Can we stop calling them "liberals" or "progressives"? They aren't.
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Date: October 13th, 2018 3:06 AM Author: purple diverse stage half-breed
they aren't even a unified entity that can be characterized ideologically.
the 'left' are a coalition of groups who want *things* for purely selfish reasons (spoiled womyn, tribal minorities, blacks on the 'gibs' dole, gay paedophiles, etc), and over all of them stands the jew, who creates a sophistic apologetics -- 'progressivism' -- to legitimate the 'left's' demands, because discord in white western culture serves THEIR own selfish interests.
there is no logically consistent 'left' doctrine underwriting any of this shit. the ostensible mission of 'open borders' could have been served by 'colonialism;' yesterday's 'free speech' left becomes today's 'anti speech' left, once they've gained the whip hand. it's about power.
POWER.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4104786&forum_id=2#37012924) |
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Date: October 13th, 2018 3:48 AM Author: purple diverse stage half-breed
i absolutely do take a completely cynical view of it. for instance, i absolutely believe that jews stake out both sides of the spectrum (left-lib-socialist v. right-neocon-global finance) because they are entirely cynical themselves, and do not 'believe' in any of the 'ideologies' they push. politics is instrumental for them. they always have in view 'Is It Good for the Jews'. and why wouldn't they?
i also believe the modern run-of-the-mill leftist has become similarly cynical. you see it in a lot of the commentary on this board, which is entirely 'Our Team Wins, Your Team Loses HaHa'. these are not starry-eyed 'true believers.' these are not the utopian communal anarchists of yesteryear. these are people out to gain power for themselves -- within the global capitalist framework.
'environmentalism' and this other frou-frou stuff is just part of the twitter virtue-signalling parlor game. maybe like 150 people actually have a heartfelt concern.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4104786&forum_id=2#37013002) |
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Date: October 13th, 2018 9:35 AM Author: wonderful maniacal macaca
Ho Lee Fuk
This thread has some gems in it. These gakked out ramblings are strangely coherent and brilliant. I feel even moar retarded after reading them.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4104786&forum_id=2#37013326) |
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Date: October 13th, 2018 4:44 AM Author: deranged brethren jew
I don't necessarily disagree with your post. But I would add and argue that this mix isn't arbitrary as is maybe a bit implied by your post, these two groups are not uniformly distributed across Democrats where some over here are the good ones with defensible reasons, then here right next to those are some white man haters then again next to those are some defensibles then again some white man haters etc.
Rather there is a soft-threshold operator acting on age values of people on the left that's highly discriminative when it comes to political beliefs and attitudes between the two rough age groups on the left. And that this clustering / splitting by age group gives two VERY distinct groups in terms of political beliefs, thought, and attitudes.
Older Democrats seem to still largely hold liberal values and care about traditional liberal policy platform. They still e.g. overwhelmingly defend cases like Alex Jones against being censored by tech companies despite their deep personal hatred of him, they're disturbed by ANTIFA, they're disturbed when true liberal values are at threat like freedom of speech, and they're philosophically consistent and stick up for these liberal values even when the threat to these liberal values hurt their political opponents - e.g. conservative speakers attempting to give talks on campuses but are shut down, bullied out of the event, talked over the entire event, protestors overwhelm the event effectively shutting it down, administrators cancel the event due to "safety concerns", etc.
In fact I'm remarkably impressed and find it reaffirming when talking to this group of leftists - and when I say "older" sometimes this soft threshold can include 30 or 35 year olds in the "older" group. One of the defining features of this more noble older group is the wisdom and willingness to see and defend true liberal values over very trivial partisanship and scoring of political points for your team over the other. I.e. the wisdom to recognize there are actual liberal values at stake here in these cases which have broader and farther reaching consequences than what are often just extremely trivial battles involving a couple individuals at most, and clearly with outcomes without impact on say elections or appointments or any policy outcome whatsoever. At the same time these are the older age group and in contrast it's quite scary.
The young ones are no less than spawns of Satan - extensive conversation with the younger types will reveal that policy is of zero concern in politics, and the very notion of politics is something that lives an a completely different sphere of thought, attitudes and belief systems for these types. They live in a world of absolutes, where people "are" this thing or that thing. These people display extreme levels of narcissism, have been influenced by social media in ways that's foreign to the higher age groups. They are highly intolerant to diversity of political thought while fetishists of diversity in the dimensions they deem SOCIALLY important. They are willing social conformists to a degree that's difficult to comprehend or find a similar example for comparison.
The conformity aspect has been discussed pretty extensively here on XO - where people often point out how strange it is that our youth today have no counterculture like our parent's generation in the 60s or 70s. Not only is there no counterculture - there is little to no rebellion at all against "the system" or "the man", and not only do today's youth not rebel against anything outside of their personal households maybe (more on this in a bit), they actively conform and are fully content with being aligned with our major power institutions in the U.S. like the media, Universities, political institutions. There's a tiny shred of rebelliousness to some "corporations" or corporate interests - but this common leftist attitude is vanishing into the background while the camera's sole focus is fixed on identity politics and morality issues. Today's youth depends on corporations, they like their iphones, they like talking to friends on facebook and moralizing on Twitter/ FB, their paychecks are from corporations and their image of "corporations" is no longer some greedy entity poisoning the environment or a sweat shop in the Philippines or even the watered down recent version of "oversized corporate influence on political system", these belong to those Democrats a decade or two or three older.
So what do the leftist youth today rebel against? Trump - the resistance, rape culture, the patriarchy, racism, sexism, unfairness, the gender wage gap, police shootings, the racial bias in our criminal justice system - notice the commonality? These are all moral objections. Poisoning the planet has a moral element, but it's practical we need to breathe clean air and drink fresh water. Disproportionate corporate influence in the political system has very little moral element - this rebellion / objection is a very practical one, inefficiency in our political system, there is only a scant moral element of the unfairness of it - but the focus was on the disproportionate money and the focus always seemed procedural and practical. The moral objections today - Trump - white male, rape culture - wrongly associated with white frat boy culture (these aren't the majority of rapes that are happening on campus), sexism? White male privilege patriarchy. Police shootings? Mostly white officers executing unarmed blacks (in their minds) - an issue whites are protected from due to their privilege. Criminal justice bias? Whites made / control the laws, do the sentencing, blacks are the victims.
---- This part should scare you a bit, all the rebelliousness towards all the issues that today's leftist youth cares about is directed SOLELY TOWARDS WHITE MALES. This is far more troubling than people realize.
They have deep, and I mean pathologically deep fears of being branded or labeled a racist or sexist, etc. - to the degree where it extinguishes all sense of humor on a certain group of topics. This one has been difficult for me to fully wrap my head around - because I'm not sure if this is largely just a fear of social exclusion, or something else. I think it's at least partly something else because these same fears don't exist in other areas that could threaten social exclusion, but that don't have the same moral shaming element tied to it. E.g. pathological fears of moral shaming by being labeled a racist or sexist, versus a willingness to drive drunk presenting a very real threat of literal physical social exclusion as well. I find this entire area baffling yet fascinating and horrifying - e.g. prod these types on their beliefs of different types of "bad" people, say a racist and person who got a DWI to stick with the example. A racist to them is something far, far worse and evil / immoral and fully socially unacceptable to the extreme, while someone who gets a DWI, commits a violent crime, etc. can actually physically hurt and injure people, even quite badly, but still be far more morally judgmental towards a racist. What do they imagine racists doing in their day to day lives?
I'll add that a "racist" to them doesn't have to be a neo-nazi militiaman going to KKK meetings and doing their armed militia training drills in the woods - I'm talking about their language and thinking about e.g. a gamer who impulsively goes on a Twitch rant on a live stream and says 'nigger' a few times. Pay close attention to this detail and how they talk about these things - it wasn't a one time "racist rant", it was a rant by "a racist", the implication being this person is, and probably always has been a racist and they just exposed themselves in a moment of truth and good think we all know now that this is who they are, a racist.
This may sound like a crazy rant, but I promise anybody who spends enough time around the younger group of leftists knows PRECISELY what I'm getting at here. There's a religious moralizing element to these types where "wrong beliefs" are far more threatening, worse, immoral, etc etc than someone with "the right beliefs" but physically injures other people say once or even a few times willingly and knowingly. They will pop up and spew moral indignation while letting you know about "a racist" only moments after a famous Twitch streamer says "Nigger" or "faggot" accidentally in a moment of rage on a live stream, then go home and shrug while watching a sporting event with 7 people in total on their favorite team throwing a ball on their screen in front of them who share 18 total domestic violence, assault, or violent crime cases between them.
They'll commonly take positions which conflict with if not outright threaten true liberal values and give moral reasoning as their justification. E.g. Alex Jones is a horrible piece of shit he deserved to be banned he's a despicable person. Or "yes but what if the next Hitler tries to speak on my campus we have the right to stop e.g. Nazis from talking" etc.
There is a split along age lines, that's seldom talked about but clear as day. And this younger group of leftists is the least "liberal" (in the true sense of the word) political group I have ever encountered or seen in my life in American politics.
edit: I'll just add - these younger types include people I would call very close friends, friends at work, and many people I really like but vehemently disagree as soon as they open their mouths on social / political issues. My personal interactions with these younger group types are from a combination of friends and social circles, and work / co-worker social circles. I've worked in tech for about 8 years as a statistician / data scientist - and have had extensive interactions with friends at work and many younger types about politics (I'm good at shutting up or pretending to be on their side even sometimes just simply to learn their beliefs and true thoughts - but mostly I don't shy away from openly admitting my political beliefs and debating them on these issues whenever possible). Also funny note - I have literally converted a shitlib European female, I mean far left Rachael-Maddow watching Utopian shitlib of the highest degree, that was MY MANAGER at work, into..... not quite a full conservative, but she went from watching Rachael Maddow to now subscribing and reading the WSJ, agreeing with many conservative values, and fearing the far-left much more than the far-right. She was just barely in the older group. At the same time - I have literally never convinced one of the younger types to change their mind on any single issue no matter how trivial, the best I've done is gain recognition that they could understand how someone would see things that way. (I've personally changed my political association several times I voted for Obama twice then obviously huge Trumpmo now - XO helped me see the light there ty XO)
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4104786&forum_id=2#37013086)
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Date: October 13th, 2018 10:27 PM Author: Unhinged coldplay fan
gosh damn you typed a lot
cite to these so called old libs sticking up for alex jones? being against antifa?
crickets.
it's all bullshit. at best you have silent complicity from douchebags like you find on cnn. at worst, cheerleaders like msnbc
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4104786&forum_id=2#37017088) |
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Date: October 13th, 2018 10:29 PM Author: deranged brethren jew
Bill Maher, Sam Harris, many if not most liberal public "intellectuals" (don't worry I sure af am not including Maher in the group of public intellectuals).
It's not uncommon - but at the same time they sure af aren't going to press the issue nonstop and die to their fellow lib mob of cannibals on that hill.
edit: Oh yes I won't disagree if you're talking about the media or journalists - 100% agree. I'm talking about the entire population of older Democrats in the U.S. - some public figures like Bill Maher or Sam Harris that I've seen stick up for Alex Jones re: censorship (I can't stand Maher) - some in my personal life / ppl I talk to.
It shouldn't surprise you that there are a decent amount of older Democrats that are actually liberal and recognize the insanity of their party at times esp. when they go against actual liberal values - or does it?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4104786&forum_id=2#37017099) |
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Date: October 14th, 2018 2:17 AM Author: deranged brethren jew
Thanks brother I'll write fully reply tomorrow.
But for now - yes I certainly don't claim the divide is a 100% clean separation and there's no overlap. You refer to living a quiet monastic academic life - well sure 25 year olds getting a phd will be far less radical than typical young leftists, that kind of education - aside from selection bias of the personality types of people who get a phd / work in academia, that kind of education moderates your political views to a degree (as long as we're not talking about a phd in gender studies or sociology etc.). But the selection bias of academics will certainly present a rosier picture of this age group.
The types I refer to are younger (rough threshold I'd say around 30ish, very very rough the threshold range could be like 28-35), and leftists. Partisan Democrats is the group of people I'm talking about - so if you're pretty moderate you likely don't qualify to be in any of the groups I describe.
Btw - I'll refer to your paragraphs - 1) starts with "some your analysis".
2) Don't disagree - but I think your focus is on academics, public figures etc. whereas mine is on your average citizen. But I do agree with you there - it's possible / maybe likely that I downplayed the radical element that does exist in older Dems. It's certainly there but I don't think it consumes a majority of them necessarily. I'm talking about two large groups and averages basically, average beliefs if you will. Maybe a more agreeable claim and better way for me to state my case is something like - "if you're of the genuine type that cares about true liberal values and you're a Democrat, the propensity to be in the older group is extremely extremely high", and "if you are a partisan Democrat and in the younger group - the propensity for being a spawn of Satan type is extremely high"
3) I agree - but to effectively fight the alligator we have to clearly diagnose the beast that chomps at us as an alligator, in order to best kill the alligator.
3) This is a brilliant paragraph and I couldn't agree more. The unfortunate part is that there is a gigantic intellectual barrier to entry for being able to recognize this.
I would add about re: the fear of being branded racist / sexist - what I was really getting at there, the root of it - is a very frustrating feature I find in almost all leftists but extremely pronounced in the young ones to a disturbing degree - which is their habit of placing an absurdly disproportionate value on things people say versus things people do. There's some dark comedy here for sure - if you know any of these types - what personally disturbs them more than anything and incites them to voice their disgust or talk about it etc. - is for example seeing a news story about someone yelling nigger or laying out a racist thesis, or someone with sexist beliefs etc., versus seeing a news story about an urban crime case where someone locked a guy in a basement and tortured him for weeks. Or a gang shooting in their city which killed several people and ended with viscous knife attacks. It's hilarious but frustrating how the former just MAKES THEIR BLOOD BOIL and they'll sure af let you know how disturbing the former is as they cast moral shame, while shrugging and putting aside cases like the latter.
They are surely both very interesting topics but I should've clarified that my point was really not about branding and labeling so much as about the disproportionate value placed on language and beliefs / thoughts versus what's placed on actions that affect other people directly even actions that harm other people. I find this odd, disturbing, and habitual on the left. (but my original wording worked out I guess b/c you made a very interesting elaboration on branding / labeling).
Gotta go to sleep in a bit brother - another (hopefully) glorious day of baseball tomorrow plus other shit, great interesting reply i'll finish my thoughts to your other paragraphs tmr morning.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4104786&forum_id=2#37018154) |
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Date: October 13th, 2018 10:26 PM Author: Unhinged coldplay fan
there's some bullshit here
you assume that there are silent factions of the left who don't have hate white men as a foundational ideal
and yet there is no proof that those types still exist on the left because they never speak up against the bullhorn bullshit spouted by the lefty mouthpieces
like all racism/sexism, hating white guys is a morally defunct and intellectually deficient foundation. and yet there is no reason to believe that today's lefty has any other foundation
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4104786&forum_id=2#37017080) |
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Date: October 14th, 2018 1:43 AM Author: deranged brethren jew
I'm not sure how we can define or agree on faction, but there are certainly individuals you will encounter on the left, usually older, that have traditional liberal values - and are either unaware, naive, or just ignorant about what's really happening in their party.
But if I understand your statement to be something like "there is no faction on the left significant enough, or willing enough, to confront the insanity of the white man hatred doctrine that's completely consuming, if not already consumed, their party" - I agree 100%. This doesn't imply nonexistence though - there could be ppl who are scared, naive about what's happening, completely ignorant on what's happening, etc.
Also I'm not claiming none of the older types don't hate white males. I'm claiming there are pretty decently sized groups of these older types with traditional liberal values who genuinely care about traditional Dem policy platform like free education / free healthcare (as atrocious as those policies may be), who are just completely ignorant and/or naive as to what's happening with their party.
We can quibble over the number of these types - but I'm speaking of our citizen peers, not of public figures etc.
I personally know and talk to plenty of them - I'm not claiming my personal interactions constitute a faction - but I am claiming there is a very sharp divide based on age. And the older genuine ones are incredibly naive, but they are genuine and philosophically consistent in my experience. Don't underestimate the ability for people to completely live in a media echo chamber and social bubble.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4104786&forum_id=2#37018086) |
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Date: October 13th, 2018 10:44 PM Author: deranged brethren jew
First - I agree completely with what you said about the Democratic party and the consequences of them gaining power.
But I think there are a decent number of genuine Democrats, usually older, who hold traditional, true liberal values, and don't recognize that's where their party wants to steer the bus once they sit in the driver's seat, or they don't believe it.
So I mean I guess in effect you're right about what they're doing voting Dem, but I don't think this group I'm referencing is intentionally doing it.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4104786&forum_id=2#37017197) |
Date: October 13th, 2018 12:03 PM Author: Hilarious amethyst nibblets roast beef
when discussing "left" and "right," it's important to remember that there is a difference between political policy and philosophical values. there are plenty of political and economic ideas from the "left" which have merit - after all, politics is a relative thing for each group of people or society in question. political ideas can be examined individually in context and concretely evaluated for their merits in any given situation. the example i often use is minimum wage - minimum wage works for the common good (in the general), and we know that it works from empirical evidence
but there are no philosophical ideas or values from the left that have any positive value. none. they are all destructive
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4104786&forum_id=2#37013923) |
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