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Why are all well-known civil wars North v. South (Korea, Vietnam, American)?
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Date: October 18th, 2018 9:23 PM Author: Orange exhilarant abode (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4110029&forum_id=2#37053167) |
Date: October 18th, 2018 9:24 PM Author: lavender wonderful set (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4110029&forum_id=2#37053174) |
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Date: October 18th, 2018 9:33 PM Author: Galvanic mad-dog skullcap clearly no difference between west coast and coast of US
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Date: October 18th, 2018 9:54 PM Author: lavender wonderful set (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4110029&forum_id=2#37053358) |
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Date: October 18th, 2018 10:03 PM Author: Galvanic mad-dog skullcap loving it (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4110029&forum_id=2#37053435) |
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Date: October 18th, 2018 10:04 PM Author: lavender wonderful set (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4110029&forum_id=2#37053444) |
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Date: October 18th, 2018 10:08 PM Author: Galvanic mad-dog skullcap friend, you CLEARLY did not get that my post was sarcastic and making fun of you
if you think i actually believed there is no cultural difference between the us coasts it just means you lost here and went on a totally unnecessary rant that achieved nothing
just like your strange insistence in the english thread that an english identity didnt exist until the norman invasions devolved into weird random rants about post-modernism that were so irrelevant that you yourself deleted them
come on bro. youre coming off as extremely long-winded and its really unnecessary for the purposes of our discussion
ADDENDUM - you sound an AWFUL like twist. are you twist? if so, very lulzy
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Date: October 18th, 2018 10:15 PM Author: lavender wonderful set (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4110029&forum_id=2#37053528) |
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Date: October 18th, 2018 10:18 PM Author: Galvanic mad-dog skullcap lol this has to be twist (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4110029&forum_id=2#37053548) |
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Date: October 19th, 2018 8:14 AM Author: Tan Big Sound Barrier Background Story Lmao (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4110029&forum_id=2#37055098) |
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Date: October 19th, 2018 8:19 AM Author: talented sapphire ape LOL that gook’s been blown out again (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4110029&forum_id=2#37055109) |
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Date: October 19th, 2018 8:21 AM Author: Black Spectacular Sweet Tailpipe that man has a harem! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4110029&forum_id=2#37055115) |
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Date: October 19th, 2018 10:37 AM Author: Silver Base Coffee Pot 180 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4110029&forum_id=2#37055555) |
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Date: October 19th, 2018 9:47 AM Author: federal deer antler Nominee for the one shot kill thread. Holy shit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4110029&forum_id=2#37055356) |
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Date: October 19th, 2018 11:21 AM Author: indecent aquamarine market liquid oxygen (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4110029&forum_id=2#37055789) |
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Date: October 18th, 2018 9:24 PM Author: bateful mad cow disease Yugoslavia was east vs west (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4110029&forum_id=2#37053175) |
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Date: October 18th, 2018 9:24 PM Author: Galvanic mad-dog skullcap rome, macdeonia, mongolian? yeah ok (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4110029&forum_id=2#37053177) |
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Date: October 18th, 2018 9:28 PM Author: Galvanic mad-dog skullcap + ottomans
+ germans (yes the pre-german states = german) |
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Date: October 19th, 2018 10:02 AM Author: Swollen whorehouse Germans were also north vs. south.
Prussian/Rhineland vs. Habsburg Austrian
Even now North = Protestant and South = Catholic
THe whole Grossdeutschland vs Kleindeutschland debate was a big big thing in the 19th century |
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Date: October 19th, 2018 10:05 AM Author: Bespoke friendly grandma native (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4110029&forum_id=2#37055424) |
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Date: October 19th, 2018 10:06 AM Author: lavender wonderful set (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4110029&forum_id=2#37055428) |
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Date: October 18th, 2018 9:29 PM Author: Mauve mother field Upper East Side Pounders v. Flatiron Pounders.
That volume of Semen has never been seen since. |
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Date: October 18th, 2018 9:30 PM Author: white titillating electric furnace Yemen split into an eastern and a western country during the Cold War, but they called themselves North Yemen and South Yemen despite South Yemen actually being further north (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4110029&forum_id=2#37053213) |
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Date: October 19th, 2018 8:09 AM Author: know-it-all wine karate dragon Like USF being north or at least lateral to UCF (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4110029&forum_id=2#37055086) |
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Date: October 19th, 2018 9:39 AM Author: white titillating electric furnace (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4110029&forum_id=2#37055329) |
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Date: October 18th, 2018 9:31 PM Author: chocolate stage idea he suggested Russian revolution
Us revolution |
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Date: October 18th, 2018 9:41 PM Author: Orange exhilarant abode (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4110029&forum_id=2#37053279) |
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Date: October 19th, 2018 12:58 AM Author: lavender wonderful set (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4110029&forum_id=2#37054551) |
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Date: October 19th, 2018 1:00 AM Author: bateful mad cow disease Fuck he is horrible (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4110029&forum_id=2#37054555) |
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Date: October 19th, 2018 8:08 AM Author: Bespoke friendly grandma native jfc another thread with promise choked off and killed by nyuug (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4110029&forum_id=2#37055085) |
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Date: October 19th, 2018 8:16 AM Author: talented sapphire ape Russian, Spanish, Chinese and Yugoslav are well known and not N v S (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4110029&forum_id=2#37055104) |
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Date: October 19th, 2018 10:00 AM Author: Swollen whorehouse Chinese is not N vs. S?
What the fuck are you smoking?
China HISTORICALLY, when not united, was always divided along the river huai.
Northern China: More nomadic admixture, speaks mandarin, cultivated wheat. At first was centered around Xian, then later the core of it shifted east around Beijing still around the Yellow River
Southern China: originally populated by people related to the Thai and Vietnamese. First cultivated Rice in China. Centered around the Yangtze, and was relatively late in being sinicized - the beginning of Chinese rule over the south of the Yangtze really began during the 3 kingdoms. When the Jin fell to a fuckton of nomadic invaders in the early 4th century, the entire court moved south and began the influx of Han Chinese in the area, as well as a shift to a rice-based cuisine, etc.
Every time there was a civil war in China unitl the 20th c. it was north vs. south.
-Jin Dynasty after the fall of Xian moved south to Jiankang (today's Nanjing) and began the development of the Southern jungles into Han Chinese lands. China would remain north vs. south for another 2 centuries until the Sui Dynasty
-Song got pwnt by the Jin (Jurchens) and moved their capital south. Stayed north vs. south until the MOngols (and they were the ones that resisted the Mongols most fiercely using the Yangtze river defenses. LIterally could not take down Xiangyang for 40 years, and it took 3 MOngol emperors to finally take down the Southern Song Dynasty)
-Under the Mongol rule, northern china fared much better than the South
-Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms Period also had a distnict north vs. South thing going on at the end of Tang
-Ming Dynasty revolted from the South (one of the only times that a SOUTHERN kingdom united China actually)
There's a chinese saying that "if a tangerine crosses the huai river, it becomes trifoliate orange"
CHina has ALWAYS had the north-south divide, and the Grand Canal was part of the plan to unite the two.
Even in the Chinese Civil War it was almost a north-south divide - CHiang Kai Shek first had their defenses in the Yangtze, and wanted a truce to divide CHina between north and south along the Yangtze, a re-iteration of previous Chinese civil wars. Except this time, the Communists easily took Nanjing and dashed his hopes.
Fun fact: Chiang Kai Shek almost took his Nat'list gov't to Chongqing, which is where Liu Bei set up his rump state in the 3 kingdoms period. Even now the Nationalists in Taiwan kind of see themselves as sort of like Shu, a rump state that feels like they're the legitimate rulers of China. They even use the same slogan that Zhuge Liang used: "the Han and Theives cannot co-habitate" |
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Date: October 19th, 2018 10:09 AM Author: Bespoke friendly grandma native Apparently after 1911 it was unclear what the national language of China would be — Mandarin or Cantonese — so they took a vote within the new national council (or whatever) and Mandarin beat Cantonese by a single vote. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4110029&forum_id=2#37055441) |
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Date: October 19th, 2018 10:17 AM Author: Swollen whorehouse The concept of "Chinese language" is a linguistic fiction.
They say that a language is a dialect with an army and a navy.
The chinese dialects are so different from each other that some romance "languages" are closer.
The various southern dialects are essentially languages without an army and a navy
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Date: October 19th, 2018 10:34 AM Author: Bespoke friendly grandma native Southern Chinese will tell you that theirs is closer to classical Chinese than the bastardized Mongol dialect (their words not mine) of the north ie Mandarin, and they will demonstrate this by showing that Tang dynasty poetry rhymes when spoken in Canto but not in Mandarin As a gwailo I have no idea (almost no idea, I can pronounce a few hundred characters in Canto) but in view of the northern invasions this seems plausible |
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Date: October 19th, 2018 10:41 AM Author: Swollen whorehouse As a Korean speaker they're right. Most of the Korean/Vietnamese/Japanese pronunciation of the Chinese characters are closer to Cantonese than Mandarin.
Chiang Kai Shek is the canto version of the Mandarin Jiang Jie Shi, but in KOrean his name is koreanized to Jang Gae Seok.
A lot of k sounds became palatalized to j sound- Peking -> Beijing.
Many northerners fled to the south with constant nomadic invasions, so the south did keep a lot of the features of Old and Medieval Chinese. And it was around the Tang dynasty that the chinese characters were spread to Vietnam/Korea etc., so they preserved some of the features of the era, while the North went through a lot of changes due to the Mongol/Jurchen admixture
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Date: October 19th, 2018 10:51 AM Author: Bespoke friendly grandma native As a (almost) non Chinese speaker, I have noticed a few times while in both Korea and Japan that K/J pronunciations of certain characters are closer to the Cantonese pronunciation than the Mandarin pronunciation— can’t remember examples. I wondered idly if the spread of languages happened during the time when classical/southern pronunciations were predominant. Yes, beiJing = bakKing, k—>j also the gutteral “er hua” R R R sound that Canto doesn’t have |
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Date: October 19th, 2018 10:56 AM Author: Swollen whorehouse Yup. I think le tigre might know more about this but I did read some stuff on that KOrean pronunciation of classical chinese is closest to either Cantonese or Hakka.
And since the Hakka are basically northern migrants into southern china dating back to the WEstern Jin, so yeah they definitely preserved a lot of features from medieval chinese |
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Date: October 19th, 2018 11:03 AM Author: Bespoke friendly grandma native This of course is the point where that idiot nyuug launches himself into the thread and declares that because I’m a white know-nothing I can’t possibly have a view I don’t know if the hakka (who yes come from the north) are the driver here, the Cantos would say that their language is the real Chinese and Mandarin is just some interloper from Mongolia. But I don’t have a dog in that fight beyond some basic southern sympathies. |
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Date: October 19th, 2018 11:10 AM Author: Swollen whorehouse Canto is one of MANY languages derived from classical Chinese though.
A rough comparison to Romance languages would be like
Mandarin = French
Hakka & Canto = Somewhere on the spectrum that runs from Italian to Spanish to Portuguese |
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Date: October 19th, 2018 11:20 AM Author: Bespoke friendly grandma native The Cantos would claim (on that analogy) that classical chinese is latin, canto is italian (closest to Latin), jiujou and other Min dialects are french and spanish (related but a step away), and mandarin is a bunch of steps away (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4110029&forum_id=2#37055784) |
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Date: October 19th, 2018 11:26 AM Author: Swollen whorehouse Italian is not closest to Latin fwiw.
Apparently Sardinian is.
I mean just like Italian, I'm sure they *think* that way but in reality nah Italian, Spanish and Portuguese are pretty equidistant from Vulgar Latin of the 3rd-5th centuries |
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Date: October 19th, 2018 11:29 AM Author: Bespoke friendly grandma native Romansch is also quite close if we are talking dialects without an army But you get my point |
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Date: October 19th, 2018 11:22 AM Author: lavender wonderful set (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4110029&forum_id=2#37055794) |
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Date: October 19th, 2018 11:27 AM Author: Bespoke friendly grandma native they are a big part of the chinese populations in Malaysia and Singapore and have some awesome food also some unique Unesco protected architecture around Xiamen in China |
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Date: October 19th, 2018 11:51 AM Author: lavender wonderful set (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4110029&forum_id=2#37056002) |
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Date: October 19th, 2018 11:29 AM Author: Swollen whorehouse Hakka are basically northerners who fled when the northern plains were overrun by nomadic invaders (or so they claim).
They are a group of people who live in southern China and are sort of like Jews in that they have their own subculture and area really closed off to outsiders living in fortified villages.
Their origins are still debated, but linguistically it does seem like they broke off ~1000 years ago from the North to the safer Southern areas which were less developed at the time.
I don't know too much on their culture outside of that tbh - but they do form a considerable part of Chinese diaspora in Southeast Asia as well as Taiwan |
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Date: October 19th, 2018 11:51 AM Author: lavender wonderful set (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4110029&forum_id=2#37056000) |
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Date: October 19th, 2018 11:54 AM Author: Swollen whorehouse History major at HYP who flunked out and graduated w/ a history degree at BIGSTATEU
My main interests were Roman/Byzantine but I'm extremely ADHD and my interests change every few months so I'd go on reading binges. I'm still more on the wide but shallow in terms of knowledge to be a true SCHOLAR though
My senior paper was on the Mongols and KOreans only b/c I had easy access to a lot of primary sources as I can read KOrean and a lot of older texts have been digitized and translated in Korea which was 180.
If I had the discipline to learn languages I'd probably have done something in Byzantine/Roman history and learn Latin & Greek. Hate hate hate taking language classes though so I just took advanced Korean as my only language class in college.
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Date: October 19th, 2018 11:56 AM Author: lavender wonderful set (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4110029&forum_id=2#37056026) |
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Date: October 19th, 2018 10:56 AM Author: lavender wonderful set (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4110029&forum_id=2#37055655) |
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Date: October 19th, 2018 8:17 AM Author: Olive excitant library wrinkle Chinese civil war (Mao v Nationalists) Roman civil war Russian revolution and ensuing civil war Spanish civil war English civil war ???? |
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Date: October 19th, 2018 10:07 AM Author: Swollen whorehouse China is not east vs. west (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4110029&forum_id=2#37055429) |
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Date: October 19th, 2018 8:18 AM Author: know-it-all wine karate dragon English civil war was French Huguenots and Dutch settlers within London and Scotland pillaging freely among the royalist population, so not N vs S (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4110029&forum_id=2#37055108) |
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Date: October 19th, 2018 8:23 AM Author: cowardly newt location err, El Salvador (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4110029&forum_id=2#37055117) |
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Date: October 19th, 2018 10:35 AM Author: Khaki Dysfunction Jewess This very thread is a counterexample (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4110029&forum_id=2#37055549) |
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Date: October 19th, 2018 10:53 AM Author: rose seedy brunch famous landscape painting What’s really weird is that in all those examples it’s the South that’s good and the North that’s evil. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4110029&forum_id=2#37055621) |