Partnership is flame (sort of)
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Poast new message in this thread
Date: November 16th, 2018 9:57 AM Author: supple address roommate
I don't want to hear from non-lawyers or shitlolyers.
Being a partner sucks ass. The concept sounded sweet before it happened: high pay, "respect," control over your work flow, etc.
But once that is achieved, there's literally nothing to look forward to anymore. A position on some BS committee? Managing partner? Lol, well I guess you don't have to bill as much.
-The abrupt change in responsibility and liability is brutal.
-Trying to motivate your associates to do work and be available is brutal (new associates don't have the ITE mentality anymore).
-Getting other teams to help out on your matters is brutal.
-Manually reviewing and negotiating invoices is brutal.
-I didn't realize how much people fought over engagement letters.
As an associate, you can just do good work and not give a crap whether your side wins, or whether a deal closes or not. You can just shut yourself off emotionally and be a good lawyer. But partner, you have to take everything personally. Biglaw associates, enjoy it as long as you can.
Almost makes me wish I had just done a "Of Counsel for life" arrangement.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4134577&forum_id=2#37244196) |
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Date: November 21st, 2018 11:50 PM Author: Cream Startling Set
"I don't want to hear from non-lawyers or shitlolyers."
well 95% of the board is dismissed.
also, making "partner" is a pay cut in 90% of BIGLAW firms until you bring in business. HTH
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4134577&forum_id=2#37281391) |
Date: November 16th, 2018 10:03 AM Author: buff dead black woman brethren
The entire key to BigLaw is seeing a path for yourself to make 7 figs.
If you can't see that, being a senior associate, let alone a junior partner, isn't worth it.
Perhaps it's not worth it even at $2M per year, but it sure as shit isn't worth it as a partner making $550k for years on end.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4134577&forum_id=2#37244227) |
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Date: November 16th, 2018 10:06 AM Author: supple address roommate
What's the point of 7 figs though? Early retirement?
I currently own 2 homes and a vacation property. I don't spend any money at all. I think I'm OK financially.
I'm still in my 30s, so I don't know what else I'd do at my age if I quit biglaw. Too old for FBI or something physically active. Maybe PhD and be a professor somewhere? But probably too old for that too.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4134577&forum_id=2#37244258) |
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Date: November 16th, 2018 10:35 AM Author: supple address roommate
I'm going to have to run some numbers over the weekend I guess.
I'm around half a million right now plus incentives based on revenue generated / billable targets.
I don't want to do this shit (at least not at this level of intensity) for another 20 years. I'm on 200+ billables per month, plus probably 50 hours of admin shit / training / marketing BS. I have literally like zero time for BS when I'm in the office.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4134577&forum_id=2#37244497) |
Date: November 16th, 2018 10:03 AM Author: supple address roommate
Sad life really.
2004/2005 - poasting on xoxohth asking for advice on which law school to go to, where to do SA, which firm and practice to go to.
2018 - wut happened?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4134577&forum_id=2#37244234) |
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Date: November 16th, 2018 10:09 AM Author: supple address roommate
I just made service partner. The weeks building up to it are pretty exciting, and the firm announcement is pretty cool, and you feel warm and fuzzy when everyone comes and congratulates you / people are very nice to you for literally a day.
And then reality kicks in. The first month has just been brutal AF.
Maybe my perspective will change over time.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4134577&forum_id=2#37244286) |
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Date: November 16th, 2018 10:19 AM Author: supple address roommate
Non-equity loser here, so I do whatever work rainmakers give me.
They're always out the door at 6pm and since it's my ass on the line if anything goes wrong, I'm nervously checking and rechecking everything done by every level of associate and going to sleep at like 2am everyday.
And since I now have to deal with a lot of admin BS, which means I'm usually in the office early every morning.
Maybe it's the lack of sleep that's getting me depressed.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4134577&forum_id=2#37244354) |
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Date: November 16th, 2018 10:36 AM Author: supple address roommate
Hit me with some honest suggestions. I'm willing to consider all options at this point.
I'm late 30s, no skills other than law. What alternative careers could I explore? Too old for BigFed at this point.
It sucks b/c I passed on some really fucking good GC/AGC positions that pay a buttload (500Kish) because I was "this close" to partnership and I just wanted to get that "achievement."
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4134577&forum_id=2#37244507) |
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Date: November 16th, 2018 10:42 AM Author: hideous home gaming laptop
looks like u're basically financially independent
u don't "need" an alternative career
u can do whatever the fuck u want
eventually u'll find something u really like to do
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4134577&forum_id=2#37244574) |
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Date: November 16th, 2018 10:49 AM Author: supple address roommate
Don't ask me how I know this, but if I quit today, I could keep my same plan but I would have to pay out of pocket something like $20K / year.
If I don't keep that plan and get something new, I think it's around $30K / year for an entire family.
I don't want to "boom away" my savings on medical premiums and have nothing left for the kids or grandkids.
I'm also paying a buttload on property taxes (although I get some rental income to offset) and will probably have to pay out of the nose for kid's education costs, etc. I think I need another $3 million to feel comfortable retiring, although to be perfectly honest I could downsize, sell everything and live in some small house in ARE COUNTRY, send my kids to the local flagship and probably be fine.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4134577&forum_id=2#37244656) |
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Date: November 16th, 2018 10:56 AM Author: supple address roommate
Yeah I've got a couple hundred K invested across a few funds and my rental which is bringing in close to $5,000 a month.
Maybe I'll just work for a year or two and call it quits and move to Delaware and work some chill F500 inhouse gig.
It's the non-subsidized insurance that really freaks me out tbh. If something goes wrong, there's literally no fallback outside of my savings, which is finite. Investments/property gives rent but those can plummet at any moment.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4134577&forum_id=2#37244714) |
Date: November 16th, 2018 10:56 AM Author: vivacious anal coffee pot
i am also a junior partner and have been doing this for a couple of years.
I experienced something similar but i had already been living that "this is my case" mentality for some time. (the matter i brought in is one of the busiest in the firm and is part of the reason they made me partner).
Also, the other associates in the group already treated me like a "partner" for some time.
Finally, when they made me partner, my pay only increased by a bullshit amount (i.e. 5k above senior associate scale). My bonus was about ~20k more but im not even cracking 500k.
So for me it wasn't so much a change in responsibility, or a change in how others see me, or even a change in pay. No - i have had to continue to bill ~2400 hours per year as well as spend ~500 hours on new business development. Oh and that new business development is now RESENTED by the other non-equity partners. They all either keep trying to claw away a piece of it or block me. Any camaraderie i had with the other non equity partners is now absolutely gone.
The only thing that keeps me going is the hope that at some point it slows down and that i can use the "name" of partner to get another job in a slower group somewhere.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4134577&forum_id=2#37244721) |
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Date: November 16th, 2018 11:05 AM Author: vivacious anal coffee pot
not in any way shape or form.
I have originated ~3M in business this year and on the way to 4+ next year. Im sitting at a 340k base salary. getting fatter. wife hating me more. don't recognize children.
want to kill self.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4134577&forum_id=2#37244810) |
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Date: November 16th, 2018 11:07 AM Author: supple address roommate
WTF how do you have 3M in business and you're a service partner making 340 base?
I may be completely wrong, but at my first firm (V5), which doesn't have non-equity, 3M was the threshold for making partner. 1st year partners there took home like 900K before quickly rising to around 1.5M by year 5 or so...
For your reference, I brought in like 100K this year, getting paid around 500K, but bill a shitload for a lot of clients who like me (but like my rainmakers more, ljl).
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4134577&forum_id=2#37244827) |
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Date: November 16th, 2018 11:14 AM Author: vivacious anal coffee pot
its (primarily) funded plaintiff cases. The client contact is mine, but the fund contact is equity partner's. the origination technically goes to me but i cant really move with it and they know that.
I have other matters that are in the hopper and will also be funded (again where yet another partner is claiming the relationship with the fund).
if any of the cases actually "hit" i could be at 5-10M in origination.
too complicated to move. firm knows im stuck.
I have a very deep pipeline of these cases.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4134577&forum_id=2#37244881) |
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Date: November 16th, 2018 11:03 AM Author: supple address roommate
xo 2005 = S&C, CSM, STB, DPW FTW!
xo 2008 = which firms aren't Lathaming associates?
xo 2010 = which firms are hiring?
xo 2014 = we're back baby! NYC to 170!
xo 2018 = fuck biglaw
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4134577&forum_id=2#37244790)
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Date: November 16th, 2018 11:17 AM Author: Twinkling 180 area mad cow disease
You claimed to have left biglaw to take a small or midlaw position at a relatives firm. Then one month ago you said you would be up for partner in the next year.
So not only are you now not working at your relatives midlaw firm, you are back in biglaw at the same V5 you quit and have now been partner for long enough to make all these assessments.
FFLLLLLLLAAAAAAMMMMMMEEEEEE
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4134577&forum_id=2#37244900) |
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Date: November 16th, 2018 11:20 AM Author: supple address roommate
Get your facts straight:
1) Yes, I left biglaw for my uncle's midlaw firm a few years ago. I didn't poast here for a couple of years afterwards and I moved firms after realizing how much midlaw sucks.
2) I am not at my same old V5 and I am not at a V5 at all. It's still biglaw (between 10-15 offices).
3) I never said I would be up for partner next year - I said by the end of this year. I got the word earlier this month.
4) Reread the OP. I thought partnership would be sweet, but this first month has just sucked and is nothing like I expected it to be.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4134577&forum_id=2#37244925) |
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Date: November 16th, 2018 11:27 AM Author: supple address roommate
Bonus is discretionary - I haven't gotten a bonus check yet so who knows, but I've heard from other non-equities to not get my hopes up.
There is a built in component for revenue generated but I do no marketing so that's going to be essentially $0.
So probably 500k.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4134577&forum_id=2#37244977) |
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Date: November 16th, 2018 11:31 AM Author: supple address roommate
I had a couple of minor shit tossed to me from friends that ended up being like 100K worth of work.
I also helped some equity partners land some deals through beauty contests, and they were nice enough to put my name down on the origination form, but who knows how that will get calculated.
I mean I could go begging to my friends who work at banks or PE who can toss me some BS $15K 34 compliance filing or other nonsense on a whim but not interested in that - too much trouble begging people to work on it and I'm too busy to do the work myself.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4134577&forum_id=2#37245011) |
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Date: November 16th, 2018 11:42 AM Author: supple address roommate
I know I am immediately irreplacable. But what you're missing is that I would be replaced by someone like me, who would also be paid the same.
I don't see why you're having a hard time comprehending. It's basically like an owner of a McDonalds handing over day-to-day operations to a manager that they pay to do all the work for them. That's my function. And that function by definition sucks.
Don't think for a second the firm wouldn't cut my salary in half if they think they could get away with it. They can't, because they need to dangle the carrot of non-equity and 500K in front of the noses of associates so they grind away and do all the work at a quality-level necessary to retain existing clients and bring in new work.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4134577&forum_id=2#37245124) |
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Date: November 16th, 2018 11:52 PM Author: mint contagious liquid oxygen
It's Boogie Down.
He's an 80 IQ Marxist.
I take it he's going with this harsh flame ITT to marshal support for his Marxist cause. Capitalism is so so terrible.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4134577&forum_id=2#37249801) |
Date: November 16th, 2018 11:32 AM Author: bat shit crazy pink shrine karate
It doesn't get any better. Once you get equity, you get thrust into dick measuring contests between rainmakers. That's terrible.
When firm is doing great, it's $$$$, but when firm is sucking, you just get your draw but have to pay taxes like you're making bank.
Passing on inhouse was a big mistake.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4134577&forum_id=2#37245017) |
Date: November 16th, 2018 11:56 AM Author: Hairraiser gas station sound barrier
non equity pship is definitely flame
equity pship is more of the same shit, but at double the pay, so at least there's that
enjoy the rest of your life doing that and having some more money though (which you probably wont bother retiring early on)
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4134577&forum_id=2#37245244) |
Date: November 16th, 2018 11:57 AM Author: drab pervert
Brother, I'm not saying I don't get your scholarship, but you're wrong for two very big reasons.
First, I would gladly trade getting thankless "pls handle" emails at 8 pm that require hours of research and doc review for reviewing invoices and engagement letters (!) at my leisure. Sure, you could get one wrong moved, but you would land somewhere easier than a fired associate or could chill on your stacked cash.
Second, sure, big law associates make nice money. I graduated college ITE, and I'm glad to get paid. But it's nothing like partners. That money is freedom for you. If you have mid seven figures banked, don't like law, and can't figure out something better to do, that's your problem, not something wrong with big law. Move to Santa Barbara and surf or move to Steamboat and work for ski patrol or do any of the many, many things your money allows you to do. Just don't come here looking for sympathy from associates working hard to make another man rich.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4134577&forum_id=2#37245247) |
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Date: November 16th, 2018 12:32 PM Author: supple address roommate
I'm just here to gripe since I can't complain to family, friends or the firm - fair play, probably sounds stupid to associates still grinding.
I will say this about engagement letters and invoices - this is not some leisurely exercise. Clients can be very demanding about engagement letters and will chase you, as will the managing partner.
Invoices are even worse. GCs will frequently demand long conference calls where you have to go line-by-line explaining items they disagree with, and then oftentimes they will request you create tables or excel files linking billed time to actual emails or work product. So you have to go through an invoice for every time entry from like 5 different lawyers over the course of 5 days that was spent doing some nonsense requested by the client like evaluating the strength of an indemnity provision for NY law vs. DE law, manually grouping all of those time charges together in a pro forma invoice and then justifying the time spent in that manner. And of course the GC is just looking for an excuse to get a 5-10% discount, and if you suggest giving that discount to the relationship partner he'll flip a shit asking why you can't manage the client and give you a long lecture about how discounts will be factored into his compensation and how you're fucking him.
You think putting in your time sucks? Try negotiating an invoice with angry GC. LJL
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4134577&forum_id=2#37245588) |
Date: November 16th, 2018 12:20 PM Author: Buck-toothed field regret
How is your comp determined? Dependent on your personal billable or collections at all?
I much prefer being a service partner to a senior associate. I make a lot more money, I work from home whenever I want. Come in and leave whenever I want, and It’s a lot harder to get fired or laid off.
The additional admin stuff is a pain and it reduces your billable, but the independence is nice.
I would say my firm straddles the upper end of midlaw with 150 lawyers and 3 offices.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4134577&forum_id=2#37245470) |
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Date: November 16th, 2018 1:39 PM Author: Buck-toothed field regret
revenue generated is not billables collected?
I guess my question is what is the difference in your comp if you bill 1900 hours versus 2400 hours?
How much do you work now for you $500K all in?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4134577&forum_id=2#37246025) |
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Date: November 16th, 2018 11:43 PM Author: supple address roommate
By revenue generated I mean origination credits.
My firm doesn't have an hourly requirement for base, but the hours are calculated in the bonus component.
To make 500K all in, I would have to have minimal origination credit and bill 2100 hours or so.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4134577&forum_id=2#37249755) |
Date: November 16th, 2018 7:54 PM Author: emerald base masturbator
if there's any doubt left about how awful OP is, just rereading his first post confirms everything.
who the fuck complains that associates don't walk around with terror believing their jobs could be gone in an instant? fucking cruel.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4134577&forum_id=2#37248521) |
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Date: November 16th, 2018 11:50 PM Author: supple address roommate
Lol you're an overdramatic idiot. You somehow went from:
"Trying to motivate your associates to do work and be available is brutal (new associates don't have the ITE mentality anymore)" to "walking around in terror."
You obviously don't work in biglaw. Here's how it plays out IRL:
-You call a 2nd year associate staffed on your deal to reflect comments received from client at 9pm, who is asking for a revised draft by the morning. 2nd year associate does not pick up the phone. You send an email, there is no response after 2 hours. You end up doing it yourself.
-You ask a 4th year associate if they are available to help out on something on the weekend. Sorry, they have plans.
-A 3rd year associate hands you a POS draft at 5:30pm on Friday. You open up the file and it is completely wrong and filled with retarded typos, like wrong parties. You call 3rd year at 6:15pm to ask him to redo. He's out the door and has an important dinner appointment and won't be able to work on it until Saturday afternoon.
Basic shit like ownership and responsibility for your work is all I expect. But you, retard, seem to think "here's my shit it's off my hands you fix it Mr. Partner" is an acceptable attitude to have.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4134577&forum_id=2#37249795)
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Date: November 19th, 2018 12:27 AM Author: vengeful appetizing police squad
i am a senior associate (up for partner next year) at a firm where the culture encourages associates to say no to work requests, so i have to be nice to every single person, even if their work is garbage.
if someone's work is bad in a fixable way and they seem like they are interested in improving, i'll tell them nicely, but if someone just fucks off without notice or just generally does a terrible job on everything, i have zero incentive to do much about it. I could yell at them but that will just make me seem like an asshole. I could give them a really nasty review but that has a risk of blowback (maybe her mentor is some important partner). If someone sucks I just try to avoid working with them and give candid feedback if asked explicitly, and I think it's pretty clear other associates and junior partners do the same thing, so the end result is that crappy associates stick around for years until their hours are really bad for a long period or they just quit.
it is terrible and passive-aggressive but when i was a junior associate i worked for a V5 firm with assholes who loved yelling at associates for fuckups, and that was really horrible as a junior associates, and even good associates really hated it and would quit routinely.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4134577&forum_id=2#37261512) |
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Date: November 17th, 2018 2:17 PM Author: swollen abnormal multi-billionaire plaza
Based on your posting, they prob just hate working for you and you don’t have enough seniority and influence alone to force them to work.
I am one of the many who never had any intention of staying in biglaw and went about 5 years before I went into a unicorn in house job, but I never blew off work from any senior associate or partner who actually commanded respect and/or was good to work for. I worked for some total dicks too, but did that because they were important partners or senior associates/junior partners who work closely with important partners such that you didn’t want to get on their bad side.
I did blow off work from more senior people whom I knew had no power to get me fired and were just total dicks. Guessing you’re lumped into those.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4134577&forum_id=2#37251937) |
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Date: November 17th, 2018 2:47 PM Author: supple address roommate
How is this brutal? Associates at biglaw don't get to "choose" client deadlines and who they work for.
You assume it's totally fine for associates to have a "switch" where they go from drafting mastermind to a babbling retard who can't even press F7 before sending a document for review. A minimum level of professionalism, courtesy and competence is all I expect.
Unless of course you think it's meant as a literal "fuck you" to me, in which case, said associate should just save everyone the trouble and lateral as soon as possible.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4134577&forum_id=2#37252114) |
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Date: November 17th, 2018 2:35 PM Author: supple address roommate
Take this for what you will, but we do "reverse" evaluations and mine have always been stellar. I actually take the time out to help people with questions or if they're doing something incorrectly I'll discreetly fix shit for them and let them know how to do it right next time (like why would you leave the notice details blank when the client sent us the fucking termsheet with all that info, oh I know why b/c it's tedious and mindnumbing work I get it). I'm also one of the most requested "mentors."
Even if we assume you are correct in that I'm a terrible human being (which I don't entirely deny), my team is one of the most profitable at the firm and the rainmaker that I work for is next in line for managing partner and has gotten many people fired, so your logic doesn't apply. I don't get how an associate can just blow off work when I ask them to do something and the rainmaker's name is on the cc line, thinking it's cool to not bother sending an acknowledgment or ETA and revert back a day later with a typo-riddled piece of shit that I have to redo.
Some associates literally just don't GAF and don't want to bill 2200+ hours a year. This isn't just something that I personally gripe about either, several other partners have been bitching about associates not being what they used to be. Back in 2008-2012 ITE, you'd have maybe 1 guy like that at a firm. Now it seems there's 1-3 slackers in every class year. Admittedly in a class size of 30-50 that's not too bad, but you can't avoid them either.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4134577&forum_id=2#37252047) |
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Date: November 17th, 2018 2:40 PM Author: vivacious anal coffee pot
i can confirm every partner today knows that millennials are shit. none of them have work-ethic.
Basically, today's legal economy was grown on the backs of ITE-associates who were terrified of losing their jobs and worked ridiculous hours. Even before ITE, associates had some work ethic.
It is tough to get associates to commit to giving quality work product an they burn out a lot faster. Basically none of them care about making money anymore and GC can't trap them into being servile associates. FWIW it just makes it harder at the senior levels because we can't reliably push work down. takes a lot of hand-holding and following up.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4134577&forum_id=2#37252079) |
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Date: November 17th, 2018 12:54 PM Author: vivacious anal coffee pot
they set you up with a loan from a bank that you can pay back over time at low interest.
lot of firms min buy-in is like 500k. usually by the time a partner gets to the higher ranks he/she has a couple mil tied up in "equity"
this keeps partners from leaving because, a lot of times, the payback for equity is over ~5 years. I think my firm has a 5 year payback.
Since you are elevated to an "owner" of the business, you need to buy a part of it.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4134577&forum_id=2#37251473) |
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Date: November 28th, 2018 8:05 AM Author: vivacious anal coffee pot
then you don't understand partnerships. all partnerships require an equity stake/contribution.
i think if they just "gave" you the equity contribution you would have to immediately pay income tax on it.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4134577&forum_id=2#37313502) |
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Date: November 17th, 2018 2:41 PM Author: vivacious anal coffee pot
yeah that was me. While the business is "mine," the portability is fleeting. Once the cases get going, they are almost impossible to move (for anyone).
That's not to say i couldn't just go replicate what i am doing here at another firm.
I also have problems with conflicts - i have a conflict with pretty much every company and your standard "biglaw" firm would shit their pants at taking on my conflict footprint. my firm also knows that.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4134577&forum_id=2#37252088) |
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Date: November 17th, 2018 2:52 PM Author: vivacious anal coffee pot
comes with the territory. want to make all this money from suing all these companies, but that means a tranny lawyer with a buddy in-house can't make his 100k/yr bullshit work.
Also oftentimes its a big named partner who says they have a good connection and "expect" to represent (e.g. walmart) in the near future and need room to "build" the firm.
Wish i could just go solo but the funded litigation model doesn't really work in that context. need a "deep bench" to justify the funding costs even though its just me anyway.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4134577&forum_id=2#37252148) |
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Date: November 17th, 2018 5:01 PM Author: vivacious anal coffee pot
ive had some soft offers from midlaw. i do mostly funded litigation and selling the fund on the midlaw firm is a problem. i am not "old" enough to be the draw.
im basically stuck for the time being. they are paying me what they think they can get away with =/
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4134577&forum_id=2#37252961)
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