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LOL at our profession. Weil will make you partner, then fire you after 3 years
Poast new message in this thread
Date: June 8th, 2018 9:46 AM Author: massive station (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36206668) |
Date: June 8th, 2018 9:49 AM Author: Mind-boggling scourge upon the earth business firm "New partners will be fixed-income rather than equity partners."
So not really partners then. |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 9:49 AM Author: Naked frisky range ceo in other industries, they call them employees (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36206688) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 12:41 PM Author: Pearly lodge Maybe law will one day have the title inflation of banking. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36207787) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 12:53 PM Author: glassy cowardly church building sneaky criminal (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36207910) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 1:03 PM Author: Brass doctorate "Yes, I was a Senior Arch Barrister Shareholder Master Scholar at Kirkland."
"Are you going to go back after taking the bar?" |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 2:18 PM Author: cobalt voyeur (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36208441) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 2:31 PM Author: Hyperactive rehab "Yes, I'll be joining as Visiting Assistant Partner. I'll be on the tenure track after three years." (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36208525) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 4:05 PM Author: Pearly lodge (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36209101) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 8:18 PM Author: slimy galvanic senate electric furnace (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36210231) |
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Date: June 9th, 2018 2:31 AM Author: Learning disabled infuriating dilemma double fault (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36211672) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 2:13 PM Author: Hairless French Chef Gunner (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36208398) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 9:50 AM Author: Hairless French Chef Gunner (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36206694) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 12:39 PM Author: internet-worthy duck-like abode mexican (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36207767) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 12:44 PM Author: frozen antidepressant drug state (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36207801) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 12:44 PM Author: flushed haunting regret (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36207806) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 4:06 PM Author: Nubile yellow trust fund (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36209106) |
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Date: June 11th, 2018 5:37 PM Author: Hyperactive rehab (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36225600) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 9:49 AM Author: Naked frisky range ceo I might not make anywhere near as much as a Weil equity partner, but it sure is nice to be at a small firm where you actually control your own destiny. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36206686) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 9:50 AM Author: massive station (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36206695) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 9:50 AM Author: Hairless French Chef Gunner probably a best case scenario. Nobody wants to hire a "senior associate" or "counsel." But if you're a partner, wow! And they won't know you're getting railroaded out. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36206693) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 9:50 AM Author: massive station (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36206697) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 12:44 PM Author: frozen antidepressant drug state (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36207809) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 9:50 AM Author: costumed cruel-hearted shrine Kirkland Spreads! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36206696) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 9:58 AM Author: mewling pontificating orchestra pit filthpig (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36206742) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 10:00 AM Author: sable kitchen useless brakes Kirkland Shattered the Integrity of the Market. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36206749) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 1:53 PM Author: aromatic rusted hall (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36208270) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 12:38 PM Author: Vivacious stage (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36207755) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 10:00 AM Author: shaky dashing school cafeteria So how do you become an actual equity partner? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36206748) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 10:01 AM Author: flirting french locale background story perfect BJ technique (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36206751) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 10:03 AM Author: sable kitchen useless brakes That's been menonymized to "Ali Watkinsing" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36206758) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 12:38 PM Author: Hyperactive rehab Not anymore, you don't... hehe (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36207763) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 12:45 PM Author: frozen antidepressant drug state (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36207814) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 12:41 PM Author: floppy iridescent office knife I wonder how they will run comp for the non-equity tier.
If the comp is high enough it's not a bad deal. |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 12:43 PM Author: Pearly lodge Just crib other firms' 8th year salaries. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36207798) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 12:49 PM Author: racy sticky death wish it will be exactly the same as an 8th year associate (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36207855) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 12:53 PM Author: floppy iridescent office knife no way. link? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36207906) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 1:38 PM Author: Misunderstood bespoke locus rigor What incentive so they have to pay anything more than that? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36208185) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 1:14 PM Author: sable kitchen useless brakes "If the comp is high enough it's not a bad deal." Does this really need to be said? |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 1:16 PM Author: floppy iridescent office knife It does.
If a Weil senior is making X and a Weil 1st year equity partner assuming 1 tier is making Y, how bad this is is purely a function of where the non-equity comp lies.
What we all agree is bullshit is the subgroup of people who are being made "counsel" who would have normally just been promoted to partner. |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 12:43 PM Author: Vermilion reading party house I remember pronouncing it “whale” at a cocktail reception and the shrew midlevel giggled and corrected Me. Completely turned me off and I took them offf my bidlist (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36207799) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 2:22 PM Author: Ivory gas station how is it pronounced? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36208468) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 2:30 PM Author: Vermilion reading party house “While” (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36208518) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 2:31 PM Author: Brass doctorate While, goat cheese, and mangey (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36208526) |
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Date: June 9th, 2018 12:37 AM Author: Razzle nursing home alpha While, Goatse, and Mang (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36211358) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 5:23 PM Author: Hyperactive rehab Vile (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36209563) |
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Date: June 9th, 2018 12:03 AM Author: fiercely-loyal trump supporter hospital i pronounced it "wheel" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36211198) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 12:44 PM Author: Vivacious stage One of the "Big Trends" in biglaw for the past decade and one of the keys to rising PPP. Dollars to donuts that "out after three years of non-equity" will be softened in the coming years and you'll see an almost indistinguishable blend between the "special of counsel" and the more senior non-equity. This is like an opiate for firm partnerships--once they realize they can retain people forever without ever quite giving them the actual brass ring (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36207802) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 12:49 PM Author: racy sticky death wish (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36207864) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 12:52 PM Author: floppy iridescent office knife Doesn't it truly depend on how they run the non-equity tier though wrt comp?
My understanding is that this is done in part to boost PPP reporting, since non-equity partners don't count for that measurement.
Very rarely will a brand new partner have the type of business that will get them above the lowest rungs of partnership comp anyway, so if a new Weil partner is making $800k per year for a few years, and then builds a book and starts ticking up into the 7 figures and becomes equity, that's not so bad.
The counsel though is kinda bullshit since it will likely effectively just delay partnership for most people eligible. |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 12:56 PM Author: big temple The special of counsel thing didn't sound like partnership-track thing to me. More like for people that have a specific niche in a tax area or ERISA or whatever and are important to have around, but will never have their own book. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36207931) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 12:58 PM Author: floppy iridescent office knife my mistake i meant counsel (but excepting the ones in niche groups) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36207949) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 1:06 PM Author: Vivacious stage I think the idea that non-equity partnerships are created to game PPP numbers is overstated. That may be some indirect effect but that isn't the primary purpose of these structures. They're deigned to elongate or even permanently stall the path to actual equity partnership for young(ish) attorneys while still allowing the firm to reap the rewards of the attorneys': (1) experience; (2) high billing rates. It's gravy to the firm because they get to keep Joe 9th year / 11th year / 13th year humming along, running cases, billing out at $950 per hour without needing to take the "hit" of bringing him into the actual partnership in the sense of sharing its profits. You see these non-equity / permanent of-counsel cohorts growing across the V25.
There are differing takes on the pros-cons of this. You'll hear an argument from firms that do this that they're offering Joe an opportunity to stay on and continue to make his $300k, $400k, $500k for a long time without being pushed out. (This argument usually conveniently omits the fact that Joe is reaping tremendous profit for the firm throughout his tenure in a way that is almost singular across the attorney cohort there since they gain the benefit of Joe's seniority vis-a-vis management expertise and billing rates (something you can't get with juniors) without having to take the hit of actual equity-level compensation.) The counter-argument is that, historically, the lack of this permanent purgatory position would force firms to ante up when it came time for promotion: "You like Joe? Well, then you fucking pay for Joe as a true member of the partnership. You want his expertise and his billable rate and the client relationships he's fostered? You equitize him." Simplifying the camps but that's the gist.
There's a chicken-egg issue to all of this. This scheme has advanced the profits per partner of firms within the Vault. At the same time, one of the reasons there is increasing reticence to promote to equity is exactly because of this rising profit that is being experienced in the industry. The gap between what senior associates are compensated at versus what equity partners are being compensated at has been rising which, all else being equal, has had the effect of increasing the "hurt" that firms experience when they elevate someone into equity. Which in turn makes them less likely to want to promote someone to equity and to prefer these sort of alternative structures. Which in turn continues to contribute to rising profits. Which in turn further widens the compensation gulf. Etc. It becomes a self-fullfilling cycle--"Joe, we'd love to make you a partner but it's getting increasingly tough to justify the business case ...."
What Weil is doing is a combination of the pure play described above (the special "of counsel") plus a softer version of it (extending out the associate's path to partnership). The bottom line is that this is a play to keep senior people with the firm longer without having to pay them equity-level comp. |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 1:13 PM Author: floppy iridescent office knife I do not disagree with any of that, but in my mind the effect this has on senior associates who are elected to non-equity partner is a function of how much they are paid within that non-equity tier. Obviously the closer to senior associate comp the far worse of a deal it is. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36208039) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 1:18 PM Author: Vivacious stage I'm not sitting on the "Big Book of Biglaw Compensation" but anecdotally, from talking with people who have dealt with this, "non-equity" partners are being compensated at or near the same scale that equivalent senior associates are at. It's a myth that "non-equity" = "more money." What you will see is that there's more play within the bonus structure with the up and coming non-equities getting much more substantial bonuses as a sort of soft entry into the actual partnership / signal that "you're on your way" and those on the way out getting far less than scale. Young of-counsel / non-equity are not getting a better compensation deal. They're just getting retitled.
The only exception to this is old-style of counsel who are actually of counsel for a reason. Meaning the guys who are 40, 50, 60 years old and have carved out their own arrangement as sort of a quasi-equity partner without being bought in. But that's not what we're dealing with here these are 35-year-old attorneys suddenly being called "of counsel" so they can be kept on a shelf for briefwriting and project management for the next 30 years while being billed out at $1k |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 1:52 PM Author: Provocative Gay Wizard Scholarship (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36208265) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 1:00 PM Author: shaky dashing school cafeteria At some point, will law firms ever just organize themselves as regular corporations with various levels of employees, who may get awarded shares from time to time, rather than as traditional partnerships? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36207960) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 1:15 PM Author: big temple I think a lot of states' rules of professional conduct prohibit non-lawyers from holding equity in a firm. You'd essentially end up in the same place. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36208059) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 1:19 PM Author: Razzle-dazzle useless address Most law firms in NY at least are PCs or PLLCs. LPs have been going out of fashion for decades. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36208073) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 1:37 PM Author: Alcoholic base You're an idiot and demonstrably wrong about biglaw firms. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36208177) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 1:44 PM Author: Razzle-dazzle useless address I didnt say anything about biglaw. LPs are a biglaw thing because biglaw firms are ancient and no one is going to rewrite a 100 year old LP agreement just cause. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36208213) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 1:45 PM Author: Alcoholic base This thread is about biglaw. So fuck off you dumb compliance ape. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36208223) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 1:46 PM Author: big temple lol at how utterly retarded and wrong you are about this (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36208230) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 1:44 PM Author: big temple (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36208214) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 1:46 PM Author: big temple yep, look at how many PCs and PLLCs there are on this list
*blank stare*
http://www.vault.com/company-rankings/law/vault-law-100 |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 4:13 PM Author: Pearly lodge I wonder why no one, particularly among the newer mergers, has gone the LLC/PLLC route. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36209144) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 1:30 PM Author: Vivacious stage Others are pointing out the regulatory / legal hurdles to this but I think your basic microeconomic intuition is right--the general trend is that the biglaw model is becoming less unique / special / distinct from an ordinary corporation and more like a working corporation. But the one important countervailing factor is that there is still a controlling cohort at the top of these firms (actual equity partners) who want to make a lot of money. And I don't necessarily know if a pure corporate structure would allow that to happen, right? Your typical large company is much more pyramidal than even a biglaw firm, with only a relatively small number of people making outsized compensation. The biglaw model is still much more skew in the distribution as far as where the modal / median compensation points are, because you have a lot of people expecting to make 7-figure income and then another lot of people expecting to make mid- 6-figure income (per the discussion ITT re the "permanent non-equity" partner). The model is definitely in flux right now it's an interesting time to be observing the industry. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36208132) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 1:40 PM Author: Vermilion reading party house Very interesting. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36208195) |
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Date: June 9th, 2018 12:26 AM Author: passionate fuchsia police squad left skew (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36211310) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 7:35 PM Author: pink legal warrant stead This is agaIsn’t the ethics rules. Can’t work for a non-attorney (I.e. a corporation) unless it is your sole client I thInk. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36210083) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 1:13 PM Author: odious crystalline bbw Haha boomers are killing it (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36208044) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 1:37 PM Author: Alcoholic base The thought of a 7.5 year associate making partner at a V10 makes me laugh my head off, unless they change the definition of partner. Which I think is what Weil is doing. (My understanding is that new partners at most "single track" firms like Weil are generally up for equity after 3 years, but are not forced to leave if they don't get it.) I imagine they would love to make people income partners at 7.5 years-- making them pay a buy in and start paying for their own insurance--only to stiff them on equity in 3 years.
The reality is that 10 years in biglaw won't give you the skills you need to be an equity partner at a V10, but that there are plenty of 10 year+ associates who can run cases and make money for the firm. Firms realized they would make more money keeping these people around and just stiffing them on equity rather than firing them because of some made up "up or out" policy. But it'll be interesting to see if these people can flee once they have an inflated title.
Yet again, boomers pull the ladder up behind them. |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 2:16 PM Author: Hairless French Chef Gunner The reality is that 10 years in biglaw won't give you the skills you need to be an equity partner at a V10,
So why did firms only discover this fact in 2000? |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 5:05 PM Author: Alcoholic base This changed gradually over time. Law firms (especially the V10) have increasingly relied on leverage (meaning more associates billing for each partner on a matter, not debt). The kinds of cases that have good leverage are huge M&A deals, antitrust cases, mega bankruptcies, or bet-the-company patent or securities litigation, which a 35 year old 10th year associate is not going to win from a boomer client. This shift was gradual since the 80s, but it especially took off in 2008 and the rebound from the financial crisis. The crisis/recovery caused a lot of clients to downgrade their more run of the mill matters to cheaper firms. So the potential clients/matters that a 8th-10th year associate might have been able to use to develop his or her book are no longer really an option based on the billing rates V10s charge. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36209431) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 4:14 PM Author: Pearly lodge "10 years in biglaw won't give you the skills you need to be an equity partner at a V10"
Which skills do they lack? |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 5:05 PM Author: Alcoholic base see above - ability to win business from firms willing to pay $500 per hour for a 1st year associate and $1,000 for a 10th year.
the approval process for the type of matters v10 firms handle is in the hands of boomers only, and a few ambitious gen x sellouts. Millenials don't have a fucking chance to win any of this business. |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 11:43 PM Author: Burgundy godawful plaza So they don’t lack any “skills,” just the connections to land the biz. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36211135) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 11:52 PM Author: Alcoholic base The skill necessary to land the business is being 59 and having done this twice before from a senior leadership role. So yes, they lack that. Are you a retard or something? Do you even biglaw? Does this not make sense to you? Do you think the GC at Purdue pharma is waking up in the middle of the night trying to remember the name of the 8th year associate who attended a lecture he gave 6 months ago so he can refer him a new $10M billable matter? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36211163) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 1:45 PM Author: Jade tanning salon degenerate “Our”
Your. |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 2:10 PM Author: heady clear famous landscape painting library someone explain why you have to contribute money when you become partner. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36208371) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 2:14 PM Author: aromatic rusted hall Normally or now? Because now this is bullshit. Normally the partners contribute capital for the enterprise, I.e., rent and Jan-June expenses. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36208408) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 3:38 PM Author: massive station Because you have to buy into the partnership. Plus loan the operating expenses while they drain that shit at the end of the year. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36208927) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 3:42 PM Author: sable kitchen useless brakes Shares are accounting fiction. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36208966) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 4:20 PM Author: Pearly lodge http://www.abajournal.com/magazine/article/firms_raise_partners_contributions_delay_payback (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3996940&forum_id=2#36209183) |
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Date: June 8th, 2018 4:46 PM Author: floppy iridescent office knife B. McLeod said:
Well, this may be happening at some law firms, but I seriously doubt there are any payback delays at MoFo, which is so well known for timely partner payback that its name is virtually synonymous with payback. I won’t even venture to guess as to how many time I have heard colleagues, as well as people in innumerable other lines of work, express the well-known axiom, “MoFo is payback” (or words to that same effect).
Posted: Apr 28, 2014 11:04 pm CDT |