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Should men always wear wristwatches?
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Date: June 21st, 2018 9:52 PM Author: ultramarine theater stage I have not worn a wristwatch since sometime in college. I hated how within a year the face would always get some kind of weird scuff on it, the strap eventually tear, or the little knobs would get bent somehow. Granted they were garbage fossil brand watches.
Should I start wearing one again? Can I even be considered a man without one?
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Date: June 21st, 2018 9:58 PM Author: Razzmatazz Parlour Only if you get one with a cool complication like a reserve de marche, or a perpetual calendar or a minute repeater or at a minimum a cool skeletonized watch. A Grand Seiko with a reserve de marche function for like $7k is my suggestion for entry level.
If all it does is tell time -- boring. |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 9:59 PM Author: chest-beating spectacular depressive garrison why not get a JLC ultra thin reserve de marche for the same price like you did? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36287912) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:02 PM Author: Razzmatazz Parlour Most one watch dudes buy 1 42mm sport watch and not an ultra thin dress watch . The JLC is very dressy. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36287931) |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 11:57 PM Author: emerald judgmental internal respiration are you flame? you make nowhere near enough money to buy all the shit you post about, particularly living in a high COL area. are you some kind of nigger with money for real? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36294782) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 12:04 AM Author: trip center isn't are reptile a Bolshevik Slumlord? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36294827) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 9:13 AM Author: chest-beating spectacular depressive garrison Litigates in front of Gorsuch, depos at Cadwalader, invents insurance product, Brighton beach slumlord. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36295755) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 11:00 AM Author: emerald judgmental internal respiration Oh he did a stint st Cadwalader in addition to QE? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36296112) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 10:55 PM Author: Razzmatazz Parlour I did a depo at Cadwaladers office. LJL. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299062) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 10:54 PM Author: Razzmatazz Parlour I make $275k a year and my wife works. Our combined income is north of $350k. One of my houses is paid off. I can afford this shit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299056) |
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Date: June 24th, 2018 1:18 AM Author: Odious house-broken address really tough guy Your wife makes just over $75k/year? Ouch. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299736) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 9:58 PM Author: Vibrant salmon lodge (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36287905) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:09 PM Author: Razzmatazz Parlour The rotor isn't real gold. I couldn't live with an exposed rear with a fake gold rotor. It would drive me batshit. Grand Seiko is credited. Regular Seiko is not. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36287959) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:12 PM Author: Vibrant salmon lodge (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36287974) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:00 PM Author: dashing nowag I find it convenient. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36287916) |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 9:58 AM Author: Magical old irish cottage Yep, I find it convenient (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36289664) |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 12:56 PM Author: grizzly gaming laptop (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36290945) |
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Date: June 24th, 2018 12:14 AM Author: maroon headpube Sir! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299440) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:00 PM Author: Dead blue affirmative action no one will respect you if you dont have a timepiece on your wrist past 25. thats just how it is. you can get a pass if you wear one of these faggy apple iwatches. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36287919) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:03 PM Author: Vibrant salmon lodge (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36287937) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:04 PM Author: idiotic factory reset button famous landscape painting no they look grippa stupid (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36287939) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:11 PM Author: Razzmatazz Parlour Cartier has a new 36mm Santos that is highly credited for like $10k. It's nothing special horologically but it is probably the sexiest fashion watch ever made and their new automatic inhouse movement isn't totally horrible. It's certainly no worse than a Nomos movement. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36287971) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:24 PM Author: irradiated toilet seat circlehead 36mm? How big is the men's version? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288041) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:27 PM Author: Razzmatazz Parlour The original Santos was 29mm. 36 is the enlarged modern version. Still a classic. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288064) |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 9:58 AM Author: Magical old irish cottage LJL at womanly $ wasting on TTT Cartier (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36289668) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 11:01 PM Author: Razzmatazz Parlour This is the credited attitude to have for all their watches but two models. They make a sick tourbillon for $40k and the Santos is credited because of its history as the first wristwatch. Every other Cartier can be ignored. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299093) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:15 PM Author: Razzle-dazzle pit coldplay fan there is no reason to have a wristwatch, you might as well just burn your money (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36287997) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:26 PM Author: Razzmatazz Parlour After the quartz crisis all the better manufacturers learned to police supply to the point where the waiting list for a lot of Vacheron and Audemars Piguet and even the better Rolex models is something like "sometime after 2025." You put down a deposit for the pleasure of waiting 8 years. They sell for way, way, way over retail on the grey market. Like Ferraris. This is generally all for shit over $30k. At the $10k price point it's easy to fall for a model with resale value that's less than half of retail. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288060) |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 10:11 PM Author: Flushed Blathering Property Lol what currently produced Rolex has a 7 year wait? I doubt any. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36294256) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 10:53 PM Author: Razzmatazz Parlour Ceramic Daytonas. The way around the waitlist is to buy like 5 shittier models and then your sales rep makes a call. Other than that you pay double on the grey market or wait 5-7 years. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299048) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:34 PM Author: Histrionic resort it's annoying as fuck to have to whip out your phone every time you want to check the time
unlike what bitchface is saying itt you don't need to spend a shitton on one. it's really easy to get a very classy vintage watch without paying much. |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:41 PM Author: Razzmatazz Parlour Vintage watches all break easy. Vintage basically means pre saphire faces and before near frictionless silicon gears. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288114) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:42 PM Author: Histrionic resort wow nobody gives a flying fuck (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288119) |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 9:55 AM Author: Flushed Blathering Property Of course that’s what a prole russian striver would say. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36289653) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 11:29 PM Author: Pearl Bisexual Goal In Life (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299250) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:21 PM Author: ultramarine theater stage hmm how about an Oris propilot? I like the way it looks, not too expensive, Swiss, and has an altimeter which I could possibly use
https://www.oris.ch/en/collection/oris-big-crown-propilot |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:29 PM Author: Razzmatazz Parlour Oris is has a skeleton model that is very credited for the money but their movements are pretty vanilla ETAs with no story. They are reliable and for the money quite good but I don't see the point of any watch at this price point. The point of this hobby is to own something weird and unique and insanely complicated. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288073) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:34 PM Author: floppy therapy rigor (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288088) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:37 PM Author: useless locus Sounds about right. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288104) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:46 PM Author: Razzmatazz Parlour I've been thinking of buying this ecodrive.
https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/citizen-eco-drive-one-thinnest-light-powered-watch
Every mass market line has one or two standout models for real watch collectors. I wouldn't buy a vanilla ecodrive but this thing I would buy. |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 11:41 PM Author: trip center $20 says it's this model
https://us.citizenwatch.com/us/en/mens-corso/BM7262-57A.html?cgid=mens-ecodrive |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 11:46 PM Author: floppy therapy rigor (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36294741) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:35 PM Author: laughsome anal den There are a few German watchmakers who make nice entry level luxury watches. Check out Stowa and Nomos. Nomos is a bit more expensive because of their in-house movement, but the Stowa movements are fine (they're Swiss), and I think Stowas look better. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288092) |
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Date: June 24th, 2018 2:41 PM Author: Big box office faggotry Stowa might be the best value around. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36301752) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:38 PM Author: Razzmatazz Parlour Joe Rogan explains watches
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IsZaOlCEmYs |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 10:25 PM Author: ultramarine theater stage (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36294317) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:40 PM Author: Odious house-broken address really tough guy Get a good smartwatch (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288109) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:40 PM Author: Histrionic resort cr really great way to signal that you're a fag (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288111) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:44 PM Author: Lascivious brindle stag film (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288127) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:44 PM Author: Odious house-broken address really tough guy no u. You signal that you're tech-savvy and cutting edge while being both productive and fashion forward. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288128) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:44 PM Author: Histrionic resort that is literally the textbook definition of a fag (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288129) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:49 PM Author: Odious house-broken address really tough guy No, a fag is a man who takes another man's penis in his butt or mouth and/or puts his penis in another man's butt or mouth. This is about intelligently choosing a watch that is both functional and stylish. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288146) |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 9:35 AM Author: Twinkling Flatulent Mad Cow Disease Weed Whacker Actually, NOT doing those things makes you a fag. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36289565) |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 12:56 PM Author: Odious house-broken address really tough guy I forgot that this is a nude bodybuilding forum... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36290940) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:51 PM Author: Wonderful french hospital stock car (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288153) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:52 PM Author: chest-beating spectacular depressive garrison (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288159) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 11:38 PM Author: Garnet incel (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288347) |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 8:21 AM Author: Deranged balding trust fund (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36289311) |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 9:54 AM Author: olive school cafeteria (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36289648) |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 10:16 PM Author: mentally impaired bateful roommate ceo (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36294280) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 11:16 PM Author: trip center (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299189) |
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Date: June 24th, 2018 1:20 AM Author: shivering light jewess step-uncle's house (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299740) |
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Date: June 24th, 2018 2:11 PM Author: Obsidian tanning salon (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36301642) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:46 PM Author: marvelous learning disabled new version stead (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288138) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:42 PM Author: Razzmatazz Parlour Right, so you have one more device to charge every single day. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288117) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:43 PM Author: Odious house-broken address really tough guy You just place it on a stand at night. It takes zero thought. No one sleeps with a watch on anyway. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288122) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:46 PM Author: Exhilarant up-to-no-good menage An automatic mechanical watch is actually the most convenient way to keep track of time. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288137) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:53 PM Author: chest-beating spectacular depressive garrison just look at the sun (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288160) |
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Date: June 21st, 2018 10:54 PM Author: Razzmatazz Parlour Some of us live in the arctic circle, bro. Not cool. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36288161) |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 8:23 AM Author: alcoholic apoplectic office Real men? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36289321) |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 8:27 AM Author: Contagious Clown Milk ABWW. A always B be W wearing W wristwatches. always be wearing wristwaches. ALWAYS... BE WEARING WRISTWATCHES. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36289329) |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 9:50 AM Author: low-t beady-eyed kitty people who are hurt wearing an orange seiko monster right now. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36289629) |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 9:53 AM Author: slate range seems like a huge waste of money (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36289647) |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 1:01 PM Author: Supple brunch mexican Watches are Boomer flame (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36290968) |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 1:18 PM Author: Exhilarant up-to-no-good menage (pocketwatch proponent) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36291067) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 3:03 PM Author: Odious house-broken address really tough guy pocketwatch = cell phone (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36297034) |
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Date: June 22nd, 2018 10:39 PM Author: Erotic stage Yes. Always. (GC) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36294387) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 10:48 AM Author: Magical old irish cottage This is stupid, men carrying a timepiece predates (((GC))) fucking with everyone’s lives and no one said it had to be an expensive watch, could be a $10 Casio digital. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36296038) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 10:57 PM Author: Razzmatazz Parlour There are $5000 G-Shocks from Casio. Even with digital there is no reason to ever go prole. Buy one of those. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299071) |
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Date: June 24th, 2018 2:42 PM Author: Magical old irish cottage Why would anyone spend $5k on a digital watch? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36301757) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 10:57 PM Author: Erotic stage CR but back then we didn't all have 15 clocks (or timekeeping devices) in every room. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299074) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 11:03 PM Author: Razzmatazz Parlour Just do ask Alexa for the time. But what do you do after Red Dawn when the internet and power is down as Russian EMPs killed all th Quartz time pieces? Then you will wish you had a Rolex. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299100) |
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Date: June 24th, 2018 2:44 PM Author: Magical old irish cottage Still, i'd rather glance at a cheap wristwatch than have to pull my piece of shit GC iPhone out of my pocket to check the time (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36301761) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 11:04 PM Author: Rusted passionate immigrant crackhouse If you're comfortable with being a jewelry guy, I guess. Personally, I don't like to wear jewelry so I don't wear a watch. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299107) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 11:05 PM Author: Razzmatazz Parlour But then you can't legitimately tell a dude that your watch costs more than his car. That's the ultimate powe move short of raping his wife while he watches. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299117) |
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Date: June 24th, 2018 12:16 AM Author: maroon headpube (5’4” dude) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299456) |
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Date: June 24th, 2018 1:03 AM Author: Galvanic Associate Institution mfCrrrrrrrrr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299665) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 11:18 PM Author: ultramarine theater stage So I should add a gold necklace as well? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299212) |
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Date: June 24th, 2018 1:22 AM Author: Odious house-broken address really tough guy Wait, are there people here who don't wear thick gold necklaces? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299747) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 11:04 PM Author: tan dopamine nursing home I've worn the same green timex since I was 18 its a 180 watch (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299110) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 11:17 PM Author: Erotic stage cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299204) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 11:19 PM Author: Soul-stirring temple volcanic crater lol at the people in this thread that dont check their email 60x times an hour and complaining about having to take out their phone to check the time. jokes on you i already know the time because i never get to put my phone down. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299217) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 11:21 PM Author: Razzmatazz Parlour It's not about telling time. It's about having a super cool insanely complicated machine on your wrist that has 900 man hours of work behind it. Some slave spent 6 months making one watch and you own it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299223) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 11:26 PM Author: Soul-stirring temple volcanic crater yah idk man id rather spend the 20k on like a miata or sweet motorcycle. that checks all your weird sociopath boxes but also, you know, does something functional.
edit: also good: hiring an actual person to just do 900 man hours of helpful work for you. laundry, cleaning, errands, etc. |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 11:27 PM Author: Razzmatazz Parlour Most car guys are watch guys. You do both, bro. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299243) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 11:29 PM Author: Soul-stirring temple volcanic crater i am a car guy. if i have another 20k to burn im getting another car. not some dumb ass fucking watch that only the people i like the least would appreciate. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299247) |
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Date: June 23rd, 2018 11:24 PM Author: Razzmatazz Parlour If all your watch does is tell time you're doing it wrong. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299235) |
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Date: June 24th, 2018 12:12 AM Author: Obsidian tanning salon Brother in law recently bought me a Cartier watch. Appreciate the gesture but I feel like it’s a waste of money (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299426) |
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Date: June 24th, 2018 12:21 AM Author: adulterous whorehouse what would you have liked instead (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299484) |
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Date: June 24th, 2018 12:47 AM Author: Obsidian tanning salon Nothing. I’m a joyless autist/ xo poster (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299617) |
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Date: June 24th, 2018 1:20 AM Author: shivering light jewess step-uncle's house same (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299742) |
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Date: June 24th, 2018 1:35 AM Author: Amethyst Titillating Indian Lodge Gay Wizard (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299790) |
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Date: June 24th, 2018 12:23 AM Author: gold fighting theatre rigpig don't the Goldman guys wear Timex Ironmans? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36299492) |
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Date: June 24th, 2018 2:40 PM Author: Cracking ruddy set http://www.businessinsider.com/gselevator-on-wall-street-watches-2016-9 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4007686&forum_id=2#36301745) |