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Jurors would not be taking this long to acquit Manafort
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Date: August 17th, 2018 12:49 PM Author: black self-absorbed forum (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054105&forum_id=2#36633035) |
Date: August 17th, 2018 12:50 PM Author: spectacular blood rage hung jury actually. Stupid Ellis shoulda just used 8 jurors. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054105&forum_id=2#36633049) |
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Date: August 17th, 2018 12:58 PM Author: black self-absorbed forum (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054105&forum_id=2#36633116) |
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Date: August 17th, 2018 12:59 PM Author: vermilion mental disorder brunch tcr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054105&forum_id=2#36633121) |
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Date: August 17th, 2018 1:01 PM Author: spruce tantric piazza Probably. I think the jurors are not provided with the evidence though, and have to go off their memory from trial. Which could make convictions difficult on the big charges depending on how dumb they are etc. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054105&forum_id=2#36633141) |
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Date: August 17th, 2018 1:01 PM Author: milky deer antler asking about RD is not great. It means they do NOT think he's innocent, but are wondering if their sense he is guilty is "enough" to pass RD standard.
So yeah, even if it were acquittal across the board, they are not leaving saying he's innocent... which means they will likely NOT acquit across the board, if that makes sense |
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Date: August 17th, 2018 1:04 PM Author: black self-absorbed forum (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054105&forum_id=2#36633170) |
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Date: August 17th, 2018 1:06 PM Author: milky deer antler maybe Im wrong. i do shitcrim defense and talk about RD all the time. If one of my juries came back asking about it (has never happened), Id naturally assume they dont believe in defendant's factual innocence. Could still acquit but for legal, RD reasons, which is cutting very close to the bone afaic (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054105&forum_id=2#36633180) |
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Date: August 20th, 2018 9:44 AM Author: misanthropic pink rigor i am betting on a pedantic 105 IQ juror insisting they all agree on DEFINITIONS before getting into the evidence. it was a long trial and there are a lot of counts, not surprising it is taking a while. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054105&forum_id=2#36647648) |
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Date: August 20th, 2018 9:45 AM Author: Bat-shit-crazy Sex Offender Home Not a crimmo but talking about RD sounds dangerous. It seems very lawyerly and beyond jurors, who are really just asking themselves "is this guy guilty or not?"
By saying RD, RD, you're implying that well maybe he's guilty but this technicality says you should vote otherwise |
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Date: August 20th, 2018 10:01 AM Author: Canary Adventurous Associate Also not a crimmo or a jurymo but this seems like tcr analysis to me. Can any crimmos or shitlawers provide scholarship on how juries react to D pounding RD? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054105&forum_id=2#36647718) |
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Date: August 20th, 2018 11:00 AM Author: titillating plaza son of senegal If you don’t have the facts, argue the law. If you don’t have either, argue the standard of proof...and say a novena. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054105&forum_id=2#36647959) |
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Date: August 20th, 2018 1:32 PM Author: milky deer antler Its framing. I live and die by it, from voir dire to verdict.
The psych mindset of the juror is that he is here because the guy "did something".
You need to violently re-frame that and pound "presume he is innocent", "not here to judge him guilty, but examine if RD has been surpassed". Mak them stare down the state from the perspective of your guy.
If you allow it to be a horse race of who has got the better case, crim def will lose 100% of the time, instead of just the majority of the time.
I POUND RD
"Even if my guy did it, you have a single doubt, right?!" |
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Date: August 20th, 2018 3:41 PM Author: flushed church Pounding RD is extremely important, especially if the prosecution reinforces that "beyond a reasonable doubt" doesn't mean "beyond all doubt." Typically you'd start by explaining that the defendant is innocent unless proven guilty by the government and that the jury has to give the defendant the benefit of the doubt. By default, the jury has to return a not guilty verdict. The only way the jury can return a guilty verdict is if the only reasonable interpretation of the evidence is that the defendant is guilty. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054105&forum_id=2#36649755) |
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Date: August 20th, 2018 9:35 AM Author: black self-absorbed forum (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054105&forum_id=2#36647604) |
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Date: August 20th, 2018 9:37 AM Author: duck-like deranged kitty cat lol this is completely backwards. a conviction would have come out quickly (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054105&forum_id=2#36647618) |
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Date: August 20th, 2018 9:40 AM Author: black self-absorbed forum (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054105&forum_id=2#36647628) |
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Date: August 20th, 2018 9:40 AM Author: milky deer antler think it's fair to say no one fucking knows how juries behave behind closed doors.
I ran into a juror of mine, in a NG, months after the verdict and he told me, "the hold out kept telling us that even if he was innocent God wanted him punished for something".
Proles are dumb, voir dire is useless, and they could be arguing about any fucking thing back there |
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Date: August 20th, 2018 9:47 AM Author: misanthropic pink rigor lol at opening up the jury system to everyone. what a disaster. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054105&forum_id=2#36647660) |
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Date: August 20th, 2018 9:41 AM Author: Ruby set azn Lawyers never not reading tea leaves. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054105&forum_id=2#36647636) |
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Date: August 20th, 2018 9:46 AM Author: Bat-shit-crazy Sex Offender Home (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054105&forum_id=2#36647654) |
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Date: August 20th, 2018 3:58 PM Author: Clear Native Boiling Water seriously. it's 50/50. just stfu and wait. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054105&forum_id=2#36649907) |
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Date: August 20th, 2018 9:46 AM Author: Hairless personal credit line ELI5 why I'm supposed to gaf about this trial (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054105&forum_id=2#36647653) |
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Date: August 20th, 2018 9:47 AM Author: milky deer antler bc absolutely everything is now a proxy civil war, even NFL cheerleaders (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054105&forum_id=2#36647656) |
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Date: August 20th, 2018 9:48 AM Author: Hairless personal credit line Seems like my energy would be better devoted to, well, anything except this (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054105&forum_id=2#36647663) |
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Date: August 20th, 2018 9:52 AM Author: Hairless personal credit line btw I don't think a 5 yo would understand what a "proxy civil war" is (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054105&forum_id=2#36647681) |
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Date: August 20th, 2018 9:52 AM Author: black self-absorbed forum (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054105&forum_id=2#36647683) |
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Date: August 20th, 2018 9:55 AM Author: Hairless personal credit line So it's libs looking for the scalp of somebody Trump-related, no matter how irrelevant the crimes? And Trumpmos just hoping libs don't get that scalp?
IDK man, you can have it, seems pretty inconsequential |
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Date: August 20th, 2018 10:13 AM Author: black self-absorbed forum (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054105&forum_id=2#36647778) |
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Date: August 20th, 2018 10:14 AM Author: Hairless personal credit line Your guess is as good as mine, brochacho. tcr seems like ignoring this sideshow entirely.
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Date: August 20th, 2018 12:19 PM Author: wonderful thirsty fat ankles Because if you have to pay taxes, then so does this asshole. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054105&forum_id=2#36648356) |
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Date: August 20th, 2018 12:24 PM Author: Hairless personal credit line So every "tax evasion" case should be the subject of wall-to-wall news coverage? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054105&forum_id=2#36648377) |
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Date: August 20th, 2018 9:51 AM Author: black self-absorbed forum (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054105&forum_id=2#36647677) |
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Date: August 20th, 2018 10:21 AM Author: misanthropic pink rigor Jens David Ohlin, vice dean and law professor at Cornell Law School, said the jury continuing to deliberate likely means they’re not super close to a verdict — but he pointed out that there are a lot of charges against Manafort for him to just walk away. “Manafort was charged with multiple counts of multiple charges, thus increasing the mathemetical likelihood of a conviction on at least some counts,” he said. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054105&forum_id=2#36647808) |
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Date: August 20th, 2018 12:45 PM Author: Bat-shit-crazy Sex Offender Home one weird trick (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054105&forum_id=2#36648475) |
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Date: August 20th, 2018 10:25 AM Author: Sienna vigorous elastic band prediction: 2-3 guilties, >2-3 acquits, a few hung. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054105&forum_id=2#36647824) |
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Date: August 20th, 2018 10:41 AM Author: unhinged digit ratio I was on a jury once when I was in college. I heard some truly retarded shit when I was deliberating with my fellow jurors. Who knows what they’re back there talking about. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054105&forum_id=2#36647886) |
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Date: August 20th, 2018 10:50 AM Author: Bat-shit-crazy Sex Offender Home I was an alternate once, so I sat through the trial but didn't vote. By far the number one topic of discussion was when will this end and I better not miss any of my plans for this (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054105&forum_id=2#36647920) |
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Date: August 20th, 2018 10:55 AM Author: Talented walnut base dog poop And this is a DC jury - so take that sentiment and multiply it by 10. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054105&forum_id=2#36647937) |
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Date: August 20th, 2018 10:58 AM Author: unhinged digit ratio Mine was in state court in prince georges county. Very dark jury. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054105&forum_id=2#36647949) |
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Date: August 20th, 2018 10:59 AM Author: Talented walnut base dog poop (Outed as a Terpmo) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054105&forum_id=2#36647957) |
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Date: August 20th, 2018 12:12 PM Author: unhinged digit ratio Double threat brother (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054105&forum_id=2#36648326) |
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Date: August 20th, 2018 11:01 AM Author: vermilion mental disorder brunch Not a DC jury, but thanks for playing. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054105&forum_id=2#36647963) |
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Date: August 20th, 2018 2:40 PM Author: flushed church In the 2016 election, there were 1.28M votes cast within the jurisdictional boundaries of the Alexandria Division of the E.D. Va.
Votes for Hillary outnumbered votes for Trump 2:1, which doesn't bode well for the jury pool's political leanings. We can only hope that the pool was overrepresented by people from the southernmost and westernmost areas of the jurisdiction. |
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Date: August 20th, 2018 2:52 PM Author: vermilion mental disorder brunch When your only measure is how people voted in an election, you'll easily miss the forest for the trees.
Hillary took 90 percent of the vote in D.C., where Trump was in the single digits with Gary Johnson and Jill Stein.
None of those facts are relevant to what this E.D. Va. jury will do. |
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Date: August 20th, 2018 3:23 PM Author: flushed church Agreed. However, the voting breakdown does give some insight into the political leanings of a perfectly representative jury pool. Whether that will have any impact on the jury's deliberations is unknown. Ideally, it wouldn't have any impact on deliberations because the jury selection process is supposed to eliminate bias, but that's not realistic. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054105&forum_id=2#36649634) |
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Date: August 20th, 2018 2:51 PM Author: Bearded University the key fact is most jurors are retards so who knows what's going on (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054105&forum_id=2#36649419) |
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Date: August 20th, 2018 3:25 PM Author: flushed church They're supposed to be 100 iq mouthbreathers who can pay attention & follow instructions. In a case of this magnitude, I'd imagine they fit that description rather well. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054105&forum_id=2#36649655) |
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Date: August 20th, 2018 3:44 PM Author: ungodly effete bawdyhouse 100 IQ people don't breathe through the mouth, that's the average IQ (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054105&forum_id=2#36649781) |
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Date: August 20th, 2018 5:15 PM Author: gaped nowag voyeur Wouldn't Northern Virginia presumably have a pretty educated jury pool? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054105&forum_id=2#36650361) |
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Date: August 21st, 2018 9:00 PM Author: black self-absorbed forum (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054105&forum_id=2#36659183) |