How much will crypto tax evaders have to pay in penalties?
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Date: December 20th, 2017 4:55 PM Author: Dun titillating stead
iforget the exact rates, but it aint good, esp if you are selling millions in crypto
there are also late payment fees + penalty fees (those are separate)
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3835704&forum_id=2#34968945) |
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Date: December 20th, 2017 5:06 PM Author: Dun titillating stead
100% clear position
I am going to do my best efforts to estimate, since I haven't been keeping track of coin to coin conversions.
I think as long as you don't blatantly lie (aka don't report at all or say some rdiciulous number), they wont audit you or charge you penalties for failing to report. IRS can still charge late penalties though if they end up auditing. I doubt they will go for super minor players, but IRS is pulling reports from Coinbase for 20k+ holders who are in business from a couple years ago.
Lawman8 recommended some kind of software to help calculate taxes - I think it's called Libra?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3835704&forum_id=2#34969013) |
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Date: December 20th, 2017 5:48 PM Author: puce violent mother
If it is expensive and difficult to track, imagine you are the IRS?
I keep a spreadsheet and track my trades with values of those coins as of the date of each trade to the best of my ability.
If you track the trades in good faith and report the gain(loss) to the best of your ability, I don't think the IRS will take issue with it and if they do I think the penalties would be limited to late payment plus interest on the underpayment but would not include punitive penalties.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3835704&forum_id=2#34969335) |
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Date: December 20th, 2017 5:07 PM Author: Dun titillating stead
I think there was some kind of "business" caveat to that, but yes.
20K isn't even that much for many of us.
I'd report, because even websites like Bittrex have been asking for ID confirmation
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3835704&forum_id=2#34969019) |
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Date: December 20th, 2017 5:09 PM Author: Dun titillating stead
Yes, that counts
That's a realization event when you convert currencies
I haven't been keeping track though, so it's going to be a HUGE pain in the ass
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3835704&forum_id=2#34969036)
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Date: December 20th, 2017 5:12 PM Author: citrine parlor
Look at the site I linked above. It gives you instructions on how to import your trading history from basically every exchange and then calculates it all for you.
Two problems I now have:
1. It doesn't really work for Liqui.io, and you have to do something with an API, and I don't know what that is or how to use it.
2. The program appears to be ludicrously expensive.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3835704&forum_id=2#34969053) |
Date: December 20th, 2017 5:04 PM Author: citrine parlor
You could be criminally prosecuted for tax evasion if you just don't report anything.
They're probably going to bring a couple high profile prosecutions to set an example.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3835704&forum_id=2#34969001) |
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Date: December 20th, 2017 5:13 PM Author: citrine parlor
Libra for individuals.
https://cointracking.info
Is the best site I've found, but looks super expensive.
https://bitcoin.tax
Is ok but doesn't have as much functionality as the cointracking one.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3835704&forum_id=2#34969066) |
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Date: December 20th, 2017 5:28 PM Author: Dun titillating stead
https://liqui.io/api
You can generate "API keys" if you click on profile.
I haven't done it yet though so not exactly sure...
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3835704&forum_id=2#34969169) |
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Date: December 20th, 2017 5:33 PM Author: citrine parlor
Ok, thanks.
It sucks because the cheaper website doesn't have this functionality. Only takes .csvs.
So the report it will generate will be incomplete without the Liqui info.
Right now, I'm planning on importing as much stuff as I can, and then just guessing an extra $10k or so from Liqui.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3835704&forum_id=2#34969209) |
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Date: December 20th, 2017 5:40 PM Author: Dun titillating stead
I'm prob going to try to do a really shitty excel by using the Coinbase report and then looking on Bittrex, Liqui, transactions, etc.
The hard part is actually figuring out the USD amounts when I converted. But I also had some losses too, that should offset gains.
Just give a rough estimate within 5K or so, ljl.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3835704&forum_id=2#34969272) |
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Date: December 20th, 2017 5:43 PM Author: citrine parlor
Liqui absolutely fucks us because they don't keep a transaction history.
Only your last 30 transactions. Look for yourself.
That's why we have to use the API, but only the insanely expensive program lets you import it.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3835704&forum_id=2#34969291) |
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Date: December 20th, 2017 5:44 PM Author: Dun titillating stead
Cot damn. I rarely use Liqui though - mainly Bittrex, which had me submit my license/ID, etc.
I don't recall submitting information for Liqui.
I'd probably just do a rough estimate, and not worry about it considering I don't think Liqui has our personal information.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3835704&forum_id=2#34969299) |
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Date: December 20th, 2017 5:14 PM Author: Dun titillating stead
If you keep any coins on CB though, or in large amounts, you might be fucked even if all you do is move them to another wallet
Coinbase now generates tax reports for users as a courtesy, but they treat moving coins as a sale/realization event. If you run the excel, it grossly exaggerates your actual sale amounts since anything counts as a realization event in the excel. (So if you hold your coins there for long term, the supposed gains will be huge.)
If the IRS were to ask Coinbase to pull these reports, then ask taxpayers for evidence to prove they didn't sell....fma that is going to be a pain in the butt.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3835704&forum_id=2#34969074) |
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Date: December 20th, 2017 5:19 PM Author: Dun titillating stead
CR
What you should be doing is buy on CB and then immediately move offline...so CB doesn't have that record
Unfortunately I haven't been doing that so CB reports that I have supposedly sold five figures worth when all I did was move them to different wallets
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3835704&forum_id=2#34969122) |
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Date: December 20th, 2017 5:38 PM Author: Dun titillating stead
They rarely send people to jail unless you are high profile
They will just assess penalties
I wouldn't worry about prison, ljl
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3835704&forum_id=2#34969249) |
Date: December 20th, 2017 6:13 PM Author: Cyan Bateful Hissy Fit
Coin to coin transactions? There are likely Several million crypto nuts in the United States who have made hundreds of not thousands of coin to coin trades.
There is still no crystal clear guidance on this from the IRS
And the IRS was understaffed already last year: https://www.denverpost.com/2017/03/05/income-tax-audits-plummet-irs-loses-agents/
Need more clarity from fed gov
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3835704&forum_id=2#34969577) |
Date: December 20th, 2017 6:14 PM Author: Sexy Lodge Nibblets
Has anyone looked at whether the final tax bill includes the First in First Out provisions that would apply to crypto? My understanding is that under a FIFO standard, for tax purposes you would have to treat a crypto-to-crypto transaction as a sale of the oldest asset.
So, say you bought an ETH in March for $20, and then you bought an ETH today for $800. Then tonight you use an ETH to trade for some alt FAGcoin. If FIFO applied, your ETH "sale" HAS to be your oldest ETH for a capital gain of $780. Also, since it's under a year, you have to pay the income tax rate of 40% or whatever. Even though you haven't realized a penny in actual fiat.
This would create a disastrous death spiral of taxes for some people.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3835704&forum_id=2#34969579) |
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