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So-called "litigators" who never clerked
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Date: May 18th, 2018 2:46 PM Author: Passionate amber immigrant national security agency (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3980461&forum_id=2#36078443) |
Date: May 18th, 2018 3:03 PM Author: Passionate amber immigrant national security agency The silence is a damning indictment of XO 2018 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3980461&forum_id=2#36078558) |
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Date: May 18th, 2018 3:07 PM Author: chrome aggressive puppy death wish District court is fairly useful and a sign of a young attorney with promise in litigation though it's neither sufficient nor necessary; I think a CoA clerkship is actually less significant (inverting the usual prestige pyramid) for general lit but great if they plan to focus on appellate obviously. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3980461&forum_id=2#36078598) |
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Date: May 18th, 2018 3:04 PM Author: Thirsty Razzle-dazzle Pisswyrm Elastic Band (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3980461&forum_id=2#36078568) |
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Date: May 18th, 2018 3:04 PM Author: bat shit crazy brunch How about if I clerk after two years at a firm? Does that make me only a little faggot? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3980461&forum_id=2#36078572) |
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Date: May 18th, 2018 3:05 PM Author: Umber Provocative Dilemma Boiling Water why would you want to clerk if you can get litigation job out of the gate. clerk is the consolation bracket (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3980461&forum_id=2#36078580) |
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Date: May 18th, 2018 3:06 PM Author: Wonderful Organic Girlfriend Trump'll never be president now. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3980461&forum_id=2#36078587) |
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Date: May 18th, 2018 3:08 PM Author: Motley confused heaven depressive never understood the appeal of a clerkship. i wanted to be a lawyer, not a clerk. so that's what i did. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3980461&forum_id=2#36078608) |
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Date: May 18th, 2018 3:12 PM Author: Passionate amber immigrant national security agency I want to hire someone to get a Court to rule in my favor. I know, I'll hire someone who has never seen how a single judge actually evaluates motions and briefs. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3980461&forum_id=2#36078640) |
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Date: May 18th, 2018 3:14 PM Author: Umber Provocative Dilemma Boiling Water lol if only they had enormous tomes of books wherein opinions by judges on motions and briefs were recorded for future reference, that would be very helpful for these guys (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3980461&forum_id=2#36078648) |
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Date: May 18th, 2018 3:41 PM Author: henna excitant twinkling uncleanness nibblets Opinions reveal essentially nothing about what judges actually think or how they decide cases (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3980461&forum_id=2#36078862) |
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Date: May 18th, 2018 3:15 PM Author: sinister narrow-minded knife halford They're all different anyway. A litigator with years of experience with all of the district court and state trial judges in his area will know more than some recent grad dipshit who clerked for a single judge in some flyover state 1,000 miles away. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3980461&forum_id=2#36078659) |
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Date: May 18th, 2018 3:24 PM Author: Odious stage cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3980461&forum_id=2#36078749) |
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Date: May 18th, 2018 4:27 PM Author: Thirsty Razzle-dazzle Pisswyrm Elastic Band (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3980461&forum_id=2#36079192) |
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Date: May 18th, 2018 6:13 PM Author: copper hospital half-breed Cr. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3980461&forum_id=2#36079997) |
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Date: May 18th, 2018 3:30 PM Author: Walnut Theater Stage every judge just makes it up on the fly (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3980461&forum_id=2#36078786) |
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Date: May 18th, 2018 3:32 PM Author: kink-friendly double fault base First. then they need the support for the thing that they want to do. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3980461&forum_id=2#36078800) |
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Date: May 18th, 2018 3:17 PM Author: chrome aggressive puppy death wish Part of the problem is the prestige-obsession of the profession drives law students to pursue clerkships more as a signaling device to firms than a genuine sign of interest in litigation. You might assume that, accordingly, firms would eventually take feedback from this fact and stop valuing clerkships as highly, but the problem is that firms are: (1) similarly prestige obsessed; (2) filled with people who are in litigation who are by all accounts shitty litigators, so they don't perceive the problem with hiring twenty-seven-year-old Arden out of his Third Circuit clerkship as a third-year with a $50k signing bonus even though he'll leave the firm in three years to open a cooperative llama farming endeavor after he "finds himself" (coincidentally around the time his loans are paid off and he's saved a bit of money), having spent exactly zero hours standing up on his feet in an Article III court. Not to say there aren't plenty of people who clerk and go on to become great litigators--of course there are--but it's an increasingly "noisy" signal at best about whether the attorney is actually going to thrive as a litigator. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3980461&forum_id=2#36078678) |
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Date: May 18th, 2018 3:24 PM Author: Awkward Electric Furnace TCR.
Appellate clerkships are worthless outside of appellate. They tend to be good writers, but so does anyone with good enough grades to land an appellate clerkship. Most importantly, with the exception of 2nd or 9th circuit clerks, these people are incapable of working the hours required to succeed in biglaw. Most of them should just go into academia. Or the state SG's office. |
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Date: May 18th, 2018 3:42 PM Author: henna excitant twinkling uncleanness nibblets This is objectively false. I know tons of attys with top grades from TTTs who can't write for shit (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3980461&forum_id=2#36078869) |
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Date: May 18th, 2018 3:44 PM Author: chrome aggressive puppy death wish Not a lot of people from TTTs with good grades are landing federal appellate clerkships. He's talking within the T14 and in that context his statement is totally valid. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3980461&forum_id=2#36078875) |
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Date: May 18th, 2018 4:51 PM Author: Soul-stirring Trailer Park only 1 person in my class got a COA clerkship, and he was #1 in the class. a t30 school (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3980461&forum_id=2#36079426) |
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Date: May 18th, 2018 4:05 PM Author: diverse nursing home Looking at writing samples isn't hard. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3980461&forum_id=2#36079010) |
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Date: May 18th, 2018 4:30 PM Author: Awkward Electric Furnace Are you retarded? How many Pace grads are clerking in the 2nd Circuit? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3980461&forum_id=2#36079230) |
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Date: May 18th, 2018 3:25 PM Author: Odious stage cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3980461&forum_id=2#36078755) |
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Date: May 18th, 2018 3:28 PM Author: Amethyst Theatre Keep talking shit about the Third Circuit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3980461&forum_id=2#36078773) |
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Date: May 18th, 2018 3:39 PM Author: Fiercely-loyal multi-colored codepig I’m just really glad this post wasn’t some sci fi xo fanfic (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3980461&forum_id=2#36078842) |
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Date: May 18th, 2018 3:43 PM Author: chrome aggressive puppy death wish But it is, that's the magic of it. It's the Yanny-or-Laurel of poasts. Want a lot, can't have everything / Can't have everything / Want a lot, can't have everything / But I want everything (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3980461&forum_id=2#36078871) |
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Date: May 18th, 2018 3:26 PM Author: kink-friendly double fault base I clerked. for a state court judge. during my 3L year in LS. Does that count? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3980461&forum_id=2#36078757) |
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Date: May 18th, 2018 3:27 PM Author: Wonderful Organic Girlfriend For your career, yes. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3980461&forum_id=2#36078761) |
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Date: May 18th, 2018 3:29 PM Author: kink-friendly double fault base yep! That's why I did it! See, I WAS a law clerk! (15-20 hrs a week for 9 months) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3980461&forum_id=2#36078779) |
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Date: May 18th, 2018 4:29 PM Author: Thirsty Razzle-dazzle Pisswyrm Elastic Band prole tell: calling an externship a clerkship (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3980461&forum_id=2#36079213) |
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Date: May 18th, 2018 4:41 PM Author: kink-friendly double fault base eh same same close enough (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3980461&forum_id=2#36079327) |
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Date: May 18th, 2018 4:44 PM Author: Thirsty Razzle-dazzle Pisswyrm Elastic Band not even close. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3980461&forum_id=2#36079357) |
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Date: May 18th, 2018 3:36 PM Author: shimmering hunting ground The clerk spent a year writing draft opinions, researching, reading briefs, bench memos, watching arguments and/or trials and talking to fellow clerks and at least one judge whereas the first year litigation associate did doc review, some research, and did not have the grades/personality etc to clerk. Which one is better? Other than the pay hit, there is no reason not to clerk if you want to litigate. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3980461&forum_id=2#36078829) |
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Date: May 18th, 2018 3:38 PM Author: Umber Provocative Dilemma Boiling Water other than all the miserable work you just described lol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3980461&forum_id=2#36078837) |
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Date: May 18th, 2018 3:57 PM Author: shimmering hunting ground Being a clerk is much better than doc review and junior associate grunt work.
But if you don’t love the law, probably you won’t clerk. |
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Date: May 18th, 2018 4:42 PM Author: Walnut Theater Stage (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3980461&forum_id=2#36079338) |
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Date: May 18th, 2018 4:39 PM Author: Awkward Electric Furnace Most of them did this right after 3L with no knowledge or understanding of anything. Chancery and SDNY/2d/7th/9th Cir. clerks are great. But otherwise I could give a fuck. I'd rather work with someone who has spent two years learning how biglaw works than some dweeb who spent a year in the District of Rhode Island and a year in the First Circuit.
Anyway brief and memo writing are about 25% of biglaw practice. Clerks have no fucking idea how to run a doc review, respond to doc requests/subpoenas, prepare witnesses for depos, etc. |
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Date: May 18th, 2018 4:40 PM Author: Clear Razzmatazz Deer Antler Lay MFE (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3980461&forum_id=2#36079313) |
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Date: May 18th, 2018 5:01 PM Author: territorial hissy fit Not having the grades/personality to clerk is a good thing (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3980461&forum_id=2#36079512) |
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Date: May 18th, 2018 6:09 PM Author: henna excitant twinkling uncleanness nibblets Cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3980461&forum_id=2#36079972) |
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Date: May 18th, 2018 6:16 PM Author: copper hospital half-breed I had a civil jury trial in my first year out of law center. Lol at biglawyers. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3980461&forum_id=2#36080012) |
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Date: May 18th, 2018 3:39 PM Author: Claret Thriller Office Clerked for a state circuit court level judge, clerked during law school and during the summers of LS. This has helped my alcohol problem 0% (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3980461&forum_id=2#36078845) |
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Date: May 18th, 2018 6:10 PM Author: henna excitant twinkling uncleanness nibblets Pretty obvious who's butthurt about not having the grades/intellect to get a clerkship itt (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3980461&forum_id=2#36079978) |
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Date: May 18th, 2018 6:12 PM Author: copper hospital half-breed Yet people with clerkships get shitcanned faster than those who leaned by doing. Why? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3980461&forum_id=2#36079990) |
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Date: May 18th, 2018 6:13 PM Author: henna excitant twinkling uncleanness nibblets Opposite is true (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3980461&forum_id=2#36079993) |
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Date: May 18th, 2018 6:22 PM Author: copper hospital half-breed Seems like lots of people who clerked can't take the stress of real shitigation. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3980461&forum_id=2#36080044) |