PSA: S4E4 of Black Mirror (Hang the DJ) is the GOAT episode > San Junipero
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Date: December 31st, 2017 10:07 AM Author: stirring mint gaping
My favorite episode of s4 so far, was great except for giving away the ending about half way through
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35048508)
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Date: December 31st, 2017 11:23 AM Author: naked charismatic home
hmm.
Wouldnt we get it in a heartbeat though as soon as the question is asked? We've come to expect this sort of thing from black mirror.
Still, I was willing to go along with it without the twist, thinking that must just be life in post AI world.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35048915) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 12:02 PM Author: mischievous crusty business firm gay wizard
Google "Stanford prison experiment" and "milgram experiment" you fool.
It's entirely believable that a bunch of sadists who self-select for such an event and have committed to certain rules would behave that way.
Further, even if you don't believe that, fiction is stylizied reality that purposely exaggerates important ideas in interesting ways, not a facsimile of reality
I mean, this is going to blow your mind, but people in movies don't talk at all like people in real life!
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35049279) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 12:16 PM Author: naked charismatic home
here.
https://www.npr.org/2013/08/28/209559002/taking-a-closer-look-at-milgrams-shocking-obedience-study
not the end all be all but what im saying is a defect in the premise was that people would be so mean as to allow such a horrible thing to happen day after day without intervention and simply as spectators. some percentage would--sure. But not all--not every day. and thats just an example of a defect i recognized in the plot line of that story. there are others but as i said im not going to watch it again. This may be post hoc based on my "gut" response to the episode, but what is "gut" response but IN PART the same reasoning but on an unconscious level.
Point of fact, white bear was childish in some respects. Not bad, and not uncommon, but its not of the same quality as the better, cleaner episodes.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35049380) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 12:31 PM Author: mischievous crusty business firm gay wizard
Idk man. Like I said, yes IRL there would be frictions. You are seeing a stylized reality, a day where nothing goes wrong. Just like every other movie ever!! Given what we know about humanity's capacity for groupthink and evil, what you are seeing is "real enough," a near universe that forces you to think.
Put another way, your objection is that "well there would be some small problems with the premise if this happened in real life." But this tacitly lets the writers win, because you're acknowledging that such an evil, grotesque thing is only SLIGHTLY outside the realm of possibility. This is the point. "Haha this is stupid and entirely unrealistic, human nature is only evil enough to sustain 90% of that level of cruelty" is not really an objection to the writer's vision. If you have this thought, THE EPISODE WINS.
I mean, we never see the main character take a shit either. Does that bring you out of the experience, too?
See the essay I linked below for more.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35049479) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 12:38 PM Author: mischievous crusty business firm gay wizard
Holy fuck dude, did you not read a word I wrote?
Bullet point version: the criterion for good art is not how closely it mimics reality, even the reality of human nature. This is not to say that presenting compelling characters is not important, but that TELLING THE STORY is always the primary goal.
Fictional characters CANNOT and SHOULD NOT be clones of real people, their mannerisms, their beliefs, their behaviors, etc.
And again to reiterate: objecting that this episode is only 90% realistic means the writers accomplished exactly what they set out to do.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35049553) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 12:31 PM Author: naked charismatic home
well as i keep saying, my objection is the spectators are not representative of human nature--its only one objection. there would be more if i watched it again.
You seem to want to say "but yeah, they self-selected to be spectators as such." hmmm. maybe. but there were an awful lot of them. and just because you self-select, dont you change your mind while seeing the torment first hand or the terrified look of the woman as she passes--some small but significant portion would, no matter what. the fact that the spectators are "self selected" doesnt cure the problem.
It's an easy go-to to imagine people in general as vicious in these sort of creepy steven kingy horror stories... which lends to the creepiness of the story but its part of the defect that often crops up in narratives like this. there are always people who push back. that sort of component is what makes things more interesting. as viewers WE are the people who push back here, which is fine, but to be more interesting and accurate, at least one or two spectators would offer a kindly word or some help. It's unreal in that sense, and professional writers would agree. while theres a lot of cruelty in the world, theres also some kindness.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35049482) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 12:42 PM Author: naked charismatic home
maybe baby, etc.
any indication of this anywhere in the episode? would be more interesting if so.
Now you are making stuff up to defend your position. which you cant because you just don't have as much wisdom and insight as me, at least at this point in your life.
ITS also apparent to me that you were unaware of the nuances to the milgram experiment util i pointed it out to you, which you pointedly ignored because you are just not going to concede that I know more than you.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35049583) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 12:12 PM Author: mischievous crusty business firm gay wizard
I'm not saying you should like it, I'm saying your reason for not liking it is bad and likely a post-hoc justification of your gut reaction.
You clearly don't understand the evils ordinary people are willing to perform under the right circumstances (and in fact this episode explores that very idea!), and you don't understand what it means for a premise to be "workable."
The test of a premise is not whether it could actually happen 100% identically in real life with zero changes or frictions.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35049349) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 12:21 PM Author: mischievous crusty business firm gay wizard
Idk man, I don't know your life and what texts and movies have shaped your tastes. Some people like that style of horror, some don't. I don't think there's any deeper reason.
But if upon reflection your objection is still this silly thing about realism and believability, this essay is a decent (through imperfect) start:
http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2012/10/30/film-crit-hulk-smash-hulk-vs.-plot-holes-and-movie-logic
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35049416) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 12:56 PM Author: naked charismatic home
i dont disagree with the point.
but when the error is in how people actually would respond to something, thats a hard suspension of belief to maintain. it often breaks the willingness to suspend.
I like to watch little kids listen to stories. what do they lean in on, listen to very closely? dialogue. How people --people other than the protagonist--respond to stuff. They love testing this out against what they know about people thus far in their little lives.
If you as story teller fuck up this component--as many story tellers do, because they are aspie or worse, their story isnt all that good to begin with and needs to bend our expectation of what other characters should or would do iIRL--if you fuck this up, people will notice it, and it will be a little moment of not sitting right with them.
its as simple as that. you probably cant see it yet because your still a baby and dont know enough about human nature yet.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35049643) |
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Date: December 31st, 2017 1:08 PM Author: mischievous crusty business firm gay wizard
Ok, final post for real.
You object that IRL, some people wouldn't be comfortable torturing the lead character. Whatever.
The important part is that you recognize that SOME PEOPLE WOULD.
(And then the real question: how many? You seem to think quite a lot!)
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35049709) |
Date: January 2nd, 2018 2:27 AM Author: red supple lay brethren
i just watched a couple episodes for the first time a couple days ago
its a fun series but definitely just the modern version of twilight zone
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35061319) |
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Date: January 12th, 2018 10:42 AM Author: swashbuckling mauve nursing home weed whacker
that's not actually how it works. each of the 1000 couples was the same couple pairing and the percentage refers to the numbers of times, under the imposed conditions of the simulation, that that particular pair "rebelled" against the simulation rules and attempted to exit "the system" via climbing the wall.
the logic is that every single possible pairing is run through the same simulation conditions: short first pairing with the potential match, long second pairing with a non-match, multiple short pairings with non-matches, followed by an "abbreviated" re-pairing with the match, followed by the impending pairing to an unknown "one" (who is definitively *not* the match) which spurs the will we / won't we decision of the initial match pair to exit "the system" based on them independently coming to the mutual conclusion that they are well matched to each other.
each time the pair combination successfully exits "the system" the match is therefore confirmed as successful and every time they fail to do so the match is deemed unsuccessful. Therefore, based on 1000 attempts with 998 successful 'exits' (i.e. rebellions against the system), the implied success rate of the irl relationship is calculated to be 998/1000 or 99.8%.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35139297) |
Date: January 16th, 2018 11:23 AM Author: gaped sinister selfie multi-billionaire
Good season. Better than season 3 IMO. Some themes are repeating, sentient AI for sure, but the show is in the 4th season now and that’s to be expected.
USS Callister A-
Arkangel B+
Crocodile B-
Hang the DJ A
Metalhead B-
Black Museum A-
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35167569) |
Date: March 10th, 2018 8:49 PM Author: disturbing passionate headpube
Recently watched this episode and thought it was rife with xo themes.
Though the matching app is seemingly "random," in reality the two leads' relationship history is the type you'd see IRL.
Dweeby guy dates: girl out of his league for 12 hours w/o sex, a couple horrible shrews for way longer than he should, etc.
Attractive girl dates: guy she's not attracted to (the dweeby guy) for 12 hours, a few longish relationships with chads, then literally RIDES THE COCK CAROUSEL to the point where she loses count, is worn down, and is relieved to find a beta provider.
Absent the ending (where it was all a simulation leading to the couple's intial date), this would have been SPOT ON.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3844074&forum_id=2#35578466) |
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