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so, like, maybe "God" guides us 2 make the right decisions in transhumanist upgr

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Arousing Jew
  12/18/17
...
Arousing Jew
  12/18/17
...
Arousing Jew
  02/20/18
we have to use technology to restore the preternatural gifts...
cowardly sneaky criminal sanctuary
  02/20/18
That's wonderful.
Arousing Jew
  02/20/18
what preternatural gifts
jet-lagged plum dog poop market
  02/20/18
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06553a.htm It may be well...
cowardly sneaky criminal sanctuary
  02/20/18
read it as petermannatural
haunting school
  02/20/18
i don't understand this we descended from horny violent a...
jet-lagged plum dog poop market
  02/20/18
in the straightforward literalist version of Genesis, Adam a...
cowardly sneaky criminal sanctuary
  02/20/18
going to disagree slightly here i don't think there was a...
haunting school
  02/20/18
how do you reconcile this with the idea that humans are fund...
cowardly sneaky criminal sanctuary
  02/20/18
What is your textual basis for the body/soul claim?
haunting school
  02/20/18
my basis is Catholic tradition as a whole rather than a pure...
cowardly sneaky criminal sanctuary
  02/20/18
Can you cite anything brother?
haunting school
  02/20/18
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s2...
cowardly sneaky criminal sanctuary
  02/20/18
Ty so your response to my interpretation is that man was not...
haunting school
  02/20/18
i mean even separate from that, how could Satan have rejecte...
cowardly sneaky criminal sanctuary
  02/20/18
so ur saying that even unembodied souls can sin. now im ...
haunting school
  02/20/18
how else are you supposed to make sense of the idea of falle...
cowardly sneaky criminal sanctuary
  02/20/18
“the greatest truth of the story of Adam and Eve isn’t that ...
haunting school
  02/20/18
well, yes, it's true that everyone sins (even though they sh...
cowardly sneaky criminal sanctuary
  02/20/18
Yes that is the fundamental question for high iq christmos
haunting school
  02/20/18
I think he's saying Satan could sin before the fall. Otherw...
Arousing Jew
  02/20/18
i like this you don't need a material body to sin via pri...
jet-lagged plum dog poop market
  02/20/18
Interesting! But do the preternatural gifts effectively moo...
Arousing Jew
  02/20/18
they still don't mean you'll necessarily go to heaven (altho...
cowardly sneaky criminal sanctuary
  02/20/18
Interesting. I think in order for me to try to share your ...
Arousing Jew
  02/20/18
Don't you have a bar exam to study for?
Arousing Jew
  02/20/18
https://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/dictionary/i...
cowardly sneaky criminal sanctuary
  02/20/18
It's literally the opposite "transhumanism" is th...
ocher quadroon
  02/20/18
Well, this "Hubris" argument is a position that tr...
Arousing Jew
  02/20/18
...
Tan tantric sandwich theatre
  03/07/18
...
Arousing Jew
  03/07/18
The trend of transhumanism is gaining popularity across the ...
costumed charismatic church building candlestick maker
  03/07/18


Poast new message in this thread



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2017 12:02 PM
Author: Arousing Jew



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3832954&forum_id=2#34948647)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2017 1:30 PM
Author: Arousing Jew



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3832954&forum_id=2#34949307)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 20th, 2018 2:07 PM
Author: Arousing Jew



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3832954&forum_id=2#35445584)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 20th, 2018 2:10 PM
Author: cowardly sneaky criminal sanctuary

we have to use technology to restore the preternatural gifts God bestowed upon Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, and which were lost as a result of Original Sin

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3832954&forum_id=2#35445616)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 20th, 2018 3:49 PM
Author: Arousing Jew

That's wonderful.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3832954&forum_id=2#35446429)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 20th, 2018 3:51 PM
Author: jet-lagged plum dog poop market

what preternatural gifts

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3832954&forum_id=2#35446447)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 20th, 2018 3:52 PM
Author: cowardly sneaky criminal sanctuary

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06553a.htm

It may be well here to say a few words on the preternatural (relatively supernatural) gifts bestowed on our first parents, which are sometimes confused with the supernatural gifts properly so called. In the beginning God exempted man from the inherent weakness of his nature, i.e. the infirmities of the flesh and the consequent infirmities of the spirit. He made man immortal, impassible, free from concupiscence and ignorance, sinless, and lord of the earth. These privileges are beyond man's nature, but not beyond that of some higher creature (e.g. the angels); hence they are preternatural (praeter naturam). The Fathers look upon them as a glorification of nature, applying the words of Psalm 8:5-9. In point of fact these gifts were not conferred apart from the supernatural gifts; a preternatural state is, however, conceivable, and the separability of the two sets of gifts is clear from our now possessing the supernatural without the preternatural gifts. "Although distinct and separable, unite into one harmonious and organic whole. The Fathers look upon this union in the original state of man as an anticipation of his state of final beatitude in the vision of God, so that grace bears to integrity the same relation which the future glory of the soul bears to the future glory of the body. Integrity and grace, when combined, elevate man to the most perfect likeness with God attainable in this life; they dispose and prepare him for the still more complete likeness of eternal life".

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3832954&forum_id=2#35446453)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 20th, 2018 3:53 PM
Author: haunting school

read it as petermannatural

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3832954&forum_id=2#35446464)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 20th, 2018 3:55 PM
Author: jet-lagged plum dog poop market

i don't understand this

we descended from horny violent apes - how were we born "free from concupiscence"

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3832954&forum_id=2#35446477)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 20th, 2018 3:58 PM
Author: cowardly sneaky criminal sanctuary

in the straightforward literalist version of Genesis, Adam and Eve were not subject to bodily temptation before Original Sin

in whatever the contemporary science-friendly version is supposed to be, i guess the first primates (maybe a group of them and not just one man/woman pair) who God decided were evolved enough to fully bear His image in the form of a rational nature were originally granted a freedom from bodily temptation (among other things) which they squandered by choosing sin over righteousness

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3832954&forum_id=2#35446498)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 20th, 2018 4:04 PM
Author: haunting school

going to disagree slightly here

i don't think there was a special period in our animal evolution where we were free from bodily temptation

i think the symbolic interpretation would point to pre-embodied consciousness as the point of freedom from concupiscence

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3832954&forum_id=2#35446540)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 20th, 2018 4:09 PM
Author: cowardly sneaky criminal sanctuary

how do you reconcile this with the idea that humans are fundamentally a body/soul composite by nature, rather than souls who have been unfortunately ensnared in the material world?

i mean i realize our current scientific theories of human evolution don't include any sort of brief period of immortality/freedom from bodily desires among early humans, but i am also reluctant to write these off as purely metaphorical features of Genesis

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3832954&forum_id=2#35446569)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 20th, 2018 4:19 PM
Author: haunting school

What is your textual basis for the body/soul claim?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3832954&forum_id=2#35446623)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 20th, 2018 4:20 PM
Author: cowardly sneaky criminal sanctuary

my basis is Catholic tradition as a whole rather than a purely scriptural one

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3832954&forum_id=2#35446633)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 20th, 2018 4:23 PM
Author: haunting school

Can you cite anything brother?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3832954&forum_id=2#35446645)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 20th, 2018 4:25 PM
Author: cowardly sneaky criminal sanctuary

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s2c1p6.htm

II. "BODY AND SOUL BUT TRULY ONE"

362 The human person, created in the image of God, is a being at once corporeal and spiritual. The biblical account expresses this reality in symbolic language when it affirms that "then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being."229 Man, whole and entire, is therefore willed by God.

363 In Sacred Scripture the term "soul" often refers to human life or the entire human person.230 But "soul" also refers to the innermost aspect of man, that which is of greatest value in him,231 that by which he is most especially in God's image: "soul" signifies the spiritual principle in man.

364 The human body shares in the dignity of "the image of God": it is a human body precisely because it is animated by a spiritual soul, and it is the whole human person that is intended to become, in the body of Christ, a temple of the Spirit:232

Man, though made of body and soul, is a unity. Through his very bodily condition he sums up in himself the elements of the material world. Through him they are thus brought to their highest perfection and can raise their voice in praise freely given to the Creator. For this reason man may not despise his bodily life. Rather he is obliged to regard his body as good and to hold it in honor since God has created it and will raise it up on the last day. 233

365 The unity of soul and body is so profound that one has to consider the soul to be the "form" of the body:234 i.e., it is because of its spiritual soul that the body made of matter becomes a living, human body; spirit and matter, in man, are not two natures united, but rather their union forms a single nature.

366 The Church teaches that every spiritual soul is created immediately by God - it is not "produced" by the parents - and also that it is immortal: it does not perish when it separates from the body at death, and it will be reunited with the body at the final Resurrection.235

367 Sometimes the soul is distinguished from the spirit: St. Paul for instance prays that God may sanctify his people "wholly", with "spirit and soul and body" kept sound and blameless at the Lord's coming.236 The Church teaches that this distinction does not introduce a duality into the soul.237 "Spirit" signifies that from creation man is ordered to a supernatural end and that his soul can gratuitously be raised beyond all it deserves to communion with God.238

368 The spiritual tradition of the Church also emphasizes the heart, in the biblical sense of the depths of one's being, where the person decides for or against God.239

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3832954&forum_id=2#35446654)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 20th, 2018 4:30 PM
Author: haunting school

Ty so your response to my interpretation is that man was not free from sin before he became embodied because man was not man before embodiment. Very interesting ty

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3832954&forum_id=2#35446683)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 20th, 2018 4:34 PM
Author: cowardly sneaky criminal sanctuary

i mean even separate from that, how could Satan have rejected God unless there was a possibility of sinning even without having a material nature? finite beings are necessarily imperfect and always retain the possibility of rejecting God.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3832954&forum_id=2#35446707)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 20th, 2018 4:38 PM
Author: haunting school

so ur saying that even unembodied souls can sin.

now im puzzled by this problem borther

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3832954&forum_id=2#35446745)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 20th, 2018 4:38 PM
Author: cowardly sneaky criminal sanctuary

how else are you supposed to make sense of the idea of fallen angels?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3832954&forum_id=2#35446751)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 20th, 2018 4:45 PM
Author: haunting school

“the greatest truth of the story of Adam and Eve isn’t that it happened, but that it happens. We all make choices to live outside of how God created us to live.”

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3832954&forum_id=2#35446785)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 20th, 2018 4:51 PM
Author: cowardly sneaky criminal sanctuary

well, yes, it's true that everyone sins (even though they shouldn't) and this is an important truth about the world and human nature which people need to accept. nevertheless i'm not sure that you can dismiss even the bare outline of the story of Original Sin in Genesis without raising some serious questions about whether you think Catholicism is actually true for real or whether you just want to LARP as some sort of early 21st century cyberpunk version of Dostoevsky's Grand Inquisitor.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3832954&forum_id=2#35446839)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 20th, 2018 4:56 PM
Author: haunting school

Yes that is the fundamental question for high iq christmos

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3832954&forum_id=2#35446871)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 20th, 2018 4:39 PM
Author: Arousing Jew

I think he's saying Satan could sin before the fall. Otherwise how could he have rebelled. This is all Milton stuff--and Sin I think sprang from pride and Death from Sin. As I recall.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3832954&forum_id=2#35446761)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 20th, 2018 5:28 PM
Author: jet-lagged plum dog poop market

i like this

you don't need a material body to sin via pride

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3832954&forum_id=2#35447078)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 20th, 2018 3:57 PM
Author: Arousing Jew

Interesting! But do the preternatural gifts effectively moot the supernatural gifts Jesus gave back to us?

I mean, if eternal life can be granted by virtue of technology, where does that leave us with respect to gaining admission to heaven? If we aren't going to die, then Jesus dying in part so we can get into heaven doesn't really mean much. Or am I blindly crashing into error here? If so, how so?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3832954&forum_id=2#35446490)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 20th, 2018 4:13 PM
Author: cowardly sneaky criminal sanctuary

they still don't mean you'll necessarily go to heaven (although they certainly make it easier, but in the end Adam and Eve still sinned), nor do they mean you'll find a way to escape the heat death of the universe (or the inevitability of dying in some form eventually, maybe accidentally, if all science can guarantee is freedom from old age or disease rather than true immortality). there's also the possibility that the end of the world may come before the end of the universe as predicted by our current science.

i'm honestly not quite sure of all the specifics of how one might (even partially) reconcile Catholicism and transhumanism. the Catholic Church is pretty clearly on the bioconservative side of things, and for the most part i agree with the reasoning for this. nevertheless i think it's important to keep in mind that God did not intend for death to enter into the world-- it was only as a consequence of Original Sin that this occurred. if we wind up eliminating death by gradually eliminating every possible medical problem that might lead to death (as opposed to transferring your mind to a computer or extracting blood from young people to transfer into old people or anything else which raises the hackles of religious conservatives), it's hard to say why it would be evil to do.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3832954&forum_id=2#35446594)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 20th, 2018 4:27 PM
Author: Arousing Jew

Interesting.

I think in order for me to try to share your viewpoint, I have to accept some things, not chief among them that global doom may be coming sooner than we think.

I think in general, I can get behind the idea that a creator would want us to enjoy and savor his creation as much and as deeply as possible, and as a consequence of that, technology that enhances our perceptions and abilities to enjoy and admire the universe is entirely beneficent.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3832954&forum_id=2#35446661)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 20th, 2018 3:52 PM
Author: Arousing Jew

Don't you have a bar exam to study for?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3832954&forum_id=2#35446457)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 20th, 2018 3:52 PM
Author: cowardly sneaky criminal sanctuary

https://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/dictionary/index.cfm?id=35763

Favors granted by God above and beyond the powers or capacities of the nature that receives them but not beyond those of all created nature. Such gifts perfect nature but do not carry it beyond the limits of created nature. They include three great privileges to which human beings have no title--infused knowledge, absence of concupiscence, and bodily immortality. Adam and Eve possessed these gifts before the Fall.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3832954&forum_id=2#35446458)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 20th, 2018 4:14 PM
Author: ocher quadroon

It's literally the opposite

"transhumanism" is the work of Satan, convincing men that they can become like God. It's the forbidden fruit/Tower of Babel all over again.

look at what technology has done to our culture just in the last couple decades (the Industrial Revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race).

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3832954&forum_id=2#35446601)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 20th, 2018 4:22 PM
Author: Arousing Jew

Well, this "Hubris" argument is a position that transhumanism will undoubtedly have to respond to at some point.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3832954&forum_id=2#35446638)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 7th, 2018 10:22 AM
Author: Tan tantric sandwich theatre



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3832954&forum_id=2#35552849)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 7th, 2018 10:20 AM
Author: Arousing Jew



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3832954&forum_id=2#35552838)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 7th, 2018 10:23 AM
Author: costumed charismatic church building candlestick maker

The trend of transhumanism is gaining popularity across the world, first and foremost in the West where it originated. Its symbol is a circle with the letter “H” for “human” and the plus sign: H +. The supporters of this trend enthusiastically accept all modern technology and take the idea of progress to its logical conclusion. In their opinion, the enhancement of technology is leading humanity to a state in which more perfect beings can be artificially created out of the human species. This is to be achieved by refining all parts of the human body by means of replacing them with artificial attachments that are indistinguishable from body parts and internal organs. This includes the technological simulation of consciousness or the registration of consciousness in different “receivers”, the cartography or mapping of the brain. The latest discoveries in the genome structure allow organisms to be corrected and their quality to be enhanced on a fundamental level.

H+ is a new level of humanity which will be free from disease, imperfections, and will ultimately achieve physical immortality. The body will be able to be changed or corrected and, at some point, even printed by 3-D printers. Virtual networks will become humans’ new habitat and will gradually come to completely replace our normal reality. Compared to H+, the utopias or dystopias of The Lawnmower Man or The Matrix will become something archaic and overcome.

Transhumanism is not simply a pastime for eccentrics, designers, or technological progress’ fanatics. It is the result of the last few centuries over the course of which humanity has come to seriously believe in the myth of progress and evolution. H+ is the final, logical conclusion of the modern era, Modernity. The main idea of Modernity was liberating man from any and all constraints. First they started with religion, tradition, and caste society, and then they fell the State and nation in favor of civil society. Then they abolished the normative view of gender and the normal family, legalizing the most diverse forms of gender mutations and perversions. And all of this took place against the backdrop of the technological development of new forms of production, computers, and advances in programing and the synthesis of new materials. Ideology and technology gradually merged into something one and indivisible. Technological progress has become an ideological factor, and ideology has, in turn, become nothing other than technology. Hence the replacement of classical political forms with spin doctors.

Now we have come to the final phase of humanity’s liberation from its limitations. In the West, there is already no longer any religion, political hierarchies, normal families, or State in the fullest sense of the word. All borders have been completely crossed, i.e., transgressed. Now all that remains is one final step: overcoming the boundaries of the human species itself. This is H+ - the last word of liberalism. Transhumanism is no bizarre side product of technological development - it is the logical end of the modern age. According to Modernity, we were supposed to reach the age of cyborgs, hybrids, mutants, and chimeras, and now we have arrived.

Of course, the vast majority of humanity today are not ready to become cyborgs or mutants. But no one asked the majority of mankind. All history is made by elites. The masses are never ready for anything. But this means absolutely nothing. They are not ready - they are being prepared, and no one even notices. Transhumanism is inevitable if we accept the main trend of the modern era, faith in progress, development, and the betterment of humanity. This religion, or rather pseudo-religion of progress was introduced to Europe and the world by the Enlightenment. This heresy gradually replaced or pushed into the periphery all traditional forms of religion, first and foremost Christianity. It is impossible to stop halfway on this path of progress. Saying “a,” we have to say “b,” “c,” “d”, and all the other letters of the alphabet. H+ is the last letter. Henceforth only computer language begins.

The only ones who are on the opposite side of post-humanism are consistent and fundamental traditionalists. They reject not only the final mutation, but all of Modernity, the very idea of progress and development, the scientific image of the world, and democracy and liberalism. Instead, traditionalists affirmed and affirm God, Church, Empire, caste, power, and folk customs. Not progress. The modern world is not progress, but the result of decline. It is the kingdom of the Antichrist. Fighting against H+ to reject the final transformation dictated by the very logic of the liberal ideology of Modernity while still accepting other aspects of Modernity is meaningless. Transhumanism is the inevitable tomorrow if we agree with what our today is. If we want to change our fate, we must go back in time and understand where we committed the fatal mistake.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3832954&forum_id=2#35552862)