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"Young Women Are Convinced Motherhood Is Going To Suck And They're Right"
Poast new message in this thread
Date: April 2nd, 2018 9:30 AM Author: snowy parlor crotch https://www.bustle.com/p/young-women-are-convinced-motherhood-is-going-to-suck-theyre-right-8522780
Lol they're not even hiding it anymore. |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 12:53 PM Author: Beta den jew Jews, please explain (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35744200) |
Date: April 2nd, 2018 9:36 AM Author: navy judgmental idea he suggested "Emily, 27, is a clinical therapist in a long-term relationship. Both she and her partner want to have children, but even though she is gainfully employed with two master’s degrees from an Ivy League institution, she is still forced to supplement her income with a part-time babysitting job."
lol MUH MASTERSES! |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 9:41 AM Author: Hairless trump supporter hairy legs (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35742594) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:01 AM Author: snowy parlor crotch It hits every trope. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35742727) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:06 AM Author: Purple laser beams haunted graveyard (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35742754) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:28 AM Author: Buff Travel Guidebook Property (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35742903) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:33 AM Author: mustard milk double fault (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35742940) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:43 AM Author: ultramarine sound barrier parlour (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35743019) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:53 AM Author: Cyan shrine degenerate where is "such as cornell" tp when you need him (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35743102) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 12:59 PM Author: excitant sinister institution trust fund (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35744246) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 1:12 PM Author: Diverse toaster nursing home lmfao (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35744329) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 4:07 PM Author: nofapping concupiscible mexican Devastating (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35745802) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 6:42 PM Author: disrespectful adventurous patrolman trailer park (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35747106) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 7:05 PM Author: histrionic frozen goyim (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35747248) |
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Date: April 3rd, 2018 10:47 AM Author: Mildly autistic stock car (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35751028) |
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Date: April 3rd, 2018 11:15 AM Author: passionate house marketing idea this can't be real (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35751254) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 9:38 AM Author: navy judgmental idea he suggested "Between college, internships, and the 24/7 work week, we’ve spent so many years building ourselves up. Why would we want a toddler to come along and knock it all down?"
And they wonder why we call them the "me" generation |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 9:44 AM Author: unhinged nighttime electric furnace newt "Lol there's no way in hell I'm giving up the $31,000/yr job i worked so hard for just to have KIDS. Maybe, MAYBE id walk away from it to be a travel blogger but even then only for a year or two, five at MOST." (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35742616) |
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Date: April 3rd, 2018 7:26 AM Author: Mahogany national (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35750240) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 9:46 AM Author: Boyish market yeah this 24/7 work week sounds great, who would want a toddler to ruin that opportunity (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35742632) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 9:58 AM Author: Brass odious turdskin (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35742700) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:10 AM Author: Boyish market i'm being sarcastic btw (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35742775) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:16 AM Author: Brass odious turdskin no shhhhit (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35742808) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 1:13 PM Author: Diverse toaster nursing home (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35744338) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:13 AM Author: big saffron mood it's not even just about these young women
it's that they were raised to prioritize academic/professional achievement
by parents who invested so much in them that to ask their children, who likely were just walking symbols of whatever resources they could provide, to just step back and be parents - would be difficult after all the effort/money
you could argue that traditional households could help to teach young women that there's value in being a SAHM, but from my experience with friends whose moms stayed home and even from reading this board, a lot kids don't necessarily respect their mothers, if their mothers couldn't stay at home without being depressed or underproductive, etc.etc.
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:21 AM Author: Maize tattoo >> it's that they were raised to prioritize academic/professional achievement
by parents who invested so much in them that to ask their children, who likely were just walking symbols of whatever resources they could provide, to just step back and be parents - would be difficult after all the effort/money <<
heaven forbid these women use those skills and achievements to help raise the next generation of good citizens... |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:27 AM Author: big saffron mood if most women still married straight out of college, it'd be an easier sell (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35742893) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:32 AM Author: Maize tattoo they should. they should have kids first and then focus on their careers. it makes so much more sense from just about every angle. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35742937) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:45 AM Author: big saffron mood please describe a world where men can care for these women and their children (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35743036) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:46 AM Author: Maize tattoo are you asking from a financial standpoint or the standpoint that men won't want to marry younger girls who want to raise kids? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35743044) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:50 AM Author: big saffron mood I just don't know how it works for those 22 year old women who aren't catchable enough for 30+ year old men with professional success and money in the bank -- who also happen to be family-oriented (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35743071) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 11:08 AM Author: Sooty Kitty Cat virtually the only way a 22 year old woman would not be "catchable" in the eyes of a 30+ year old man is if she's grossly overweight
So yeah there are a lot of these |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 2:34 PM Author: French area police squad lol, basically every 22-year old girl is "catchable" for 30+ men unless she is obese or completely insane (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35745063) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 12:26 PM Author: nubile hospital The me generation is the boomers. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35743947) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 2:02 PM Author: navy judgmental idea he suggested Millennials are like boomers raised by GC (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35744827) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 1:00 PM Author: excitant sinister institution trust fund my toddler is gaslighting me!!! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35744250) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 3:18 PM Author: big saffron mood lol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35745414) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 3:34 PM Author: Diverse toaster nursing home (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35745529) |
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Date: April 3rd, 2018 2:44 AM Author: Lavender becky principal's office (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35749918) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 9:47 AM Author: Boyish market chick in the photo is incredibly hot (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35742641) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 9:57 AM Author: Sable school Ty for pointing that out, and I concur. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35742698) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:19 AM Author: buck-toothed self-absorbed jewess sanctuary concur (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35742824) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:24 AM Author: Frisky stain A little too Jewwy in that 2nd pic but she's 7.5 age/kid adjusted. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35742860) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:39 AM Author: French area police squad fertile young women breastfeeding/caring for babies always makes me aroused. odd coincidence, wonder what it means (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35742991) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 2:34 PM Author: Self-centered Crawly Theatre Chad We're hardwired to be attracted to nurturing women with wide hips and supple bosoms. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35745062) |
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Date: April 3rd, 2018 1:12 PM Author: supple giraffe Good thing you’re here for us. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35752199) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 9:48 AM Author: milky university twinkling uncleanness It’s funny that libs are so focused on “narrative” when everything they believe is obviously part of a big bullshit story. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35742648) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:43 AM Author: erotic boiling water office Narrative and framing are the means by which they destroy themselves and try to destroy us. Narrative = poison. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35743014) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 12:53 PM Author: learning disabled field genital piercing (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35744203) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 9:48 AM Author: navy judgmental idea he suggested I suspect in about 20 years millennials are going to have the highest suicide rates of any other previous generation. Growing up in instant gratification culture has truly ruined them.
Their educational decisions, tattoos, delaying adulthood decisions, refusing to have kids, all because they live in the here and now and have zero ability to think ahead even just a few years. They're going to hit their 40s and 50s and realize all the stuff they missed out on. |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:04 AM Author: Sooty Kitty Cat tattoos are 180 mom (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35742742) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:11 AM Author: bull headed gas station (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35742779) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 12:47 PM Author: Primrose Electric Black Woman Depressive fuck (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35744145) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 3:52 PM Author: flushed soul-stirring menage but.... but... experiences not things! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35745670) |
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Date: April 3rd, 2018 5:19 AM Author: lemon out-of-control library ITE, the destruction of familial/communal bonds by GC, as well as the culture industry's assault on truth...all contribute to making shiftless hedonism the most appealing option for millenials.
consciously or not, most already understand that the lifestyles their parents had are unattainable and have adapted as such. |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 9:49 AM Author: milky university twinkling uncleanness “Now, I finally get it. Once I became a parent, my mother's words made terrifying sense to me. When I’m on the floor, pointing out the color blue to my infant son while simultaneously answering work emails, or when his busy paws swipe the keys of my laptop while I’m trying to meet a deadline, I struggle to contain the reflexive surge of rage in my throat.” (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35742656) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 9:51 AM Author: Amethyst Comical Address Is this flame?
If not, people who find inherent value in their work outside of providing for their family are awful |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 9:56 AM Author: navy judgmental idea he suggested She's gets annoyed when she is working on this article and misses her kid's bedtime, then gets annoyed when he wakes up and it takes 40 minutes to get him back to sleep. People like this just want to complain. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35742693) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:02 AM Author: unhinged nighttime electric furnace newt You cannot care for an infant or toddler and work at the same time. It's impossible. You are cheating someone out of their time. And it's pretty clear who's more important in this person's world. Even though im willing to bet that whatever she's doing is really not all that important.
If you have to get work done, arrange for child care. It's not that fucking hard. |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:05 AM Author: navy judgmental idea he suggested This generation has been raised to identify with their careers, not their families. They look at parenthood as a sacrifice that takes them away from their careers, and not vice versa. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35742746) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:14 AM Author: Boyish market (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35742791) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:47 AM Author: Gaped salmon philosopher-king This is 100% cr and people won’t realize how empty their lives are until they’re 45 and it’s too late. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35743057) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 1:15 PM Author: Diverse toaster nursing home You’re killing it itt (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35744357) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:36 AM Author: coral aphrodisiac generalized bond legend Very true. If i'm alone with my kids and have to take a quick call I literally have to lock myself in a room and hope my children don't kill themselves. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35742965) |
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Date: April 3rd, 2018 1:14 PM Author: supple giraffe Thought she was mad at the job at first. LJL (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35752233) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 9:56 AM Author: Amethyst Comical Address If my mother felt that having a career and a family at the same time was a mistake, I no longer had proof that the opposite was true. What had happened to my feminist hero? And also, as I yelled at her over roast chicken at Rosh Hashana dinner, why didn’t she tell me this before I got knocked up?
And also, as I yelled at her over roast chicken at Rosh Hashana dinner AndAnd also, as I yelled at her over roast chicken at Rosh Hashana dinner also, as I yelled at her over roast chicken at Rosh Hashana dinner And also, as I yelled at her over roast chicken at Rosh Hashana dinner And also, as I yelled at her over roast chicken at Rosh Hashana dinner |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:05 AM Author: Sooty Kitty Cat (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35742745) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:15 AM Author: Boyish market while your Orthodox 2d cousin begins absentmindedly rubbing her foot against yours under the table (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35742799) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:48 AM Author: Gaped salmon philosopher-king Lulz. Would love to see a slutty orthodox 2nd cousin meme take off, but it obviously won’t. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35743062) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:51 AM Author: Mildly autistic stock car Probably because the only ones of us who even have an "Orthodox 2nd cousin" are DBG and maybe Phineasgage. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35743083) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:56 AM Author: Gaped salmon philosopher-king I don’t have one, but I still think it’s funny. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35743122) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:56 AM Author: Boyish market nothing "slutty" about the 2d cuz (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35743120) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 12:53 PM Author: Beta den jew Every. Single. Time. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35744208) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 12:56 PM Author: learning disabled field genital piercing Ugh (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35744231) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 9:57 AM Author: smoky ticket booth toilet seat Anything they can to reduce white births (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35742697) |
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Date: April 3rd, 2018 12:21 PM Author: mewling internet-worthy selfie Jews are white now?
This is what I don't get. Quiverfull and similar are country white thinking (the Duggars, etc.) plus the much more attainable cost of living in are country should mean that prole, are country white birth rate is blowing away other whites and are country whites should be emerging as a huge part of the mix of whites overall. How is there not well-known research about this? |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:06 AM Author: big saffron mood jesus (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35742756) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:13 AM Author: Boyish market titcr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35742785) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 12:21 PM Author: bespoke hot sandwich was killed by this person's ancestors (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35743904) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:12 AM Author: Maize tattoo >> In itself, the fact that many well-educated women view professional success as key to happiness, rather than marriage and babies, is undoubtedly a good thing. <<
Why?
You might say that it's a good thing that the small subset of women who have no maternal instinct or desire are able to find happiness in other things such as a career -- but the author asserts that this switch is good without ever explaining why. |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:24 AM Author: Hairless trump supporter hairy legs (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35742866) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 12:54 PM Author: Beta den jew (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35744215) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:42 AM Author: Bossy massive messiness resort That's like the one part of the article I disagree with. The rest sounds about right though. Sry so. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35743007) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:21 AM Author: French area police squad holy shit this might be the most toxic thing i've ever seen posted on XO
it just keeps going and going and going. these women are not salvageable - they're brainwashed to the point where there's no going back. they cannot be saved |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:21 AM Author: Brass odious turdskin (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35742845) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 3:24 PM Author: excitant sinister institution trust fund (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35745448) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 5:46 PM Author: snowy parlor crotch cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35746631) |
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Date: April 3rd, 2018 1:05 PM Author: Irradiated Fear-inspiring Potus (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35752124) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:25 AM Author: Frisky stain LJL at "men" who can't afford to let their wives be SAHMs if they want to be. That's a big "if" because a lot of moms want to have their cake and eat it too and work ~15 hours a week. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35742881) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:27 AM Author: Purple laser beams haunted graveyard i think the problem here is that the wives don't want to be SAHMs (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35742887) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:28 AM Author: big saffron mood SAHM guilt, too
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:34 AM Author: Maize tattoo the problem is that women want to bitch and moan regardless.
the will bitch about being "unfulfilled" as a SAHM
they will bitch about being burned out and not as successful in either endeavor if they do both
they will bitch if they eschew kids because they've been "forced" to choose and because they are going against biology. |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 11:16 AM Author: Frisky stain I married a cheerful pharma who works 2 days, ~15 hours a week and spends the rest with our kids. Still brings in $50K/yr and hooks me up with whatever drugs I want. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35743299) |
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Date: April 3rd, 2018 12:23 PM Author: mewling internet-worthy selfie Describe your spouse. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35751772) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:39 AM Author: Bossy massive messiness resort Overwhelming majority of families can't afford it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35742993) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:40 AM Author: big saffron mood (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35742996) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:43 AM Author: Maize tattoo and why is that... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35743017) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 11:08 AM Author: Boyish market for some retarded definition of "afford," yes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35743234) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 1:16 PM Author: bespoke hot sandwich (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35744362) |
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Date: April 3rd, 2018 2:58 AM Author: histrionic frozen goyim why is that? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35749935) |
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Date: April 3rd, 2018 9:14 AM Author: green rehab Minorities! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35750538) |
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Date: April 3rd, 2018 11:12 AM Author: Khaki metal athletic conference late capitalism. employers and the government do nothing to help families by and large, and actively disincentivize people from having a family at worst. and then people wonder why fertility rates are declining. even people making six figures often can't afford to have one of the parents stay at home especially in urban areas. child care is ridiculously expensive. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35751241) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:31 AM Author: Maize tattoo Well, this isn't just a men issue.
Remember a lot of these women have been working for years, and most times not really saving anything, so their consumption levels are high -- and those consumption levels only increase when they meet a man who has a similar or higher level of income.
Second, women in the workforce is a self-perpetuating evil. The more two-income households there are, the harder it is for a woman to drop out of the labor force because of the expense, particularly housing. |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:49 AM Author: big saffron mood women can work and have kids
so many have done it and have done it well
the emphasis on empathy and self-care in modern women/moms has really driven the conversation down into the dumps - articles like this fit in line with the greater illness
women in these spaces aren't talking about how great motherhood is because you're not allowed to have a human experience if you're not suffering or a victim |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 11:02 AM Author: crystalline step-uncle's house Cr the only woman who HAD IT ALL was Huma Abedin and look how that turned out (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35743166) |
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Date: April 3rd, 2018 12:26 PM Author: mewling internet-worthy selfie All Joy and No Fun is still mostly CR though. We parent in a very different way than our parents did. Even my older sister and all of her friends who were all very UMC had their toddlers watching shitloads of TV so that they could have mental breaks, but now that's basically grounds for CPS to confiscate your children today.
Also social media is fucking toxic to young parents because it's a fake social connection back to the people you can't hang out with anymore, only it's a totally bullshit version of those people and on some level your brain knows this and hates itself for falling for the trick of it over and over. |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 11:07 AM Author: Boyish market Surely we learned our lesson about personal savings from the 2008 crash
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/PSAVERT |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 12:23 PM Author: bespoke hot sandwich more like they want to stay at home but still be able to spend as much $ as their dual income friends (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35743927) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 12:25 PM Author: Maize tattoo (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35743942) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:30 AM Author: bistre immigrant This is peak xo right here. I feel the last 4 or 5 years have all been leading to this thread. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35742921) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:31 AM Author: Purple laser beams haunted graveyard (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35742925) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 1:17 PM Author: Diverse toaster nursing home (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35744364) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:34 AM Author: Stirring Talking Set xo likes to shame women for thinking that having a kid sucks, but they can't rebut the underlying point. it does suck. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35742951) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:35 AM Author: Maize tattoo Anything worth having requires hard work. News at 11. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35742958) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:46 AM Author: racy anal jap church building (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35743047) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:46 AM Author: Purple laser beams haunted graveyard (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35743048) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 11:55 AM Author: Stirring Talking Set a lot of things not worth having also require hard work. having a kid won't fix anything. it's not rewarding, you won't have a good relationship, and it'll provide no comfort or satisfaction in your old age. it's just not worth it for most people (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35743669) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 11:57 AM Author: Mildly autistic stock car I don't know if that's true. Talk to a bunch of old people and the overwhelming majority will strongly disagree. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35743676) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 11:59 AM Author: Stirring Talking Set people will tend to defend their choices if asked directly. it's considered horrible to say that having kids was a mistake (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35743694) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 12:04 PM Author: Mildly autistic stock car I don't disagree with this. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35743742) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 1:35 PM Author: fuchsia alpha son of senegal many old people who didn't have kids are filled with regret and won't defend that choice (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35744587) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 2:08 PM Author: Diverse toaster nursing home ? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35744872) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 3:16 PM Author: Mildly autistic stock car I've never actually seen this IRL. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35745390) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 3:24 PM Author: bull headed gas station Ditto, it's only a major regret if they were literally unable to have them or something. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35745446) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 5:20 PM Author: Mildly autistic stock car tcr. I saw a study that said this too. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35746395) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 3:26 PM Author: Maize tattoo I saw it just this weekend, from two separate people. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35745458) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 5:21 PM Author: Mildly autistic stock car I will also note that it is totally acceptable to say "I wish I could have had kids". It is totally unacceptable to say "fuck, having kids was my biggest mistake. They wasted my money, turned out horribly and we barely have a relationship." Yet, how many people end up with kids that fit the last line? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35746404) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 5:34 PM Author: Maize tattoo I think that's probably a factor, though kids have a way of quashing regrets, and because most people have more than 1 kid, and because it's highly unlikely that every kid will be such a monstrous fuckup (including future grandchildren) odds are that the vast majority of parents will be happy that they had kids because of at least 1 kid or grandkid that they can't imagine life without. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35746486) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 6:14 PM Author: Mildly autistic stock car I've seen a ton of examples of "all the kids turned out to be fuckups". (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35746915) |
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Date: April 3rd, 2018 11:04 AM Author: Diverse toaster nursing home (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35751180) |
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Date: April 3rd, 2018 12:32 PM Author: mewling internet-worthy selfie You're Russian, though. You people are autistic animals. I've known tons of slavic families in the US that all hate each other, including my dad's. Half of them are genuinely happier alone. SPS white people like the Scots-Irish do the same thing, except they're consumed with guilt about it and kill themselves with alcohol, pills and shit food (aka my mom's family). But Italians? Not to mention basically all model minorities? They respect family and stay bonded. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35751841) |
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Date: April 3rd, 2018 1:04 PM Author: Mildly autistic stock car I won't disagree that Russians are way more commonly autists. On the bright side, everyone knows how to deal with it. In the US people act like being Aspie is the worst thing on the planet. In Russia you shrug and say Sasha is a bit awkward and you accept the eccentricities that come with that. Most would rather have an autist than a dumb for a kid, even if the latter has a big wide smile and is on the High School varsity whatever team or something. OTOH, Russians have actual friends that will help each other out, rather than the friends of convenience that are standard fare for the US.
Italians? Sure. Asians (S or E)? Sure. Jews? From what I can tell, hit or miss.
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Date: April 3rd, 2018 4:03 PM Author: mewling internet-worthy selfie Of course Jews are hit or miss. Not coincidentally, Jews are also very likely to be autists, especially Ashkenazi that are numerous in the NYC metro area. And certain aspects of Jewish religion and parenting culture, at least in the U.S., seem genuinely hostile toward the broader culture and intended to promote of friction and control issues and insularity. Jewish parents hold their culture and religion hostage to their demands of their children in how they live their lives, who they choose to marry, etc. It's no wonder the kids flee from those kinds of parents and turn their backs on their culture, don't want to marry or have kids. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35753801) |
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Date: April 4th, 2018 2:45 PM Author: Mildly autistic stock car Wouldn't the sensible response just be to just marry one of the other 98% of humans in the country? I mean, Russians can have terrible relationships with their parents/families and still shrug it off and get married. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35762947) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 1:18 PM Author: Diverse toaster nursing home “You won’t have a good relationship” ? |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 12:29 PM Author: nubile hospital "Anything worth having requires hard work."
And so do many things not worth having. |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 12:34 PM Author: Sooty Kitty Cat many things not worth having also require hard work (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35744022) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:37 AM Author: vivacious vermilion center blood rage (Low T manchild) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35742974) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:37 AM Author: Bossy massive messiness resort Cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35742977) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:55 AM Author: Boyish market No doubt that parenthood is stressful & hard. But that's not what this article says. It says parenthood "sucks" because baby gets in way of the "24/7 work" which you should prefer doing instead. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35743118) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 11:00 AM Author: big saffron mood it's common knowledge that aspects of parenting are hard, can feel isolating, and suck
however, the disruption of parenthood is expected, universal
this article attempts to be in touch with that truth, but the way it's conveyed is such a distraction |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 11:17 AM Author: Mildly autistic stock car Fair. It regards kids as an inconvenience in a plan that is purely focused on career rather than as a major and expected life event that has a number of challenges. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35743311) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 11:18 AM Author: Frisky stain (Guy who deposits his seed mens' asses) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35743319) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 11:20 AM Author: Mildly autistic stock car Sure it does. Many things suck. When can we expect a series of articles about how high hours jobs suck? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35743346) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:42 AM Author: Bossy massive messiness resort Anti feminist trump mo here. But objectively it does kind of suck. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35743012) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:46 AM Author: Purple laser beams haunted graveyard i hope you never have kids (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35743043) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:46 AM Author: racy anal jap church building Lmao cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35743051) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:46 AM Author: coral aphrodisiac generalized bond legend Where did the idea that "women can have it all" come from? I think the intent of mid 20th century feminism was to give women a choice - you can work and have a fulfilling career if the housewife thing or teaching isn't for you. The end goal was the choice, not having it all. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35743042) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:49 AM Author: Mildly autistic stock car To be fair, everyone wants to "have it all". Guys here talk all the time about wanting a wife and kids and lots of money and to fuck a young teen girl on the side and being super successful, etc. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35743068) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 10:57 AM Author: coral aphrodisiac generalized bond legend Well sure but I'm thinking more specifically about the career/kids dilemma. It seemed like part of the point of the article was that the idea that women should be able to have both a career and a family makes having both of those things more difficult than they should be (and maybe makes each ultimately pointless endeavors). I'm not trying to take anything away from the fact that that choice is probably very difficult and something much more unique to women than men but it may benefit some people to not be pressured into thinking they need to do both. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35743125) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 11:03 AM Author: Mildly autistic stock car This baffles me probably because I come from a Russian family where women having careers and a family is a given. There's no reason women can't have decent careers and be parents, unless their concept of careers is doing some bullshit that is totally incompatible ("I'm a consultant that travels half the time and I want to keep doing that and have kids because I LIKE to travel!"). This is especially bad with women that have bullshit careers that are time consuming but also pay little, so they have no money to pay for nannies and such.
Anyway, I work at a megacorp where a ton of managers and above are women and pretty much all of them above a certain age have kids. |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 11:50 AM Author: multi-colored friendly grandma idiot I don’t know how it is in Russia, but in China, extended families tend to stay in the same city at least and grandparents/aunts are constantly around to help. Domestic help is also dirt cheap. Most Chinese women work as well.
In the US, the emphasis on moving away from your parents and extended family (again for career) makes it much much harder to rear children. Domestic help is also extremely expensive. I’d argue moving away from extended family is also worse for the children themselves as some of my fondest memories prior to moving to the US was spending everyday with my grandma and cousins and aunts. |
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Date: April 3rd, 2018 1:06 PM Author: Irradiated Fear-inspiring Potus lol, domestic help is hardly expensive in the US. in fact, its cheaper than almost any other major country except maybe like HK/Singapore (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35752131) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 11:03 AM Author: big saffron mood it's an agonizing cycle, putting all your eggs in one basket while you wait for the other basket to appear
if only we lived in a culture where the focus on work = identity was a little less and the emphasis on family >>>>>> all was followed through, not just a PR campaign
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 11:04 AM Author: coral aphrodisiac generalized bond legend Cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35743181) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 11:06 AM Author: Mildly autistic stock car I don't know that it is just "work = identity" so much as everything is expensive as fuck so you basically have to sort out work first. Afterall, I can't imagine having kids in a shit 1 bedroom apartment you're renting, so you want a nice house in a nice suburb with good schools (because if you can't afford that then you sure as hell can't afford private schools). Of course, GC knows this so they take advantage by pushing the line of "work = identity" so they can get you to commit to way more than 40 hours a week, because it is "who you are" and not merely your job. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35743203) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 11:08 AM Author: big saffron mood yes, work(ing too much) = absolutely fucking necessary is probably more relevant than work = identity
good point, thanks for expanding on my math |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 11:11 AM Author: Mildly autistic stock car Yeah, just wanted to note that because people get cause and effect wrong, which leads to dumb solutions (everyone should be a stay at home mom! That'll be great!). IRL, it is because GC has created an all or nothing employment environment where if you want to raise kids in a decent environment you need two parents in high-intensity careers along with huge swaths of society that are simply fucked. There need to be more options that are well paying and more humane. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35743260) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 12:12 PM Author: Gaped salmon philosopher-king Scholarship.
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Date: April 3rd, 2018 11:21 AM Author: Khaki metal athletic conference friend, let me introduce you to socialism. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35751300) |
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Date: April 3rd, 2018 11:59 AM Author: Mildly autistic stock car My family knows the joys of living in a socialist paradise! For some reason, we decided to leave but as you can imagine, we're thrilled that it is now coming to our new home! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35751570) |
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Date: April 3rd, 2018 12:38 PM Author: mewling internet-worthy selfie Tell us more about Denmark! Or was it Austria!?!?!? Maybe Canada! We can all agree that subhuman filth that were literally under the bootheel of a 15th century style God Monarch when our grandparents were kids = probably not going to form a functional society in three generations. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35751892) |
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Date: April 3rd, 2018 1:09 PM Author: Mildly autistic stock car Denmark and Austria aren't TRUE socialist paradises, they're still run by evil capitalists. The USSR, OTOH... And Comrade Stalin, who you surely refer to (unless you imagined Comrade Mao) was merely the instrument to bring about that paradise! For example, before Stalin (and Mao, for that matter) you had the awfulness of capitalist-style farming. Sure, TRUE socialism required some sacrifices (such as famine killing millions) but you can't make an omelet without breaking some eggs!
By the way, the US is not going to become Denmark or Austria. Both are small, homogenous countries with pretty much no military spending. Denmark has considerable natural resources and Austria actually keeps a tight lid on social spending. The US is heading towards the USSR, with leftist authoritarianism run by an elite. |
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Date: April 3rd, 2018 3:51 PM Author: mewling internet-worthy selfie Your autistic Russian response to an invocation of various western "social democratic" governments as "not true socialism" is hilarious and pitch perfect accurate imitation of the 105 IQ campus leftists who drop out of school to become full time protesters. But back here in reality, Denmark and Austria are #3 and #4 in social spending per capita globally, 1.5x the U.S. rate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_social_welfare_spending#Per_capita
Let's bump up U.S. social spending 1.5x per capita, say with national health insurance and free trade schools, including grey collar tech jobs and similar reforms that a smart net exporter country like Germany does, for all non-criminal high school graduates who can pass a basic entrance exam (while also securing the borders, passing e-verify and then see about deporting at least a couple million illegal immigrants starting with the shittiest/worst ones like MS13 instead of just the easiest ones to find), and see what happens. Maybe also some infrastructure training to go along with a new generational infrastructure spending bill. While we're at it we could also gut the student loan industry--as you can see I'm all for balancing spending with cuts--and maybe undermine the dominant position that 4 year colleges/universities currently occupy as gatekeepers to the middle class. Perhaps we even, I don't know, pass some laws limiting lifetime tenure appointments to certain fields/limited headcount/a certain number of years before forced retirement like every other government job, and apply those rules to any university accepting federal funds. And I bet we can find even more money in the budget if we quit starting and prolonging idiotic neocon wars in the middle east. In other words, all the stuff Trump said he would do even though everyone knew he was completely full of shit and would do the opposite and then pass a Koch brothers wet dream tax cut, and that Bernie also said but actually meant. |
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Date: April 4th, 2018 3:07 PM Author: Mildly autistic stock car If you roll healthcare spending into national social spending (which, they do and we don't aside from Medicare and Medicaid) then you're going to get very different numbers.
In any event, of course I'm being sarcastic and socialism is absolute shit. |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 11:16 AM Author: coral aphrodisiac generalized bond legend You can make it work on a single salary if you really want that. Most people lie to themselves, though, because they don't want that but don't want to admit it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35743301) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 11:18 AM Author: Mildly autistic stock car You could, but it is shit and personally, I'd have no desire to live like that. For that matter, very few people I know would. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35743324) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 1:28 PM Author: learning disabled field genital piercing Leave mfh you fucking idiot (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35744479) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 1:44 PM Author: Mildly autistic stock car I haven't lived actually in MFH for a very long time. If you mean "go live in the middle of fucking nowhere" then I'll note that our jobs revolve around large cities. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35744691) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 5:45 PM Author: bespoke hot sandwich (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35746623) |
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Date: April 3rd, 2018 11:18 AM Author: Khaki metal athletic conference This right here. 99% of "careers" are utterly meaningless aside from the money they provide you. Even the average CEO at a F500 will be totally forgotten ten years after by anyone other than their family, who will probably resent them because you have to be a sociopath and neglect your family to get that seat. Having a kid is hard fucking work, but I feel more fulfilled by the year I've gotten to spend with my kid than the entirety of my life preceding that. And I've had, by most objective standards, a pretty happy, successful life. Careerism and late capitalism are a cancer and our only hope for saving the world from inevitable decline is to return to a focus on family and human connection >>> profit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35751274) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 11:05 AM Author: crystalline step-uncle's house Btw if a man stays at home to raise the kids so the wife can have it all, she very quickly resents him and loses all respect for him despite the fact that he does a great job and doesn't complain (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35743194) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 11:06 AM Author: Mildly autistic stock car Agreed, though I note that men resent stay at home wives too. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35743206) |
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Date: April 3rd, 2018 11:23 AM Author: Khaki metal athletic conference bullshit. my wife is a fucking champ for doing SAHM and puts in a ton of work to support me and the kid. any husband that resents his SAHM wife probably just doesn't like having a family or his wife to begin with. there are a lot of shitty, shallow people in the world and our society encourages that kind of selfishness. and i know a few guys doing SAHD because their wives make more, and their marriages and kids are doing great. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35751313) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 11:02 AM Author: poppy thriller half-breed lodge But the greater emphasis is fuckin' young teen girls on the side, amirite? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35743167) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 11:13 AM Author: snowy parlor crotch Lol, except society doesn't perpetuate the idea that men not only can, but SHOULD have both. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35743274) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 12:28 PM Author: nubile hospital "To be fair, everyone wants to 'have it all'."
Some fucker won that big Mega Millions jackpot. Now I'll have to wait until it gets big again. |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 1:43 PM Author: Mildly autistic stock car Hey, that's the thing. Now if anyone has it better than us we feel screwed instead of being thankful that we have it better than the overwhelming majority of the world. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35744680) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 11:09 AM Author: Amber wagecucks It is a fucking joke that these women exist - making very little money that, on a post-tax basis, may only barely cover the cost of outsourcing her motherhood duties via childcare and nannies/pre-school etc (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35743243) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 11:28 AM Author: Gaped salmon philosopher-king One consideration is that even if her salary doesn’t cover child care, you only need full time child care for like 5 years while taking a 5 year career break can destroy decades of earning potential. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35743416) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 11:20 AM Author: Self-centered Crawly Theatre Chad The larger issue here is we're a society of losers and whiners. "Men" and women today bitch and complain way too fucking much and will never enjoy their lives even if they're solid 165s because they feel entitled to 180 without the skills, smarts, work ethics and/or genetic lottery tickets to merit it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35743347) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 11:25 AM Author: Mildly autistic stock car Agreed. This is thanks to the internet where "publishing" articles involve a few hours of writing, barely any editing and a click to publish. Even major publications now routinely have typos in them. Because the revenue model is all about clickbait and everyone is supposed to publish articles all the time and no one pays for real reporting, these sorts of "whine about shit everyone goes through" articles are really common.
Compare to the 1980s where getting published meant taking up space in something printed on paper (which costs money) so 99% of the shit out there would never see the light of day. |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 11:47 AM Author: Self-centered Crawly Theatre Chad CR. Every time one of these moaning hivemind articles is posted it's usually from a site I've never heard of yet apparently has quite an online following. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35743605) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 12:27 PM Author: milky university twinkling uncleanness Agreed. So much of this stuff is driven by a huge apex fallacy. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35743961) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 12:29 PM Author: Maize tattoo (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35743979) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 11:53 AM Author: multi-colored friendly grandma idiot Meh this is just another whiny article from millennials. Surprised xoxo is falling for this clickbait. All these 27 year old women will be knocked up in 5 years and either quit their tutoring jobs or continue to work some part time freelancing. They just want to appear angsty and sooo important about their careers right now. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35743653) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 11:58 AM Author: big saffron mood (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35743690) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 11:59 AM Author: Razzle-dazzle fluffy corner associate I'll be 32 this year we are mostly not knocked up yet in NYC! You weren't either. Most are waiting until last minute. This will limit family size. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35743695) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 12:07 PM Author: multi-colored friendly grandma idiot The shrews with actual careers are waiting til the last minute because they don’t want to move, but the freelancing crowd who churn out these garbage articles are waiting to early-mid 30s when they finally meet a rich guy/bf strikes it rich or reality sets in and they have to move back Kansas with their poor guy and be closer to family help/low COL.
Overall I don’t think there’s any crisis of people not having kids the way it is in Japan. People as just delaying having children until 30s.
I don’t actually think there’s some “me me me” crisis happening unique to millenials. Every generation hates the generation below them and thinks they are entitled and selfish, but life goes on. Older people hated gen x in the 90s too.
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 12:08 PM Author: Mildly autistic stock car Family sizes are way smaller though. I know a ton of women with only 1 kid these days whereas a few generations ago that was pretty rare. 3 kids are considered a huge family. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35743787) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 12:54 PM Author: multi-colored friendly grandma idiot Well when you no longer need hands to work on a farm and infant mortality is lower than it’s ever been and resources are more limited than ever, I don’t think declining family sizes are a bad thing (as long as it’s above population replacement level). Problem is getting the poor ethnics to also limit their family sizes instead of procreating like rabbits, but that’s a separate issue. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35744216) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 3:21 PM Author: vivacious vermilion center blood rage leave. the Irish. ALONE (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35745431) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 5:24 PM Author: Mildly autistic stock car "Problem is getting the poor ethnics to also limit their family sizes instead of procreating like rabbits, but that’s a separate issue."
Actually, same issue. This describes the long-term problem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwZ0ZUy7P3E |
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Date: April 3rd, 2018 1:07 PM Author: Irradiated Fear-inspiring Potus Japanese have a higher birth rate than white Californians, lol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35752142) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 12:10 PM Author: Maize tattoo It limits family size but it also limits grandparenting, which is one of the bigger tragedies, and I think that's what a lot people will realize too late, especially men who tend to be older than women when they have kids but who simultaneously die younger (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35743799) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 12:14 PM Author: Mildly autistic stock car I don't know that Boomers and later generations have that much interest in grandparenting. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35743844) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 12:27 PM Author: Maize tattoo That hasn't been my experience, and it's something that I'm excited about in the future.
Universally people have told me that grandparenting is way way better than parenting, and it's great for the kids themselves too. |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 12:47 PM Author: multi-colored friendly grandma idiot Dude, there’s no telling if or when your own kids will have kids. I’d say don’t count on it, esp if you have any boys, they prob wont even get to it until age 40.
Also, very few white grandparents have any interest in actually being involved in the daily lives of their grandkids. I asked my husband if his mom would be willing to live in our guest house (with own kitchen and bath) for 3-4 months after #2 is here because my almost 70 year old mother needs some help and he said there’s no way his mother who is retired would do that. She’d rather us hire a Mexican nanny for $4000/mo. But she’ll buy gifts and write checks and stuff and visit 3-4 times/year. She LOVES being a grandma...on her terms.
Actual “grandparenting” the way my mother does day in and day out is as hard as parenting and very few grandparents are willing to do it.
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 12:51 PM Author: Maize tattoo I don't think grandparenting necessarily has to be surrogate parenting...kinda the whole point here.
As far as my own future kids -- all I can do is stress to them the importance of family and children, but i'd love as many grandchildren as I could get. |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 1:05 PM Author: multi-colored friendly grandma idiot Forget daily childcare. Any sort of meaningful grand parenting where you actually developed a real bond with children, esp young children, requires a lot of facetime because, other than parents, young kids tend to be out of sight, out of mind. At a minimum, it requires living in the same city within a reasonable distance (or as willing as grandparents are willing to travel). Lots of grandparents who live within the same metro area aren’t willing to travel an hour or so each way to see their grandkids once a week for half a day. Most of my friends with grandparents in a 20-30 mile radius will trek there maybe once a month. Vast majority of friends have grandparents who live in another city anyway so once a month isn’t even realistic.
I’m just saying it’s easy for grandparents to say they “love” it when it doesn’t involve much sacrifice on their part, which is the way things work in these times. The same could be said for being an aunt or uncle. I think it’s extremely beneficial for kids to be around extended families all the time and be around their cousins. But people just don’t live geographically around family anymore (other than in ethnic communities).
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 12:54 PM Author: Razzle-dazzle fluffy corner associate Dude my in-laws wouldn't do this and they are Asian. I agree there is a huge diff btw wanting to be a grandparent vs. wanting to be regular caregiver to an infant. Frankly so many are in such shit health by then it's not even possible. My mom would rather I hire a Mexican too. She's too busy booming and also refuses to listen to me so it's just not a solution. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35744211) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 12:56 PM Author: bespoke hot sandwich lol at you getting pissed at your MIL because she won't live in your garage and be your slave (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35744232) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 1:04 PM Author: Mildly autistic stock car tcr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35744273) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 1:25 PM Author: Gaped salmon philosopher-king There is an intermiedate option between absentee grandparenting and living in your converted garage so you can save $50k/year on a nanny. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35744451) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 1:35 PM Author: learning disabled field genital piercing You want to enslave your husband's mom and dare say "most don't want to actually help" stfu (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35744593) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 1:44 PM Author: Mildly autistic stock car It isn't really "enslaving" - it used to be standard. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35744696) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 1:58 PM Author: multi-colored friendly grandma idiot Lol at “enslaving” his mom when she literally has to do zero infant care and my mom will do the older child’s preschool drop off and pick up when I’m recovering from a csection. I’m also there at the same time on maternity leave doing most of the infant care. Her job would be to play with my son for a few hours/day when he’s not in preschool and helping him adjust, as he will not be getting as much attention from me. Slave labor!!
The funny thing is that I’m not asking much from them, esp compared to my own mother who gives and sacrifices a lot without my even asking. She does it for my benefit, not her grandchildren’s. That’s my mentality as well and I will do everything for my children to make their life easier in the future. My duty doesn’t stop at age 18.
She can also stay in the guest room at the main house if she wants but she is weird about personal space and always wants to stay in the guesthouse. In fact, they were the ones who said they’d come visit for longer than a week if they had their own space so we converted the garage for their benefit. Grandpa still has not come visit yet though and it’s been 2 years. Retired boomers with their pensions living in Florida working on their home construction projects instead of spending time with their only grandchildren. |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 12:33 PM Author: Razzle-dazzle fluffy corner associate Ljl at your expecting down payments and childcare from your cushy in laws. Wanting to be a grandparents does not equal wanting to provide childcare for ape daughter and son in law. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35744006) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 12:35 PM Author: bespoke hot sandwich pretty sure XO understands the late 20s MY masters MY journo job to the early 30s "oh fuck I need to get knocked up before my eggs shrivel, yea he's almost 6' he'll do" shrew timeline quite well. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35744030) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 12:58 PM Author: Abusive cerebral box office affirmative action cr. nutella has a compulsive need to chime in with her knowitall bullshit (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35744239) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 11:58 AM Author: Razzle-dazzle fluffy corner associate Are there stats bearing this out?
My friends are mostly pausing this except those who live in lcol areas and those in Canada and Japan (surprisingly) ljl. |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 12:27 PM Author: bat-shit-crazy stimulating boltzmann pleasantly surprised by the perspectives of xo women itt (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35743951) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 12:33 PM Author: vivacious vermilion center blood rage xo women, for all their faults, are more heroic than we give them credit for (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35744003) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 12:34 PM Author: Razzle-dazzle fluffy corner associate We regularly choose to read shit toxic to most women so... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35744012) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 12:35 PM Author: vivacious vermilion center blood rage exactly
you seem like shitlibs to us anonymous men but IRL polite women deem you fascists yourselves |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 12:39 PM Author: Razzle-dazzle fluffy corner associate There are true shitlib fempoasters e.g. BS and Julia.
but there is less denial of lots of aspects of reality amongst fempoasters than irl females. |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 12:42 PM Author: bat-shit-crazy stimulating boltzmann (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35744102) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 12:46 PM Author: Maize tattoo (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35744130) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 1:10 PM Author: vivacious vermilion center blood rage agreed (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35744308) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 1:23 PM Author: spectacular flesh elastic band dysfunction (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35744426) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 5:22 PM Author: Mildly autistic stock car (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35746409) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 7:37 PM Author: misanthropic hall quadroon (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35747458) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 12:43 PM Author: bespoke hot sandwich most XO chicks have kids by now so they're just trolling for their own life outcomes like they always have (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35744104) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 7:06 PM Author: big saffron mood (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35747255) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 1:38 PM Author: bateful orchestra pit the future is female, (((hehe))) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35744627) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 1:39 PM Author: ruddy sneaky criminal this is literally the opening to the movie Idiocracy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwZ0ZUy7P3E |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 1:39 PM Author: Vigorous azn abode this author didn't even have the courtesy for her fellow women to quietly correct the spelling and grammar errors in what i'm sure were hastily written texts or emails written on a phone by busy women.
instead, it's a parade of [sic] which is pretty indicative of the whole piece |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 1:52 PM Author: Gaped salmon philosopher-king I think most people agree that having kids makes you less happy while you are raising them but happier in the long run when you can look back on your life and feel like it had meaning.
Isn’t it called the happiness gap or something? |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 1:53 PM Author: snowy parlor crotch This is true for literally everything in life. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35744760) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 1:57 PM Author: Gaped salmon philosopher-king Not drugs. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35744788) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 2:04 PM Author: Purple laser beams haunted graveyard (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35744841) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 5:24 PM Author: shaky voyeur locus (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35746419) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 2:25 PM Author: Diverse toaster nursing home Jews (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35744984) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 2:32 PM Author: Self-centered Crawly Theatre Chad (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35745037) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 3:48 PM Author: racy anal jap church building Yep (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35745639) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 4:03 PM Author: flushed soul-stirring menage lol i doubt a fraction of men would give up their careers to stay at home with kids for an extended period (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35745764) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 4:05 PM Author: navy judgmental idea he suggested Men don't generally want to be teachers of young kids or nurses either. That doesn't mean they're terrible jobs. Women are just more nurturing on average. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35745790) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 4:10 PM Author: Diverse toaster nursing home “Women are just more nurturing on average.”
Wow, just wow... In 2018? I can’t even. |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 5:46 PM Author: ruddy sneaky criminal (google employee (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35746635) |
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Date: April 3rd, 2018 1:14 PM Author: Mildly autistic stock car YOUR WORDS ARE VIOLENCE! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35752238) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 4:14 PM Author: snowy parlor crotch I doubt a fraction of men would turn down sexual advances from a random 5 or 6 if approached at a bar.
It's almost like men and women are different. Odd case. |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 5:28 PM Author: Maize tattoo MFCR (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35746437) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 5:29 PM Author: Mildly autistic stock car (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35746445) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 5:34 PM Author: Pearl spot nutella jelly as fuck of the string of third world slaves I have begging to come visit on extended tourist visas. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35746480) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 5:47 PM Author: Maize tattoo "yes but based on Purchasing Power Parity my income last year was $3,000 higher than yours" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35746655) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 6:57 PM Author: multi-colored friendly grandma idiot Send em my way! They’d have an easy as fuck job like walking the dog and light cleaning btwn the regular weekly cleanings. my mom does most of the heavy lifting and the older one will be in preschool so won’t even be around. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35747206) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 6:57 PM Author: Pearl spot you pregnant again? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35747210) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 7:00 PM Author: multi-colored friendly grandma idiot Yup 4 months with a girl (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35747222) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 7:07 PM Author: big saffron mood ooh a boy and a girl, congrats! hope you feel well this pregnancy and the little gal who arrives will go easy on ya :) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35747261) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 7:13 PM Author: multi-colored friendly grandma idiot Thanks! I kinda wanted another boy since the same sex siblings seem to be closer, but I got over it in a day. My son is super active and naughty so I’m hoping for a change of pace. Girls are suppose to be mellower and easier until teens, so we’ll see. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35747317) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 7:16 PM Author: big saffron mood any stark differences in early pregnancy you've noticed between babby 1 and babby 2 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35747339) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 7:20 PM Author: multi-colored friendly grandma idiot More nausea this time around...lost a bunch of weight first trimester. But now feeling good. Hope the little guy is doing well! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35747366) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 7:22 PM Author: big saffron mood thanks, thanks
and I totally get the wanting two boys thing -- I secretly hope for the same once it's my time again
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 7:43 PM Author: multi-colored friendly grandma idiot I think it’s really wanting more of what you already have. I think my son is a cool dude (despite his naughtiness), and I can’t imagine having anything else, but if I had a girl first, Im sure I wouldn’t mind having another girl.
As much as I try not to be too gendered in my thinking and want to raise them to have similar values, I’ve already started worrying more about sending the right message to a girl in a way I don’t think about with a boy. I feel more pressure and worry about the self esteem thing. |
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Date: April 3rd, 2018 2:21 AM Author: Chocolate location are you going to raise your boy to be chad? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35749877) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 7:23 PM Author: Pearl spot congrats!!! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35747394) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 7:15 PM Author: excitant sinister institution trust fund lol women (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35747326) |
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Date: April 2nd, 2018 11:01 PM Author: onyx indirect expression Biology, not man, is woman's greatest oppressor (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35748842) |
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Date: April 3rd, 2018 9:11 AM Author: snowy parlor crotch cr.
Also: wow this thread blew up. I knew xoxo couldn't resist this topic. |
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Date: April 3rd, 2018 11:03 AM Author: Diverse toaster nursing home (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35751170) |
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Date: April 3rd, 2018 1:10 PM Author: Mildly autistic stock car This is much less politically convenient and therefore, you're a SEXIST who doesn't see their PRIVILEGE for even saying that. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35752175) |
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Date: April 3rd, 2018 1:12 PM Author: Up-to-no-good Useless Legal Warrant Kitchen The unnatural American nuclear family is the problem - the expectation that kids should be raised either by a SAHM or nanny is toxic. That's what grandparents, cousins,and other extended family are for - to support the parents in child-rearing, so that it doesn't become a matter of parenting vs working.
In Colombia and Jordan, all my female cousins have good careers, kids, and never stopped working. The ones who could afford it have live-in help, and the ones who couldn't relied on grandparents and extended family to take care of the kids. But Americans hate their families and move as far away as they can, isolating themselves into miserable lives of dislocation and anomie. |
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Date: April 3rd, 2018 1:29 PM Author: bespoke hot sandwich seriously, can you and all the other ethnics itt just move the fuck back to your homelands then if america sucks so bad? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35752379) |
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Date: April 3rd, 2018 1:31 PM Author: Up-to-no-good Useless Legal Warrant Kitchen You're an "ethnic", too, so why don't YOU move back to your homeland?
I can criticize America all I want. It has problems that deserve to be mentioned and addressed. |
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Date: April 3rd, 2018 2:44 PM Author: bespoke hot sandwich because I like it here and I don't shit all over the country that took my ancestors in 150+ years ago and talk about how it's so much better in other places. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35753082) |
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Date: April 3rd, 2018 1:33 PM Author: Diverse toaster nursing home They can’t and they won’t. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35752429) |
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Date: April 3rd, 2018 1:41 PM Author: racy anal jap church building (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35752501) |
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Date: April 3rd, 2018 2:57 PM Author: snowy parlor crotch Congrats, this might be the most pointless reply ITT. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35753187) |
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Date: April 4th, 2018 1:04 PM Author: Boyish market It's fucking hilarious. "The problem with Americans is they move away from their family. For instance, my cousins in Jordan and Columbia..." (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35761995) |
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Date: April 4th, 2018 1:40 PM Author: snowy parlor crotch Not to mention the nuclear family was the engine for the most prosperous period of American history.
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Date: April 30th, 2018 1:35 PM Author: dashing low-t heaven How is she wrong? Family life is uneccessarily stressful here, and this is artificially inflicted by our society. We have the resources, but the work and family culture makes it much for difficult than necessary (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35950910) |
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Date: April 3rd, 2018 4:46 PM Author: passionate house marketing idea Colombia. Jordan. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35754259) |
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Date: April 4th, 2018 1:06 PM Author: Amethyst Comical Address Tbf its a 180 mix (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3936497&forum_id=2#35762010) |