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Watched 1st Ep Of Ken Burns Vietnam

it was a good historical primer on the lead up to the war. l...
Cheese-eating Crimson Immigrant Corn Cake
  01/04/18
Weird how lefties adore JFK since he was basically the Georg...
Razzle-dazzle parlour affirmative action
  01/04/18
cr. though the world would be a better place if leading us s...
Cheese-eating Crimson Immigrant Corn Cake
  01/04/18
i prefer the series "battlefield: vietnam." it wa...
aphrodisiac buck-toothed legend son of senegal
  01/04/18
that's old right? facts about what specifically? beyond t...
Cheese-eating Crimson Immigrant Corn Cake
  01/04/18
we watched ep 2 last nite. w/o hindsight, were jfk and mc...
Cheese-eating Crimson Immigrant Corn Cake
  01/05/18
Noam Chomsky of all people has claimed that the domino theor...
well-lubricated vigorous mood
  01/12/18
what's the counterargument to this?
Cheese-eating Crimson Immigrant Corn Cake
  01/12/18
Its a silly fear to think that proximity matters more than c...
Unholy Laughsome Crackhouse
  01/12/18
this seems kinda dumb. why would vietnam-laos-cambodia be an...
Cheese-eating Crimson Immigrant Corn Cake
  01/12/18
Trent Reznor soundtrack
sinister house-broken site
  01/05/18
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oU4ZbLzaqRI
Azure abnormal casino old irish cottage
  01/05/18
watched ep 3. this series is getting a little tedious and TM...
Cheese-eating Crimson Immigrant Corn Cake
  01/12/18
LOL @ Koch brothers propaganda
Fighting bronze national
  01/12/18
?
Cheese-eating Crimson Immigrant Corn Cake
  01/12/18
Koch brothers paid for it.
Fighting bronze national
  01/12/18
it's pretty anti-war. why would the koch brothers have wante...
Cheese-eating Crimson Immigrant Corn Cake
  01/12/18
It's very anti-hippie.
well-lubricated vigorous mood
  01/12/18
it's very anti-war / anti-military establishment though
Cheese-eating Crimson Immigrant Corn Cake
  01/12/18
Have you read about how the series is being received in Viet...
Fuchsia Tank
  01/12/18
no i havent. link? explain 2. even if they did obscure st...
Cheese-eating Crimson Immigrant Corn Cake
  01/12/18
Looking for the link, but can you understand that winning fo...
Fuchsia Tank
  01/12/18
my personal take is that gooks never even wanted communism. ...
Cheese-eating Crimson Immigrant Corn Cake
  01/12/18
Here's the only link I could find: https://www.voanews.co...
Fuchsia Tank
  01/12/18
why was the north more of a shithole even before colonialism...
Cheese-eating Crimson Immigrant Corn Cake
  01/12/18
I think it’s just really anti-The Vietnam war as a thing. N...
Unholy Laughsome Crackhouse
  01/12/18
It challenges conventional wisdom on a number of counts and ...
Fuchsia Tank
  01/12/18
hasnt that always been the previous conventional wisdom -- t...
Cheese-eating Crimson Immigrant Corn Cake
  01/12/18
We lost the war because the enemy defeated us.
Fighting bronze national
  01/12/18
Not at all. Many people believe there's really no such thing...
Fuchsia Tank
  01/12/18
i see. i'm not far enough along, but were the draftees wh...
Cheese-eating Crimson Immigrant Corn Cake
  01/12/18
According to the documentary volunteers and draftees fought ...
Fuchsia Tank
  01/12/18
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/09/vietnam-war-ken-burns-us-...
Fighting bronze national
  01/12/18
Nice. Never mentioned Korea once. That takes some effort.
shivering gas station jap
  01/12/18
It’s incredible. I’ve watched most of it twice and will wat...
Unholy Laughsome Crackhouse
  01/12/18
...
sinister house-broken site
  01/12/18
American and western conceptions of war were misinformed and...
honey-headed comical multi-billionaire
  01/12/18
we're 7 eps in. this got MUCH better and is now 180. first 2...
Cheese-eating Crimson Immigrant Corn Cake
  01/26/18
Unforunately for the south Vietnamamese
Titillating native
  01/26/18
ljl
Cheese-eating Crimson Immigrant Corn Cake
  01/26/18


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Reply Favorite

Date: January 4th, 2018 5:30 PM
Author: Cheese-eating Crimson Immigrant Corn Cake

it was a good historical primer on the lead up to the war. lots of shit i didnt know much about -- HCM's early years, formation of viet min, the french occupation, geneva accords, founding of south vietnam.

that's the stuff i didnt really know. not sure i'm looking forward to 9 eps about the details of the us war itself and endless vids of shitlib hippies protesting and sad stories of troops dying. i kinda know that part already. still worth watching?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35082018)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 4th, 2018 5:39 PM
Author: Razzle-dazzle parlour affirmative action

Weird how lefties adore JFK since he was basically the George Bush of his day

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35082100)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 4th, 2018 5:40 PM
Author: Cheese-eating Crimson Immigrant Corn Cake

cr. though the world would be a better place if leading us shitlibs were jfk types not maxine waters and liz warren

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35082108)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 4th, 2018 5:45 PM
Author: aphrodisiac buck-toothed legend son of senegal

i prefer the series "battlefield: vietnam." it was more facts-oriented and excised all the long boring interviews.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35082138)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 4th, 2018 5:48 PM
Author: Cheese-eating Crimson Immigrant Corn Cake

that's old right?

facts about what specifically? beyond the big picture, are the vietnam war battle details that interesting?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35082156)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 5th, 2018 6:06 PM
Author: Cheese-eating Crimson Immigrant Corn Cake

we watched ep 2 last nite.

w/o hindsight, were jfk and mcnamara that wrong about the domino theory? the execution in VN was obviously bad, but seems like the intention of stopping communism wasnt all bad at the time.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35090369)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 12th, 2018 2:33 PM
Author: well-lubricated vigorous mood

Noam Chomsky of all people has claimed that the domino theory worked: after other countries in the region (e.g. Thailand, Philippines, Malaysia) saw how badly we wrecked Vietnam they stomped out their communist movements with the quickness. Cambodia went communist but that were aligned with China, not the USSR, and by that time Nixon had already pivoted to China.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141256)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 12th, 2018 2:36 PM
Author: Cheese-eating Crimson Immigrant Corn Cake

what's the counterargument to this?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141290)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 12th, 2018 2:40 PM
Author: Unholy Laughsome Crackhouse

Its a silly fear to think that proximity matters more than culture and unique economic and political situations.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141315)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 12th, 2018 2:51 PM
Author: Cheese-eating Crimson Immigrant Corn Cake

this seems kinda dumb. why would vietnam-laos-cambodia be any more likely to fall into communism than the rest of se asia?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141434)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 5th, 2018 6:08 PM
Author: sinister house-broken site

Trent Reznor soundtrack

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35090385)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 5th, 2018 6:11 PM
Author: Azure abnormal casino old irish cottage

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oU4ZbLzaqRI

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35090416)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 12th, 2018 2:23 PM
Author: Cheese-eating Crimson Immigrant Corn Cake

watched ep 3. this series is getting a little tedious and TMI with details of every battle that i'm not gonna remember. and the interviews are excessive and repetitive.

it's still pretty good. but i think each ep could have been an hour not 90 minutes

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141146)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 12th, 2018 2:27 PM
Author: Fighting bronze national

LOL @ Koch brothers propaganda

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141187)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 12th, 2018 2:28 PM
Author: Cheese-eating Crimson Immigrant Corn Cake

?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141188)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 12th, 2018 2:28 PM
Author: Fighting bronze national

Koch brothers paid for it.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141196)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 12th, 2018 2:29 PM
Author: Cheese-eating Crimson Immigrant Corn Cake

it's pretty anti-war. why would the koch brothers have wanted to pay for an anti-war movie?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141205)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 12th, 2018 2:34 PM
Author: well-lubricated vigorous mood

It's very anti-hippie.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141268)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 12th, 2018 2:35 PM
Author: Cheese-eating Crimson Immigrant Corn Cake

it's very anti-war / anti-military establishment though

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141281)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 12th, 2018 2:41 PM
Author: Fuchsia Tank

Have you read about how the series is being received in Vietnam? Apparently people there are pissed off that their government 1) covered up atrocities by the communists, and 2) obscured statistics about the death toll in order to promote the idea that the war was worth fighting. As dumb as the war may have been for America, it was a much bigger mistake for Vietnam to not dump the USSR and follow Thailand and South Korea's example.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141325)



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Date: January 12th, 2018 2:52 PM
Author: Cheese-eating Crimson Immigrant Corn Cake

no i havent. link?

explain 2. even if they did obscure stats, the fact that they won kinda vindicates the idea that the war was worth fighting.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141450)



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Date: January 12th, 2018 2:55 PM
Author: Fuchsia Tank

Looking for the link, but can you understand that winning for the sake of winning is not worth 3 million dead plus decades of brutal poverty and starvation? Vietnamese today are busting their asses trying to get caught up with the rest of the developed world. They want nothing to do with communism. "Victory" brought them nothing but misery. There is even talk of letting the US Navy use their port facilities now.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141484)



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Date: January 12th, 2018 2:58 PM
Author: Cheese-eating Crimson Immigrant Corn Cake

my personal take is that gooks never even wanted communism. they just wanted whitey out of their country. i do think it's alpha that they were able to stand up to both the french and the americans and get their own country. so to me, it's more than winning just to win.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141505)



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Date: January 12th, 2018 3:10 PM
Author: Fuchsia Tank

Here's the only link I could find:

https://www.voanews.com/a/vietnam-war-documentary-draws-muted-official-response-in-hanoi/4041620.html

There was a better article I saw but I'm still looking for it.

Anyway yes, they were primarily fighting whitey. But bear in mind that Vietnamese are just as susceptible as anyone to irrational jingoism, xenophobia and paranoia. Appeals to patriotism only go so far after 30 years of starvation and suffering. Vietnamese today seem more interested in making a quick buck and going to the mall than resisting western imperialism. There was always a big divide between North and South Vietnam even before the French arrived, and South Vietnam under the French was more prosperous and developed. Over time the South Vietnamese attitude has become dominant, and now Hanoi seems fully on board with their way of thinking even though official propaganda still lauds ho chi minh as a demigod.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141635)



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Date: January 12th, 2018 3:13 PM
Author: Cheese-eating Crimson Immigrant Corn Cake

why was the north more of a shithole even before colonialism? werent the north more in the sinosphere and more educated and the southerners more of an ethnic mishmash?

now, vietnam is just becoming another GC pawn

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141654)



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Date: January 12th, 2018 2:41 PM
Author: Unholy Laughsome Crackhouse

I think it’s just really anti-The Vietnam war as a thing. No one comes out clean and that’s why KB is so good. He just presents all the facts, places them in the actual context, and personally doesn’t care about which side was right because he is a historian.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141335)



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Date: January 12th, 2018 2:38 PM
Author: Fuchsia Tank

It challenges conventional wisdom on a number of counts and promotes the view that we had the gooks by the balls after the tet offensive but that domestic politics held us back. It places blame for the political reaction primarily on the Johnson administration for perpetually lying about how well the war was going, so that any setback challenged the official narrative and made Americans distrust any truthful reporting of American successes.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141302)



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Date: January 12th, 2018 2:40 PM
Author: Cheese-eating Crimson Immigrant Corn Cake

hasnt that always been the previous conventional wisdom -- that we lost the war because we lost the american people

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141314)



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Date: January 12th, 2018 2:41 PM
Author: Fighting bronze national

We lost the war because the enemy defeated us.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141327)



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Date: January 12th, 2018 2:42 PM
Author: Fuchsia Tank

Not at all. Many people believe there's really no such thing as an effective counter-insurgency against an enemy who knows the terrain. They think the gooks just had the upper hand militarily. The documentary points out that our soldiers were just as badass as the guys who fought in WW2 and that gook losses were more significant than most people believe.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141341)



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Date: January 12th, 2018 2:54 PM
Author: Cheese-eating Crimson Immigrant Corn Cake

i see.

i'm not far enough along, but were the draftees who didnt volunteer as badass as the volunteers who went early on?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141473)



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Date: January 12th, 2018 2:59 PM
Author: Fuchsia Tank

According to the documentary volunteers and draftees fought heroically early on. After Nixon announced that we were withdrawing they refused to fight and started fragging commanders who ordered them to do foot patrols in the jungle.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141519)



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Date: January 12th, 2018 2:39 PM
Author: Fighting bronze national

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/09/vietnam-war-ken-burns-us-imperialism

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141309)



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Date: January 12th, 2018 5:00 PM
Author: shivering gas station jap

Nice. Never mentioned Korea once. That takes some effort.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35142451)



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Date: January 12th, 2018 2:38 PM
Author: Unholy Laughsome Crackhouse

It’s incredible. I’ve watched most of it twice and will watch again.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141307)



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Date: January 12th, 2018 2:55 PM
Author: sinister house-broken site



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35141483)



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Date: January 12th, 2018 4:00 PM
Author: honey-headed comical multi-billionaire

American and western conceptions of war were misinformed and I thought that was the takeaway from the documentary. Americans thought you could fight another country's civil war without accounting for the popular will of the people. They thought winning was all about body count. They let ideology govern policy while ignoring practical consideration. There's also no doubt notions of racial and cultural superiority played a role. I think after Vietnam and Korea, Westerners were done fucking with Asians and decided to stick to picking on Arabs and Latin/South Americans.

The irony today is that Vietnam is closer to the US than it is to China.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35142006)



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Date: January 26th, 2018 1:43 PM
Author: Cheese-eating Crimson Immigrant Corn Cake

we're 7 eps in. this got MUCH better and is now 180. first 2-3 eps were a little slow/dull. the action really stepped up and the interviewees are much more compelling and the footage is much better.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35245178)



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Date: January 26th, 2018 2:01 PM
Author: Titillating native

Unforunately for the south Vietnamamese

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35245357)



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Date: January 26th, 2018 2:04 PM
Author: Cheese-eating Crimson Immigrant Corn Cake

ljl

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849522&forum_id=2#35245387)