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PSA: S4E4 of Black Mirror (Hang the DJ) is the GOAT episode > San Junipero
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Date: December 30th, 2017 3:28 AM Author: Mahogany new version locale just breathtaking, incredible ending, never saw it coming (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35040820) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 11:12 AM Author: Geriatric Shitlib love the look on her face as she goes to her true love that was 180 she's almost running to him (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35048842) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 11:26 AM Author: Geriatric Shitlib thats how my wife looks at me very morning. lol no. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35048934) |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 4:37 PM Author: Topaz big crotch half-breed (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35126557) |
Date: December 30th, 2017 5:11 AM Author: Ivory razzmatazz stock car That was easily my least favorite episode after the blue cartoon one (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35041000) |
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Date: December 30th, 2017 2:50 PM Author: Mahogany new version locale wtf man how could you not like it? if that is the future of dating apps, I'm in |
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Date: December 30th, 2017 2:51 PM Author: Mentally impaired charcoal liquid oxygen jewess (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35043451) |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 4:05 PM Author: frisky kitty so far I've only liked the first episode. seems formulaic now with recycled themes. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35126268) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 3:44 AM Author: anal jap (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35047893) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 10:07 AM Author: well-lubricated chapel goyim My favorite episode of s4 so far, was great except for giving away the ending about half way through
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Date: December 31st, 2017 10:57 AM Author: Avocado principal's office (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35048730) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 11:13 AM Author: Geriatric Shitlib had to give it away to prep audience otherwise it would have a creeper element that would take away from the powerful ending. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35048851) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 11:20 AM Author: Avocado principal's office This is right in that doing the twist without any foreshadowing would be weird. But the path they took is emblematic of the "beat you over the head with the premise" shtick that detracts from many of the episodes. Literally having a character verbalize the twist, unprompted, halfway in. Also "always four skips" basically gives it away.
Would've been CR to do a slow burn and let the absurdity of the setting do more of the work. No jobs, no travel, no family, dudes with tasers... |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 11:23 AM Author: Geriatric Shitlib hmm. Wouldnt we get it in a heartbeat though as soon as the question is asked? We've come to expect this sort of thing from black mirror.
Still, I was willing to go along with it without the twist, thinking that must just be life in post AI world. |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 11:28 AM Author: Avocado principal's office The idea is you let it remain ambiguous between various explanations for the setting (dating commune, social experiment, fucking gameshow, whatever) instead of EXPLICITLY TELLING THE AUDIENCE halfway through. Yes, it's obvious something weird is afoot. And yes, people will probably have simulation as one of their guesses for why that is, especially after San Junipero. Which is why they need to be MORE SUBTLE instead of doing this "four skips" shit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35048941) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 11:30 AM Author: Geriatric Shitlib oh i dont disagree. but i think there would be some negative consequences of keeping it ambiguous until the very end that would detract from the gorgeous final scene. I still think there would be a creeper element--an unfair sort of stalkery vibe from this chick that you would get which you dont get in the final choice. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35048965) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 11:23 AM Author: Avocado principal's office Example: "White Bear" is great until the very end, when they spell out the premise for you like you're a retarded monkey. I think a character literally just does a monologue. So lazy. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35048916) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 11:25 AM Author: Geriatric Shitlib i dont remember that one--which one is that? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35048924) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 11:26 AM Author: Geriatric Shitlib oh yeah, pretty forgettable episode over all (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35048929) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 11:27 AM Author: Greedy glittery native wtf white bear was awesome (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35048937) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 11:28 AM Author: Avocado principal's office (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35048946) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 11:47 AM Author: Geriatric Shitlib The monologue comes from defects in the premise and is forced by same. Its all of a one, which is why that episode is a forgettable one. You barbarians have no aesthetic taste at all. |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 11:49 AM Author: Avocado principal's office Lmfao holy shit.
Please expand on these thoughts, if you're not afraid of embarrassing yourself further. |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 11:50 AM Author: Geriatric Shitlib No I've just let slip that I have a profound understanding of narrative aesthetic. I've said too much for you monkeys and your he man cartoons. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35049215) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 11:51 AM Author: Avocado principal's office Ok dude. Lay it on my tiny testosterone addled brain. What were the defects in the premise? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35049220) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 11:57 AM Author: Geriatric Shitlib I can barely remember it at present and am not going to watch it again. But for starters there's almost an unsustainable pagan level cruelty associated w it that just isn't human nature. Also some of those spectators would intervene or deviate from game plan by simple acts of human kindness. It is not a realistic portrayal of human nature. Because of this, the monologue at the end was sort of fate accompli to close out the childish portrayal of human nature throughout. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35049249) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 12:02 PM Author: Avocado principal's office Google "Stanford prison experiment" and "milgram experiment" you fool.
It's entirely believable that a bunch of sadists who self-select for such an event and have committed to certain rules would behave that way.
Further, even if you don't believe that, fiction is stylizied reality that purposely exaggerates important ideas in interesting ways, not a facsimile of reality
I mean, this is going to blow your mind, but people in movies don't talk at all like people in real life! |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 12:04 PM Author: Geriatric Shitlib You need to look closer into milgrams study. Its not as limited as you might find. There's a general understanding of what it stands for but theres a deeper level of data that suggests exactly what I am saying. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35049291) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 12:08 PM Author: Avocado principal's office What the fuck are you talking about. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35049313) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 12:09 PM Author: Geriatric Shitlib Oh, ill see if I can find a link in a little while. But uts quite interesting. There was a radio newscast about our collective misunderstanding about milgrams experiment.... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35049325) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 12:16 PM Author: Geriatric Shitlib here. https://www.npr.org/2013/08/28/209559002/taking-a-closer-look-at-milgrams-shocking-obedience-study not the end all be all but what im saying is a defect in the premise was that people would be so mean as to allow such a horrible thing to happen day after day without intervention and simply as spectators. some percentage would--sure. But not all--not every day. and thats just an example of a defect i recognized in the plot line of that story. there are others but as i said im not going to watch it again. This may be post hoc based on my "gut" response to the episode, but what is "gut" response but IN PART the same reasoning but on an unconscious level. Point of fact, white bear was childish in some respects. Not bad, and not uncommon, but its not of the same quality as the better, cleaner episodes. |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 12:31 PM Author: Avocado principal's office Idk man. Like I said, yes IRL there would be frictions. You are seeing a stylized reality, a day where nothing goes wrong. Just like every other movie ever!! Given what we know about humanity's capacity for groupthink and evil, what you are seeing is "real enough," a near universe that forces you to think.
Put another way, your objection is that "well there would be some small problems with the premise if this happened in real life." But this tacitly lets the writers win, because you're acknowledging that such an evil, grotesque thing is only SLIGHTLY outside the realm of possibility. This is the point. "Haha this is stupid and entirely unrealistic, human nature is only evil enough to sustain 90% of that level of cruelty" is not really an objection to the writer's vision. If you have this thought, THE EPISODE WINS.
I mean, we never see the main character take a shit either. Does that bring you out of the experience, too?
See the essay I linked below for more. |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 12:32 PM Author: Geriatric Shitlib i dont think so. As a work of art, it fails. and it fails in part because it doesnt *know* human nature enough. Its a fun silly ride, but there are other episodes that more closely approximate what it means to be human. more lasting significance, more intelligent and nuanced. I rank those higher. |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 12:38 PM Author: Avocado principal's office Holy fuck dude, did you not read a word I wrote?
Bullet point version: the criterion for good art is not how closely it mimics reality, even the reality of human nature. This is not to say that presenting compelling characters is not important, but that TELLING THE STORY is always the primary goal.
Fictional characters CANNOT and SHOULD NOT be clones of real people, their mannerisms, their beliefs, their behaviors, etc.
And again to reiterate: objecting that this episode is only 90% realistic means the writers accomplished exactly what they set out to do. |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 12:42 PM Author: Geriatric Shitlib youve missed the point. your not going to beat me on this. it is unrealistic that spectators would do what they did here, without any intervention or pushback. To think otherwise is to misunderstand human nature. the misunderstanding of human nature is a component of the narrative, however--it wouldnt work if it was more true to life. accordingly, to me, it doesnt ring true and isnt as compelling as some of the others. Im better at this than you, but ive had a lot of training on the topic. I'd just leave it alone friend. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35049580) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 12:44 PM Author: Avocado principal's office I've made my point. People reading this can judge for themselves. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35049592) |
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Date: January 16th, 2018 11:07 AM Author: Odious crackhouse french chef You were correct in this subthread. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35167478) |
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Date: January 16th, 2018 11:18 AM Author: Geriatric Shitlib no your just a baby in your taste and sensibilities (which is okay but don't kid yourself otherwise). You've got a lot of work to do, a lot of growing up to do still. Sorry dude. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35167544) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 12:08 PM Author: Geriatric Shitlib People actually pushed back a lot in milgram, but you dont hear about that. In this dopey episode, there was never any pushback, day after day after day. And it had to be so, as a premise of the storyline. I don't think so...thats just a cartoon view of human nature. |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 12:14 PM Author: Avocado principal's office People who self-select as torturers then enjoy the gamified torturing? This is your objection? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35049365) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 12:31 PM Author: Geriatric Shitlib well as i keep saying, my objection is the spectators are not representative of human nature--its only one objection. there would be more if i watched it again. You seem to want to say "but yeah, they self-selected to be spectators as such." hmmm. maybe. but there were an awful lot of them. and just because you self-select, dont you change your mind while seeing the torment first hand or the terrified look of the woman as she passes--some small but significant portion would, no matter what. the fact that the spectators are "self selected" doesnt cure the problem. It's an easy go-to to imagine people in general as vicious in these sort of creepy steven kingy horror stories... which lends to the creepiness of the story but its part of the defect that often crops up in narratives like this. there are always people who push back. that sort of component is what makes things more interesting. as viewers WE are the people who push back here, which is fine, but to be more interesting and accurate, at least one or two spectators would offer a kindly word or some help. It's unreal in that sense, and professional writers would agree. while theres a lot of cruelty in the world, theres also some kindness. |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 12:33 PM Author: Avocado principal's office "At least one or two spectators would push back."
You're making exactly the "90% accurate" objection I just addressed above. |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 12:34 PM Author: Geriatric Shitlib well, none of them do in the storyline do they. and s i recall the events happen every day, unceasingly. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35049512) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 12:40 PM Author: Avocado principal's office I COULD say that there Good justifications for this. Maybe we catch the game on an especially good day, maybe we don't see the protests, whatever.
But I'm not going to do that. Because then I would, like you, be MISSING THE POINT. |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 12:42 PM Author: Geriatric Shitlib maybe baby, etc. any indication of this anywhere in the episode? would be more interesting if so. Now you are making stuff up to defend your position. which you cant because you just don't have as much wisdom and insight as me, at least at this point in your life.
ITS also apparent to me that you were unaware of the nuances to the milgram experiment util i pointed it out to you, which you pointedly ignored because you are just not going to concede that I know more than you. |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 12:04 PM Author: Ruddy Aphrodisiac Puppy Police Squad (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35049296) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 12:06 PM Author: Geriatric Shitlib Look, I'm the one who said it was a poor episode. That's all. I mean I watched it, I'm not out there singing it to the rooftops that its bad. I watched it. I just point out as one example that people aren't as bad overall to make this premise workable. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35049302) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 12:12 PM Author: Avocado principal's office I'm not saying you should like it, I'm saying your reason for not liking it is bad and likely a post-hoc justification of your gut reaction.
You clearly don't understand the evils ordinary people are willing to perform under the right circumstances (and in fact this episode explores that very idea!), and you don't understand what it means for a premise to be "workable."
The test of a premise is not whether it could actually happen 100% identically in real life with zero changes or frictions. |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 12:12 PM Author: Geriatric Shitlib why do i have the gut reaction that i do, friend? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35049354) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 12:16 PM Author: Avocado principal's office I don't know dude. People have different tastes in fiction and that's OK. Sometimes shit doesn't click. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35049377) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 12:16 PM Author: Geriatric Shitlib probe deeper. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35049381) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 12:21 PM Author: Avocado principal's office Idk man, I don't know your life and what texts and movies have shaped your tastes. Some people like that style of horror, some don't. I don't think there's any deeper reason.
But if upon reflection your objection is still this silly thing about realism and believability, this essay is a decent (through imperfect) start:
http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2012/10/30/film-crit-hulk-smash-hulk-vs.-plot-holes-and-movie-logic |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 12:33 PM Author: Geriatric Shitlib my objection is that it presents people collectively as cartoons. simple as that. im not wrong. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35049510) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 12:43 PM Author: Avocado principal's office But above you admitted that it in fact wasn't completely cartoonish, that one or two dissenters would be much more realistic and satisfy you.
Please meditate on what that means, and in particular ask yourself why the writers knew this and intentionally exaggerated anyway. |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 12:44 PM Author: Geriatric Shitlib they wrote it the way they did because it was a hacky component that was necessary for the story to work. the story itself and its conception was mediocre. no real take aways. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35049593) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 10:08 AM Author: Olive Swashbuckling Candlestick Maker Library S4 is really mediocre. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35048512) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 10:57 AM Author: Avocado principal's office (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35048731) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 11:13 AM Author: Geriatric Shitlib are you kidding? it was 180 as fuck. you people are spoiled as fuck or something. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35048857) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 11:16 AM Author: Mentally impaired charcoal liquid oxygen jewess (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35048874) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 11:34 AM Author: Geriatric Shitlib yeah but you didnt like the latest star wars either. which, oddly, will firmly place you in the dorky camp one year hence. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35048994) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 11:36 AM Author: Mentally impaired charcoal liquid oxygen jewess (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35049006) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 11:41 AM Author: Geriatric Shitlib Well yr totally wrong because I'm fucking ripped as shit. Not fat. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35049141) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 11:42 AM Author: Mentally impaired charcoal liquid oxygen jewess (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35049157) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 11:39 AM Author: Avocado principal's office Haha holy shit (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35049077) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 11:17 AM Author: Greedy glittery native fuck guess im just not going to waste my time watching it now (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35048877) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 11:18 AM Author: Lime pocket flask Is this a Rudolph alt? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35048886) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 11:27 AM Author: Ruddy Aphrodisiac Puppy Police Squad (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35048940) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 11:28 AM Author: Ruddy Aphrodisiac Puppy Police Squad Don't get the hype around the episode. It was just kind of meh with a feel good ending. Kind of hard for average people to relate (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35048943) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 11:30 AM Author: Avocado principal's office The hype is a bunch of women who don't like horror speed-reviewing the season for buzzfeed-tier outlets.
One of them ranked Arkangel as the best episode LMAO |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 11:32 AM Author: Geriatric Shitlib arkangel was sort of crappy. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35048985) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 11:46 AM Author: well-lubricated chapel goyim Maybe the worst episode of the series (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35049171) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 11:49 AM Author: Geriatric Shitlib Yeah it was poor. Rife w plot problems for one thing. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35049202) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 11:48 AM Author: Ruddy Aphrodisiac Puppy Police Squad Yeah I didn't care for that either. New season is disappointing so far, two more episodes to watch. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35049196) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 11:48 AM Author: Ruddy Aphrodisiac Puppy Police Squad It probably forcememe'ed that app dating is bad, something they know but refuse to consciously acknowledge, and they were like, "whoah, what a message!" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35049188) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 11:32 AM Author: Geriatric Shitlib "Kind of hard for average people to relate," says the aspie who doesnt know average people. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35048979) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 11:28 AM Author: Geriatric Shitlib the dog one is 180 as fuck. loved that one too. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35048951) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 11:35 AM Author: Mentally impaired charcoal liquid oxygen jewess (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35048998) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 11:36 AM Author: Geriatric Shitlib nah it was 180. imagine having that fucker coming up on you. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35049011) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 11:38 AM Author: Avocado principal's office They tried something different (chase sequence), and I respect that even though it didn't work.
I'm much unhappier about Arkangel and Crocodile, which are stereotypical in bad ways. |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 11:39 AM Author: Mentally impaired charcoal liquid oxygen jewess (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35049092) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 11:44 AM Author: Geriatric Shitlib I thought it worked 180 as fuck particularly because it has no immediately apparent plot holes unlike some of the others you faggots rank so highly. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35049165) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 11:46 AM Author: Avocado principal's office "plot holes"
I don't think you know what that means. I also don't think the things you think are "holes" are particularly important. |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 11:52 AM Author: Geriatric Shitlib Maybe the questions I ask are not common questions but I ask them and they are unanswered so... Commonly asked or not, if bros like me ask them the story isn't going to be completely aesthetically high level. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35049224) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 11:56 AM Author: Avocado principal's office You realize that it's a sci-fi short, not a dungeons and dragons reference manual, right?
More generally, you realize that it's not the job of a story to answer in complete detail every possible question that could be asked about its setting, and in fact that often ambiguity is more compelling than making everything precise, right? |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 11:59 AM Author: Geriatric Shitlib Sure! And I over think scripts sometimes. But at the same time, I dont like dopey shit. The dog one didn't really have much in the way of dopey shit. Seemed actually pretty close to concepts I am.sure the military has already come up w. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35049268) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 12:03 PM Author: Avocado principal's office Ok, but "dopey shit" is an entirely different criticism from "plot holes." (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35049287) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 12:35 PM Author: Geriatric Shitlib not really. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35049517) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 12:46 PM Author: Avocado principal's office read the essay I linked above, tyia (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35049611) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 12:56 PM Author: Geriatric Shitlib i dont disagree with the point.
but when the error is in how people actually would respond to something, thats a hard suspension of belief to maintain. it often breaks the willingness to suspend.
I like to watch little kids listen to stories. what do they lean in on, listen to very closely? dialogue. How people --people other than the protagonist--respond to stuff. They love testing this out against what they know about people thus far in their little lives.
If you as story teller fuck up this component--as many story tellers do, because they are aspie or worse, their story isnt all that good to begin with and needs to bend our expectation of what other characters should or would do iIRL--if you fuck this up, people will notice it, and it will be a little moment of not sitting right with them. its as simple as that. you probably cant see it yet because your still a baby and dont know enough about human nature yet. |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 1:04 PM Author: Avocado principal's office You're a literalist idiot. The point is that the behaviors of the spectators/mob are purposely stylized exactly to make you think about how far they are from reality. (This realization comes after the twist. I assume we're making post-twist judgments. Pre-twist it's just a horror flick and works the same way classic slashers, etc. do).
The answer you gave upthread was that you don't think they're actually that far away! Just a little. Which means whoever wrote this did their job effectively re: making you plumb the depths of humanity's cruelty and recognize its capacity for EVIL. |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 1:06 PM Author: Geriatric Shitlib nope. keep changing your tune. but its just a problem w the story and the story telling. |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 1:08 PM Author: Avocado principal's office Ok, final post for real.
You object that IRL, some people wouldn't be comfortable torturing the lead character. Whatever.
The important part is that you recognize that SOME PEOPLE WOULD.
(And then the real question: how many? You seem to think quite a lot!) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 1:12 PM Author: Geriatric Shitlib doesnt have anything to do with the effectiveness or quality of the story, friend. And your goalpoasts have been all over the place today. did you get some grief in an undergrad creative writing workshop or something? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35049724) |
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Date: January 16th, 2018 11:15 AM Author: Odious crackhouse french chef This schtick is not very funny. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35167531) |
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Date: January 16th, 2018 11:19 AM Author: Geriatric Shitlib Are you a butthurt little "creative writing classes" baby? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35167548) |
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Date: January 16th, 2018 11:55 AM Author: Odious crackhouse french chef Ljl (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35167772) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 11:46 AM Author: hairraiser stead nibblets Junipero was gay (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35049172) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 11:47 AM Author: Avocado principal's office Literally! It's consensus GOAT episode. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35049179) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 11:47 AM Author: hairraiser stead nibblets Lib bait (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35049184) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 11:51 AM Author: Avocado principal's office Not at all. It's a love story that happens to be about lesbians, not "hidden figures" style forcememeing. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35049216) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 12:39 PM Author: Geriatric Shitlib it was a good episode. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35049556) |
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Date: January 1st, 2018 1:20 AM Author: Unhinged point lol @ ppl itt seriously engaging w/ spaceporn (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35053999) |
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Date: January 1st, 2018 4:37 PM Author: Avocado principal's office I got trolled hard here. Not my finest moment. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35057008) |
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Date: January 1st, 2018 4:38 PM Author: orchid nighttime plaza place of business (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35057019) |
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Date: January 1st, 2018 4:43 PM Author: rusted bawdyhouse hunting ground What was so great about San Junipero? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35057055) |
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Date: January 1st, 2018 4:55 PM Author: metal step-uncle's house faggot firefighter Lesbianism, the 80s (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35057146) |
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Date: January 2nd, 2018 2:26 AM Author: Aromatic Gaming Laptop Dopamine mousy 6 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35061315) |
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Date: March 17th, 2018 6:07 PM Author: magical brunch What can be better than going back to your youth when you're a dying old? It was so 180. Would watch again. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35627495) |
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Date: January 2nd, 2018 2:22 AM Author: brass laughsome lay The lipsmacking thing in DJ was a rip-off of a curb your enthusiasm episode where Larry acts as social assasin at behest of sammie (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35061312) |
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Date: January 2nd, 2018 2:27 AM Author: carmine faggotry dilemma i just watched a couple episodes for the first time a couple days ago
its a fun series but definitely just the modern version of twilight zone |
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Date: January 2nd, 2018 2:31 AM Author: Mahogany new version locale just discovered that the penultimate song (so not the one during the bar/credits, but while they're running away/scaling the wall) is a custom soundtrack piece done by none other than Sigur Ros. pretty cool: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v62pLR_ot7Q (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35061327) |
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Date: January 12th, 2018 11:08 AM Author: Curious black woman newt cool (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35139499) |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 3:20 PM Author: onyx degenerate Watched this last night and it kinda felt incoherent. Setting the "simulation" stuff aside, most of the episode's content was about the dehumanizing nature of algorithm-based app dating. Yet the episode's happy ending is premised on how those apps will actually allow you to find true love with 99.8% certainty. That seems to totally clash with Black Mirror's general ethos as well as the public's actual experience with the online meat market. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35125926) |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 3:57 PM Author: Drab wonderful pit sandwich It's a bit of a send up on the clash between those who favor traditional dating mores (rigid adherence to a process; stick with the person you first like and build a relationship) and those who believe modern dating (using apps and trying out lots of partners before settling) is better. During the episode, the viewer is often left guessing at which of the two the writers will ultimately criticize, but the software in the episode borrows ideas from both to create the perfect system.
Best episode of the season, though an average to above average episode otherwise. The season was terrible. |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 4:04 PM Author: red cruise ship legend I am kinda dumb. I "got" the concept but once I started to think about it too much, it didn't make much sense to me. E.g., the 99.8% match. What is it really based on? OK, based on the simulation but can't the simulation just simulate a good story that makes the individuals feel good about the relationship? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35126263) |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 4:08 PM Author: Drab wonderful pit sandwich The people using the app software in the real world do not know the story going on in the simulation. The "story" occurred in a split second in real time. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35126284) |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 4:13 PM Author: red cruise ship legend See. I am dumb. So there is a group of individuals using this app and it runs innumerable sims between each pairing of individuals and comes out with the results that these particular two people just accept as valid? Not really adequately explaining my problem here. Nevermind, I don't know that I want to put the time in to really understanding this. |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 4:19 PM Author: Drab wonderful pit sandwich "So there is a group of individuals using this app and it runs innumerable sims between each pairing of individuals and comes out with the results that these particular two people just accept as valid?"
Yep, that's it. The episode implies that their "consciousness" has been uploaded to the Sim (a plot vehicle the show has used for a while now) and the Sim borrows ideas from traditional and modern dating mores to create the perfect the system for finding compatibility. Judging by the way they look at each other in reality and the way she walks over to him (different than the way they saw each other at first in the simulation), it looks like the app is legit. |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 4:33 PM Author: Topaz big crotch half-breed Someone needs to create this app ASAP (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35126520) |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 4:37 PM Author: Mahogany new version locale It will be a thing in ~20 years if you project out the exponential increase in computing power from the last few decades (e.g. the computer in your iPhone now is more powerful than the supercomputer that piloted Apollo). It would require a computer faster than Watson/AlphaGo in the palm of your hand to run that kind of sim. |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 4:39 PM Author: Topaz big crotch half-breed So our kids get to have this technology before we do? Fuck that, they’re getting the arkangel treatment. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35126567) |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 4:44 PM Author: red cruise ship legend Doesn't this assume that you have a "soul mate"? Take a group of 10,000 people - 50/50 male female and no homos. Don't we have to buy that redhead dude actually has a match somewhere in there and that his match is her match too. What if it matches with her but he is like the 50th best sim for her. Still a success? I know I am missing something here but the whole premise seems kinda sappy, old-school romantic. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35126612) |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 4:48 PM Author: Topaz big crotch half-breed It’s not about matching with your soul mate, it’s about maximizing compatibility (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35126647) |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 4:55 PM Author: red cruise ship legend Still, maximizing compatibility for A-Male might mean really discounting compatibility for B-Female. And maximizing compatibility for both might mean a meh match. Also seems to assume infinite users. I grab C-Female because it maximizes compatibility for both; however, you also match great with C-Female -- your max score, but just below mine, sorry. Now your match is D-Female, who is pretty way down the tables for you, but, you see, C-Female is now taken.
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Date: January 10th, 2018 4:56 PM Author: Drab wonderful pit sandwich At the very end of the simulation run we see that the people in the simulation have numbers above their heads, representing their "match percentage". The simulation says something like "1,000 simulations run". Basically, both main characters were in the app, ran it, and the simulation found that they were the best match among the thousand or so people that were in that simulation run (probably the number of people in that general location at that time who had the app running). I believe it's also implied by the language of their characters in the sim that they both put the settings in their app at 99.8% minimum match.
Given the mathematical precision of it, it's probably not necessary that there be only one soulmate for each person. |
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Date: January 12th, 2018 10:42 AM Author: Coiffed Shimmering Station Ape that's not actually how it works. each of the 1000 couples was the same couple pairing and the percentage refers to the numbers of times, under the imposed conditions of the simulation, that that particular pair "rebelled" against the simulation rules and attempted to exit "the system" via climbing the wall.
the logic is that every single possible pairing is run through the same simulation conditions: short first pairing with the potential match, long second pairing with a non-match, multiple short pairings with non-matches, followed by an "abbreviated" re-pairing with the match, followed by the impending pairing to an unknown "one" (who is definitively *not* the match) which spurs the will we / won't we decision of the initial match pair to exit "the system" based on them independently coming to the mutual conclusion that they are well matched to each other.
each time the pair combination successfully exits "the system" the match is therefore confirmed as successful and every time they fail to do so the match is deemed unsuccessful. Therefore, based on 1000 attempts with 998 successful 'exits' (i.e. rebellions against the system), the implied success rate of the irl relationship is calculated to be 998/1000 or 99.8%. |
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Date: January 12th, 2018 10:46 AM Author: Topaz big crotch half-breed (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35139322) |
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Date: January 12th, 2018 10:50 AM Author: Drab wonderful pit sandwich Thank you for that. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35139351) |
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Date: January 12th, 2018 10:53 AM Author: Coiffed Shimmering Station Ape yw. i watched it last night and was trying to explain it to my wife and gave up. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35139374) |
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Date: January 12th, 2018 1:07 PM Author: Learning Disabled Talented Cuckoldry Resort It isn't complicated, are you married to a literal retard? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35140472) |
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Date: January 12th, 2018 1:27 PM Author: Geriatric Shitlib (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35140639) |
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Date: January 16th, 2018 10:58 AM Author: Razzle Henna Skinny Woman Really good explanation, though where are you getting the part that they're run through the same sequence or simulation conditions? Seemed like their experiences were very different with the dude having way fewer partners while the chick just got plowed nonstop. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35167412) |
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Date: January 12th, 2018 1:24 PM Author: Geriatric Shitlib (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35140615) |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 4:05 PM Author: frisky kitty I honestly thought it was really weak and pretty 1 dimensional. San Junipero was way better IMO. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35126265) |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 4:32 PM Author: Topaz big crotch half-breed San Junipero is depressing when you realize the people who live there are just a simulation. Hang the DJ is the inverse of that episode and truly a happy ending. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35126514) |
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Date: January 10th, 2018 4:31 PM Author: Topaz big crotch half-breed Liked it better than San Junipero (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35126499) |
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Date: January 12th, 2018 11:12 AM Author: Vigorous Burgundy Immigrant Clown The best is still Black Museum. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35139528) |
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Date: January 12th, 2018 1:28 PM Author: overrated razzle-dazzle antidepressant drug forum Hang the DJ is pretty dark if you assume that the simulations are sentient like other examples in the Black Mirror universe (Black Museum, White Christmas, San Junipero, USS Callister). Users of that dating app are torturing and discarding digital versions of themselves just to find love. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35140650) |
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Date: January 12th, 2018 5:36 PM Author: Mahogany new version locale true, but at the end of the simulation, all the users' avatars disappear, so they're not locked in hell forever like in those other examples. They're just temporary. Still a bit creepy, though. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35142707) |
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Date: January 16th, 2018 11:23 AM Author: titillating foreskin Good season. Better than season 3 IMO. Some themes are repeating, sentient AI for sure, but the show is in the 4th season now and that’s to be expected.
USS Callister A- Arkangel B+ Crocodile B- Hang the DJ A Metalhead B- Black Museum A- |
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Date: January 19th, 2018 1:42 AM Author: Vibrant market Crocodile B-? That was the absolute worst ep of Black Mirror (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35187567) |
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Date: January 19th, 2018 1:44 AM Author: Greedy glittery native cr. one of the worst episodes of television in history. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35187572) |
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Date: March 10th, 2018 8:49 PM Author: Histrionic french casino Recently watched this episode and thought it was rife with xo themes.
Though the matching app is seemingly "random," in reality the two leads' relationship history is the type you'd see IRL.
Dweeby guy dates: girl out of his league for 12 hours w/o sex, a couple horrible shrews for way longer than he should, etc.
Attractive girl dates: guy she's not attracted to (the dweeby guy) for 12 hours, a few longish relationships with chads, then literally RIDES THE COCK CAROUSEL to the point where she loses count, is worn down, and is relieved to find a beta provider.
Absent the ending (where it was all a simulation leading to the couple's intial date), this would have been SPOT ON. |
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Date: March 17th, 2018 10:45 AM Author: Avocado principal's office Just reread this thread. Spaceporn is an amazing poster. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35625413) |
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Date: March 17th, 2018 6:13 PM Author: nubile center queen of the night My estimation of his IQ has grown three sizes this day (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35627521) |
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Date: November 8th, 2022 9:47 AM Author: dashing nowag (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#45455884) |
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Date: June 27th, 2023 8:52 PM Author: Rose Soul-stirring Juggernaut Hmm (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#46481674) |