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Why does something exist, rather than nothing?
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Date: September 19th, 2018 10:41 AM Author: charismatic heaven macaca checkmate atheists (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4081236&forum_id=2#36839709) |
Date: September 19th, 2018 10:41 AM Author: Out-of-control ivory stage THE QUANTUM FOAM VACUUMMMMM (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4081236&forum_id=2#36839711) |
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Date: September 19th, 2018 10:44 AM Author: razzle-dazzle jewess why does something so meaningless and amoral as the universe exist rather than nothing. it would be more merciful for nothing to exist. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4081236&forum_id=2#36839723) |
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Date: September 19th, 2018 10:46 AM Author: Out-of-control ivory stage lmfao (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4081236&forum_id=2#36839733) |
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Date: September 19th, 2018 10:46 AM Author: charismatic heaven macaca you're assuming that any god would be a merciful one and that's a dangerous assumption. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4081236&forum_id=2#36839735) |
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Date: September 19th, 2018 10:46 AM Author: Out-of-control ivory stage loook at this fucking retard jim holt think he has anythign like the intellectual chops to answer this question:
"Suppose there were nothing. Then there would be no laws; for laws, after all, are something. If there were no laws, then everything would be permitted. If everything were permitted, then nothing would be forbidden. So if there were nothing, nothing would be forbidden. Thus nothing is self-forbidding.
Therefore, there must be something. Q.E.D."
LMFAO i want to literally bash this fucking retards brain in with a shovel. LAWS ARE SOMETHING the fucking faggot squeeled as i fucked his ass open |
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Date: September 19th, 2018 10:48 AM Author: bronze indecent range the problem is with the question indeed, the best answer may be "why not?" |
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Date: September 19th, 2018 10:49 AM Author: Out-of-control ivory stage suicide. now. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4081236&forum_id=2#36839749) |
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Date: September 19th, 2018 10:57 AM Author: bronze indecent range that's not the takeaway (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4081236&forum_id=2#36839798) |
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Date: September 19th, 2018 11:01 AM Author: Out-of-control ivory stage seek christ (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4081236&forum_id=2#36839813) |
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Date: September 19th, 2018 10:53 AM Author: alcoholic swashbuckling shrine you have to move past the dualistic notion that Everything and Nothing are distinct and opposing concepts. The Absolute and The Void are the same thing. Before the physical universe existed, pure eternal/infinite consciousness/nothingness "existed" |
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Date: September 19th, 2018 10:54 AM Author: Out-of-control ivory stage LOL so again here if you're suggesting something existed before creation you must mean it in an ontological sense. your heretical notions of god notwithstanding, you must concede i was correct in saying you were wrong to say god's transcendence is simply epistemological. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4081236&forum_id=2#36839784) |
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Date: September 19th, 2018 10:56 AM Author: alcoholic swashbuckling shrine I feel sorry for you, man you're so trapped by philosophical definitions that you can't see what is immanently right in front of you the whole time. Obviously this notion was and is considered "heretical" by many, and I would've been excommunicated/possibly executed in the earlier days of the church, but there have been self-described Christians who held a similar view of God. |
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Date: September 19th, 2018 10:58 AM Author: Out-of-control ivory stage this is the worst possible debate strategy suggesting you "feel sorry for someone". its a failed attempt to subvert through (((reverse psychology))) and is not christian.
but at least you acknowledge that this laozi new age bullshit is not christian. would prefer you stopped taking the lords name in vain though. |
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Date: September 19th, 2018 11:01 AM Author: alcoholic swashbuckling shrine this isn't even an exclusively Eastern idea bro, you just haven't read enough: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophatic_theology |
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Date: September 19th, 2018 11:02 AM Author: Out-of-control ivory stage lol yeah man never heard of that one before! thanks for the wiki link. do you want the chapter and page number where staniloae talks about this in the first volume of his systematic theology or would that be too christian for you? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4081236&forum_id=2#36839817) |
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Date: September 19th, 2018 11:13 AM Author: alcoholic swashbuckling shrine don't really care about someone who values dogma above revealed Truth, but he doesn't discount the value of apophatic investigation. It is far, far easier to talk about God through negation (e.g. He is not Being) |
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Date: September 19th, 2018 11:18 AM Author: Out-of-control ivory stage lol at thinking you can comprehend "revealed truth" by yourself or even with your buddies in your tiny little lifetime. the church is the most sophisticated storage system for divine expression in the history of man, and dogma contains the only starting point for a comprehensive understanding of christ. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4081236&forum_id=2#36839884) |
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Date: September 19th, 2018 11:20 AM Author: alcoholic swashbuckling shrine not talking about myself, although I have personally had an experience that I would consider a (very) small taste of revealed Truth. Have you not even touched the mysticism book yet? There are tons of CHRISTIAN mystics who have had experiences more powerful than this and hold this view, and I believe them. |
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Date: September 19th, 2018 11:26 AM Author: Out-of-control ivory stage i would venture to guess not many prior to 1054 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4081236&forum_id=2#36839928) |
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Date: September 19th, 2018 11:30 AM Author: Out-of-control ivory stage palamas, 150 chapters, chapter 75: "god is imparticipable in substance". It's not just that we can't have knowledge, its that theres a categorical division between us. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4081236&forum_id=2#36839952) |
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Date: September 19th, 2018 11:11 AM Author: charismatic heaven macaca rate this argument from George Smith's atheism book:
"What caused the universe?" is an absurd question, because before something can act as a cause, it must first exist--ie, it must first be part of the universe. The universe sets the foundation for causal explanation and cannot itself require a causal explanation.
The primacy of existence is illustrated in science by the principle that matter can neither be created nor destroyed.
The universe, then, has always existed and always will exist. Some theists find this difficult to accept, and they argue that god makes the universe easier to understand. Yet, while the theist complains of difficulty accepting the notion of an eternally existing universe, consider his alternative. We must conceive of a supernatural, unknowable, eternally existing being, and, moreover, we must conceive of this being creating matter from the void of non-existence. It is strange that those who object to the idea of eternal matter display little difficulty in accepting the creation of something out of nothing. While the idea of an eternal universe may be initially difficult for some people to assimilate, the theist's alternative is an exercise in fantasy. |
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Date: September 19th, 2018 11:17 AM Author: alcoholic swashbuckling shrine "because before something can act as a cause, it must first exist--ie, it must first be part of the universe" requiring the Absolute to be "PART" of the universe is wrong. |
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Date: September 19th, 2018 11:20 AM Author: Out-of-control ivory stage wtf is happening here you're literally now saying "the absolute" (whatever the fuck that is, josiah) is SEPARATE. Then what, you'll give me some non-dualism eastern garbage? crumminy aches man. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4081236&forum_id=2#36839898) |
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Date: September 19th, 2018 11:22 AM Author: alcoholic swashbuckling shrine He is not "part" of anything, and neither is He separate. Again, negation is a helpful tool here. Really the only positive description is His own: I Am that I Am. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4081236&forum_id=2#36839906) |
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Date: September 19th, 2018 11:25 AM Author: Out-of-control ivory stage i'm relatively certain this is heretical, you're misusing apopathic theology to mean "neti neti" hindu bullshit, and youre a protestant. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4081236&forum_id=2#36839924) |
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Date: September 19th, 2018 11:31 AM Author: alcoholic swashbuckling shrine I'm just taking Him at his Word, man. If you really think about I Am that/who I Am for a while, you start to head down this path. When asked by Moses to provide a positive "name" to tell the Israelites, this seemingly simple phrase is all God could intelligibly tell Him in human terms, and it defies the kind of definition you want to find. If that name is the most direct revealed Truth in all of Chrstianity, it implies that really the only way we can epistemologically approach God is through negating all the rest. I go to a protestant church because it's the best approximation of my beliefs that is reasonably available, and I do believe in "gathering together" as opposed to just seeking God on your own. |
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Date: September 19th, 2018 11:32 AM Author: Out-of-control ivory stage jesus christ that would've saved us a lot of time if you had told me you were protestant sooner.
lutheran, presbyterian, methodist?? |
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Date: September 19th, 2018 11:41 AM Author: alcoholic swashbuckling shrine PCA Presbyterian specifically, which is the uncucked branch of Presbyterian (PCUSA is super cucky). Main theological belief I have that matches up with this denomination is predestination. See Romans 9. No one can come to God whose heart has not already been opened. Edit: primarily Romans 8, sorry |
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Date: September 19th, 2018 11:42 AM Author: Out-of-control ivory stage very credited, i like presbyterians a lot. rcp90 was my first presbyterian friend. you're not him right? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4081236&forum_id=2#36840042) |
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Date: September 19th, 2018 11:49 AM Author: alcoholic swashbuckling shrine nah not him Also biggest aspect of the service that I strongly prefer is liturgy, which many Protestant denominations reject in favor of the worship-lite rock concert atmosphere. I like the collective call and response reading of scripture (especially Psalms) a lot. Also collective confession of sin. Sacrament of communion I prefer not to think of as magical transubstantiation, a "remembrance" as He Himself said, rather than physical body and blood |
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Date: September 19th, 2018 11:51 AM Author: Out-of-control ivory stage are you into TULIP at all? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4081236&forum_id=2#36840114) |
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Date: September 19th, 2018 11:54 AM Author: alcoholic swashbuckling shrine Yeah man, especially the T, which I've been thinking a lot about while reading Ishmael. Humans are all fucking scum post-Fall and deserve to die. The only reason we haven't been smited is because of the grace of God. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4081236&forum_id=2#36840135) |
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Date: September 19th, 2018 11:56 AM Author: Out-of-control ivory stage calvinists are fucking badass (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4081236&forum_id=2#36840141) |
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Date: September 19th, 2018 12:03 PM Author: alcoholic swashbuckling shrine I went to a private (non-Catholic) Christian school 4th grade through HS "Bible" was a required class. It was lulzy as fuck the handful of times predestination came up because I was literally the only one in the class willing to defend it, and everyone else was Shocked Pure Shocked. It offended their preconceived notions so deeply, but they had extremely little rational defense, reminded me a lot of libs, just believing shit because it FEELS right to them. LJL at thinking fucking sinful as hell evil-natured humans can just randomly decide to love God and "oh whoops! Guess God had no idea which way you would go, what a surprise for Him!" |
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Date: September 19th, 2018 12:06 PM Author: Out-of-control ivory stage my take is generally if you beat someone enough and teach them theology they will learn. lets call that god opening up someones heart, except its me opening their skull. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4081236&forum_id=2#36840260) |
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Date: September 19th, 2018 11:30 AM Author: charismatic heaven macaca i was more interested in a response to THIS bit:
The universe, then, has always existed and always will exist.
this is a pretty grand proclamation to make purely from "logic" and even when i read this as an angry atheist teenager it stuck out to me as awfully hand-wavey. |
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Date: September 19th, 2018 3:37 PM Author: charismatic heaven macaca (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4081236&forum_id=2#36842166) |
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Date: September 19th, 2018 11:22 AM Author: 180 resort incel The physical constants of the universe require it. The strong force, weak force, electromagnetic force, gravity, and the fixed energy density of the vacuum of space all combine to necessitate existence (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4081236&forum_id=2#36839908) |
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Date: September 19th, 2018 11:26 AM Author: charismatic heaven macaca oh well that settles it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4081236&forum_id=2#36839930) |
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Date: September 19th, 2018 11:26 AM Author: Out-of-control ivory stage oh so the things that exist require other things to exist thanks got it (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4081236&forum_id=2#36839931) |
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Date: September 19th, 2018 11:50 AM Author: Stirring organic girlfriend (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4081236&forum_id=2#36840099) |
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Date: September 19th, 2018 11:28 AM Author: Adulterous Deep Goal In Life shut the fuck up spaceporn (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4081236&forum_id=2#36839942) |
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Date: September 19th, 2018 11:31 AM Author: charismatic heaven macaca shut the fuck up "boner" police your "boners" are flaccid and noodley, very $ad (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4081236&forum_id=2#36839958) |
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Date: September 19th, 2018 11:43 AM Author: cruel-hearted shivering stag film queen of the night Random tribulations in the time space/continuum. If you add it all up, it will equal 0. Like a complex equation that can go on forever but the end result is always zero. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4081236&forum_id=2#36840048) |
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Date: September 19th, 2018 11:50 AM Author: Stirring organic girlfriend out your SAT math score (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4081236&forum_id=2#36840108) |
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Date: September 19th, 2018 1:31 PM Author: cruel-hearted shivering stag film queen of the night 590 tbh.
790 verbal though... |
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Date: September 19th, 2018 3:41 PM Author: glittery duck-like indirect expression whorehouse because everything exists? or something like that? infinite existence. nothing, truly nothing, is a startingly disturbing thought. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4081236&forum_id=2#36842206) |
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Date: September 19th, 2018 3:42 PM Author: dead church building water buffalo I don’t think our brains are sufficiently evolved to understand the issue. This has to be the answer no? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4081236&forum_id=2#36842218) |
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Date: September 21st, 2018 10:14 AM Author: Vibrant saffron boltzmann psychic xo Ecclesiastes said that
He has made everything [a]appropriate in its time. He has also set eternity in their heart, [b]yet so that man will not find out the work which God has done from the beginning even to the end. |
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Date: September 19th, 2018 3:44 PM Author: concupiscible police squad Not sure what "exists" means in this context, man. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4081236&forum_id=2#36842237) |
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Date: September 19th, 2018 3:45 PM Author: charismatic heaven macaca (retard schtick) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4081236&forum_id=2#36842245) |
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Date: September 21st, 2018 10:04 AM Author: charismatic heaven macaca (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4081236&forum_id=2#36856228) |
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Date: September 21st, 2018 10:17 AM Author: Fragrant Site Selfie been thinking about this a lot, man (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4081236&forum_id=2#36856306) |
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Date: September 21st, 2018 10:36 AM Author: charismatic heaven macaca (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4081236&forum_id=2#36856433) |
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Date: January 17th, 2019 12:34 AM Author: Bisexual Yapping Blood Rage (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4081236&forum_id=2#37606288) |
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Date: September 21st, 2018 10:18 AM Author: High-end trip hominid maybe what we view as something is actually nothing. alternatively it might be everything. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4081236&forum_id=2#36856309) |
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Date: September 21st, 2018 10:19 AM Author: Fragrant Site Selfie you might be on to something or nothing (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4081236&forum_id=2#36856316) |
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Date: September 21st, 2018 10:18 AM Author: Embarrassed to the bone diverse theater I reject the premise (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4081236&forum_id=2#36856314) |
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Date: September 29th, 2018 5:28 PM Author: charismatic heaven macaca (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4081236&forum_id=2#36923189) |
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Date: September 29th, 2018 5:41 PM Author: Tan Very Tactful Lettuce Stead There are only two philosophical questions - why does the universe exist, and what is the nature of mind. They seem to be related. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4081236&forum_id=2#36923257) |
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Date: September 29th, 2018 5:42 PM Author: filthy school cafeteria you down with G-O-D? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4081236&forum_id=2#36923260) |
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Date: January 17th, 2019 1:26 AM Author: Honey-headed exciting milk Deus Vult Illud (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4081236&forum_id=2#37606433) |