Tech careers are a huge mistake for most people
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Date: March 16th, 2018 12:23 PM Author: Fragrant Stain
Most of the people that are flocking to “coding” as a career are going to end up regretting it. It takes a very specific personality to actually enjoy programming as a career and even those people risk finding their skills obsolete in 10-15 years. There is real age discrimination in tech and it is an unstable industry heading towards another crash. Programmers have nowhere near the career stability of an engineer with a PE or a PA/doctor to take just two examples.
There is a lot of demand for programming now, but just wait until technology for software creation without code disrupts the entire industry, crowding out programming as a viable profession. So if you love programming and were a 10 year old hacker – by all means go work for Google or a top startup and kill it. But if you are a normal person who is just looking to make money, then you need to really step back and think about your options. Not everyone wants to stare at computer and smell curry farts all day.
The ”best” career is really dependent on the personality and cognitive profile of the individual. People act like there are only a handful of careers. I can imagine many people being a lot happier making $100K+ and have better job stability in a number of fields outside of tech: firefighter/police officer, school principal, mid-level medical practitioner, commercial real estate, in-house or Big Fed attorney, real engineer(mechanical/electrical), government contractor etc.
The boart is consistently flocking to the next hot thing. But guys who got an EE degree and then went into patent law or went into O&G because that was what seemed most lucrative probably didn’t anticipate the fairly rapid changes that turned these into pretty shitty careers.
https://techcrunch.com/2015/10/23/coding-academies-are-nonsense/
In 15 years, those hard-won skills will be obsolete — if they ever stuck in the first place. Despite their promises, coding academies don’t manufacture coders. They cast wide nets to discover new talent that has not yet been exposed to code. Most people don’t find coding enthralling or interesting enough to continue to pursue it as a career. Given the changing nature of software, they probably shouldn’t.
The best advice for people wanting to learn code? Try before you buy, and by that, I mean figure it out for free. Otherwise, you might find yourself sideways on the career ladder and tens of thousands of dollars poorer. For a dying profession, that’s just not worth it.
Perishable And Full Of Promises
I see coding shrinking as a widespread profession. Not because software is going away, but because the way we build software will fundamentally change. Technology for software creation without code is already edging toward mainstream use. Visual content creation tools such as Scratch, DWNLD and Telerik will continue to improve until all functionality required to build apps is available to consumers — without having to write a line of code.
Most people don’t find coding enthralling or interesting enough to continue to pursue it as a career. Given the changing nature of software, they probably shouldn’t.
Who needs to code when you can use visual building blocks or even plain English to describe intent? Advances in natural-language processing and conceptual modeling will remove the need for traditional coding from app development. Software development tools will soon understand what you mean versus what you say. Even small advances in disambiguating intent will pay huge dividends. The seeds are already planted, from the OpenCog project to NLTK natural-language processing to MIT’s proof that you can order around a computer in your human language instead of code.
Academies had better gather those revenues while they can, because ultimately they are the product of short-term thinking. Coding skills will continue to be in high demand until technology for software creation without code disrupts the entire party, crowding out programming as a viable profession.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3920465&forum_id=2#35619361)
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Date: March 16th, 2018 12:26 PM Author: cobalt supple location
>> The ”best” career is really dependent on the personality and cognitive profile of the individual. People act like there are only a handful of careers. I can imagine many people being a lot happier making $100K+ and have better job stability in a number of fields outside of tech: firefighter/police officer, school principal, mid-level medical practitioner, commercial real estate, in-house or Big Fed attorney, real engineer(mechanical/electrical), government contractor etc. <<
Truth
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3920465&forum_id=2#35619380) |
Date: March 16th, 2018 12:29 PM Author: mauve adulterous whorehouse
I just wrote about the supposed tech age discrimination
http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3919309&mc=20&forum_id=2#35618899
I actually agree with you, people in these coding “boot camps” are largely shit and will washout of the industry during the next crash. But if you’re actually skilled in real development or at least have a BSCS, there’s always going to be work. We are very far away from unskilled “visual coding” or w/e you were talking about at the end. I kind of skimmed it. People said that the C compiler would put programmers out of work and look what it actually did.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3920465&forum_id=2#35619394) |
Date: March 16th, 2018 12:38 PM Author: embarrassed to the bone arrogant new version
This is 100% complete flame:
Who needs to code when you can use visual building blocks or even plain English to describe intent? Advances in natural-language processing and conceptual modeling will remove the need for traditional coding from app development. Software development tools will soon understand what you mean versus what you say. Even small advances in disambiguating intent will pay huge dividends. The seeds are already planted, from the OpenCog project to NLTK natural-language processing to MIT’s proof that you can order around a computer in your human language instead of code.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3920465&forum_id=2#35619448) |
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Date: March 16th, 2018 12:51 PM Author: Fragrant Stain
That isn't my prediction - I took it from the Tech Crunch article written by an engineer. It could be way off, but I bet a lot of people that are saying LJL at MY field being automated are going to turn out being wrong. In the late 90’s people were saying EVERYONE has to learn HTML – it is the language of the future and the path to a lucrative career. Now you can just go to SquareSpace and bang out a website with no skill and being a low-level web developer pays like shit.
People are way to hung up on that part of my poast – I admit I have no clue how far off we are from this – but no one else does either. Predicting the path and rate of technological change is impossible. But I am confident all these code academy retards are going to largely end up fucked and wishing they had just done PA school or something.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3920465&forum_id=2#35619499)
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Date: March 16th, 2018 12:46 PM Author: Walnut wagecucks nibblets
Enterprise tech sales
Bro down, don't do math, and cash in millions
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3920465&forum_id=2#35619486) |
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Date: March 16th, 2018 2:57 PM Author: Walnut wagecucks nibblets
A good enterprise salesperson at Oracle or Salesforce or SAP etc does just fine
Oracle's top earners are all sales people
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3920465&forum_id=2#35620278) |
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Date: March 16th, 2018 3:16 PM Author: Tan parlor
you're missing my point
you don't magically get a million dollar salary by becoming a tech salesman. not for oracle, not for anyone. you have to gun for that shit. have to have good amount of industry experience first too. orcale's top earners probably work pretty fucking hard and put in years making peanuts traveling to trade shows in shitsburg iowa to get there, and even then there's no guarantee that you're doing well after you do your time at the bottom of the chain. someone who's smart enough to code can just coast easy on his knowledge and do pretty well.
for the average guy (who's smart enough to code decently) who isn't necessarily destined to become oracle's head of sales coding is a pretty nice option with much less downside.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3920465&forum_id=2#35620380) |
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Date: March 16th, 2018 3:55 PM Author: Buck-toothed point gaming laptop
Those people won't be getting jobs anyway - who the fuck cares.
Just because they teach basic programming in high school or whatever doesn't mean they will be remotely capable and doesn't mean they will do it in college. Just look at the USA math classes - USA is literally borderline retarded at math compared to other countries and we've been teaching it forever.
It's not bad to teach something new, but it doesn't mean that these people will be gunning for programming jobs or qualified.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3920465&forum_id=2#35620640) |
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Date: March 16th, 2018 4:05 PM Author: Tan parlor
most of these people flame out and just end up doing something else anyways. they're just exploring opportunities.
but even then just because someone is "better-suited" for working landscaping or something doesn't mean that he's "better off" in it
consider an aspiring literary agent or something. or journalist. you start at the bottom making worse than a teacher's salary. some of them get recognized over time and progress. those that don't continue to make garbage for the rest of their lives. then they see this coding field where people can make an ok salary with just a boot camp background if they actually make the effort to learn it well enough. i really don't have a problem with this person giving the boot camp a shot for a chance at a career with decent pay and much less downside risk.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3920465&forum_id=2#35620693) |
Date: March 16th, 2018 1:27 PM Author: narrow-minded mother
"coding" is just another industry that is being diluted and dragged down by the eternal middling-IQ striver normie
in 10-15 years we're going to be getting mis-diagnoses from incompetent 115 IQ doctors, driving over bridges designed by incompetent 115 IQ engineers, trying to navigate computer programs written by 115 IQ coders.
you no longer have to be smart to do any of these vital white-collar professions. you just have to be a striver who shells out $ or takes out loans for credentials, or an affirmative action drone who gets everything handed to them
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3920465&forum_id=2#35619694)
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Date: March 16th, 2018 2:52 PM Author: Tan parlor
this isn't entirely wrong but the alternative for most of these people isn't too great anyways
they have to "keep up" but so does everyone in the field. wages might be compressed by new grads but again the alternative isn't great and there are good opportunities for easy side gigs in that field.
the alternative for someone like this is basically to start at a low-paying general corporate job and hope that he spends enough time there that they value his experience and promote him over time. but that doesn't always happen. and if it doesn't then you're just another person with no unique skillset to monetize. coding at least gives you that as long as you keep reasonably current.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3920465&forum_id=2#35620256) |
Date: March 16th, 2018 2:56 PM Author: laughsome rigor range
Ljl:
“The boart is consistently flocking to the next hot thing. But guys who got an EE degree and then went into patent law or went into O&G because that was what seemed most lucrative probably didn’t anticipate the fairly rapid changes that turned these into pretty shitty careers.”
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3920465&forum_id=2#35620274)
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Date: March 16th, 2018 3:15 PM Author: Buck-toothed point gaming laptop
Tech was the "next hot thing" and has been the "next hot thing" for like 20-30+ years.
My dad went to MIT and did an EE degree and ended up making equivalent of like 700K-800K in today's money straight out of MIT as a software programmer (which he learned on his own after doing hardware).
Programmers made even more than they do now back in the day.
My friends from college (granted I went to a heavy STEM school) all made bank straight out of college doing programming and many are millionaires from stock options in their early 30s.
I don't know why OP hates tech, but clearly he doesn't even know any real programmers or know anything about the SV tech market. Tech is obviously the CR profession for smart people. Nobody is talking about training dumbs to do programming.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3920465&forum_id=2#35620367) |
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Date: March 16th, 2018 3:25 PM Author: Buck-toothed point gaming laptop
My dad was making 700K in today's money in his 30s as a programmer (not when he was 22). He was doing hardware for awhile and then switched to programming after learning languages on his own. OP is right in that programmers have to constantly keep up with languages and learn on their own. He never had to go back to school though.
I said programmers made more money back then than they do now. Top tier programmers easily made 700-800k in today's money in SF Bay Area back then. With stock options, he was probably making close to 1MM in today's money. He also had recruiters constantly recruit him and you could get a salary bump.
I went to college more recently at a heavy tech school - a lot of my friends who did EECS are all millionaires now from stock options from working for places like Google, etc.
Stock options at tech companies are insanely lucrative.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3920465&forum_id=2#35620443) |
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Date: March 16th, 2018 3:28 PM Author: Buck-toothed point gaming laptop
Also I am using "today's dollars" not "back then" dollars.
His one year salary was more than or at the cost of his SF house back then. Programming afforded a very 180 lifestyle.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3920465&forum_id=2#35620464) |
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Date: March 16th, 2018 3:37 PM Author: Buck-toothed point gaming laptop
somewhere in the 200Ks (then dollars) in 1980s
he also got stock options worth around 200Ks (then dollars) from various big tech companies he worked for
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3920465&forum_id=2#35620526)
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Date: March 16th, 2018 3:32 PM Author: Fragrant Stain
My whole point was they are pushing dumbs into programming and this would be a mistake for most people. Clinton and Obama had initiatives or proposed initiatives that promoted just that.
President Obama just unveiled his “Computer Science for All Initiative.” Following up on the State of the Union Address, in which he announced his intention to offer “every student the hands-on computer science and math classes that make them job-ready on day one,” the initiative includes $4billion in funding for states and $100Million directly for districts to increase hands-on K-12 computer science instruction.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3920465&forum_id=2#35620499)
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Date: March 16th, 2018 3:18 PM Author: Fragrant Stain
Look at these prescient poasters talking about the sweet treats of IP lit
http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=2222863&forum_id=2&PHPSESSID=6246908c4c5354c5dd26fe81d810fd40#22951848
Patent lit - why is it hot and will it slow down?
Date: April 7th, 2013 1:38 PM
Author: Unreasonably Sober
IP is one of the last bastions for the sweet treat of (legal) monopoly profits. can't imagine why giant companies care about this
Author: ;;;;;;...;;;;;..;;
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
No
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3920465&forum_id=2#35620392) |
Date: March 16th, 2018 3:11 PM Author: cocky confused tattoo
Only a non-programmer or a moron thinks that these tools for coding without code will somehow make a horde of unwashed masses suddenly able to replace the devs as they exist today.
It doesn't matter whether you're coding or speaking English and getting it translated to code. The hard part is figuring out the problem and how to solve it. If you can explain it in English you're 99% of the way there. Put another way, someone making software by speaking English will BE a coder and just as few humans will be capable of this as now.
Maybe it will smooth things out and speed things up like a good IDE but ljl if you think this will be revolutionary not evolutionary.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3920465&forum_id=2#35620346) |
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Date: March 16th, 2018 3:19 PM Author: Buck-toothed point gaming laptop
Tech is still the most insulated from automation (more so than law, medicine, accounting). Plus you don't have to go to grad school for tech (which is a complete joke and money pit these days).
I will push my kids to go into tech - it's the best route for any reasonably intelligent person.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3920465&forum_id=2#35620394)
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Date: March 16th, 2018 3:43 PM Author: Fragrant Stain
We are going to need a lot fewer programmers in say 15-20 years and mediocre programmers will get killed.This is not my prediction, I am basing it off what I have read from academics. As I stated in my OP, the top-end of programmers will still be really well compensated and have amazing jobs.
http://www.businessinsider.com/computer-scientists-not-safe-from-artificial-intelligence-unemployment-robots2015-9
"I can envision systems that become better and better at writing software," Bart Selman, a computer scientist at Cornell University, said. "A person complemented with an intelligent system can write maybe ten times as much code, maybe a hundred times as much code. The problem then becomes you need a hundred times fewer human programmers."
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3920465&forum_id=2#35620569) |
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Date: March 16th, 2018 3:46 PM Author: Buck-toothed point gaming laptop
It's all relative. A big portion of MDs will probably be replaced by AI + nurses in that time period. The main law jobs left will be shitlaw solo attorneys (which not everyone can succeed at). What are the options? Universal welfare?
The world is obviously going to shit thanks to AI and human overpopulation.
Maybe we should just enforce tubal ligation en masse globally.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3920465&forum_id=2#35620583) |
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Date: March 16th, 2018 4:08 PM Author: Fragrant Stain
It looks like the first time the term data scientist was used was in 2008 - so I don't think it was too hot back then. It was just starting to emerge.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_science
] DJ Patil claims to have coined this term in 2008 with Jeff Hammerbacher to define their jobs at LinkedIn and Facebook, respectively. He asserts that a data scientist is "a new breed", and that a "shortage of data scientists is becoming a serious constraint in some sectors", but describes a much more business oriented role.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3920465&forum_id=2#35620708) |
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