where have you been

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4136883&forum_id=2#37260889)

the "real story" also sounds like fake news too. the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. how could they take off without anyone knowing?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4136883&forum_id=2#37260960)

El Al absolutely can land and otherwise operate in israel on shabbat like every other airline does but it chooses not to

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4136883&forum_id=2#37262045)

HCM knows this and says the same thing. you're just aspie'ing over the definition of "can"

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4136883&forum_id=2#37262539)

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/254844

where do we draw the line between pikuach nefesh for ONE person and chillul shabbat for a large number of people? would pikuach nefesh for one jewish life always take priority over chillul shabbat for the entire klal yisroel?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4136883&forum_id=2#37261111)

i dunno tho. i tend to think that rav yitzak yosef knows what he's doing, and i haven't seen any chatter that anyone thinks what he did was the least bit controversial.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4136883&forum_id=2#37261193)

What's his moniker

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4136883&forum_id=2#37261116)

https://www.yeshiva.co/ask/?id=6803

https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/heaven-and-hell-in-jewish-tradition/

https://www.jewishboston.com/ive-always-read-that-jews-dont-believe-in-the-concept-of-hell-is-that-true/

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4136883&forum_id=2#37264299)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4136883&forum_id=2#37261218)

second, i just looked up LY 2, and see that it arrives at 11.50am. shabbat starts at 4:30pm these days. that's not enough of a buffer, considering time to get through immigration and get luggage and get home, so i would consider taking that flight irresponsible. however, you seem to be saying that arriving at all on friday is irresponsible. if the flight came in at 9am or 10am, i wouldn't consider that irresponsible by any means. that's enough of a buffer for all but the most extreme delays. or in the summer, when shabbat starts at 7:30pm, it's fine to take that flight.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4136883&forum_id=2#37261517)

And if these dudes are going to be so riled up that they start a riot on a fucking flight, they should take extreme caution in booking their travel, or should shut the fuck up and deal with the consequences if things go awry.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4136883&forum_id=2#37262030)

i was stuck in israel during the fucking arab spring. my plane's engine broke on a saturday and United could not fix it. I flipped out and cursed off everyone in that forsaken country.

I got a flight out to Frankfurt and stayed the night in Germany.

f that place.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4136883&forum_id=2#37261523)

it means that united didn't have the appropriate mechanic or the correct part ready. that's united's fault, and has nothing to do with shabbat.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4136883&forum_id=2#37261590)

they can get jobs at other airlines if they dont want to accommodate these savages.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4136883&forum_id=2#37267240)

They're constantly standing up causing a commotion demanding shit.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4136883&forum_id=2#37261942)

https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Passengers-from-nightmare-EL-AL-flight-demand-NIS-9-million-572489

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4136883&forum_id=2#37280239)

Flight 002 from New York to Tel Aviv last Thursday was severely delayed. A series of events unfolded in which religious passengers were upset due to the actions and attitudes of the flight staff.

BY JEREMY SHARON NOVEMBER 22, 2018 01:09

2 minute read.

> ‘We were kidnapped by El Al’ say passengers on horror flight from New York

> Passengers on 'nightmare' NY flight mulling legal action against El Al

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Passengers from nightmare EL AL flight demand NIS 9 million

File photo of an EL AL Boeing 777 aircraft at Ben Gurion International Airport near Tel Aviv, Israel July 14, 2015. REUTERS/Nir Elias/File Photo. (photo credit: REUTERS/NIR ELIAS)

Some 180 passengers on the nightmare El Al flight from New York to Tel Aviv last week have demanded monetary compensation from the company and an apology, claiming that the airlines lied and that passengers suffered monetary loss and distress on the flight.

On Tuesday, Attorneys Tamar Falk and Amit Hadad sent a letter to El Al on behalf of the 180 religious passengers aboard, demanding a public statement that none of the passengers had been violent, as El Al initially claimed, and that the company return the passengers’ money and provide damages for the sum of NIS 50,000 per person.

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Flight 002 from New York to Tel Aviv last Thursday was severely delayed. A series of events unfolded in which religious passengers were upset due to the actions and attitudes of the flight staff and crew.

The delays led religious passengers to request they be allowed to get off the plane, so as to not violate Shabbat. The flight would not arrive in Israel before the Sabbath began.

The plane eventually diverted to Athens. Religious passengers were allowed to get off before Shabbat began, while non-religious passengers were taken to Israel via Israir Airlines.

Following the flight, El Al issued a statement alleging that “a group of haredim” requested to get off the plane and “exercised heavy and violent pressure against the cabin crew” in seeking to disembark.

A number of non-religious passengers posted on their Facebook pages denouncing the behavior of the religious passengers and even alleging that there had been violent acts, although it is unclear whether they witnessed physical violence.

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Several videos taken aboard the plane have surfaced but none demonstrate any violence from passengers, although some show loud and vehement remonstrations with the cabin crew.

On Wednesday, Israel Hayom reported that El AL CEO Gonen Ussishkin had spoken with a “senior rabbinic figure” who had been aboard the flight and admitted that there had not been any violence on board. Ussishkin told the rabbi, “I never said that haredim attacked or went wild on the flight. There wasn’t any physical violence.”

One rabbi aboard the plane was Rabbi Shalom Ber Sorotzkin, head of the Ateres Shlomo Yeshiva in Jerusalem.

According to the letter to El Al, Sorotzkin was told by the flight crew before takeoff that the plane would be taking a quicker flight path to Israel and would therefore arrive before Shabbat.

Sorotzkin then relayed the message to the worried religious passengers and asked them to sit down so the plane could take off.

Only several hours into the flight were they informed that it would be impossible to arrive before Shabbat, and were briefed that religious passengers would be dropped off in Athens.

A spokesman for El Al said the company would not comment any further on the matter until a committee of inquiry was established and issued a report.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4136883&forum_id=2#37296389)

https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Haredi-rabbi-threatens-El-Al-boycott-unless-company-apologizes-572710

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4136883&forum_id=2#37295103)

Cabin crew insists passengers were indeed violent

BY JEREMY SHARON NOVEMBER 24, 2018 22:35

2 minute read.

> ‘We were kidnapped by El Al’ say passengers on horror flight from New York

> Passengers from nightmare EL AL flight demand NIS 9 million

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Haredi rabbi threatens El Al boycott unless company apologizes

El Al is heading overseas in a bid to recruit more possible candidates.. (photo credit: Courtesy)

Prominent haredi figure Rabbi Shalom Ber Sorotzkin, who was on the infamous El Al flight 002 from New York to Tel Aviv earlier this month, has threatened to call for a boycott against the airline unless it publicly apologizes by Sunday for questionable actions taken during the flight.

In his letter, the rabbi, who heads the Ateret Shlomo network of some 40 institutions of religious education, thanked El Al director Gonen Ussishkin for meeting with him last week, but said that a week has passed since the flight during which the Shabbat observant community had been “slandered” and that El Al itself had tried “to incite” and “arouse division” within the Jewish people.

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“I wish to inform you that following negotiations over the last few days in which the disparagement of those who observe Shabbat and tradition has continued, if an unambiguous apology is not forthcoming by Sunday evening… we will be forced to work within the holy [haredi] community towards a preference for other airlines who do not discriminate between different people, do not belittle that which is beloved and holy to the people of God and [who] appreciate their principles ” wrote Sorotzkin to Ussishkin on Friday.

Last Thursday, Flight 002 from New York to Tel Aviv was severely delayed. Although religious passengers requested to get off the plane before it took off so as to avoid flying during Shabbat, the flight took off with the captain promising to arrive in Israel before Shabbat would begin.

Two non-religious passengers, and subsequently the airline itself, accused religious passengers of being physically violent toward the flight attendants as they remonstrated with them to be let off following the in-flight announcement that they would not arrive on time.

Numerous other passengers said subsequently that there had been no violence whatsoever. A report in the Israel Hayom newspaper stated that Ussishkin admitted to “a senior rabbinic figure on the flight” in a private telephone conversation – presumably Sorotzkin – that the passengers had not been violent.

On Thursday however, one of the flight attendants who was aboard flight 002 insisted that the religious passengers had indeed been violent.

“Now they [El Al] are saying that there wasn’t any violence in order not to damage the company,” a flight attendant told Channel 10 News.

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“It isn’t possible to refute a team of 12 staff members who say they did experience violence and to say it never happened,” said the flight attendant, whose name was not made public.

“The company wants to protect itself,” she continued in reference to possible boycotts from the haredi sector. “One moment it is on the side of the employees and the next moment it says something different out of fear that it will lose customers.”

Some 150 of the passengers aboard Flight 002 have already threatened El Al with a NIS 9 million lawsuit for compensation and damages suffered because of their experiences on the flight.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4136883&forum_id=2#37296391)