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Working toward a world where that Grace and Aziz date no longer happens

I’m raising two sons and a daughter, and I don’t want any of...
spruce nibblets
  01/18/18
We had that world. In 1955. The boomer sexual revolution and...
Unhinged macaca lay
  01/18/18
...
silver fanboi
  01/18/18
Got to give them credit for burning down the house and succe...
Milky Marvelous Sex Offender Crackhouse
  01/18/18
...
talented university partner
  01/18/18
...
saffron brethren potus
  01/18/18
...
silver fanboi
  01/18/18
...
Irate Church Digit Ratio
  01/18/18
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wonderful bawdyhouse
  01/18/18
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sapphire ceo
  01/18/18
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arousing space yarmulke
  01/18/18
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pearly lascivious market depressive
  01/18/18
...
spruce nibblets
  01/19/18
...
Idiotic amethyst forum
  01/19/18
Pic of author pls
Milky Marvelous Sex Offender Crackhouse
  01/18/18
completely insane to argue that girls are "strongly soc...
talented university partner
  01/18/18
holy scripture of the religion of victimhood
Irate Church Digit Ratio
  01/18/18
"Author Peggy Orenstein is brilliant on this. Her 2016 ...
salmon slippery locale cuckoldry
  01/18/18
...
erotic crawly theater stage
  01/18/18
...
Milky Marvelous Sex Offender Crackhouse
  01/19/18
...
spruce nibblets
  01/19/18


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Reply Favorite

Date: January 18th, 2018 12:20 PM
Author: spruce nibblets

I’m raising two sons and a daughter, and I don’t want any of them to have a date like Aziz and “Grace” had.

I don’t want my boys to define a good date as, “Come hell or high water, I climaxed.”

I don’t want my girl feeling such a profound need to be pleasing — and safe — that she stifles her own voice in favor of too easily dismissed nonverbal cues and an “I’d rather not hate you.”

I don’t want to live in a culture that gave way to the night described in that now-infamous article. But I’m all too aware that we do.

“Most of my discomfort was expressed in me pulling away and mumbling,” the 23-year-old known as Grace told the website babe in the article, “I went on a date with Aziz Ansari. It turned into the worst night of my life,” published Saturday. “I know that my hand stopped moving at some points. I stopped moving my lips and turned cold. … I know I was physically giving off cues that I wasn’t interested. I don’t think that was noticed at all, or if it was, it was ignored.”

I’ve been on that date. Most women I know have.

We’re at loggerheads over whether her story deserved to be aired, whether it belongs in #MeToo, whether it was a lousy date or a sexual assault or something in between.

What we should be talking about is how to make sure fewer of those dates take place — now, and years from now.

If any good is to come from the Aziz/Grace saga, we need to get comfortable hanging out in the gray area for a while — the area between “lousy date” and “sexual assault.”

But how?

First, by acknowledging some truths. I’ve read a lot of them in the days since Grace took her story public, launching a discussion about consent, gender and #MeToo that might just move the needle, if we can set aside our need for clear-cut villains and victims.

One:

“Girls are raised with a contradictory set of expectations: be kind and acquiescent, but also be the brakes on male sexual desire,” Jill Filipovic writes in The Guardian, in the best piece I’ve read thus far on the topic. “We are taught to reflexively say yes except for when we’re supposed to definitively say no.”

Be game, that is, but not so game that you veer into slut territory.

Two:

“In a perfect world,” Filipovic writes, “Grace would have walked out the door. But women are so strongly socialized to put others’ comfort ahead of our own that even when we are furiously uncomfortable, it feels paralyzing to assert ourselves.”

We stigmatize women for being too assertive. We punish them for not being assertive enough.

Three:

“The idea that men have more sexual desire than women still goes unchallenged,” Anna North writes in Vox, “leading too many men to believe that a lukewarm yes is all they’re ever going to get, because women don’t like sex that much anyway.”

Author Peggy Orenstein is brilliant on this. Her 2016 book, “Girls & Sex: Navigating the Complicated New Landscape” (Harper), encourages parents to talk to daughters about acknowledging and prioritizing their own desire and pleasure so sex doesn’t take the shape of something boys and men do, and girls and women have done to them.

We need to acknowledge that we’re still socializing boys and girls with gender expectations that are decades old, even though dates look nothing like they used to.

We need to talk up enthusiastic consent — when both parties are equally eager, when no one’s wearing anyone down, when no one’s being worn down. We need to empower our girls and boys, both, to say, “Oh, hell yes” as well as, “Oh, hell no.” We need to help our girls and our boys listen for both.

This training is going to have to take place, largely, at home.

We’re nowhere near universal, comprehensive sex education in our schools. We’re up to our eyeballs in entertainment and media shaped mostly by the folks who expound and exploit the very messages we need to disrupt.

It’s daunting. We’re haunted and embarrassed, many of us, by our own experiences that fall somewhere between “lousy date” and “sexual assault.”

We’re shaped, still, by the messages we grew up surrounded by. In “Girls & Sex,” Orenstein interviewed dozens of young women ages 15 to 20 about intimacy.

"Usually the opposite of a negative is a positive,” one young woman told her. “But when you're talking about girls and sex, the opposite of slut is prude, both of which are negative. So what are you supposed to do?"

Blow it all up. Start over. Acknowledge, once and for all, that this way isn’t working. This way that leads to Grace and Aziz and far, far too many women and men nodding in recognition at their story, even as they recoil at its reception.

We can do better. Let’s get going.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3863694&forum_id=2#35183330)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 18th, 2018 12:23 PM
Author: Unhinged macaca lay

We had that world. In 1955. The boomer sexual revolution and feminism destroyed that world. Reap the whirlwind and such.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3863694&forum_id=2#35183355)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 18th, 2018 12:25 PM
Author: silver fanboi



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3863694&forum_id=2#35183365)



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Date: January 18th, 2018 12:25 PM
Author: Milky Marvelous Sex Offender Crackhouse

Got to give them credit for burning down the house and successfully blaming the fire department

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3863694&forum_id=2#35183367)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 18th, 2018 12:26 PM
Author: talented university partner



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3863694&forum_id=2#35183371)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 18th, 2018 12:26 PM
Author: saffron brethren potus



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3863694&forum_id=2#35183374)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 18th, 2018 12:26 PM
Author: silver fanboi



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3863694&forum_id=2#35183376)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 18th, 2018 12:28 PM
Author: Irate Church Digit Ratio



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3863694&forum_id=2#35183389)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 18th, 2018 12:36 PM
Author: wonderful bawdyhouse



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3863694&forum_id=2#35183426)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 18th, 2018 12:37 PM
Author: sapphire ceo



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3863694&forum_id=2#35183434)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 18th, 2018 12:56 PM
Author: arousing space yarmulke



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3863694&forum_id=2#35183569)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 18th, 2018 12:57 PM
Author: pearly lascivious market depressive



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3863694&forum_id=2#35183575)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 19th, 2018 12:24 AM
Author: spruce nibblets



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3863694&forum_id=2#35187298)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 19th, 2018 10:53 PM
Author: Idiotic amethyst forum



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3863694&forum_id=2#35193688)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 18th, 2018 12:24 PM
Author: Milky Marvelous Sex Offender Crackhouse

Pic of author pls

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3863694&forum_id=2#35183360)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 18th, 2018 12:25 PM
Author: talented university partner

completely insane to argue that girls are "strongly socialized" to give blow jobs to random C list celebrities they've met once.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3863694&forum_id=2#35183369)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 18th, 2018 12:30 PM
Author: Irate Church Digit Ratio

holy scripture of the religion of victimhood

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3863694&forum_id=2#35183394)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 18th, 2018 12:44 PM
Author: salmon slippery locale cuckoldry

"Author Peggy Orenstein is brilliant on this. Her 2016 book, “Girls & Sex: Navigating the Complicated New Landscape” (Harper), encourages parents to talk to daughters about acknowledging and prioritizing their own desire and pleasure so sex doesn’t take the shape of something boys and men do, and girls and women have done to them."

Except it is. The girl literally lies there and has her innermost core stretched and split open by the man's pulsing member, lies there while he literally pounds it into her until it gushes a gooey, sticky fluid, and then meekly runs to the bathroom to drain into the toilet. Just Lmao @ women and their lack of sexual agency.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3863694&forum_id=2#35183464)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 18th, 2018 12:53 PM
Author: erotic crawly theater stage



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3863694&forum_id=2#35183536)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 19th, 2018 2:07 AM
Author: Milky Marvelous Sex Offender Crackhouse



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3863694&forum_id=2#35187607)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 19th, 2018 10:44 PM
Author: spruce nibblets



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3863694&forum_id=2#35193634)