swashbuckling library sneaky criminal
No one gives a fuck what non-college football fans think.
The sport is special, and threads like these are one of the reasons why.
It's not a perfect system, like the NFL sponsored by GC, but people who follow the sport love it.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3817712&forum_id=2#34836500) |
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Date: December 4th, 2017 1:00 PM Author: stirring home
I had a discussion with Lemma Time back in October
http://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3775087&mc=56&forum_id=2#34533465
back then we were talking Ohio State relative to Notre Dame
I said back then, that I thought the best way to predict what the committee will do, is to ask what establishes their legitimacy
putting the best team (as in 'who would be the Vegas favorite?') in is what does that
is that fair? idk probably not, as far as I'm concerned, if you lose, you've left yourself in position to get screwed over
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if anyone especially should be bitch, mayyyybeee its UCF
I do legitimately thinks it fucked up how low the committee usually ranks the best couple non-power 5 schools
and I do hope one of those schools puts together enough of a resume to really force the committee's hand at some point over the next several years
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3817712&forum_id=2#34836372) |
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Date: December 4th, 2017 1:30 PM Author: stirring home
While the playoff system is generally regarded as a massive improvement over the BCS, it’s worth noting that the BCS system, which equally balanced computer rankings and human polls, gave non-power-conference teams a fair shake. Utah, then in the Mountain West, was ranked sixth when it won the 2005 Fiesta Bowl and when it beat Alabama in the 2009 Sugar Bowl. TCU, also then in the Mountain West, was ranked third when it won the 2011 Rose Bowl. And despite the historical underdog narrative, Boise State (no. 8) was ranked higher than Oklahoma (no. 10) entering the 2007 Fiesta Bowl. The computers had no bias against teams from lower-profile leagues, because they ranked teams based on cold, emotionless algorithms.
Taking a peek at the six computer ratings systems used during the BCS era, we see that they would have loved UCF in 2017. The Colley Matrix has the Knights ranked third. The Anderson-Hester ratings have them second. The Wolfe ratings have them first. Taking both computers and human polls into account, UCF would be ranked eighth right now, with an opportunity to move even higher after championship weekend.
The human playoff selection committee, however, certainly seems to have a bias. In the four years of the playoff era, UCF’s current no. 14 ranking is the second-highest that a non-power-conference team has ever placed. The lone team to go higher was Memphis in 2015, and the Tigers made it to only no. 13, a ranking they held for a single week.
https://www.theringer.com/2017/12/1/16723918/ucf-knights-college-football-playoff-group-five
You're probably wrong
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3817712&forum_id=2#34836633)
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Date: December 4th, 2017 1:33 PM Author: pearly histrionic associate
as a sports fan, i also have a hard time understanding how a team can play in a league and have ZERO chance at winning it.
Everyone who plays in the Masters can theoretically win it. Leicester City may not be favored to win the EPL, but they can do it.
what would a UCF have to do next year to win the National Championship?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3817712&forum_id=2#34836654) |
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Date: December 4th, 2017 1:45 PM Author: stirring home
yeah it's not ideal
what I would say, and we sort of talked about this above,
the sport seems to work over longer timelines
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that seems ridiculous, but I'm not totally sure it is, Bama gets a benefit because of what they did last year, and the year before
its a different team, but not a totally different team, approx. 3/4th of the team is the same from last year, and 1/2 of the team is the same from 2 years ago
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if a Group of 5 team ever gets in, its likely to be a multiyear process
its interesting to wonder if Houston would have gotten in last year if they had gone undefeated,
the year prior, they went 13-1 and beat FSU in the Peach Bowl
they started 2016 ranked #15 and had Oklahoma and Louisville on the schedule, and actually beat both of them, but couldn't beat all their conference rivals who weren't good enough to even count in most of the analysis in this thread
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one of these years, a team will repeat something like that, and maybe they'll get in
It'll be a good story when it happens
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3817712&forum_id=2#34836765) |
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Date: December 4th, 2017 3:01 PM Author: stirring home
your history is wrong,
for every Hawaii, there's been several Boises, Louisvilles, TCUs, Utahs, UCFs, and Houston's
generally non-power 5 conference schools have done great in those games
and when they've been moved up to tougher conferences, they've more than held their own, even through the 'impossibly grueling' regular season
I don't necessarily disagree that I have a hard time seeing this particular UCF team acquitting themselves well in a playoff game
as a class though, Group of Five schools have held their own on the big stage
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3817712&forum_id=2#34837384) |
Date: December 4th, 2017 1:10 PM Author: ebony swashbuckling library sneaky criminal
Here is a summary of why Bama is in for all the idiots in this thread:
Bama is favored by a couple over Clemson. OSU would have been at least +10 vs Clemson, and probably moved to +12 by the game.
If OSU's resume had been clearly better than Bama's they could have overcome being the inferior team. But it wasn't. 2 losses, one a very bad one vs a mediocre Iowa team, is an awful look.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3817712&forum_id=2#34836460) |
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Date: December 4th, 2017 1:29 PM Author: abnormal orchestra pit therapy
As a professed college football fan, you should be able to recognize that crazy things can and do happen every year. Last years blowout was one of those things and likely not indicative of talent.
Just like the shitty October field goal loss to MSU in 2015 kept the Buckeyes out of the playoffs despite easily being one of the four best teams with Elliott averaging like 10ypc.
Continuing to cite to the clemson loss is just disingenous.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3817712&forum_id=2#34836623) |
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Date: December 4th, 2017 3:19 PM Author: Curious heaven tattoo
In 2016, there were 10 victories of FCS schools over FBS schools. There were 9 in 2017. There were 9 in 2015 including UCF getting beat by Furman and South Carolina getting beat by Citadel (in which I was happily in attendance).
EAT A DICK PUMO.
EDIT: to directly respond, I never said "all FCS = all mediocre FBS." That was just you being a retard pumo.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3817712&forum_id=2#34837562) |
Date: December 4th, 2017 1:35 PM Author: Bateful laser beams
Alabama is in because they're one of the four best teams in the country. It's that simple and no one who seriously watches CFB will dispute that. People ITT are reading too much into the decision. The committee picks the best four, not necessarily the most deserving four. The only precedent they've set so far is they heavily weight really bad losses and really good wins. Teams like USC, tOSU, Miami don't have a claim to the national championship under those considerations.
I think people also underestimate how much the prior weeks rankings mattered. They aren't starting from scratch every week. They have to justify teams jumping other teams.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3817712&forum_id=2#34836670) |
Date: December 4th, 2017 1:36 PM Author: alcoholic parlor
The play off system should be about finding the best teams, regardless of conference, to play and compete for the national championship.
The play offs should be moved to 8 teams.
If there were any 8 spot play off, then it would look like this:
1. Alabama
2. Georgia
3. Auburn
4. Clemson
5. Oklahoma
6. Wisconsin
7. Ohio State
8. UCF
Bam! Done with and you don't have to listen to the insane ramblings of faggot tttOSU fans. Instead we'd get to hear them lamenting and raging over getting gaped by a SEC team.
SEC supremecy, eat shit niglets.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3817712&forum_id=2#34836682) |
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Date: December 4th, 2017 2:06 PM Author: pearly histrionic associate
fair point. as it stands now you totally can't lose to your rival in the last week of the regular season, miss out on a conference championship game, and then just slide into the playoff anyway.
------------------------------------------
seriously though, i still prefer the conference championship/bowl game format.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3817712&forum_id=2#34836933) |
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Date: December 4th, 2017 2:51 PM Author: Curious heaven tattoo
Arguably, the 4 team playoff has damages the regular season enough. Fucking Pac-12 champion USC feeling bad even though they own the Pac-12, tOSU fans in the same boat.
I understand if you are not a big CFB fan or big into gambling (or a TV executive) why a fair NC is such a big deal, but for a large swath of CFB fans a NC is not a big deal. Williams Brice sells 85k tickets to see the Gamecocks play even though they are not going to play for a NC. CFB was never set up to have a clean NC.
They only way to get a clean, fair NC game is to bump at least half of the FBS level down to FCS. FBS is too big with the current length of schedule.
In the meantime, I have no idea why there isn't a rule disqualifying a team from the CF playoffs if they don't win their division. It's a travesty and a joke that a team that doesn't win their conference division can play for the NC.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3817712&forum_id=2#34837291) |
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Date: December 4th, 2017 2:03 PM Author: Bateful laser beams
It will probably go to this but I don't like it.
-The #7 or #8 team doesn't really have a claim for a title shot like the #3 or #4.
-With the current playoff system, the conference championships often serve as a play-in game.
-Outside of mega rivalries, intra-season rematches are kinda TTT in CFB.
-Three post-season games is a lot in football.
I would support a six team with automatic bids for ACC, SEC, B10, B12 and two at larges.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3817712&forum_id=2#34836915) |
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Date: December 4th, 2017 2:08 PM Author: abnormal orchestra pit therapy
SEC supremacy Summarized.
1. overrank everyone in the conference
2. Dont drop SEC teams when they lose to one another, citing to the “quality of loss”
3.
4. Profit!
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3817712&forum_id=2#34836945) |
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Date: December 4th, 2017 3:42 PM Author: pearly histrionic associate
The problem with this perspective, at least from an outsider looking in, is that Alabama benefits from not having the risk of playing in the conf championship game.
Immediately before the Big 10 championship game, Wisconsin would 100% be in the playoff over Alabama. That means that Wisconsin has nothing to gain from the game, but everything to risk.
Alabama could basically sit home and watch Georgia, Wisconsin, and Oklahoma all risk their playoff hopes on an extra game, knowing that if any of them lost Alabama had a great chance to leapfrog them into the playoff. How on Earth is that a good result?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3817712&forum_id=2#34837797) |
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Date: December 4th, 2017 3:46 PM Author: soul-stirring green alpha
You're right that this particular scenario provides a somewhat perverse incentive.
But Alabama could potentially benefit from playing in the SEC championship, too. They control their destiny, whereas, after losing to Auburn, they were dependent on Wisconsin losing to have a shot. So it's not like there was any incentive to lose to Auburn.
So, in hindsight, we don't really know if they benefitted from not playing in the SEC Championship, since they might have beaten Georgia and got in anyway.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3817712&forum_id=2#34837831)
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Date: December 4th, 2017 3:57 PM Author: pearly histrionic associate
cr.
again, i don't mind if every playoff contender is playing in one, but a team like Alabama shouldn't benefit from not playing in it. as this shook out, there was no benefit for Alabama to have been in that game. they could have only lost position, not gained.
though i do dislike the concept of two bites at the apple w/r/t championship games. why should Auburn have to beat Georgia twice, for example?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3817712&forum_id=2#34837970) |
Date: December 4th, 2017 3:31 PM Author: Transparent Weed Whacker Gas Station
I hate tOSU too but playing "Mercer" in November should disqualify you from the postseason. Fraud faggots.
USC should have been in
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3817712&forum_id=2#34837693) |
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Date: December 4th, 2017 3:49 PM Author: Curious heaven tattoo
As the rules stand, FBS teams can play one FCS team a year and the game counts as a victory. It gives FBS teams one real gimme a year and FBS teams do really need these games to keep with their budget. There are a lot of FCS teams who are concerned that the NCAA will be changing the rules, which is why so many FCS teams have made the jump - Coastal Carolina, Georgia Southern, App State, etc. From what I understand, these school understood that their entire athletic budgets relied on getting that one 500k check for playing a FBS program, and that they didn't want to take the chance.
One of my best friends is a coach at a FCS school and they worry about the impact of the potential rule change constantly.
I could point out that there has been 28 FCS victories over FBS in the past three years and there have been some dramatic upsets over power teams by FCS schools, but really, the games are not usually competitive. When I saw Citadel play UNC last year, the game was over 4 minutes into the 1st quarter. Citadel didn't far much better against Clemson this year. They are not usually competitive games, but then again, there is not that much difference between upper-tier FCS teams and bottom dweller FBS teams.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3817712&forum_id=2#34837858) |
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Date: December 4th, 2017 4:03 PM Author: Curious heaven tattoo
Just to argue with you, what's the difference between a good FCS and playing Arkansas State, or Georgia State, or Eastern Michigan, or Miami of Ohio, etc. Hell, at least a good FCS will sometimes make a game of it, where the lower level FBS teams seem to exist solely to generate business for orthopedic surgeons and concussion counselors.
Look at some of the Big 10 schedules - they very rarely play FCS level (ehem 2015 Iowa), but they go play MAAC schools to the same result. What's the difference, really?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3817712&forum_id=2#34838022) |
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Date: December 4th, 2017 4:15 PM Author: Curious heaven tattoo
You know what? Everyone is playing by the same rules.
Not flame, the BCS had this figured out with the computer models, and teams who played shit schools (especially late) hurt their chances of getting into the BCS. In 2004 Auburn played Citadel and there was a lot of talk about that game preventing Auburn from getting into the NC game because of strength of schedule concerns.
The current playoff format got rid of the computers. Shockingly, people fucked with a formula that was working with the intention to make it better and there were unintended consequences. Who could have guessed.
My conclusion: unless the field could be practically widened to include 16 (or 32) teams - which it certainly cannot, there will always be a mythical component to the college football championship. The more people keep fucking with the playoffs, the more people are going to realize that we were better off with the BCS, and really, better off than that with the bowl system.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3817712&forum_id=2#34838114) |
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