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Explain people who get fired in Biglaw
Poast new message in this thread
Date: January 4th, 2018 10:01 PM Author: Laughsome bull headed cruise ship What do you have to do for a firm to actually fire you? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35084050) |
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Date: January 5th, 2018 10:16 AM Author: federal wrinkle garrison Be smart enough to get fired and live a real life outside corporate slavery. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35086985) |
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Date: January 5th, 2018 1:25 PM Author: Harsh Old Irish Cottage Hunting Ground (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35088063) |
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Date: January 5th, 2018 1:35 PM Author: Godawful spot athletic conference (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35088126) |
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Date: January 5th, 2018 5:04 PM Author: Self-centered Charismatic Casino Just have to pay off your 300k debt first. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35089829) |
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Date: January 7th, 2018 2:40 PM Author: Boyish claret pervert lol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35102945) |
Date: January 4th, 2018 10:03 PM Author: Ultramarine Double Fault Miss an important deadline.
Moral impropriety.
Piss off an important partner.
Ethical violation.
Multiple failures of bar.
Give inaccurate, actionable guidance to an important client on a material issue.
Sustained low billing.
Criminal act. |
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Date: January 4th, 2018 10:03 PM Author: Laughsome bull headed cruise ship seems about right, 180 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35084081) |
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Date: January 4th, 2018 10:06 PM Author: Pungent brethren resort spin, ratfucks (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35084110) |
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Date: January 4th, 2018 10:11 PM Author: Ultramarine Double Fault No. In fact some of the most ethical men I know serve in the V10 Corp.
Examples:
- Gross misappropriation of resources (expense falsification) - Intentionally committing violations of ethical practice (e.g., evidence destruction) - Attempts to use proprietary client information for personal profit - Intentional breach of various client duties in an egregious fashion on a material issue (like confidentiality; self-dealing per above; privilege) |
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Date: January 4th, 2018 10:19 PM Author: Pungent brethren resort spin, ratfucks (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35084216) |
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Date: January 4th, 2018 10:33 PM Author: bat-shit-crazy violet marketing idea stead Horse sex (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35084323) |
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Date: January 4th, 2018 10:39 PM Author: Ultramarine Double Fault (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35084373) |
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Date: January 5th, 2018 11:30 AM Author: cerise newt pozpig (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35087355) |
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Date: January 5th, 2018 4:20 PM Author: Pungent brethren resort spin, ratfucks (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35089500) |
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Date: January 4th, 2018 10:16 PM Author: Multi-colored Useless Brakes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35084195) |
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Date: January 4th, 2018 10:05 PM Author: cowardly sound barrier friendly grandma Depends on the firm. It's an up or out model, so if attrition isn't as expected ,they will push people out when they get too senior. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35084091) |
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Date: January 4th, 2018 10:06 PM Author: Ultramarine Double Fault Credited although I'd hasten to add fewer and fewer firms in the V25 are up and out these days due to profit pressure (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35084103) |
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Date: January 4th, 2018 10:10 PM Author: confused milky black woman nursing home how does profit impact the calculus? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35084138) |
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Date: January 4th, 2018 10:12 PM Author: Ultramarine Double Fault You keep people around as of counsel or non-equity. Still bill them out at $1k per hour based on their experience but pay them a fraction of what they'd make as a true partner. Profit. This is a major driver of profits in the last 10 years (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35084158) |
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Date: January 4th, 2018 10:19 PM Author: cowardly sound barrier friendly grandma *shudders* (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35084217) |
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Date: January 4th, 2018 10:21 PM Author: Glittery Disgusting Whorehouse Toilet Seat (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35084230) |
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Date: January 4th, 2018 10:51 PM Author: Sickened garnet parlour not really the worst gig in the world. what are they making like 400K all in? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35084463) |
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Date: January 4th, 2018 10:52 PM Author: cowardly sound barrier friendly grandma varies widely. many of counsel types arent seeing the large bonuses senior associates get since their mobility is more limited. firms know they dont have to pay them to stay. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35084472) |
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Date: January 4th, 2018 10:56 PM Author: Sickened garnet parlour alright but I'd assume they still make a base salary that is comparable to high level associates at least?
I can't imagine you'd go up to 315K then drop down to 200K or something when you become of counsel. |
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Date: January 4th, 2018 10:56 PM Author: cowardly sound barrier friendly grandma yeah i think thats fair, they prob are all making at least what an 8th year makes base, maybe more (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35084508) |
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Date: January 4th, 2018 10:59 PM Author: big spruce area nyc biglaw counsel just graduating from the associate ranks make $400-450k all in ime (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35084530) |
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Date: January 4th, 2018 10:59 PM Author: cowardly sound barrier friendly grandma sure, but it varies. also, not everyone is in nyc. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35084537) |
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Date: January 4th, 2018 11:00 PM Author: Sickened garnet parlour that's better than all in at most firms for 8th year associates. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35084546) |
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Date: January 4th, 2018 11:00 PM Author: Sickened garnet parlour are of counsel looked down on at all? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35084548) |
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Date: January 4th, 2018 11:04 PM Author: Ultramarine Double Fault That's a really broad question. In part because there are lots of different paths to of counsel and in part because different people take different attitudes toward them. The default premise of an of counsel is you're no longer in the running for true partnership at the firm. That could be because you can't generate sufficient business or because of politics or because of an economic cycle or your talent level or because you're simply an older former equity partner who is winding down. Whether that gets looked down on depends on the person you're dealing with. Some people view of counsel as wise dudes / ladies who make the best bargain in biglaw; others as people who couldn't cut it; others as victims of unfortunate timing or circumstance. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35084591) |
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Date: January 4th, 2018 11:17 PM Author: cowardly sound barrier friendly grandma Cr, of counsels are not all the same (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35084740) |
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Date: January 5th, 2018 1:35 PM Author: Racy magical jap seems like some firms now basically treat of counsel as their new term for nonequity partners and just hold them there for two years before equity. at my firm of counsels are either deequitized former partners who for some reason decided to stay, former non-equity partners that didn't make equity in the time required, mommy trackers, or supersenior associate socially awkward types who are good lawyers but had zero chance of developing business (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35088127) |
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Date: January 4th, 2018 11:17 PM Author: Chest-beating flushed temple Secenth year associates make 400k, all in. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35084741) |
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Date: January 5th, 2018 1:40 AM Author: Floppy affirmative action rehab this really just effects senior associates getting a partnership look. there's still up-or-out pressure at every step of the way before then, and after then a lot of non-equities get pushed out if they don't make equity. PLUS, because these roles have by and large replaced equity partnership for millennials, all it did was change what "up" was, not reduce up-or-out pressure. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35085753) |
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Date: January 5th, 2018 1:52 AM Author: Glittery Disgusting Whorehouse Toilet Seat This is very true (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35085808) |
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Date: January 5th, 2018 10:13 AM Author: Ultramarine Double Fault Not sure I agree. People are getting pushed "off-cycle" at almost every step of the journey these days in ways that just didn't exist a generation ago. I know of everyone from midlevel associates to former BSD equity partners who have been transitioned into of-counsel roles (and people in-between--junior partners who aren't going to get the real golden ring; people who want to transition to part time practice).
Many of these individuals would have simply been told "goodbye" a generation ago. But somewhere along the way law firms got wise to the fact that keeping people around in permanent non-partnership capacities was a major untapped profit center. Hence the deterioration in the up and out model. It still exists, to be sure, but it's now a heavily watered down version of what it once was. |
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Date: January 5th, 2018 12:04 PM Author: Floppy affirmative action rehab A generation ago many of these people would've just been service partners where they hang around underproducing for the rest of their careers after their patron is gone, which is why there's so many worthless boomer partners. The service equity partner role is being replaced by of-counsel and permanent associate roles. Sure there are other ways to get there (part time arrangements, random technical expertise) but these opportunities aren't available to most.
I think what you're saying about reducing pressure only applies at a handful of hyper competitive firms that would only promote an extremely limited number of partners in the first place. It's much smaller than V25; it's an tiny assortment of elite boutiques and top firms from around the country. But even then, there's only so much demand for de facto service partners, so once one tax of counsel role gets filled there isn't going to be room for another, ever. |
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Date: January 5th, 2018 11:31 AM Author: cerise newt pozpig BOOMERS: never not fucking millenials (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35087362) |
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Date: January 4th, 2018 10:05 PM Author: Opaque Set Just be obviously not cut out for it. Lack of judgment is the insta-killer. You can be supreme at the law and have no idea how to handle a human interaction and have a better chance of breakfast than someone who everyone loves but made an obvious client relations mistake. The likable nerd would have asked the partner.
I worked for a humane shop and my favorite people are still there and have either made partner or are up for partner. The retards (people who fuck up in years 1-4) get pushed out in a humane way. They are retards tho, so they don't realize it's humane. |
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Date: January 4th, 2018 10:14 PM Author: Opaque Set People who are marginal exit on their own, I say this as someone who was top tier marginal. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35084177) |
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Date: January 4th, 2018 10:34 PM Author: Dashing bawdyhouse sandwich Good post except for referring to your firm or practice as a "shop." (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35084327) |
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Date: January 5th, 2018 11:08 AM Author: carnelian exciting milk menage Explain what you mean by humane. Most 1-4 years who I observed getting pushed out got booted quickly and with no prospect to find anything else. The humane push outs I saw when I was still in biglaw were typically mid and senior associates who were not making breakfast or counsel, and they would get stuff like the firm would let them keep their name on the website for an eternity after they were gone and tell prospective employers they still worked at firm. This was 10+ years ago, though. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35087240) |
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Date: January 7th, 2018 6:49 AM Author: Opaque Set They're told to find a new job, not fired. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35100825) |
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Date: January 4th, 2018 10:05 PM Author: poppy antidepressant drug step-uncle's house Trading crypto all day. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35084095) |
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Date: January 4th, 2018 10:06 PM Author: Ultramarine Double Fault (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35084106) |
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Date: January 4th, 2018 10:13 PM Author: Shaky chapel You get very bored after 4-5 years of doing the same thing every day without end no matter how good the comp is. It is not intellectually stimulating. The chasing commas thing is beyond draining. At one point you just stop giving a fuck and just phone it in until they fire you. Most people can't do that shit indefinitely without snapping. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35084171) |
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Date: January 4th, 2018 10:21 PM Author: Turquoise location generalized bond Why the fuck are you ITT giving an opinion on this topic? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35084232) |
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Date: January 4th, 2018 10:24 PM Author: concupiscible purple indian lodge clown (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35084250) |
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Date: January 4th, 2018 10:32 PM Author: cowardly sound barrier friendly grandma (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35084312) |
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Date: January 4th, 2018 10:38 PM Author: bat-shit-crazy violet marketing idea stead Poasting is like an RPG for him (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35084362) |
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Date: January 5th, 2018 1:56 AM Author: Vigorous school cafeteria volcanic crater (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35085825) |
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Date: January 5th, 2018 2:47 AM Author: Sable fanboi stag film (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35085970) |
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Date: January 5th, 2018 10:39 AM Author: Unholy thriller azn corner (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35087085) |
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Date: January 5th, 2018 11:20 AM Author: Appetizing state (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35087305) |
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Date: January 7th, 2018 4:07 PM Author: Useless citrine stage cq (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35103520) |
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Date: January 4th, 2018 10:29 PM Author: marvelous twinkling windowlicker You never did biglaw, you midget loser (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35084291) |
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Date: January 4th, 2018 10:43 PM Author: abusive aqua potus IME it’s damn near impossible to get fired. I tried to get fired from a v10 and then a v30, billed 1500 hours a year of padded as fuck entries and didn’t go in on fridays for 7 months at a time, among other nonfeasance, and still had to resign. You are profitable even being a slackass biller and they don’t want to pay you severance or unemployment so it’s sorta like an unspoken bargain that you can coat for a loooong time. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35084404) |
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Date: January 4th, 2018 10:49 PM Author: Multi-colored Useless Brakes Are you still taking your biglaw cocktail, tho? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35084451) |
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Date: January 4th, 2018 11:02 PM Author: abusive aqua potus Coasted then gave notice. I got out alive. Still on the sauce but no longer using amphetamines to regulate normal bodily functions. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35084566) |
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Date: January 4th, 2018 11:09 PM Author: Multi-colored Useless Brakes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35084645) |
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Date: January 4th, 2018 10:51 PM Author: cowardly sound barrier friendly grandma like i said, depends on the firm (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35084465) |
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Date: January 4th, 2018 11:00 PM Author: big spruce area how did you shirk work?
i tried so hard to say no and it was like pounding sand. they just insisted. of course i never said "no or i'll quit" but can't imagine you can go nuclear like that and keep your job for long. |
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Date: January 4th, 2018 11:04 PM Author: abusive aqua potus I only got up to 5th year so there was always someone above me that I could square with and just say “look bro, I’m not in this for a long time and I’m burnt out, find someone else”.
I also just faked a wedding where I was a groomsman anytime weekend work came up or someone called me out on not being in office Friday’s. |
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Date: January 4th, 2018 11:30 PM Author: brass box office regret Lol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35084855) |
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Date: January 5th, 2018 11:10 AM Author: Contagious home Lol 180 use of the wedding excuse
Are you practicing in a firm now? |
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Date: January 5th, 2018 11:21 AM Author: Appetizing state very 180 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35087312) |
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Date: January 5th, 2018 4:37 PM Author: stimulating cream church place of business lmao i had a female friend in biglaw who was always a "bridesmaid" in a "cousin's wedding" every time she wanted to get out of something, (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35089632) |
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Date: January 4th, 2018 11:06 PM Author: hairraiser senate ratface 1500 is not absurdly low though. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35084613) |
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Date: January 4th, 2018 11:08 PM Author: Ultramarine Double Fault (Not a flip flop-wearing associate) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35084637) |
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Date: January 4th, 2018 11:11 PM Author: abusive aqua potus I don’t know what my realization rate was but ljl if clients were paying for my 7.7 (review and analyze draft term sheet and incorporate comments re same). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35084670) |
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Date: January 4th, 2018 11:48 PM Author: hairraiser senate ratface IME, this is more broadly about the client/matter than the specific work performed (e.g., every associate's hours are cut no matter what the quality or none are). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35085017) |
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Date: January 5th, 2018 4:37 PM Author: stimulating cream church place of business depends on the deals.
lots of times the fees are so small relative to the deal size that the client doesn't care. |
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Date: January 5th, 2018 4:53 PM Author: sooty swashbuckling station What in the fuck are you talking about? You mean not low enough for them to pull you into a conference room 3 months in (which I guess would be 375 hours) and summarily shitcan you? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35089774) |
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Date: January 7th, 2018 2:38 PM Author: hairraiser senate ratface theres no firm on earth where that would happen (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35102936) |
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Date: January 4th, 2018 11:05 PM Author: smoky overrated base Call a female associate fat (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35084604) |
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Date: January 4th, 2018 11:13 PM Author: Amber national security agency What about people that have nervous breakdowns? Are they always quietly pushed out? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35084692) |
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Date: January 5th, 2018 10:21 AM Author: Lavender Provocative Center Cuck how about people who have relaxed and deliberate breakdowns? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35087010) |
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Date: January 5th, 2018 11:22 AM Author: Contagious home (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35087317) |
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Date: January 7th, 2018 6:48 AM Author: Opaque Set (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35100823) |
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Date: January 5th, 2018 1:23 PM Author: impertinent zippy queen of the night (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35088043) |
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Date: January 5th, 2018 4:28 PM Author: Henna dragon deer antler Guy that got canned as a junior here.
Didn't bill much (about 1400 hours first year), was miserable and it was obvious to everyone (mentor told me to act happier), and offended the rainmaker partner of the group because I hated the work she did and did everything possible to avoid her projects. |
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Date: January 5th, 2018 4:30 PM Author: Appetizing state what are you doing now? (no doobs) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35089587) |
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Date: January 5th, 2018 4:49 PM Author: Henna dragon deer antler left law (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35089749) |
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Date: January 5th, 2018 5:03 PM Author: Appetizing state are you better off now? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35089820) |
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Date: January 5th, 2018 5:27 PM Author: Henna dragon deer antler Yes 100%. I knew I wouldn't last in big law and had no loans (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35089994) |
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Date: January 5th, 2018 5:03 PM Author: Contagious home good call (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35089822) |
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Date: January 5th, 2018 4:41 PM Author: ebony fragrant dingle berry business firm key word: HER
you ran afoul of some catty bitch |
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Date: January 5th, 2018 4:49 PM Author: Henna dragon deer antler yup. (((She))) was insecure about her shitty practice area (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3849793&forum_id=2#35089743) |