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Best Buy Using 3rd P Return Tracking Co, Banned For Returning 3 Cell Phone Cases

BUSINESS How Your Returns Are Used Against You at Best Buy,...
impertinent narrow-minded legend theater stage
  03/13/18
Date: September 19th, 2017 2:07 PM Author: Prole 18 & G...
fluffy maroon range friendly grandma
  03/13/18
...
fluffy maroon range friendly grandma
  03/16/18
I saw this happen to a guy at Best Buy trying to return some...
violet mentally impaired point philosopher-king
  03/13/18
flame? they can only ban you after the fact. they cant deny ...
impertinent narrow-minded legend theater stage
  03/13/18
Not flame at all. It was right around Christmas so maybe he ...
violet mentally impaired point philosopher-king
  03/13/18
jfc burn these fuckers down
French brethren plaza
  03/13/18
My grandmother got banned from there for returning a DVD pla...
Vigorous sooty quadroon school
  03/13/18
ur granny is a nigger
laughsome impressive police squad
  03/13/18
I meant to start a thread on this about how DBG was ruining ...
lascivious insanely creepy parlour sex offender
  03/13/18
actually beaners and niggers who actually steal and put rock...
impertinent narrow-minded legend theater stage
  03/13/18
Someone did a leak on this a few years ago when it was relat...
burgundy contagious sneaky criminal associate
  03/13/18
hehe you literally cant buy anything in this country w/o ...
impertinent narrow-minded legend theater stage
  03/13/18
Mark of the Beast, dude.
Alcoholic Incel
  03/21/18
You've had 5 Amazon accounts banned, faggot. No beaner or ni...
fluffy maroon range friendly grandma
  03/13/18
sup jeff?
impertinent narrow-minded legend theater stage
  03/13/18
you're trash
fluffy maroon range friendly grandma
  03/13/18
just another way that subhuman jews are ruining the country
fluffy maroon range friendly grandma
  03/13/18
it's GC's fault, not jews, you idiot pumo
impertinent narrow-minded legend theater stage
  03/13/18
whites don't abuse return policies, kikes do
fluffy maroon range friendly grandma
  03/13/18
is it "abuse" for some white woman to buy 10 dress...
impertinent narrow-minded legend theater stage
  03/13/18
Is that why you had 5 Amazon accounts suspended you fucking ...
fluffy maroon range friendly grandma
  03/13/18
If she wears them and fucks them up first, yes. That's the d...
lascivious insanely creepy parlour sex offender
  03/13/18
that's the point. GC is maf at non-abuse. they're MAF that h...
impertinent narrow-minded legend theater stage
  03/13/18
LOL you're hopeless
lascivious insanely creepy parlour sex offender
  03/13/18
no substantive response?
impertinent narrow-minded legend theater stage
  03/13/18
Why did Amazon ban so many of your accounts? They're extreme...
fluffy maroon range friendly grandma
  03/13/18
they're the ultimate GC tracker
impertinent narrow-minded legend theater stage
  03/13/18
Answer the question
fluffy maroon range friendly grandma
  03/13/18
oh no, now you can't run your refund scams. poor guy
Sienna fantasy-prone native puppy
  03/13/18
Thanks Jews
fluffy maroon range friendly grandma
  03/13/18
to be fair, a store isnt' required to let you return stuff.
Hideous internal respiration
  03/13/18
yes, they are if it's within the return policy. so, they jus...
impertinent narrow-minded legend theater stage
  03/13/18
(subhuman scum)
fluffy maroon range friendly grandma
  03/13/18
so there you have it.
Hideous internal respiration
  03/13/18
...
fluffy maroon range friendly grandma
  03/16/18
sorry DBG, they know.
Grizzly jet-lagged state roast beef
  03/13/18
I don't shop at BB 'cos they're overpriced, and also you hav...
diverse degenerate cuckoldry
  03/13/18
LOL@ Best Buy's "touted" return policy - fourteen ...
poppy meetinghouse mediation
  03/13/18
In most places in the world, there are no returns even with ...
Carmine thriller alpha nowag
  03/13/18
American corporations are sooo benevolent!
poppy meetinghouse mediation
  03/13/18
in third world shitholes, the town would stone a fraudulent ...
impertinent narrow-minded legend theater stage
  03/13/18
That antisemitic!
Carmine thriller alpha nowag
  03/13/18
...
impertinent narrow-minded legend theater stage
  03/13/18
...
Racy Harsh Mother
  03/16/18
...
laughsome impressive police squad
  03/21/18
...
Amber public bath electric furnace
  03/21/18
In most places in the world niggers have aids
multi-colored chapel
  03/13/18


Poast new message in this thread



Reply Favorite

Date: March 13th, 2018 1:32 PM
Author: impertinent narrow-minded legend theater stage

BUSINESS

How Your Returns Are Used Against You at Best Buy, Other Retailers

Best Buy is among retailers that pay a third-party service to help track customers’ shopping behavior and limit the number of items they can bring back

At Best Buy, returning too many items within a short time can hurt a person’s score, as can returning high-theft items such as digital cameras.

At Best Buy, returning too many items within a short time can hurt a person’s score, as can returning high-theft items such as digital cameras. PHOTO: CRAIG MATTHEWS/THE PRESS OF ATLANTIC CITY/ASSOCIATED PRESS

By Khadeeja Safdar

March 13, 2018 5:30 a.m. ET

304 COMMENTS

Every time shoppers return purchases to Best Buy Co. BBY +1.15% , they are tracked by a company that has the power to override the store’s touted policy and refuse to refund their money.

That is because the electronics giant is one of several chains that have hired a service called Retail Equation to score customers’ shopping behavior and impose limits on the amount of merchandise they can return.

Jake Zakhar recently returned three cellphone cases at a Best Buy store in Mission Viejo, Calif., and a salesperson told him he would be banned from making returns and exchanges for a year. The 41-year-old real-estate agent had bought cases in extra colors as gifts for his sons and assumed he could bring back the unused ones within the 15 days stated in the return policy as long as he had a receipt.

View image on Twitter

View image on Twitter

Jake Zakhar

@jakez_oc

Is this really excessive @BestBuy ? 3 total exchanges account for $87.43. I suppose losing me who just spent 5k on appliances over 3 cell phone cases is worth it. Banned from returns for a year. You lost a high dollar purchaser permanently over your lame system. #tresucks

3:09 PM - Jan 24, 2018

139

148 people are talking about this

Twitter Ads info and privacy

The salesperson told him to contact Retail Equation, based in Irvine, Calif., to request his “return activity report,” a history of his return transactions. The report showed only three items—the cellphone cases—totaling $87.43. He asked the firm to lift the ban, but it declined. When he appealed to Best Buy and tweeted his report, the company referred him back to Retail Equation.

“I’m being made to feel like I committed a crime,” said Mr. Zakhar. “When you say habitual returner, I’m thinking 27 videogames and 14 TVs.”

Stores have long used generous return guidelines to lure more customers, but such policies also invite abuse. Retailers estimate 11% of their sales are returned, and of those, 11% are likely fraudulent returns, according to a 2017 survey of 63 retailers by the National Retail Federation. Return fraud or abuse occurs when customers exploit the return process, such as requesting a refund for items they have used, stolen or bought somewhere else.

Amazon.com Inc. and other online players that have made it easy to return items have changed consumer expectations, adding pressure on brick-and-mortar chains. L.L. Bean Inc., which once allowed customers to make returns even years after they purchased items, recently clamped down, citing abuse.

Points of No Return

The Retail Equation develops 'risk scores' based on shoppers' behavior. The actions that hurt a customer's score and thresholds for denying a return vary by retailer.

Examples of

actions that

can hurt

your score:

Returning

a large

percentage

of your total

purchases

Returning

a high

dollar

amount

Returning

an item

without

a receipt

Returning

an item after

a certain

period

Returning

items that

tend to get

stolen at

the retailer

Returning

too many

items in a

short period

Returning

an item just

when a

store closes

Source: The Retail Equation

Some retailers monitor return fraud in-house, but Best Buy and others pay Retail Equation to track and score each customer’s return behavior for both in-store and online purchases. The service also works with Home Depot Inc., J.C. Penney Co. , Sephora and Victoria’s Secret. Some retailers use the system only to assess returns made without a receipt.

Best Buy uses Retail Equation to assess all returns, even those made with a receipt. Dozens of shoppers have complained on Twitter, Facebook, Yelp and other online forums that they were prevented from making returns despite following the store’s policy.

Retail Equation said its services are used in 34,000 stores, but declined to provide a full list of its clients. The Wall Street Journal learned of the relationship between some retailers and the firm by reviewing return activity reports from customers.

“We are hired by the retailers to review the returns, look for suspicious situations and issue approvals, warnings or denials,” said Tom Rittman, a marketing vice president at Appriss Inc., a Louisville, Ky., data analytics firm that acquired Retail Equation in 2015.

The company said its system is designed to identify 1% of shoppers whose behaviors mimic return fraud or abuse. Its statisticians and programmers have built a customized algorithm for each retailer that scores customers based on their shopping behavior and then flags people who exceed a certain score. The company said it doesn’t share a person’s data from one retailer with another.

Related Video

The retail industry is undergoing another major shift -- to e-commerce. How did we get here? Photo: Associated Press

“You could do things that are inside the posted rules, but if you are violating the intent of the rules, like every item you’re purchasing you’re using and then returning, then at a certain point in time you become not a profitable customer for that retailer,” said Mr. Rittman.

At Best Buy, returning too many items within a short time can hurt a person’s score, as can returning high-theft items such as digital cameras. After the Journal contacted Best Buy, the company said it created a dedicated hotline (1-866-764-6979) to help customers who think they were wrongfully banned from making returns.

“On very rare occasions—less than one tenth of one percent of returns—we stop what we believe is a fraudulent return,” said Jeff Haydock, a spokesman for Best Buy. “Fraud is a real problem in retail, but if our systems aren’t as good as they can be, we apologize to anyone inappropriately affected.”

View image on Twitter

View image on Twitter

Robb Hinrichs

@RobbHinrichs

@BestBuySupport did my holiday and home remodel shopping at B.B. and PacSales. Came in to spend 4K more but got blocked on a $300 return??

8:40 PM - Jan 13, 2018

9

See Robb Hinrichs's other Tweets

Twitter Ads info and privacy

Eric Andersen

@eaw3c1

@BestBuy Your use of the Retail Equation is unfair. Your employee made me feel like I was thief and criminal. I am done, never again.

6:39 PM - Oct 2, 2012

11

See Eric Andersen's other Tweets

Twitter Ads info and privacy

Best Buy CEO Hubert Joly said the company is “looking very seriously at the process and partner around this.”

When a consumer makes a return, details about his or her identity and shopping visit are transmitted to Retail Equation, which then generates a “risk score.” If the score exceeds the threshold specific to the retailer, a salesperson informs the consumer that future returns will be denied and then directs them to Retail Equation to request a return activity report or file a dispute.

It isn’t easy for shoppers to learn their standing before receiving a warning. Retailers typically don’t publicize their relationship with Retail Equation. And even if a customer tracks down his or her return report, it doesn’t include purchase history or other information used to generate a score. The report also doesn’t disclose the actual score or the thresholds for getting barred.

Dave Payne, a 38-year-old public relations professional, said he learned of the system for the first time when he received a warning at a Best Buy in Orlando, Fla. He was returning a digital scale and a router extender, with a receipt for both items.

He said neither Best Buy nor Retail Equation provided a clear explanation for what he did wrong: “Best Buy advertises a 15-day return policy, but they are not advertising that at some point when you’ve crossed an arbitrary line, that policy no longer applies.”

The ban on his account was lifted after he complained to the company’s public-relations department, but he remains upset that his information is being shared with a third party. “It creeps me out.”

Write to Khadeeja Safdar at khadeeja.safdar@wsj.com

https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-your-returns-are-used-against-you-at-best-buy-other-retailers-1520933400

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917395&forum_id=2#35595504)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 13th, 2018 8:04 PM
Author: fluffy maroon range friendly grandma

Date: September 19th, 2017 2:07 PM

Author: Prole 18 & GTFO Goy (*)

not maf. that's the game. they've cancelled like 5 of my accounts. i'm on my 6th.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3736485&forum_id=2#34243647)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917395&forum_id=2#35598818)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 16th, 2018 4:41 PM
Author: fluffy maroon range friendly grandma



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917395&forum_id=2#35620910)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 13th, 2018 1:36 PM
Author: violet mentally impaired point philosopher-king

I saw this happen to a guy at Best Buy trying to return something at Christmas time and he was irate. Had no idea this existed until I saw it in action.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917395&forum_id=2#35595539)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 13th, 2018 1:47 PM
Author: impertinent narrow-minded legend theater stage

flame? they can only ban you after the fact. they cant deny a return for something you bought before you were banned.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917395&forum_id=2#35595636)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 13th, 2018 1:53 PM
Author: violet mentally impaired point philosopher-king

Not flame at all. It was right around Christmas so maybe he had returned something else. He was a well dressed white guy and didn't seem at all like he was trying to get away with something. I had no idea this even existed but I asked because I was returning a defective tv and they said they would make a file on me too.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917395&forum_id=2#35595684)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 13th, 2018 1:40 PM
Author: French brethren plaza

jfc burn these fuckers down

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917395&forum_id=2#35595568)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 13th, 2018 1:41 PM
Author: Vigorous sooty quadroon school

My grandmother got banned from there for returning a DVD player.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917395&forum_id=2#35595583)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 13th, 2018 2:43 PM
Author: laughsome impressive police squad

ur granny is a nigger

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917395&forum_id=2#35596179)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 13th, 2018 1:43 PM
Author: lascivious insanely creepy parlour sex offender

I meant to start a thread on this about how DBG was ruining it for all of us. This is infuriating. Why hasn't some enterprising state AG tried to stop this, or ban the transfer of this information to the collator?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917395&forum_id=2#35595599)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 13th, 2018 1:46 PM
Author: impertinent narrow-minded legend theater stage

actually beaners and niggers who actually steal and put rocks in the box of a TV are ruining it.

i dont believe for a bit that these companies arent sharing info with other. some AG needs to crack down

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917395&forum_id=2#35595629)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 13th, 2018 1:49 PM
Author: burgundy contagious sneaky criminal associate

Someone did a leak on this a few years ago when it was relatively unknown and not only are they sharing this info, they're selling your return habits literally linked to your driver's license

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917395&forum_id=2#35595650)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 13th, 2018 1:51 PM
Author: impertinent narrow-minded legend theater stage

hehe

you literally cant buy anything in this country w/o being spied on

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917395&forum_id=2#35595658)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 21st, 2018 5:56 PM
Author: Alcoholic Incel

Mark of the Beast, dude.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917395&forum_id=2#35655344)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 13th, 2018 2:03 PM
Author: fluffy maroon range friendly grandma

You've had 5 Amazon accounts banned, faggot. No beaner or nig is worse than you.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917395&forum_id=2#35595782)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 13th, 2018 2:04 PM
Author: impertinent narrow-minded legend theater stage

sup jeff?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917395&forum_id=2#35595791)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 13th, 2018 2:05 PM
Author: fluffy maroon range friendly grandma

you're trash

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917395&forum_id=2#35595797)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 13th, 2018 2:04 PM
Author: fluffy maroon range friendly grandma

just another way that subhuman jews are ruining the country

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917395&forum_id=2#35595792)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 13th, 2018 2:08 PM
Author: impertinent narrow-minded legend theater stage

it's GC's fault, not jews, you idiot pumo

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917395&forum_id=2#35595823)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 13th, 2018 5:16 PM
Author: fluffy maroon range friendly grandma

whites don't abuse return policies, kikes do

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917395&forum_id=2#35597403)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 13th, 2018 5:17 PM
Author: impertinent narrow-minded legend theater stage

is it "abuse" for some white woman to buy 10 dresses or pairs of shoes at nordstrom.com and keep 1 of them? no, that's not abuse, you GC cuck.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917395&forum_id=2#35597408)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 13th, 2018 5:18 PM
Author: fluffy maroon range friendly grandma

Is that why you had 5 Amazon accounts suspended you fucking kike

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917395&forum_id=2#35597417)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 13th, 2018 5:22 PM
Author: lascivious insanely creepy parlour sex offender

If she wears them and fucks them up first, yes. That's the dgb move. If they are in new condition, no.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917395&forum_id=2#35597443)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 13th, 2018 5:25 PM
Author: impertinent narrow-minded legend theater stage

that's the point. GC is maf at non-abuse. they're MAF that honest returns are cutting into their profit$.

retailers are MAF bc 30-40% of clothing gets returned because that's the nature of online shopping and people not getting to try stuff on. they closed stores and want their cake and to eat it too.

this is just GC greed. literally has nothing to do with abuse. antisemites ITT are too dense to see it.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917395&forum_id=2#35597467)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 13th, 2018 5:25 PM
Author: lascivious insanely creepy parlour sex offender

LOL you're hopeless

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917395&forum_id=2#35597473)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 13th, 2018 5:28 PM
Author: impertinent narrow-minded legend theater stage

no substantive response?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917395&forum_id=2#35597498)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 13th, 2018 5:34 PM
Author: fluffy maroon range friendly grandma

Why did Amazon ban so many of your accounts? They're extremely lenient with their returns

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917395&forum_id=2#35597549)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 13th, 2018 5:36 PM
Author: impertinent narrow-minded legend theater stage

they're the ultimate GC tracker

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917395&forum_id=2#35597555)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 13th, 2018 5:41 PM
Author: fluffy maroon range friendly grandma

Answer the question

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917395&forum_id=2#35597599)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 13th, 2018 1:53 PM
Author: Sienna fantasy-prone native puppy

oh no, now you can't run your refund scams. poor guy

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917395&forum_id=2#35595688)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 13th, 2018 2:02 PM
Author: fluffy maroon range friendly grandma

Thanks Jews

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917395&forum_id=2#35595765)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 13th, 2018 5:31 PM
Author: Hideous internal respiration

to be fair, a store isnt' required to let you return stuff.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917395&forum_id=2#35597527)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 13th, 2018 5:37 PM
Author: impertinent narrow-minded legend theater stage

yes, they are if it's within the return policy. so, they just ban people from even shopping there.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917395&forum_id=2#35597568)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 13th, 2018 5:42 PM
Author: fluffy maroon range friendly grandma

(subhuman scum)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917395&forum_id=2#35597606)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 13th, 2018 5:43 PM
Author: Hideous internal respiration

so there you have it.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917395&forum_id=2#35597611)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 16th, 2018 6:02 PM
Author: fluffy maroon range friendly grandma



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917395&forum_id=2#35621484)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 13th, 2018 5:46 PM
Author: Grizzly jet-lagged state roast beef

sorry DBG, they know.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917395&forum_id=2#35597635)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 13th, 2018 6:33 PM
Author: diverse degenerate cuckoldry

I don't shop at BB 'cos they're overpriced, and also you have to provide your DL to return something.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917395&forum_id=2#35598023)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 13th, 2018 6:44 PM
Author: poppy meetinghouse mediation

LOL@ Best Buy's "touted" return policy - fourteen days with closed box for store credit.

And what level of error rate is worth it if they only stop .1% of returns? This is not about fraud. BEST case they are trying to push people who are on the fence to hold onto their purchases without affecting revenues too much. More likely they noticed their in the 67th percentile for returns among big box retailers and some hardass hedge fund is demanding they get below the 50th percentile. Then they'll deal with the completely unforeseen customer dissatisfaction in Q3 2019.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917395&forum_id=2#35598106)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 13th, 2018 6:51 PM
Author: Carmine thriller alpha nowag

In most places in the world, there are no returns even with a receipt and even if yo just bought it 5 seconds ago.

Being able to return whatever you want to costco is 180.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917395&forum_id=2#35598141)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 13th, 2018 6:56 PM
Author: poppy meetinghouse mediation

American corporations are sooo benevolent!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917395&forum_id=2#35598190)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 13th, 2018 6:59 PM
Author: impertinent narrow-minded legend theater stage

in third world shitholes, the town would stone a fraudulent retailer to death. we should be able to stone GC to death for selling chink garbage

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917395&forum_id=2#35598208)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 13th, 2018 7:06 PM
Author: Carmine thriller alpha nowag

That antisemitic!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917395&forum_id=2#35598272)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 13th, 2018 7:10 PM
Author: impertinent narrow-minded legend theater stage



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917395&forum_id=2#35598312)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 16th, 2018 4:42 PM
Author: Racy Harsh Mother



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917395&forum_id=2#35620918)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 21st, 2018 6:09 PM
Author: laughsome impressive police squad



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917395&forum_id=2#35655457)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 21st, 2018 6:20 PM
Author: Amber public bath electric furnace



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917395&forum_id=2#35655544)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 13th, 2018 7:06 PM
Author: multi-colored chapel

In most places in the world niggers have aids

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3917395&forum_id=2#35598270)