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Slate: Bookish gay kids viciously outed by junior high gym requirements

https://slate.com/human-interest/2018/05/gay-kids-and-sports-how
autistic cheese-eating national
  05/25/18
Every once in a while, as I walk my dog through the park, I’...
autistic cheese-eating national
  05/25/18
Why didn't he just practice a little and get better at sport...
Slippery Diverse Wrinkle Yarmulke
  05/25/18
...
Disturbing death wish center
  05/25/18
You need some guidance--how to get better. If your spazzy a...
exciting base
  05/25/18
Cr what he needs is a couple years of ballet
Swashbuckling Amethyst Antidepressant Drug Coffee Pot
  05/25/18
Remember: homosexuality is *not* a mental illness Never ...
Curious soggy stage
  05/25/18
Come on xo, that was pretty funny.
Provocative Garnet Stock Car University
  05/25/18
agreed he was funny but also revealing. As much as he hates ...
autistic cheese-eating national
  05/25/18
So this was not written by Michael Sam. Also this line: ...
Soul-stirring Kitchen
  05/25/18
I'm sure he never had impure thoughts about these boys' cock...
comical hospital
  05/25/18
Totally not, neither did I, haha, hahaha
Soul-stirring Kitchen
  05/25/18
...
Glassy Glittery Associate Partner
  05/26/18
(not aaron rodgers)
Swashbuckling Amethyst Antidepressant Drug Coffee Pot
  05/25/18
...
comical hospital
  05/25/18
...
fighting yapping orchestra pit
  05/25/18
can't believe i read more than a line of this drivel
Henna liquid oxygen
  05/25/18
me too and I can't believe I kept jacking off while reading
comical hospital
  05/25/18
...
Henna liquid oxygen
  05/25/18
"I stood by myself in a corner, silent and aghast, as t...
Hyperactive heady affirmative action
  05/25/18
sharklasers outted
Swashbuckling Amethyst Antidepressant Drug Coffee Pot
  05/25/18
...
Claret passionate cuckold
  05/25/18
...
Henna liquid oxygen
  05/25/18
...
Federal ungodly trailer park round eye
  05/25/18
...
Flirting opaque theatre sneaky criminal
  05/25/18
...
stirring violet jew rehab
  05/26/18
imagine being a JACKED AS FUCK gay man from Ancient Greece, ...
talented stage
  05/25/18
...
fighting yapping orchestra pit
  05/25/18
...
Indigo Box Office
  05/25/18
gay?
Slippery Diverse Wrinkle Yarmulke
  05/25/18
...
stimulating turquoise garrison
  05/25/18
...
Aromatic skinny woman ticket booth
  05/26/18
...
Free-loading filthpig
  05/25/18
...
fighting yapping orchestra pit
  05/25/18
1. >> This sex segregation marooned me from my friends...
metal weed whacker
  05/25/18
do ppl really have gym every single day?
Unholy impressive library
  05/25/18
(nerd)
Dull cuck messiness
  05/25/18
They did back in the day before everyone became an obese fag...
walnut vibrant reading party really tough guy
  05/26/18
wait, they don't have PE every day anymore?
galvanic drunken nibblets
  05/26/18
Expected someone fatter https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_ima...
Purple famous landscape painting french chef
  05/25/18
Conversely, I thought he would be scrawnier. If he were a f...
nudist double fault pistol
  05/25/18
"I hit gold with my eighth-grade coach, a gruff but kin...
Blue church laser beams
  05/25/18
LOL I’m sure there’s nothing else going on there
Swashbuckling Amethyst Antidepressant Drug Coffee Pot
  05/25/18
That’s known as “grooming”
walnut vibrant reading party really tough guy
  05/26/18
*crowbars jejune into prose*
Mahogany exhilarant mood
  05/26/18
...
amber toilet seat
  05/26/18
American fags drive me insane. My hockey league gets DEMOLIS...
stirring violet jew rehab
  05/26/18
all those limp wristed wrist shots lol
out-of-control cracking boistinker
  05/26/18
You jest, but these guys are certified musclestuds. played a...
stirring violet jew rehab
  05/26/18
...
out-of-control cracking boistinker
  05/26/18
you suggested this i take it?
out-of-control cracking boistinker
  05/26/18
Let's just say I was playing switch hitter that day
stirring violet jew rehab
  05/26/18
Worked harder than you
embarrassed to the bone irradiated pervert spot
  05/26/18
Gonna need a walkthrough of that one, hoss.
stirring violet jew rehab
  05/26/18
Probably why he went to harvard and you sweated out tufts
embarrassed to the bone irradiated pervert spot
  05/26/18
In a healthy Russian ruled society he would be taken out bac...
chrome public bath
  05/26/18
next in this hard-hitting series: junior high gym requiremen...
fragrant hissy fit
  05/26/18
conversely gay chicks were soccer studs
marvelous love of her life old irish cottage
  05/26/18


Poast new message in this thread



Reply Favorite

Date: May 25th, 2018 1:14 PM
Author: autistic cheese-eating national
Subject: https://slate.com/human-interest/2018/05/gay-kids-and-sports-how

I do not remember the moment I realized I was gay, but I do remember the moment I realized I wasn’t going to be able to hide it anymore. The boys of my sixth-grade class had been forced into the scalding north Florida sun for PE and instructed to play baseball. Our coach selected two team captains, who then chose members of their phalanx one by one. As always, I was picked last. I trudged toward the outfield and prayed that nobody hit any balls in my direction—so of course, within minutes, some kid smacked the baseball as hard as he could directly at my position. I stared at it, eyes stung by the sun, as it hurtled toward me through the air. I threw my hands up in terror but failed to block the projectile, which bonked me, hard, on the head.

The good news was that I could now plausibly allege an injury that would dismiss me from PE for the week. The bad news was that I had provided clinching evidence in the mounting case against my weakly feigned heterosexuality. I was bad at sports, which proved to my peers that I was homosexual. At this time and place, that stereotype was accepted as a law of nature. Can’t catch a baseball? Must be into dudes. Most straight adults I know, even the decidedly unathletic ones, have fond memories of youthful hours spent bonding with their beloved teammates. But for bookish gay boys like me, sports were nothing less than a crucible that laid bare the secret we’d strived so pathetically hard to obscure.

It certainly did help that I became aware of both my sexuality and my complete inability to compete in physical activities at roughly the same time. Until middle school, my experience of “physical education” was relatively benign: A middle-aged teacher would take all the boys and girls out to the playground and instruct us to run around or jump rope or whatever. I was not good at running around or jumping rope, but it didn’t matter, as no one cared; the stakes were infinitesimal, and I could get an A-plus so long as I behaved. It wasn’t until sixth grade that PE developed into something more sinister—because suddenly, the boys and girls were segregated into different groups, as though we were wee Olympic trainees.

This sex segregation marooned me from my friends, all of whom were girls, since I found my male peers frightening and mystifying. It also compounded the toxic masculinity and homophobia that were probably innate to any gaggle of male American tweens during the first term of the George W. Bush administration.* As we changed into our “gym clothes” in a cramped locker room, the boys filled the air with Axe and misogyny, crudely objectifying our female classmates like horny little psychopaths. I stood by myself in a corner, silent and aghast, as the boys slandered the girls with whom I played Mancala and made friendship bracelets during lunch.

And now we had to play actual sports every goddamn day: baseball and basketball and flag football and soccer and all variety of games whose rules all the other boys just seemed to know, but that bewildered me. I didn’t mind coming in last every time we ran “the mile” because I had only failed myself. But team sports were brutal because my teammates needed me to do things that we all knew I could not do. They had a primal urge to win these idiotic games—some of them truly had nothing else going for them—and I was an impediment to that achievement. I couldn’t simply fade into the background; my inadequacy actively thwarted their testosterone-fueled ambitions.

Eventually I adopted various methods of avoiding this ignominy. Under an explicit and binding agreement with my parents, all dentist, doctor, and orthodontist appointments were scheduled during the PE hour. A CVS wrist brace I got for a minor sprain was squirreled away in my gym bag for emergencies: I’d slip it on whenever it seemed the dread “shirts and skins” might be employed. And I discovered each coach’s conversational weak spot, coaxing out of these terse, bored men (they were all men) any material I could work with. I hit gold with my eighth-grade coach, a gruff but kindhearted older man with libertarian leanings and a jejune interest in politics. For days on end we chattered about Ross Perot in the corner of the field as my classmates played another mindless round of whatever ball.

What especially frustrated me was that I felt I was fulfilling a stereotype that I deeply wished to buck. By that point, I had more or less made peace with my sexuality, but I had decided, like so many tortured 13-year-olds before me, that I wouldn’t be that kind of gay—the wimp, the pansy, the limp-wristed mincer who betrayed his own sex. Yes, I tried to convey a stereotypically masculine presence to conceal the fact that I holed up in my room every night rewatching covertly recorded VHS tapes of Will & Grace. But I also wanted to demonstrate that if I was gay, I wasn’t a Jack; I was, at worst, a Will, neurotic but recognizable as a man.

All this gender trouble was made more irritating by the asymmetry of my plight. The tomboys and butch girls in my class might occasionally be mocked for a perceived lack of femininity, but they kicked ass in PE. Why, I wondered, did lesbians get to be great at sports, while gay boys feebly flailed about? These are both stereotypes, sure, but many lesbians I know today had distinguished sporting careers as teenagers, and most gay men still recoil at the offer of a pickup basketball game. In fact, I view any such invitation to be a heterosexist microaggression, thank you very much.

In high school, I finally freed myself from the snare of PE, quickly developing a self-confidence that could not have flourished under its daily embarrassments. These days I remain only slightly traumatized by my involuntary exposure to sports that I emphatically could not play. Every once in a while, as I walk my dog through the park, I’ll see a soccer ball roll past me; on the other side of a fence, a kid entreats me to throw it back. I ignore her, as I cannot throw anything. But those little encounters no longer have any effect on my psyche.

More importantly, the stereotype that I embody has been largely jettisoned by American culture, and rightly so. In the age of famous gay Olympians, it feels oddly quaint to discuss my adolescent tales of sporting woe in tandem with my sexual development. The two are not really related, and it seems preposterous in 2018 to assert that my sexual orientation somehow hindered my abilities on the field. I am not bad at sports because I am gay; I just had the misfortune of comporting with a dumb stereotype. If that hastened my coming out, then I am grateful for it. If it didn’t, at least I learned early that when it comes to defining your own sexuality, there’s no actual requirement that you play by everyone else’s rules.

Correction, May 24, 2018: This piece originally mistakenly referred to the George H.W. Bush administration.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3986372&forum_id=2#36126409)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 25th, 2018 1:15 PM
Author: autistic cheese-eating national

Every once in a while, as I walk my dog through the park, I’ll see a soccer ball roll past me; on the other side of a fence, a kid entreats me to throw it back. I ignore her, as I cannot throw anything.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3986372&forum_id=2#36126411)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 25th, 2018 1:16 PM
Author: Slippery Diverse Wrinkle Yarmulke

Why didn't he just practice a little and get better at sports, just like with any other school subject?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3986372&forum_id=2#36126425)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 25th, 2018 1:31 PM
Author: Disturbing death wish center



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3986372&forum_id=2#36126525)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 25th, 2018 3:15 PM
Author: exciting base

You need some guidance--how to get better. If your spazzy and uncoordinated, taking basketball shots for 45 minutes isn't going to make you any better if you don't have enough body awareness to intuit what you are doing wrong.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3986372&forum_id=2#36127241)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 25th, 2018 3:26 PM
Author: Swashbuckling Amethyst Antidepressant Drug Coffee Pot

Cr what he needs is a couple years of ballet

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3986372&forum_id=2#36127323)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 25th, 2018 1:19 PM
Author: Curious soggy stage

Remember: homosexuality is *not* a mental illness

Never forget it citizens

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3986372&forum_id=2#36126452)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 25th, 2018 1:26 PM
Author: Provocative Garnet Stock Car University

Come on xo, that was pretty funny.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3986372&forum_id=2#36126497)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 25th, 2018 1:56 PM
Author: autistic cheese-eating national

agreed he was funny but also revealing. As much as he hates to admit it stereotypes exist for a reason.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3986372&forum_id=2#36126731)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 25th, 2018 1:34 PM
Author: Soul-stirring Kitchen

So this was not written by Michael Sam.

Also this line:

"As we changed into our “gym clothes” in a cramped locker room, the boys filled the air with Axe and misogyny, crudely objectifying our female classmates like horny little psychopaths."

ljlll

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3986372&forum_id=2#36126540)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 25th, 2018 1:35 PM
Author: comical hospital

I'm sure he never had impure thoughts about these boys' cocks in his ass, no sirree

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3986372&forum_id=2#36126550)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 25th, 2018 1:46 PM
Author: Soul-stirring Kitchen

Totally not, neither did I, haha, hahaha

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3986372&forum_id=2#36126648)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 26th, 2018 4:54 AM
Author: Glassy Glittery Associate Partner



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3986372&forum_id=2#36130470)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 25th, 2018 1:39 PM
Author: Swashbuckling Amethyst Antidepressant Drug Coffee Pot

(not aaron rodgers)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3986372&forum_id=2#36126583)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 25th, 2018 1:40 PM
Author: comical hospital



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3986372&forum_id=2#36126595)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 25th, 2018 1:46 PM
Author: fighting yapping orchestra pit



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3986372&forum_id=2#36126640)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 25th, 2018 1:41 PM
Author: Henna liquid oxygen

can't believe i read more than a line of this drivel

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3986372&forum_id=2#36126602)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 25th, 2018 1:42 PM
Author: comical hospital

me too and I can't believe I kept jacking off while reading

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3986372&forum_id=2#36126606)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 25th, 2018 1:49 PM
Author: Henna liquid oxygen



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3986372&forum_id=2#36126676)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 25th, 2018 1:42 PM
Author: Hyperactive heady affirmative action

"I stood by myself in a corner, silent and aghast, as the boys slandered the girls with whom I played Mancala and made friendship bracelets during lunch."

jfc

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3986372&forum_id=2#36126609)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 25th, 2018 1:43 PM
Author: Swashbuckling Amethyst Antidepressant Drug Coffee Pot

sharklasers outted

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3986372&forum_id=2#36126612)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 25th, 2018 1:46 PM
Author: Claret passionate cuckold



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3986372&forum_id=2#36126643)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 25th, 2018 1:49 PM
Author: Henna liquid oxygen



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3986372&forum_id=2#36126677)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 25th, 2018 2:56 PM
Author: Federal ungodly trailer park round eye



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3986372&forum_id=2#36127132)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 25th, 2018 3:02 PM
Author: Flirting opaque theatre sneaky criminal



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3986372&forum_id=2#36127174)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 26th, 2018 3:28 AM
Author: stirring violet jew rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3986372&forum_id=2#36130406)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 25th, 2018 1:43 PM
Author: talented stage

imagine being a JACKED AS FUCK gay man from Ancient Greece, perhaps a member of the Sacred Band, the 100% gay elite infantry unit that was considered the best in Greece...and reading this

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3986372&forum_id=2#36126618)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 25th, 2018 1:51 PM
Author: fighting yapping orchestra pit



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3986372&forum_id=2#36126693)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 25th, 2018 2:04 PM
Author: Indigo Box Office



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3986372&forum_id=2#36126778)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 25th, 2018 2:08 PM
Author: Slippery Diverse Wrinkle Yarmulke

gay?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3986372&forum_id=2#36126808)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 25th, 2018 3:30 PM
Author: stimulating turquoise garrison



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3986372&forum_id=2#36127349)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 26th, 2018 5:07 AM
Author: Aromatic skinny woman ticket booth



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3986372&forum_id=2#36130479)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 25th, 2018 1:49 PM
Author: Free-loading filthpig



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3986372&forum_id=2#36126669)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 25th, 2018 1:52 PM
Author: fighting yapping orchestra pit



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3986372&forum_id=2#36126694)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 25th, 2018 1:53 PM
Author: metal weed whacker

1. >> This sex segregation marooned me from my friends, all of whom were girls, since I found my male peers frightening and mystifying.>>

Perhaps part of the point is to confront things that are uncomfortable and learn from people we find different, right libs?

2. Why should he whine about this anymore than a kid who struggled in math would whine about that?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3986372&forum_id=2#36126702)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 25th, 2018 3:16 PM
Author: Unholy impressive library

do ppl really have gym every single day?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3986372&forum_id=2#36127251)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 25th, 2018 3:33 PM
Author: Dull cuck messiness

(nerd)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3986372&forum_id=2#36127367)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 26th, 2018 2:25 AM
Author: walnut vibrant reading party really tough guy

They did back in the day before everyone became an obese faggot

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3986372&forum_id=2#36130334)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 26th, 2018 1:13 PM
Author: galvanic drunken nibblets

wait, they don't have PE every day anymore?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3986372&forum_id=2#36131615)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 25th, 2018 3:25 PM
Author: Purple famous landscape painting french chef

Expected someone fatter

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/956180044996628485/5yzPQjvB_400x400.jpg

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3986372&forum_id=2#36127318)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 25th, 2018 3:38 PM
Author: nudist double fault pistol

Conversely, I thought he would be scrawnier. If he were a fatty they would have bullied him mercilessly and he would have mentioned it repeatedly.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3986372&forum_id=2#36127383)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 25th, 2018 3:32 PM
Author: Blue church laser beams

"I hit gold with my eighth-grade coach, a gruff but kindhearted older man with libertarian leanings and a jejune interest in politics. For days on end we chattered about Ross Perot in the corner of the field as my classmates played another mindless round of whatever ball."



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3986372&forum_id=2#36127365)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 25th, 2018 3:33 PM
Author: Swashbuckling Amethyst Antidepressant Drug Coffee Pot

LOL I’m sure there’s nothing else going on there

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3986372&forum_id=2#36127368)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 26th, 2018 2:26 AM
Author: walnut vibrant reading party really tough guy

That’s known as “grooming”

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3986372&forum_id=2#36130338)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 26th, 2018 8:19 AM
Author: Mahogany exhilarant mood

*crowbars jejune into prose*

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3986372&forum_id=2#36130637)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 26th, 2018 8:35 AM
Author: amber toilet seat



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3986372&forum_id=2#36130672)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 26th, 2018 3:30 AM
Author: stirring violet jew rehab

American fags drive me insane. My hockey league gets DEMOLISHED bi-monthly by the fucking gay hockey mafia in our city and this Jacksonville queer can't catch a baseball? We need a homocaust.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3986372&forum_id=2#36130408)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 26th, 2018 3:32 AM
Author: out-of-control cracking boistinker

all those limp wristed wrist shots lol

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3986372&forum_id=2#36130412)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 26th, 2018 3:41 AM
Author: stirring violet jew rehab

You jest, but these guys are certified musclestuds. played a game in just jock straps and helmets once.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3986372&forum_id=2#36130418)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 26th, 2018 4:09 AM
Author: out-of-control cracking boistinker



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3986372&forum_id=2#36130442)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 26th, 2018 5:01 AM
Author: out-of-control cracking boistinker

you suggested this i take it?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3986372&forum_id=2#36130473)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 26th, 2018 6:03 AM
Author: stirring violet jew rehab

Let's just say I was playing switch hitter that day

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3986372&forum_id=2#36130511)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 26th, 2018 4:52 AM
Author: embarrassed to the bone irradiated pervert spot

Worked harder than you

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3986372&forum_id=2#36130469)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 26th, 2018 4:54 AM
Author: stirring violet jew rehab

Gonna need a walkthrough of that one, hoss.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3986372&forum_id=2#36130471)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 26th, 2018 4:49 AM
Author: embarrassed to the bone irradiated pervert spot

Probably why he went to harvard and you sweated out tufts

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3986372&forum_id=2#36130468)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 26th, 2018 8:41 AM
Author: chrome public bath

In a healthy Russian ruled society he would be taken out back and shot. Right and proper.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3986372&forum_id=2#36130677)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 26th, 2018 1:17 PM
Author: fragrant hissy fit

next in this hard-hitting series: junior high gym requirements are antisemitic

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3986372&forum_id=2#36131633)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 26th, 2018 1:25 PM
Author: marvelous love of her life old irish cottage

conversely gay chicks were soccer studs

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3986372&forum_id=2#36131664)