personally i think he rates higher than someone like Bruce Springsteen

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4000754&forum_id=2#36235090)

Elvis?

Sinatra?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4000754&forum_id=2#36235120)

xo phil ochs >>>>>>> bob fucking dylan

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4000754&forum_id=2#36235821)

got black out drunk and kicked out after trying to fight some cops, pretty fucking long island experience.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4000754&forum_id=2#36235222)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4000754&forum_id=2#36235375)

Could see an argument for 10-20 in the category of classic rock.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4000754&forum_id=2#36235482)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Songs_written_by_Billy_Joel

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4000754&forum_id=2#36237270)

The Worst Pop Singer Ever

Why, exactly, is Billy Joel so bad?

By RON ROSENBAUM

JAN 23, 20097:23 PM

This may seem an odd moment to bring up the subject of Billy Joel. But the recent death of the painter Andrew Wyeth revived a long-standing debate over whether his art is respectable or merely sentimental schlock. (Say it: good or bad?) It got me to thinking about the question of value in art and whether there are any absolute standards for judging it. It indicates the question is still alive, not relegated to irrelevance by relativism.

And then I picked up The Art Instinct, a new book by Denis Dutton, the curator of the Arts & Letters Daily Web site. The book strives valiantly to find a basis for judging the value of art from the perspective of evolutionary psychology; in it, Dutton argues that a certain kind of artistic talent offered a competitive advantage in the Darwinian struggle for survival.

Which brings me to Billy Joel—the Andrew Wyeth of contemporary pop music—and the continuing irritation I feel whenever I hear his tunes, whether in the original or in the multitude of elevator-Muzak versions. It is a kind of mystery: Why does his music make my skin crawl in a way that other bad music doesn’t? Why is it that so many of us feel it is possible to say Billy Joel is—well—just bad, a blight upon pop music, a plague upon the airwaves more contagious than West Nile virus, a dire threat to the peacefulness of any given elevator ride, not rock ’n’ roll but schlock ‘n’ roll?

I’m reluctant to pick on Billy Joel. He’s been subject to withering contempt from hipster types for so long that it no longer seems worth the time. Still, the mystery persists: How can he be so bad and yet so popular for so long? He’s still there. You can’t defend yourself with anti-B.J. shields around your brain. He still takes up the space, takes up A&R advances that would otherwise support a score of unrecognized but genuinely talented artists, singers, and songwriters, with his loathsomely insipid simulacrum of rock.

Besides, some people still take Billy seriously. Just the other day I was reading my old friend Jeff Jarvis’ BuzzMachine blog, and Jarvis (the Billy Joel of blog theorists) was attacking the Times’ David Carr. (Talk about an uneven fight.) Carr was speculating about whether newspapers could survive if they adopted the economic model of iTunes. Attempting a snotty put-down of this idea, Jarvis let slip that he’s a Joel fan: As an example somehow of his iTunes counter-theory, he wrote: “If I can’t get Allentown, the original, I’m not likely to settle for a cover.” Only the hard-core B.J. for Jeff! (“Allentown” is a particularly shameless selection on Jarvis’ part, since it’s one of B.J.’s “concern” songs, featuring the plight of laid-off workers, and Jarvis virtually does a sack dance of self-congratulatory joy every time he reports on print-media workers getting the ax.)

Plus, there’s always the chance we’ll see another of those “career re-evaluation” essays that places like the New York Times Sunday “Arts & Leisure” section are fond of running about the Barry Manilows of the world. The kind of piece in which we’d discover that Billy’s actually “gritty,” “unfairly marginalized” by hipsters; that his work is profoundly expressive of late-20th-century alienation (“Captain Jack”); that his hackneyed, misogynist hymns to love are actually filled with sophisticated erotic angst; that his “distillations of disillusion,” to use the patois of such pieces, over the artist’s role (“Piano Man,” “The Entertainer,” “Say Goodbye to Hollywood,” etc.) are in fact “preternaturally self-conscious,” not just shallow, Holden Caulfield-esque denunciations of “phonies,” but mentionable in the same breath as works by great artists.

This must be prevented! No career re-evaluations please! No false contrarian rehabilitations! He was terrible, he is terrible, he always will be terrible. Anodyne, sappy, superficial, derivative, fraudulently rebellious. Joel’s famous song “It’s Still Rock and Roll to Me”? Please. It never was rock ’n’ roll. Billy Joel’s music elevates self-aggrandizing self-pity and contempt for others into its own new and awful genre: “Mock-Rock.”

And the badness of really bad art is, I believe, always worth affirming, since it allows us to praise—and to examine why we praise—”good” or “great” art.

Therefore, I decided to make a serious effort to identify the consistent qualities across Joel’s “body of work” (it almost hurts to write that) that make it so meretricious, so fraudulent, so pitifully bad. And so, risking humiliation and embarrassment, I ventured to the Barnes & Noble music section and bought a four-disc set of B.J.’s “Greatest Hits,” one of which was a full disc of his musings about art and music. I must admit that I also bought a copy of an album I already had—Return of the Grievous Angel, covers of Gram Parsons songs by the likes of the Cowboy Junkies and Gillian Welch, whose “Hickory Wind” is just ravishing—so the cashier might think the B.J. box was merely a gift, maybe for someone with no musical taste. Yes, reader. I couldn’t bear the sneer, even for your benefit.

And I think I’ve done it! I think I’ve identified the qualities in B.J.’s work that distinguish his badness from other kinds of badness: It exhibits unearned contempt. Both a self-righteous contempt for others and the self-approbation and self-congratulation that is contempt’s backside, so to speak. Most frequently a contempt for the supposed phoniness or inauthenticity of other people as opposed to the rock-solid authenticity of our B.J.

I’m not saying, by the way, that contempt can’t make for great art. Dylan’s “Positively 4th Street,” for example, is one of the most contemptuous songs ever written, but it redeems itself through the joyfulness of its black-humored eloquence and wit. And Springsteen lost something when he lost his contempt and became a love-for-the-common-people would-be Woody Guthrie.

But let’s go through the “greatest hits” chronologically and see how this “contempt thesis” works out.

First let’s take “Piano Man.” You can hear Joel’s contempt, both for the losers at the bar he’s left behind in his stellar schlock stardom and for the “entertainer-loser” (the proto-B.J.) who plays for them. Even the self-contempt he imputes to the “piano man” rings false.

“Captain Jack”: Loser dresses up in poseur clothes and masturbates and shoots up heroin and is an all-around phony in the eyes of the songwriter who is so, so superior to him.

“The Entertainer”: Entertainers are phonies! Except exquisitely self-aware entertainers like B.J., who let you in on this secret.

(Compare The Band’s beautiful, subtle tribute to Dylan’s entertainer insecurities in “Stage Fright.” I love the line in that song, “he got caught in the spotlight”: such a haunting image of a shy entertainer.)

“Say Goodbye to Hollywood.” Hollywood is phony! Who knew? God, doesn’t B.J. ever get tired of showing us how phony the phonies of this phony world are? Could someone let B.J. know he’s phoning it in with all this phoniness at this point? Isn’t there something, well, a bit phony about his hysteria over phoniness?

He can’t even celebrate his “New York State of Mind” without displaying his oh-so-rebellious contempt for “the movie stars in their fancy cars and their limousines.” You think Billy Joel has really never ridden in a limo?

“The Stranger“: This is B.J. lifting that great Beatles line about Eleanor Rigby “wearing the face that she keeps in a jar by the door.”* You should see the heavy-handed mask featured on the expensive two-disc “legacy” reissue of “The Stranger” album. So deep! Yes, B.J., you’ve nailed it: We’re all phonies hiding our true faces! Everyone wears a mask! Who woulda known it without B.J. to tell us?

“Scenes From an Italian Restaurant”: I can’t stand it, but at least this is one of B.J.’s tributes to “the little people” that—although it’s annoying and clichéd to the max—doesn’t completely hold its characters in contempt.

“Anthony’s Song”—straight up contempt for lower-middle-class aspirations. B.J.’s down with the authentic stuff in life. This is the one with the line about the “heart attack-ack-ack” where he attack-ack-acks people who work two jobs so they can “trade in their Chevy for a Cadillac”-ack-ack, something B.J. would never do. No phony “movin’ up” for him!

“Only the Good Die Young”: Contempt for the Catholic religion. I know: It’s spirited if anti-spiritual, but, still … I’ve heard some Catholic girls opine on its most famous line (“Catholic girls start much too late”), and they ain’t buyin’ it. B.J. is no James Joyce.

“She’s Always a Woman”: First, has there ever been a more blatant—or blatantly inept—case of attempted artistic theft than “She’s Always a Woman”? It’s such a lame imitation of Bob Dylan’s “Just Like a Woman.” (B.J.’s woman “hides like a child” where Dylan’s “breaks just like a little girl.”) B.J.’s woman also: is prone to “casual lies,” “steals like a thief,” “takes care of herself,” and “carelessly cuts you and laughs …” Poor B.J., recycling every misogynist cliché in the book.

At this point, reader, perhaps you have some questions for me about this tirade? Fair enough.

What right do you have to criticize such a popular artist? Aren’t you just being elitist?

No, you don’t understand: Billy’s from my ‘hood, mid-Long Island—Hicksville, to be precise (I’m from Bay Shore)—so I’m sensitive to his abuse of our common roots. Once I wrote something about the curse of being from the Guyland. In it I said something heartfelt: New Jersey may have a rep as a toxic dump for mob victims to fester in, but at least it brought forth Bruce Springsteen. The ultimate Guyland humiliation is to be repped to the world by Billy Joel. So I feel entitled to be cruel—may I continue?

OK. But isn’t there anything you like?

Fair question. I’ve always liked “The Longest Time” and “An Innocent Man.” May I get back to the contemptible crap?

OK, but focus.

Well, I really can’t stand the “man of the people” stuff. Like “Allentown” and “The Downeaster ‘Alexa.’ ” Yeah, he’s a real working man, that B.J. Sure, other artists strike that pose, but somehow with B.J. the strain of his pretension is just too much to bear.

What else? What if you had to choose one song as the epitome of B.J. badness?

OK, I think it would have to be “It’s Still Rock and Roll to Me.”

Why?

It shows how completely, totally clueless Billy Joel is. It suggests he wrote it because he thought people regarded him as an outmoded relic because he doesn’t wear the right hip-signifier clothes. That it’s a matter of his wide ties vs. New Wave skinny ties, that it’s because his car doesn’t have white-wall tires or because he doesn’t dress “like a Beau Brummell” or hang out with the right crowd or look like Elvis Costello.

He thinks people can’t stand him because he dresses wrong or doesn’t look right.

Billy Joel, they can’t stand you because of your music; because of your stupid, smug attitude; because of the way you ripped off your betters to produce music that rarely reaches the level even of mediocrity. You could dress completely au courant and people would still loathe your lame lyrics.

It’s not that they dislike anything exterior about you. They dislike you because of who you really are inside. They dislike you for being you. At a certain point, consistent, aggressive badness justifies profound hostility. They hate you just the way you are.

Correction, Jan. 26, 2009: Due to an editorial error, this piece originally misquoted a line from Eleanor Rigby. (Return to the corrected sentence.)

https://slate.com/human-interest/2009/01/the-awfulness-of-billy-joel-explained.html

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4000754&forum_id=2#36970194)

�Yes, reader. I couldn�t bear the sneer, even for your benefit.�

What a fucking self-important pussy.

-

�And I think I�ve done it! I think I�ve identified the qualities in B.J.�s work that distinguish his badness from other kinds of badness: It exhibits unearned contempt. Both a self-righteous contempt for others and the self-approbation and self-congratulation that is contempt�s backside, so to speak. Most frequently a contempt for the supposed phoniness or inauthenticity of other people as opposed to the rock-solid authenticity of our B.J.�

What the fuck does this faggot think qualifies as earned contempt? This is nothing more than word salad for �I don�t like your music, so your condescension is somehow less meritorious than someone else�s.� Moreover, there are a shit ton of misanthropes in the world who relate to contempt; just because Ron Rosenbaum isn�t one doesn�t make his opinion more substantive.

-

�I�m not saying, by the way, that contempt can�t make for great art. Dylan�s �Positively 4th Street,� for example, is one of the most contemptuous songs ever written, but it redeems itself through the joyfulness of its black-humored eloquence and wit. And Springsteen lost something when he lost his contempt and became a love-for-the-common-people would-be Woody Guthrie.�

Translation: �Other singers I like more make great contemptuous music, this is somehow different and �unearned� because I don�t like the music.� What the fuck distinguishes �Positively 4th Street� from �Captain Jack� other than first vs. third person usage? What Dylan has in eloquence, he lacks in relatability; �Movin� Out� and �Captain Jack� are eminently relatable. Losing contempt for the common people is a bad thing for Springsteen, but that contempt is somehow a problem for Billy Joel how? How the fuck do they substantively differ?

-

�But let�s go through the �greatest hits� chronologically and see how this �contempt thesis� works out. First let�s take �Piano Man.� You can hear Joel�s contempt, both for the losers at the bar he�s left behind in his stellar schlock stardom and for the �entertainer-loser� (the proto-B.J.) who plays for them. Even the self-contempt he imputes to the �piano man� rings false.�

First, the implication that you can�t realistically depict people as losers without being unduly contemptuous is fucking retarded; in the real world outside of whatever ivory tower Ron Rosenbaum lives in, plenty of bar regulars ARE lonely; how is the portrayal of that contemptuous? Second, I�d love a tangible explanation of how this faggot can differentiate between �real� and �false� contempt in a fucking song, because he damn well isn�t referencing any real indicators of authorial intent.

-

��Captain Jack�: Loser dresses up in poseur clothes and masturbates and shoots up heroin and is an all-around phony in the eyes of the songwriter who is so, so superior to him.�

Spoken like someone who has never been depressed, and who also can�t fucking read the lyrics to the song. I�ve been depressed for about a six month span, so I don�t have extensive experience with it, but �Captain Jack� absolutely epitomizes that time. Furthermore, the song isn�t about phoniness except inasmuch as it�s about wasting your life and trying (and failing) to find meaning in �being cool,� in spite of which everything still feels fuckin empty. That�s relatable as fuck.

-

��The Entertainer�: Entertainers are phonies! Except exquisitely self-aware entertainers like B.J., who let you in on this secret.�

Missing the fucking point of a song seems to be a pattern here; the point is not that he�s somehow above this, but that entertainment is a business, and entertainers are at the mercy of consumers. The �self-awareness� bit, imputing some sort of self-righteousness to Billy Joel, is bullshit from somebody looking to fill a word count.

-

�(Compare The Band�s beautiful, subtle tribute to Dylan�s entertainer insecurities in �Stage Fright.� I love the line in that song, �he got caught in the spotlight�: such a haunting image of a shy entertainer.)�

These songs are about completely different things � one is about how music is an industry that will chew you up, spit you out, and forget you; the other is about addiction to / insecurities about performing. This is a retarded comparison.

-

��Say Goodbye to Hollywood.� Hollywood is phony! Who knew? God, doesn�t B.J. ever get tired of showing us how phony the phonies of this phony world are? Could someone let B.J. know he�s phoning it in with all this phoniness at this point? Isn�t there something, well, a bit phony about his hysteria over phoniness?�

This isn�t an argument. Yes, the song makes a point people already know / agree with; so do millions of other songs, and I doubt Ronny hates them all. The rest of this is just incoherent, irate ramblings with no support � what makes B.J. in some way uniquely phony? Not a single warrant has been given, and this entire damn article is just begging the question; he literally opens this section by saying �let�s assume my contempt thesis is right� and then fails to give any good examples from the songs he references. This isn�t persuasive to anyone who�s actually heard the damn songs.

-

�He can�t even celebrate his �New York State of Mind� without displaying his oh-so-rebellious contempt for �the movie stars in their fancy cars and their limousines.� You think Billy Joel has really never ridden in a limo?�

Another example of Ron Rosenbaum not knowing what he�s talking about. The song was literally written after he took a greyhound along the Hudson after leaving L.A. Given the way he�s bitched about how much Hollywood sucked, it�s fair to say he was legitimately disenchanted with that type of lifestyle, at least at the time. This becomes doubly true when Ronny fails to give any actual evidence otherwise.

-

��The Stranger�: This is B.J. lifting that great Beatles line about Eleanor Rigby �wearing the face that she keeps in a jar by the door.�* You should see the heavy-handed mask featured on the expensive two-disc �legacy� reissue of �The Stranger� album. So deep! Yes, B.J., you�ve nailed it: We�re all phonies hiding our true faces! Everyone wears a mask! Who woulda known it without B.J. to tell us?�

The Beatles� �Eleanor Rigby� is �great,� but somehow a song saying virtually the same thing is heavy-handed and derided for being too obvious? This is one of the least compelling arguments I�ve ever seen � not a single word in the above paragraph actually supports the thesis of contempt, and none of it is an actual argument; all of it could be summed up as �duh� and that has no bearing on the song�s quality � there are plenty of good songs that say obvious things and yet retain their claim to quality.

-

��Scenes From an Italian Restaurant�: I can�t stand it, but at least this is one of B.J.�s tributes to �the little people� that�although it�s annoying and clichéd to the max�doesn�t completely hold its characters in contempt.�

Translation: �This song so obviously doesn�t support my argument that I can�t try to pigeonhole it the way I have the others. Instead, I�ll try to discredit it another way � I personally dislike it so that makes it bad!�

-

��Anthony�s Song��straight up contempt for lower-middle-class aspirations. B.J.�s down with the authentic stuff in life. This is the one with the line about the �heart attack-ack-ack� where he attack-ack-acks people who work two jobs so they can �trade in their Chevy for a Cadillac�-ack-ack, something B.J. would never do. No phony �movin� up� for him!�

There are two reasons this may be the dumbest take yet. First, WHO THE FUCK THINKS HAVING HIGHER ASPIRATIONS IS BAD? Who the fuck wasn�t or can�t think of teenagers and kids in their 20�s wanting to do better than their parents or those in their neighborhood? I damn sure do, and fucking anybody else I know who grew up relatively poor does/did too. Second, that�s not even the fucking point of the song � the point of the song is that wagecucking yourself to death is bullshit.

-

��Only the Good Die Young�: Contempt for the Catholic religion. I know: It�s spirited if anti-spiritual, but, still � I�ve heard some Catholic girls opine on its most famous line (�Catholic girls start much too late�), and they ain�t buyin� it. B.J. is no James Joyce.�

I don�t even fucking know what the point is that Rosenbaum is trying to make here. If that irreverence when trying to get laid as a high-schooler is low-brow, while he�s not wholly wrong, it�s also universal to high school, and a plethora of other well-regarded music; this isn�t a reason that the music is bad, and in fact is a reason it�s good � it encapsulates a period of time in plenty of people�s lives. If that some Catholic girls start plenty early, fucking so what? There are some who don�t, and even if that weren�t true, factchecking a rock song regarding the frequency of teenage sex among Catholic girls is laughable.

-

��She�s Always a Woman�: First, has there ever been a more blatant�or blatantly inept�case of attempted artistic theft than �She�s Always a Woman�? It�s such a lame imitation of Bob Dylan�s �Just Like a Woman.� (B.J.�s woman �hides like a child� where Dylan�s �breaks just like a little girl.�) B.J.�s woman also: is prone to �casual lies,� �steals like a thief,� �takes care of herself,� and �carelessly cuts you and laughs �� Poor B.J., recycling every misogynist cliché in the book.�

While the points about him ripping of Dylan are actually potentially legitimate, they don�t diminish the quality of �She�s Always a Woman.� Second, L J L, who fucking cares about �misogyny.� Absolute logically vacant, virtue-signaling drivel to see any negative portrayal of women as evidence of sexism, and honestly, he could be a million times more misogynistic than this bitch claims and I wouldn�t care. Hell, I might like him more.

-

�At this point, reader, perhaps you have some questions for me about this tirade? Fair enough.

What right do you have to criticize such a popular artist? Aren�t you just being elitist? No, you don�t understand: Billy�s from my �hood, mid-Long Island�Hicksville, to be precise (I�m from Bay Shore)�so I�m sensitive to his abuse of our common roots. Once I wrote something about the curse of being from the Guyland. In it I said something heartfelt: New Jersey may have a rep as a toxic dump for mob victims to fester in, but at least it brought forth Bruce Springsteen. The ultimate Guyland humiliation is to be repped to the world by Billy Joel. So I feel entitled to be cruel�may I continue?�

Being from the same neighborhood doesn�t immunize you from elitism, it makes you another garden-variety hipster faggot that you mention earlier in the article. Moreover, what�s the tangible difference in Springsteen and Joel? Only difference I can see is that one is now a liberal cuck. And what kind of utter pussy must you be to consider representation of your neighborhood by a musician to be the ultimate humiliation? Or the preceding �argument� cruel? You melodramatic bitch.

-

�OK. But isn�t there anything you like? Fair question. I�ve always liked �The Longest Time� and �An Innocent Man.� May I get back to the contemptible crap?�

What differentiates those from all of these imaginary ills that are supposedly in the other songs?

-

�Well, I really can�t stand the �man of the people� stuff. Like �Allentown� and �The Downeaster �Alexa.� � Yeah, he�s a real working man, that B.J. Sure, other artists strike that pose, but somehow with B.J. the strain of his pretension is just too much to bear.�

How many goddamn begging-the-question times is this assertion of especial pretension or phoniness going to be made without any actual support or examples?

-

�What else? What if you had to choose one song as the epitome of B.J. badness? OK, I think it would have to be �It�s Still Rock and Roll to Me.� Why? It shows how completely, totally clueless Billy Joel is. It suggests he wrote it because he thought people regarded him as an outmoded relic because he doesn�t wear the right hip-signifier clothes. That it�s a matter of his wide ties vs. New Wave skinny ties, that it�s because his car doesn�t have white-wall tires or because he doesn�t dress �like a Beau Brummell� or hang out with the right crowd or look like Elvis Costello. He thinks people can�t stand him because he dresses wrong or doesn�t look right.

Billy Joel, they can�t stand you because of your music; because of your stupid, smug attitude; because of the way you ripped off your betters to produce music that rarely reaches the level even of mediocrity. You could dress completely au courant and people would still loathe your lame lyrics.�

Huh, yet another assertion vomit without any warrants (bad music, smug attitude). The single argument that has any support in this piece, is ripping of Dylan�s �Just Like a Woman,� and that�s not only not conclusive, it�s a single example and isn�t enough to characterize him as bad.

-

�It�s not that they dislike anything exterior about you. They dislike you because of who you really are inside. They dislike you for being you. At a certain point, consistent, aggressive badness justifies profound hostility. They hate you just the way you are.�

How fucking stupid do you have to be to make so many attacks and provide one good example in an entire fucking article? This shitshow goatfuck of an article provided no good examples of him being vile and this non-argument at the end doesn�t support the claim about his music being bad. This was utter fucking drivel written by someone who could only have graduated with a degree in gender studies or some shit.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4000754&forum_id=2#36970772)

Dylan, Elvis, Chuck Berry, Hendrix, James Brown, Little Richard, Aretha, Ray Charles, The Beach Boys, Buddy Holly, Stevie Wonder, Sam Cooke, Muddy Waters, Marvin Gaye, The Velvet Underground, Bo Diddley, Otis Redding, Bruce Springsteen, Jerry Lee Lewis, Fats Domino, Prince, Nirvana, Johnny Cash, Smokey Robinson, The Everly Brothers, Neil Young, Michael Jackson, Madonna, Roy Orbison, Simon and Garfunkel, The Doors, Sly and the Family Stone, Public Enemy, The Byrds, Janis Joplin, Patti Smith, Run-DMC, The Band, The Allman Brothers Band, Howlin’ Wolf, Dr. Dre, Grateful Dead, Parliament and Funkadelic, Aerosmith, Metallica, Joni Mitchell, Tina Turner, Al Green, The Temptations, Jackie Wilson, Frank Zappa, Hank Williams, Eagles, The Shirelles, Beastie Boys, The Stooges, The Four Tops, The Drifters, Creedence Clearwater Revival, Eminem, James Taylor, Tupac Shakur, Jay-Z, Tom Petty, Guns n’ Roses, Booker T. and the MGs, Nine Inch Nails, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Diana Ross and the Supremes, R.E.M., Curtis Mayfield, Carl Perkins, Talking Heads.

This doesn't even include really any a lot of bands from the 80's on in Joel's own era.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4000754&forum_id=2#36970395)

INSPIRES ME WITHOUT A SOUND

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4000754&forum_id=2#36970464)