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Discuss Changes in Biglaw Past Decade

1. "Going to the printers" does not seem to be a &...
aphrodisiac puce market
  12/09/18
Best and the brightest now opting for tech industry due to m...
translucent tantric area wrinkle
  12/09/18
Yeah very tough to recruit out of law school now. Most law ...
Amethyst sex offender
  12/09/18
(Morticia Shekelstein)
Razzmatazz awkward gay wizard
  12/09/18
...
cordovan half-breed
  12/10/18
I laughed.
territorial salmon center voyeur
  12/12/18
...
cerise kitchen ape
  12/09/18
The age of the female lawyer
Razzmatazz awkward gay wizard
  12/09/18
Re #2, i fucking hate these faggot boomers who still use del...
spectacular gay generalized bond
  12/09/18
Kirkland poaching partners
Shivering National Security Agency
  12/09/18
The big "change" has been that demand for legal se...
translucent tantric area wrinkle
  12/09/18
2008: sense that the firm was a living place worthy of growt...
cerise kitchen ape
  12/09/18
Yup, I think this is right. Also: now almost no associates a...
alcoholic marketing idea faggot firefighter
  12/10/18
$100k signing bonuses.
Flirting wonderful cumskin
  12/10/18
1. Shrinking of the equity partner class in order to mainta...
alcoholic marketing idea faggot firefighter
  12/10/18
Cr. Partnership track ever lengthening.
bisexual den
  12/10/18
...
Shivering National Security Agency
  12/10/18
cr list. #8 seems very true. Big shift in the past 10-15 y...
insane rehab
  12/10/18
* with boners in said pajama pants rubbing one out in their ...
appetizing sticky public bath trust fund
  12/10/18
...
insane rehab
  12/10/18
http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4153317&mc=6...
appetizing sticky public bath trust fund
  12/10/18
Are boutiques actually 180 or just a shittier version of big...
cordovan half-breed
  12/10/18
Really varies. There are some that advertise only needing 1...
insane rehab
  12/10/18
If you’re one of those bros working out of your garage...
cordovan half-breed
  12/10/18
It seems that way if I stay here, yeah. Just grinding out t...
insane rehab
  12/10/18
Let me rephrase. Do any of the equity partners at these plac...
cordovan half-breed
  12/10/18
oh for sure or pretty close to it - there's no one to call t...
insane rehab
  12/11/18
I haven't seen promotions based on diversity.
aphrodisiac puce market
  12/10/18
birdshits always have to blame their probs and loser life on...
cheese-eating azure affirmative action weed whacker
  12/11/18
cr, this is a myth that has been perpetuated for years yet p...
Ebony rigpig church
  12/11/18
there are a decent amt of diversity promotions to fake partn...
snowy reading party milk
  12/11/18
"decent amount" lol, no there isn't.
ruby stimulating state
  12/12/18
Then you are a retard. Cravath had an all female partner...
massive trip stag film
  12/11/18
LJL at these women being diversity hires (there's only 3). ...
aphrodisiac puce market
  12/11/18
I don’t feel like I’ve been passed over based on...
Exhilarant brilliant space toaster
  12/12/18
Why do talented white associates put up with this? Let&rsquo...
alcoholic marketing idea faggot firefighter
  12/12/18
That’s a concern for sure. I have zero book of busines...
Exhilarant brilliant space toaster
  12/12/18
Because its an easy "go-to" excuse to justify some...
ruby stimulating state
  12/12/18
i feel like all these things were already in full force a de...
appetizing sticky public bath trust fund
  12/10/18
is more analytics a thing now? like legal software
Aromatic hominid garrison
  12/10/18
Lol, no.
alcoholic marketing idea faggot firefighter
  12/10/18
cr. Everything on that front is exactly the same as it was ...
insane rehab
  12/10/18
Man just reading this post made me want to blow my brains ou...
Milky Property
  12/12/18
"[t]ons of parties, people getting blasted every night&...
Zombie-like multi-colored jap faggotry
  12/10/18
Commoditization of biglaw work.
bipolar vivacious point preventive strike
  12/10/18
This. All the big clients hold auctions for 'tranches' of c...
curious shimmering circlehead
  12/10/18
How do u win a bid
cordovan half-breed
  12/10/18
Cf. http://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3735267&mc=...
Shivering National Security Agency
  12/10/18
Cr
curious shimmering circlehead
  12/10/18
This. For work that'll likely exceed $15k, we need to get at...
bronze medicated heaven
  12/11/18
1800 would keep your job. Now it’s 1900.
low-t drab stain
  12/10/18
V100 firms poorly attempting to compete with top tier firms....
Chartreuse locus
  12/10/18
People seem to dress better - less dominance of BB and CT dr...
stirring pale ratface
  12/10/18
Dissapointingly short thread
Comical Painfully Honest Water Buffalo
  12/10/18
Elaborate on #5.
Brass piazza idiot
  12/10/18
Back when I first started the standard uniform was a rather ...
aphrodisiac puce market
  12/11/18
the crushing banality of the op is poetry
Burgundy Indian Lodge Ceo
  12/10/18
biglaw firms EMBRACING shitlibbery, rather than giving it li...
appetizing sticky public bath trust fund
  12/10/18
clients are literally DEMANDING their cases/deals be staffed...
Fragrant peach principal's office
  12/10/18
Yes, it's unreal. Almost any large corp cares about this no...
insane rehab
  12/10/18
was in a client meeting today and uberrainmaker made several...
razzle forum
  12/11/18
SVPs in megacorps are constantly Trumpbashing. The Chamber ...
Aquamarine messiness roast beef
  12/11/18
I get the sense that some practice areas actually require le...
Amethyst sex offender
  12/10/18
Which ones ? (TLS poaster)
cordovan half-breed
  12/10/18
no one has gone to the printers in 15 years. When I was a s...
boyish talking shitlib
  12/11/18
What does that even mean?
Hairraiser Anal Theater
  12/11/18
Sending the final version of the doc to get mass printed for...
bronze medicated heaven
  12/11/18
when offering docs and other docs that are going to be widel...
arousing primrose hall juggernaut
  12/11/18
https://www.nytimes.com/1997/01/06/business/for-financial-pr...
swollen patrolman therapy
  12/12/18
i went to the printers regularly even five years ago
arousing primrose hall juggernaut
  12/11/18
2008 was 10 years ago not 5
Contagious Gaping
  12/11/18
8-10 for me, but same, I went. Bowne off of Page Mill / b...
insane rehab
  12/11/18
You just practice in a shitty, low-rent practice area. Peop...
Aquamarine messiness roast beef
  12/11/18
Devastating
cordovan half-breed
  12/11/18
in my deals, it was like it fell off a cliff in 2014-2015. w...
Silver Violent Newt
  12/12/18
Yeah going to the printers were still fairly common until ju...
aphrodisiac puce market
  12/11/18
are there still "deal toys?"
Fragrant peach principal's office
  12/12/18
I don't understand why overall elite law revenue is shrinkin...
jet-lagged pozpig sanctuary
  12/11/18
people are realizing for 99% of shit, you dont need to hire ...
arousing primrose hall juggernaut
  12/11/18
But PPP doesn't seem to be in bad shape? How is this house o...
jet-lagged pozpig sanctuary
  12/11/18
fewer equity partners
snowy reading party milk
  12/11/18
Because the number of equity partners keeps dropping. Small...
alcoholic marketing idea faggot firefighter
  12/11/18
What happens when they retire/die off?
jet-lagged pozpig sanctuary
  12/11/18
They aren’t replaced. Helps shrink the number of partn...
Comical Painfully Honest Water Buffalo
  12/11/18
They don’t retire.
stirring pale ratface
  12/12/18
It's been growing. Just not as fast as their clients' revenu...
Coral cowardly twinkling uncleanness tattoo
  12/11/18
Profit has been growing (thanks to partner purges and dwindl...
alcoholic marketing idea faggot firefighter
  12/11/18
That's good news economically for the country that there's l...
jet-lagged pozpig sanctuary
  12/11/18
What the fuck are you talking about? Elite law firm revenue ...
massive trip stag film
  12/11/18
Has conference call technology gotten less painful? Any firm...
jet-lagged pozpig sanctuary
  12/11/18
>Why isn't there a browser based legal Google Docs type t...
excitant masturbator black woman
  12/11/18
My firm won’t allow collaborative document editing bec...
alcoholic marketing idea faggot firefighter
  12/11/18
...
cordovan half-breed
  12/11/18
I disagree on this. Last thing i want is multiple people edi...
soul-stirring nursing home
  12/11/18
Its different for lit
Comical Painfully Honest Water Buffalo
  12/11/18
It wouldn’t be useful a lot of the time, but other tim...
Onyx dilemma regret
  12/12/18
What’s wrong with conference call technology.
cordovan half-breed
  12/11/18
," he head-bobbled.
Nighttime slate striped hyena
  12/11/18
WHO JUST JOINED NO YOU GO AHEAD SORRY FINE OK ...
razzle forum
  12/12/18
We do quite a lot of skype video conference calls oddly enou...
aphrodisiac puce market
  12/11/18
With opposing counsel for negotiation?
cordovan half-breed
  12/11/18
Of course not - for kickoff meetings and stuff with clients ...
aphrodisiac puce market
  12/11/18
there's a program called sharepoint that allows multiple peo...
arousing primrose hall juggernaut
  12/11/18
Toys �R� Us bankruptcy lawyers from Kirkland & Ellis...
jet-lagged pozpig sanctuary
  12/11/18
lol, that's $29 a minute or 50 cents a second.
Ebony rigpig church
  12/11/18
And compared to the 4-7% transaction fee an investment bank ...
massive trip stag film
  12/11/18
yeah but in general bankers do more to earn their money on a...
Sick temple digit ratio
  12/29/18
Bankruptcy groups always inflate their numbers because they ...
curious shimmering circlehead
  12/11/18
Pretty sure debtors’ counsel have their fees routinely...
charismatic love of her life
  12/12/18
CR this is why numbers are inflated courts push back less th...
Onyx dilemma regret
  12/12/18
Decline of support staff continues.
Coral cowardly twinkling uncleanness tattoo
  12/11/18
...
alcoholic marketing idea faggot firefighter
  12/11/18
Ruthless consolidation of secretary staff, with many adoptin...
floppy kitty
  12/11/18
Yo do u have a throwaway. Want some career advice
cordovan half-breed
  12/11/18
(biglaw secretary)
Comical Painfully Honest Water Buffalo
  12/11/18
Nah sorry you can ax me on here tho
floppy kitty
  12/12/18
I want a job though. I got good experience
cordovan half-breed
  12/12/18
Huge, huge push to promote more female partners. Not just f...
high-end canary resort
  12/11/18
Awful
Comical Painfully Honest Water Buffalo
  12/11/18
...
erotic yarmulke
  12/11/18
TCR and probably the worst factor for QOL in big firms.
massive trip stag film
  12/11/18
Dumb question here. Where does all the money go? You've go...
confused casino becky
  12/11/18
Yes that is a very a dumb question.
Impertinent sneaky criminal
  12/11/18
Figure average associate billing rate of $750 per hour at to...
Comical Painfully Honest Water Buffalo
  12/11/18
LOL you would be fired at my firm if you had 1700 billables ...
massive trip stag film
  12/11/18
The numbers I listed reflect the top firms, V5, maybe V10, w...
Comical Painfully Honest Water Buffalo
  12/11/18
The busy and profitable groups at those firms have averages ...
massive trip stag film
  12/11/18
Agree, but we are talking averages
Comical Painfully Honest Water Buffalo
  12/11/18
70% realization rate would be considered extremely low for a...
Cream abusive university cuckoldry
  12/12/18
Depends a lot on the practice area. Biglaw work is increasi...
Amethyst sex offender
  12/12/18
1st year billable rate in NYC is now like 525. 10th year is ...
massive trip stag film
  12/11/18
Thanks for the responses to this subthread. So there are on...
confused casino becky
  12/11/18
Depends on the quality of the firm. Obviously leverage drive...
massive trip stag film
  12/11/18
Interesting. From reading XO, I had gotten the idea that th...
confused casino becky
  12/11/18
That will be how things will be in 15-20 years. Firms with o...
Comical Painfully Honest Water Buffalo
  12/11/18
No, that's definitely the case. There's a difference between...
massive trip stag film
  12/11/18
So the average partner is getting the fruit of a few associa...
confused casino becky
  12/11/18
You're talking about 5-10% of the partners. Basically the ma...
massive trip stag film
  12/11/18
There are still firms like debevoise, Dpw and cravath that p...
cordovan half-breed
  12/11/18
This is accurate.
aphrodisiac puce market
  12/11/18
No decent firm is COLLECTING an average of 2100 hours for it...
Comical Painfully Honest Water Buffalo
  12/11/18
Collection of 70% is considered very bad and low. 80-90% is ...
aphrodisiac puce market
  12/11/18
TCR especially litigation covered by insurance. But big law ...
massive trip stag film
  12/11/18
On major matters that last for months or years, we invoice c...
aphrodisiac puce market
  12/11/18
Are you also counting time written off before the bill is se...
Comical Painfully Honest Water Buffalo
  12/12/18
On major matters for big clients, we don't write off any tim...
aphrodisiac puce market
  12/12/18
avoid representing buy side? how is that even possible?
concupiscible wagecucks hell
  12/15/18
There is a company that is going to go for sale soon. You he...
aphrodisiac puce market
  12/16/18
1. Constant availability. No longer just psycho partners exp...
massive trip stag film
  12/11/18
"4. Partnership Track Extended. Used to be 8 years, now...
jet-lagged pozpig sanctuary
  12/11/18
...
cordovan half-breed
  12/11/18
Who is criticizing them? It's acknowledged as a reality. It ...
massive trip stag film
  12/11/18
Sup devry
cordovan half-breed
  12/11/18
If there’s no hope of advancement, they deserve half a...
jet-lagged pozpig sanctuary
  12/11/18
The argument could be made that paying them millions of doll...
massive trip stag film
  12/11/18
It’s not as if $230K in Manhattan is an insane amount ...
jet-lagged pozpig sanctuary
  12/11/18
The average associate is pulling in 300k. Senior associates ...
Comical Painfully Honest Water Buffalo
  12/11/18
this just isn't true. nearly everyone clears out within 3 ye...
plum trump supporter business firm
  12/12/18
Serfification of the profession.
jet-lagged pozpig sanctuary
  12/12/18
The argument could be made that inflating law school tuition...
razzle forum
  12/11/18
Not when the position, “associate,” is treated b...
Comical Painfully Honest Water Buffalo
  12/11/18
And the partners are making millions to do very little of va...
Comical Painfully Honest Water Buffalo
  12/11/18
Jesus Christ this hits home - do we work at the same firm? L...
aphrodisiac puce market
  12/11/18
Why are you internalizing boomer partners exploiting associa...
jet-lagged pozpig sanctuary
  12/11/18
I'm not sure what your point is. The way I see it, curre...
aphrodisiac puce market
  12/11/18
the debt you fucking bootlicker
sadistic theater stage boistinker
  12/11/18
You're an idiot who can't do basic math. Read the OP. I said...
aphrodisiac puce market
  12/11/18
No first year is getting a 100k bonus.
Comical Painfully Honest Water Buffalo
  12/12/18
I really didn't feel like doing a year-by-year analysis, but...
aphrodisiac puce market
  12/12/18
2008 T14 Non-Resident Tuition = $39k; 2018 = $62k. That's a...
sadistic theater stage boistinker
  12/12/18
Why are you using percentages of increases? That's completel...
aphrodisiac puce market
  12/12/18
you use percentages so you can compare changes in cost (tuit...
sadistic theater stage boistinker
  12/12/18
This is utterly idiotic. BRO my laundry expenses increase...
aphrodisiac puce market
  12/12/18
the cost of a law degree is a necessary expense to getting t...
sadistic theater stage boistinker
  12/12/18
This post is absolutely nonsensical. If you want to get ...
aphrodisiac puce market
  12/12/18
The incremental return on the new money investment is lower ...
sadistic theater stage boistinker
  12/12/18
I agree I used an extreme example, but that was in response ...
aphrodisiac puce market
  12/12/18
what was the full salary and bonus scale in 2008 for all cla...
sadistic theater stage boistinker
  12/12/18
2008 was a weird year where skadden offered better bonuses b...
Cream abusive university cuckoldry
  12/12/18
bro, youre gonna have to hold this L.
Pearl razzle-dazzle foreskin people who are hurt
  12/12/18
Housing prices in these places way up too.
jet-lagged pozpig sanctuary
  12/12/18
...
sadistic theater stage boistinker
  12/12/18
Nowhere close to wipe out the incredible salary and bonus ga...
aphrodisiac puce market
  12/12/18
$160,000 10 years ago is worth $186,826 now just using basic...
snowy reading party milk
  12/12/18
CPI includes rental expenses ljl (maybe you got confused bc ...
aphrodisiac puce market
  12/12/18
How does this prove your point? It shows that the bump to 19...
sadistic theater stage boistinker
  12/12/18
The post I was responding to tried to double dip rent by doi...
aphrodisiac puce market
  12/12/18
Yes I understand that it dispenses with the rent issue. But ...
sadistic theater stage boistinker
  12/12/18
It’s a bit disingenuous to take a snapshot as a 2018 a...
Cream abusive university cuckoldry
  12/12/18
thanks, nutella. i think this is probably right. i put mys...
sadistic theater stage boistinker
  12/12/18
You can change the goal posts and whine about 2018 all you w...
aphrodisiac puce market
  12/12/18
Yes you want to argue 2008 v 2018 because those numbers suit...
Cream abusive university cuckoldry
  12/13/18
...
snowy reading party milk
  12/13/18
No, I am doing 2008 vs. 2018 b/c my OP was specifically &quo...
aphrodisiac puce market
  12/14/18
Also LJL at a biglawyer paying $120K more to attend law scho...
aphrodisiac puce market
  12/14/18
Biglaw salaries were raised to $160k in 2006 and benefited c...
Cream abusive university cuckoldry
  12/14/18
I starting off using thr highest NYC numbers for tuition as ...
aphrodisiac puce market
  12/15/18
And if you want to CPI adjust 2008 salaries you need to also...
aphrodisiac puce market
  12/12/18
Any meaningful comparison needs to factor in not just tuitio...
Cream abusive university cuckoldry
  12/12/18
Sorry but no, I am not gojng to try to factor in the vast di...
aphrodisiac puce market
  12/12/18
serious question: did your parents pay for law school?
sadistic theater stage boistinker
  12/13/18
You’re not going to factor in a significant cost of at...
Cream abusive university cuckoldry
  12/13/18
I do actually factor COL in my other posts, I said I wasn't ...
aphrodisiac puce market
  12/16/18
He does litigation and you do M&A: Is it the case for bo...
Shivering National Security Agency
  12/12/18
haha never Even after you make partner they are no longer...
stirring pale ratface
  12/12/18
- Swell in amount of data - Constant availability - Cu...
sadistic theater stage boistinker
  12/11/18
all of this is credited the data on even the small cases ...
razzle forum
  12/11/18
Yes I predicted this when firms laid people off in 2008/9. P...
massive trip stag film
  12/11/18
Most service partners (includes almost all junior partners) ...
snowy reading party milk
  12/12/18
Correct on all points. Good post.
Comical Painfully Honest Water Buffalo
  12/11/18
Very good list. In addition to all of this I would add that...
Rebellious Maize Whorehouse
  12/12/18
180 content creation, including this: >>Their red t...
appetizing sticky public bath trust fund
  12/12/18
sup NYUUG. another 180 massive NYUUG ORIGINAL CONTENT thread...
electric stead
  12/11/18
What happens when the Boomer equity partners retire? The wo...
confused casino becky
  12/11/18
They are trying to duck mandatory retirement ages in partner...
massive trip stag film
  12/11/18
Well then when they die, what happens? This stuff just gets...
confused casino becky
  12/11/18
most of the partners i work with freely admit that they want...
razzle forum
  12/11/18
jfc, killself should be #1 on their list of options
metal double fault
  12/12/18
Tcr. They also are like prisoners with no idea of what they ...
Comical Painfully Honest Water Buffalo
  12/12/18
and i mean think about how we will end up compared to these ...
razzle forum
  12/12/18
lol this is completely credited for my firm.
Amethyst sex offender
  12/12/18
...
jet-lagged pozpig sanctuary
  12/11/18
I haven't noticed this as much, but I do know major corps ar...
aphrodisiac puce market
  12/12/18
In-house groups keep growing, but I don’t know where t...
Comical Painfully Honest Water Buffalo
  12/12/18
The people who would have been <><NO BREAKFASTED>...
snowy reading party milk
  12/12/18
In part, an attempt to bring in low level work. Some departm...
bronze medicated heaven
  12/12/18
No one has mentioned staff attorneys. With decline of asso...
cerise kitchen ape
  12/12/18
the staff attorneys that have been around for years on end a...
arousing primrose hall juggernaut
  12/12/18
The work ethic thing is great news. Millennials have realize...
jet-lagged pozpig sanctuary
  12/12/18
Yes and no. If you are just trying to do a good job for a ...
cerise kitchen ape
  12/12/18
Lmao at group lunches. Those things are torture
cordovan half-breed
  12/12/18
Cracking up at the “well back in my day we used to wor...
stirring pale ratface
  12/12/18
Recent college grads hustle in plenty of other businesses, l...
massive trip stag film
  12/12/18
Ok but 7 years ago partners were saying this about you, and ...
stirring pale ratface
  12/12/18
Sorry but you don't know me and they weren't saying this abo...
massive trip stag film
  12/12/18
lol
stirring pale ratface
  12/12/18
!!!
amber idea he suggested home
  12/12/18
That isn’t true. Classes were smarter and more intere...
cerise kitchen ape
  12/12/18
Sounds like the juniors are making good and sensible decisio...
racy ticket booth mother
  12/12/18
It is a dumb decision if you are taking a job that is notori...
massive trip stag film
  12/12/18
What’s wrong with working from home
cordovan half-breed
  12/12/18
There is nothing wrong with it as long as your job is stay a...
massive trip stag film
  12/12/18
jfc you poor slave keeping up this tough guy routine for you...
racy ticket booth mother
  12/12/18
These aren’t Supreme Court justices though. Biglawyers...
cordovan half-breed
  12/12/18
Lmao at this gen x wagecuck bootlicker
Magical toilet seat
  12/12/18
i'm WFH right now because i was on a call with retards at a ...
Silver Violent Newt
  12/12/18
Supreme Court justices just take off for 10 weeks a year and...
stirring pale ratface
  12/12/18
cr and senators are in their chill flyover hometown "me...
plum trump supporter business firm
  12/12/18
Not doubting that there are many morons and adult children n...
plum trump supporter business firm
  12/12/18
first paragraph is a matter of opinion, but when i got yelle...
Silver Violent Newt
  12/12/18
the permanent frat pledge hazing, "i got yelled at for ...
plum trump supporter business firm
  12/12/18
Yeah agreed, I don't think it gets good work out of my jrs s...
Silver Violent Newt
  12/12/18
Jfc youre like my twin. Mind if I ask firm rank/year? I s...
aphrodisiac puce market
  12/12/18
I too am at a $3m+ PPP firm, and you can be damned sure that...
alcoholic marketing idea faggot firefighter
  12/12/18
Another dramatic change is the billable rates. In 2008, ther...
massive trip stag film
  12/12/18
I'm hearing contradicting things. On one hand, 97% of law is...
jet-lagged pozpig sanctuary
  12/12/18
??? What don’t you get? Clients are using top bigl...
alcoholic marketing idea faggot firefighter
  12/12/18
the clients aren't paying for the paperwork to be filled out...
plum trump supporter business firm
  12/12/18
Lol yup. I’ve had clients hire a cheap firm to actuall...
alcoholic marketing idea faggot firefighter
  12/12/18
A brand licensing service just like POTUS.
jet-lagged pozpig sanctuary
  12/12/18
The Trump Second Addendum to the Master Stock Purchase Agree...
Fragrant peach principal's office
  12/12/18
Every day I thank jeebus I escaped biglaw
fantasy-prone goal in life
  12/12/18
Another difference: firm security. Clients now insist on all...
massive trip stag film
  12/12/18
cr
Silver Violent Newt
  12/12/18
It has also been argued that associates really want to be ...
Adventurous startled psychic
  12/12/18
This is boomer code for “let’s pay associates le...
alcoholic marketing idea faggot firefighter
  12/12/18
ok, this one is very true and is one of the most 120 develop...
snowy reading party milk
  12/12/18
Salaries Effective July 1, 2006, our starting salary ...
Adventurous startled psychic
  12/12/18
“Don't do it.” This was the wise advice o...
Adventurous startled psychic
  12/12/18
LOL at takinging four weeks of vacation and then complaining...
alcoholic marketing idea faggot firefighter
  12/12/18
jfc bootlicker that's standard in Western Europe
jet-lagged pozpig sanctuary
  12/12/18
Right, in that world-leading economy with low unemployment t...
massive trip stag film
  12/12/18
Their GDP per hour worked is equivalent to ours. The QOL imp...
jet-lagged pozpig sanctuary
  12/12/18
i'm sure all the finnish and dutch people who are already on...
plum trump supporter business firm
  12/12/18
(employee with Stockholm Syndrome)
Brass piazza idiot
  12/12/18
Lol, and clients don’t realize that they are paying us...
alcoholic marketing idea faggot firefighter
  12/12/18
there are matters for banks where i was asked to just "...
Fragrant peach principal's office
  12/12/18
...
Comical Painfully Honest Water Buffalo
  12/12/18
Is cooley on the same level as Denton’s, dla, etC? Ass...
cordovan half-breed
  12/12/18
Cooley is obviously far better than Dentons/DLA. They do a l...
aphrodisiac puce market
  12/12/18
Did bros really stay in the office until 2am in war rooms an...
cordovan half-breed
  12/12/18
We still do this lol.
aphrodisiac puce market
  12/12/18
Do u rage afterwards?
cordovan half-breed
  12/12/18
i've done multiple back to back 5ams in IB
swollen patrolman therapy
  12/13/18
To continue the discussion on 2018 vs. 2008 finances, I pres...
aphrodisiac puce market
  12/12/18
https://confoundedinterestnet.files.wordpress.com/2018/07/me...
jet-lagged pozpig sanctuary
  12/12/18
I am talking solely about NYC. I don't know enough about oth...
aphrodisiac puce market
  12/12/18


Poast new message in this thread



Reply Favorite

Date: December 9th, 2018 11:34 PM
Author: aphrodisiac puce market

1. "Going to the printers" does not seem to be a "thing" anymore.

2. Increasing use of Microsoft Word track changes as opposed to deltaview/workshare to run blacklines

3. Massive increase in mega firms like DLA, Dentons, CMS

4. Firms switching to iPhone

5. People seem to dress better - less dominance of BB and CT dress shirts and Park Avenues

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37380606)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 9th, 2018 11:37 PM
Author: translucent tantric area wrinkle

Best and the brightest now opting for tech industry due to massive signing bonuses, salaries, and quality of life.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37380616)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 9th, 2018 11:39 PM
Author: Amethyst sex offender

Yeah very tough to recruit out of law school now. Most law schools are graduating classes of morons.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37380632)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 9th, 2018 11:40 PM
Author: Razzmatazz awkward gay wizard

(Morticia Shekelstein)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37380639)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2018 11:38 PM
Author: cordovan half-breed



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37387000)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 12th, 2018 9:26 AM
Author: territorial salmon center voyeur

I laughed.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37394446)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 9th, 2018 11:52 PM
Author: cerise kitchen ape



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37380708)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 9th, 2018 11:38 PM
Author: Razzmatazz awkward gay wizard

The age of the female lawyer

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37380626)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 9th, 2018 11:38 PM
Author: spectacular gay generalized bond

Re #2, i fucking hate these faggot boomers who still use deltaview. Jfc

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37380627)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 9th, 2018 11:45 PM
Author: Shivering National Security Agency

Kirkland poaching partners

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37380665)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 9th, 2018 11:50 PM
Author: translucent tantric area wrinkle

The big "change" has been that demand for legal services has remained flat since the crash. In-house does more, every practice group is thinner, litigation has outsourced all first level doc review, staff attorney departments have become much bigger.

Growth now comes exclusively at the expense at other firms. Which means enormous guarantees for lateral partners of the kind that led to DL to fail in 08. Next crash should be very interesting.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37380692)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 9th, 2018 11:54 PM
Author: cerise kitchen ape

2008: sense that the firm was a living place worthy of growth and development

2018: firm exists as a borg colony for partners to link up to, then move onward to a different colony if need be.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37380722)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2018 12:10 AM
Author: alcoholic marketing idea faggot firefighter

Yup, I think this is right. Also: now almost no associates are gunning for partner, and the best people all leave to a non-firm job. Don’t really know where the future big law partners will come from. Probably will be from the mediocre associates who couldn’t get a good non-firm gig.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37380815)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2018 12:17 AM
Author: Flirting wonderful cumskin

$100k signing bonuses.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37380861)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2018 10:42 AM
Author: alcoholic marketing idea faggot firefighter

1. Shrinking of the equity partner class in order to maintain/grow PPP

2. Rise of “of counsel” positions and non-equity partnership as a permanent job

3. Decline of grunt work, clients won’t pay for it anymore

4. Permanent shrinking of associate classes

5. Decline of partner quality/of counsel quality resulting from promotions based mainly on diversity

6. Big growth of in-house practice groups

7. Decline of litigation at big law firms in favor of M&A work, which is more profitable and does not create as many conflicts

8. Rising ambivalence among associates, almost none of them are gunning for partner any more

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37382146)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2018 12:53 PM
Author: bisexual den

Cr. Partnership track ever lengthening.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37382963)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2018 1:24 PM
Author: Shivering National Security Agency



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37383124)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2018 1:48 PM
Author: insane rehab

cr list. #8 seems very true. Big shift in the past 10-15 years: Partnership isn't seen as the goal (and I can't blame them; it's true 24/7 shit, the path is longer, and there's so little collegiality once you get there because the concept of the firm is largely dead and you're constantly having to prove yourself and looking over your shoulder at one of your "partners" trying to fuck you with a smile on his face because your mini-group has had a slow quarter while his had a good quarter).

I'd also add:

9. Continuing rise of boutiques and other alternative firm models poaching lower-level biglaw work. Lots of attorneys in the Bay Area and LA working on deals from home in pajama pants.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37383235)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2018 4:36 PM
Author: appetizing sticky public bath trust fund

* with boners in said pajama pants rubbing one out in their WFH garages

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37384226)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2018 7:45 PM
Author: insane rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37385353)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2018 7:55 PM
Author: appetizing sticky public bath trust fund

http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4153317&mc=65&forum_id=2#37385072

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37385419)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2018 7:41 PM
Author: cordovan half-breed

Are boutiques actually 180 or just a shittier version of biglaw?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37385315)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2018 7:45 PM
Author: insane rehab

Really varies. There are some that advertise only needing 1400 hours/year. Others are indistinguishable day-to-day from biglaw.

Same on work product / qualify of attorney front: You run into some desperate people who takes whatever walks in the door and turn out crap or have ridiculous ideas because they have no relevant experience or are working well outside their comfort zone (and unsophisticated clients won't know); others are just like dealing with a biglaw firm that knows what they're doing. Tough to know what you're getting into if you haven't worked with the people before.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37385350)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2018 8:52 PM
Author: cordovan half-breed

If you’re one of those bros working out of your garage, are you basically just accepting permanent of counsel status? You’ll never get brikkfuss?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37385709)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2018 9:03 PM
Author: insane rehab

It seems that way if I stay here, yeah. Just grinding out the work. tbf that's not a terrible fit for my personality.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37385786)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2018 9:28 PM
Author: cordovan half-breed

Let me rephrase. Do any of the equity partners at these places still work from home all the time?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37385973)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2018 3:22 AM
Author: insane rehab

oh for sure or pretty close to it - there's no one to call them out so long as their groups are putting up hours. tbf I don't think they're really "working," and there's no need because they have their little squadrons of me and associates.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37387558)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2018 2:15 PM
Author: aphrodisiac puce market

I haven't seen promotions based on diversity.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37383406)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2018 3:24 AM
Author: cheese-eating azure affirmative action weed whacker

birdshits always have to blame their probs and loser life on minorities

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37387563)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2018 10:30 AM
Author: Ebony rigpig church

cr, this is a myth that has been perpetuated for years yet partnerships at most firms remain 90% straight white males.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37388434)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2018 10:52 AM
Author: snowy reading party milk

there are a decent amt of diversity promotions to fake partner at my firm

almost all get pushed out after a few years of "partnership" though

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37388588)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 12th, 2018 11:21 AM
Author: ruby stimulating state

"decent amount"

lol, no there isn't.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37395034)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2018 10:36 PM
Author: massive trip stag film

Then you are a retard.

Cravath had an all female partnership class this year. Firms are desperate to make female partners. They could give a shit about race, fwiw.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37392898)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2018 11:21 PM
Author: aphrodisiac puce market

LJL at these women being diversity hires (there's only 3).

https://www.cravath.com/Cravath-Announces-New-Partners-11-07-2018/

Why don't you take a look at Sullcrom, Skadden or Simpson.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393098)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 12th, 2018 10:48 AM
Author: Exhilarant brilliant space toaster

I don’t feel like I’ve been passed over based on diversity, but every year there are 2-3 minorities or women made partner and you know it wouldn’t have happened but for race or gender. Like they have zero work, aren’t noticeably better than other senior associates. Some were the type of people that were passed over for the last decade before there was a push for diversity. The firm is pretty up front about it. They hold a “partnership prospects seminar” and have like a 5 factor test and one of the factors is diversity. It’s basically have you brought in work, have you shown you could increase the pie and make all of us more money, are you diverse, do you get along with people.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37394846)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 12th, 2018 11:35 AM
Author: alcoholic marketing idea faggot firefighter

Why do talented white associates put up with this? Let’s just bust out ass for a decade to enable some less talented and less hard working attorneys reap the benefit.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37395158)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 12th, 2018 1:39 PM
Author: Exhilarant brilliant space toaster

That’s a concern for sure. I have zero book of business so any move I make will be way down in terms of take home pay. No one outside of biglaw will pay me 3-400k per year. So I’ll be here licking boots for the foreseeable future.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37395991)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 12th, 2018 11:22 AM
Author: ruby stimulating state

Because its an easy "go-to" excuse to justify someone's inadequate career.

"WELL. . .WELL..I'D BE DOING SO MUCH BETTER IF IT WEREN'T FOR ALL THOSE DIVERSITY HIRES"

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37395042)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2018 4:38 PM
Author: appetizing sticky public bath trust fund

i feel like all these things were already in full force a decade ago, even before ITE.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37384231)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2018 10:52 AM
Author: Aromatic hominid garrison

is more analytics a thing now?

like legal software

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37382180)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2018 12:37 PM
Author: alcoholic marketing idea faggot firefighter

Lol, no.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37382879)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2018 1:51 PM
Author: insane rehab

cr. Everything on that front is exactly the same as it was 15 years ago.

Some startups are using Carta to automate cap tables (which is good) and early financings (which is mixed depending upon what the alternative is), and SAFEs have taken away some early series seed / convertible note deals that used to be a very easy way to collect $10-15K of fees.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37383246)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 12th, 2018 10:41 AM
Author: Milky Property

Man just reading this post made me want to blow my brains out

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37394813)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2018 10:53 AM
Author: Zombie-like multi-colored jap faggotry

"[t]ons of parties, people getting blasted every night"

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37382189)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2018 10:56 AM
Author: bipolar vivacious point preventive strike

Commoditization of biglaw work.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37382206)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2018 12:56 PM
Author: curious shimmering circlehead

This. All the big clients hold auctions for 'tranches' of cases and firms must 'bid.'

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37382977)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2018 1:25 PM
Author: cordovan half-breed

How do u win a bid

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37383129)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2018 1:27 PM
Author: Shivering National Security Agency

Cf.

http://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3735267&mc=34&forum_id=2

http://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3737141&mc=10&forum_id=2

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37383136)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2018 1:37 PM
Author: curious shimmering circlehead

Cr

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37383190)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2018 2:21 AM
Author: bronze medicated heaven

This. For work that'll likely exceed $15k, we need to get at least 3 quotes. It's a pain in the ass. People stop competing in the beauty contests when there's already a clear winner.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37387475)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2018 1:55 PM
Author: low-t drab stain

1800 would keep your job. Now it’s 1900.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37383271)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2018 2:08 PM
Author: Chartreuse locus

V100 firms poorly attempting to compete with top tier firms. Partners just can’t accept living lavishly rich given the cost of living in a secondary market, jealously glance at MFH millionaire part rainmakers, and foolishly raise salaries and billing rates as if just charging and paying like a top tier firm makes you one. QOL therefore suffers horribly (former long term v100 associate here) for all involved.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37383365)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2018 2:21 PM
Author: stirring pale ratface

People seem to dress better - less dominance of BB and CT dress shirts and Park Avenues

what are people wearing instead

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37383442)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2018 3:47 PM
Author: Comical Painfully Honest Water Buffalo

Dissapointingly short thread

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37383936)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2018 3:54 PM
Author: Brass piazza idiot

Elaborate on #5.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37383972)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2018 9:22 PM
Author: aphrodisiac puce market

Back when I first started the standard uniform was a rather ill-fitting brooks brothers suit and those really baggy non-iron shirts, or maybe the CT shirts with lame stripes and patterns that had a very awkward fit. Park Avenues were everywhere.

People these days seem to be wearing better fitting and more classic styled clothes. Less of those zany ugly green stripes or obnoxious checkered shirts, more solid whites and blues, or better striped/checked shirts.

For whatever it's worth, newer associates seem less fat as well.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37392495)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2018 4:40 PM
Author: Burgundy Indian Lodge Ceo

the crushing banality of the op is poetry

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37384241)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2018 4:40 PM
Author: appetizing sticky public bath trust fund

biglaw firms EMBRACING shitlibbery, rather than giving it lip-service

a decade ago, firm management gave diversity and shitlibbery lip service. a useless committee here, a diversity fellowship there. now, firms are following the rest of corporate america and going full-on with the sjw agenda.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37384244)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2018 7:45 PM
Author: Fragrant peach principal's office

clients are literally DEMANDING their cases/deals be staffed with minorities/women now

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37385349)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2018 7:46 PM
Author: insane rehab

Yes, it's unreal. Almost any large corp cares about this now and will need to check boxes to make sure the deal / case team isn't solely white men.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37385363)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2018 1:04 AM
Author: razzle forum

was in a client meeting today and uberrainmaker made several open anti-trump jokes. he's the boss and we were all libs (i think, maybe the service partner wasnt) so who gives af but it was pretty shocking

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37387361)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2018 11:25 AM
Author: Aquamarine messiness roast beef

SVPs in megacorps are constantly Trumpbashing. The Chamber of Commerce types hate Trump the most because they know he broke the GOP permanently.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37388817)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2018 7:50 PM
Author: Amethyst sex offender

I get the sense that some practice areas actually require less working hours now because of all of the commoditization.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37385392)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2018 8:20 PM
Author: cordovan half-breed

Which ones ? (TLS poaster)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37385501)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2018 1:07 AM
Author: boyish talking shitlib

no one has gone to the printers in 15 years. When I was a summer that was already olden days lore.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37387370)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2018 1:32 AM
Author: Hairraiser Anal Theater

What does that even mean?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37387408)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2018 2:29 AM
Author: bronze medicated heaven

Sending the final version of the doc to get mass printed for mass distribution. IPOs and prospectuses used to require mail delivery and such; but, since like the late 90s, companies now satisfy most delivery requirements through electronic means. Printers like RR Donnelley do that now.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37387483)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2018 2:34 AM
Author: arousing primrose hall juggernaut

when offering docs and other docs that are going to be widely distributed are almost ready to go out, they are sent to a 'financial printer' to be typeset in a particular format. this means you can no longer make changes in microsoft word, you need to send the changes you want made to the financial printer, and they will make the change on their typeset system. they typically take much longer to process changes than a lawyer sitting in front of his computer would.

traditionally, the working group would gather at the printers office for the final check of the document, essentially a final drafting session. printing business was lucrative, so the printers would pull out all the stops---great food, booze, playstations, big screen tvs everywhere, massage chairs etc, to make people want to choose them as the printers. now everyone just sends pdf markups and handles this all remotely. also, people realize these printers are ripoffs, so competitors have come into the marketplace

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37387490)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 12th, 2018 9:19 AM
Author: swollen patrolman therapy

https://www.nytimes.com/1997/01/06/business/for-financial-printers-it-is-adapt-or-die.html

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37394427)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2018 2:30 AM
Author: arousing primrose hall juggernaut

i went to the printers regularly even five years ago

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37387484)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2018 3:25 AM
Author: Contagious Gaping

2008 was 10 years ago not 5

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37387564)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2018 3:25 AM
Author: insane rehab

8-10 for me, but same, I went.

Bowne off of Page Mill / basically on the Wilson Sonsini campus.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37387565)



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Date: December 11th, 2018 11:26 AM
Author: Aquamarine messiness roast beef

You just practice in a shitty, low-rent practice area. People still went to the printers on plenty of 33 Act stuff right up to ITE.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37388821)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2018 11:44 AM
Author: cordovan half-breed

Devastating

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37388970)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 12th, 2018 10:49 AM
Author: Silver Violent Newt

in my deals, it was like it fell off a cliff in 2014-2015. we stopped printing physical prospectuses bc banks didn't want physical books any longer. every deal in 2013 printed books, no deal in 2016 did

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37394848)



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Date: December 11th, 2018 9:23 PM
Author: aphrodisiac puce market

Yeah going to the printers were still fairly common until just a few years ago.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37392504)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 12th, 2018 9:22 PM
Author: Fragrant peach principal's office

are there still "deal toys?"

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37398766)



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Date: December 11th, 2018 3:27 AM
Author: jet-lagged pozpig sanctuary

I don't understand why overall elite law revenue is shrinking when corporations are gangbusters with record revenue and profits and shit.?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37387567)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2018 3:50 AM
Author: arousing primrose hall juggernaut

people are realizing for 99% of shit, you dont need to hire a V5 (and even if you do, youre getting no partner attention on a cookie cutter deal, so why even bother hiring V5), so price competition continues to be a huge issue

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37387589)



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Date: December 11th, 2018 3:56 AM
Author: jet-lagged pozpig sanctuary

But PPP doesn't seem to be in bad shape? How is this house of crypto being propped up?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37387597)



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Date: December 11th, 2018 10:26 AM
Author: snowy reading party milk

fewer equity partners

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37388403)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2018 5:12 PM
Author: alcoholic marketing idea faggot firefighter

Because the number of equity partners keeps dropping. Smaller pie.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37391043)



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Date: December 11th, 2018 5:56 PM
Author: jet-lagged pozpig sanctuary

What happens when they retire/die off?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37391310)



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Date: December 11th, 2018 10:20 PM
Author: Comical Painfully Honest Water Buffalo

They aren’t replaced. Helps shrink the number of partners.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37392820)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 12th, 2018 8:02 AM
Author: stirring pale ratface

They don’t retire.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37394254)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2018 11:24 AM
Author: Coral cowardly twinkling uncleanness tattoo

It's been growing. Just not as fast as their clients' revenues.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37388809)



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Date: December 11th, 2018 5:13 PM
Author: alcoholic marketing idea faggot firefighter

Profit has been growing (thanks to partner purges and dwindling promotions) but demand has remained flat.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37391054)



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Date: December 11th, 2018 5:56 PM
Author: jet-lagged pozpig sanctuary

That's good news economically for the country that there's less dead weight dragging down the economy!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37391311)



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Date: December 11th, 2018 10:39 PM
Author: massive trip stag film

What the fuck are you talking about? Elite law firm revenue and profit is growing and will hit a post-ITE record this year. Mark my words.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37392919)



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Date: December 11th, 2018 3:31 AM
Author: jet-lagged pozpig sanctuary

Has conference call technology gotten less painful? Any firms use Slack yet?

Why isn't there a browser based legal Google Docs type thing for law that was secure and easy to collaborate on?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37387574)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2018 4:54 AM
Author: excitant masturbator black woman

>Why isn't there a browser based legal Google Docs type thing for law that was secure and easy to collaborate on?

That’s basically office 365, but its online word platform is almost as bad as google docs at handling modestly complex formatting

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37387690)



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Date: December 11th, 2018 5:15 PM
Author: alcoholic marketing idea faggot firefighter

My firm won’t allow collaborative document editing because it “would violate their security requirements.” I.e. it would make us more efficient and therefore reduce billable hours.

Biglaw has an incentive to NOT update its technology until it become absolutely necessary.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37391063)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2018 8:03 PM
Author: cordovan half-breed



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37392127)



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Date: December 11th, 2018 9:43 PM
Author: soul-stirring nursing home

I disagree on this. Last thing i want is multiple people editing at once. For quality reasons obvious to any tranny associate this would be horrible.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37392624)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2018 11:52 PM
Author: Comical Painfully Honest Water Buffalo

Its different for lit

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393261)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 12th, 2018 12:03 PM
Author: Onyx dilemma regret

It wouldn’t be useful a lot of the time, but other times it would be. Tax etc and the rest can plug in their stuff instead of sending me comments which I ineptly build in. Absurd they don’t have this feature.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37395374)



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Date: December 11th, 2018 8:04 PM
Author: cordovan half-breed

What’s wrong with conference call technology.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37392134)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2018 10:31 PM
Author: Nighttime slate striped hyena

," he head-bobbled.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37392863)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 12:15 AM
Author: razzle forum

WHO JUST JOINED

NO YOU GO AHEAD

SORRY

FINE

OK

NO GO AHEAD

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393428)



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Date: December 11th, 2018 9:23 PM
Author: aphrodisiac puce market

We do quite a lot of skype video conference calls oddly enough.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37392499)



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Date: December 11th, 2018 9:47 PM
Author: cordovan half-breed

With opposing counsel for negotiation?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37392650)



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Date: December 11th, 2018 9:54 PM
Author: aphrodisiac puce market

Of course not - for kickoff meetings and stuff with clients who are too far away for face-to-face meetings.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37392699)



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Date: December 11th, 2018 9:51 PM
Author: arousing primrose hall juggernaut

there's a program called sharepoint that allows multiple people to edit at the same time, but it sucks because you dont necessarily know who is editing what and could get blindsided by some changes

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37392676)



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Date: December 11th, 2018 4:06 AM
Author: jet-lagged pozpig sanctuary

Toys �R� Us bankruptcy lawyers from Kirkland & Ellis said in a court filing last year that they were charging as much as $1,745 an hour in the case. That was 25 percent more than the average highest rate in 10 of the largest bankruptcies in 2017, according to an analysis by The New York Times.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/05/11/business/toys-r-us-bankruptcy.html

Doesn't seem like an industry in peril.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37387607)



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Date: December 11th, 2018 10:33 AM
Author: Ebony rigpig church

lol, that's $29 a minute or 50 cents a second.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37388452)



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Date: December 11th, 2018 10:41 PM
Author: massive trip stag film

And compared to the 4-7% transaction fee an investment bank would charge for fewer hours worked with less credentialed employees, it's a pittance.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37392929)



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Date: December 29th, 2018 6:22 PM
Author: Sick temple digit ratio

yeah but in general bankers do more to earn their money on a deal than rent seeking paper pushers, however “credentialed”

i find the idea of corporate lawyers justifying their existence/fees personally offensive

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37493507)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2018 11:18 AM
Author: curious shimmering circlehead

Bankruptcy groups always inflate their numbers because they know the court will slash it.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37388771)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 11:17 AM
Author: charismatic love of her life

Pretty sure debtors’ counsel have their fees routinely paid in full.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37394999)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 12:05 PM
Author: Onyx dilemma regret

CR this is why numbers are inflated courts push back less than clients.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37395385)



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Date: December 11th, 2018 11:27 AM
Author: Coral cowardly twinkling uncleanness tattoo

Decline of support staff continues.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37388835)



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Date: December 11th, 2018 5:08 PM
Author: alcoholic marketing idea faggot firefighter



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37391006)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2018 9:52 PM
Author: floppy kitty

Ruthless consolidation of secretary staff, with many adopting a team based format.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37392683)



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Date: December 11th, 2018 10:00 PM
Author: cordovan half-breed

Yo do u have a throwaway. Want some career advice

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37392727)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2018 10:19 PM
Author: Comical Painfully Honest Water Buffalo

(biglaw secretary)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37392815)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 12th, 2018 6:31 AM
Author: floppy kitty

Nah sorry you can ax me on here tho

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37394101)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 8:18 AM
Author: cordovan half-breed

I want a job though. I got good experience

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37394282)



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Date: December 11th, 2018 10:45 PM
Author: high-end canary resort

Huge, huge push to promote more female partners. Not just for the sake of numbers. In-house is increasingly dominated by women in leadership roles (although often not rising to full GC), who want to hire women, plus bigcorps are full of diversity mandates for outside vendors.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37392943)



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Date: December 11th, 2018 10:50 PM
Author: Comical Painfully Honest Water Buffalo

Awful

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37392964)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2018 10:55 PM
Author: erotic yarmulke



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37392995)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2018 10:58 PM
Author: massive trip stag film

TCR and probably the worst factor for QOL in big firms.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393015)



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Date: December 11th, 2018 10:54 PM
Author: confused casino becky

Dumb question here. Where does all the money go? You've got lots of associates billing 2000 hours a year at what? $400, $500 per hour or more? A million dollars a year in revenue?

The associates obviously ain't getting a million dollars a year or anywhere close to that. Some has to go to overhead, but is overhead really all that much? Are there just lots of equity partners barely working and making millions off the associates?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37392985)



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Date: December 11th, 2018 10:59 PM
Author: Impertinent sneaky criminal

Yes that is a very a dumb question.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393019)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2018 11:02 PM
Author: Comical Painfully Honest Water Buffalo

Figure average associate billing rate of $750 per hour at top firms

Most associates at top firms bill about 1700 to real billable work (in subtracting pro bono).

Realization rate is probably 70% (amount that is actually billed and collected from clients)

So (750*1700)*.7 = $892,000 per associate. Pay the associates an average of 300,000, left with 592,000, subtract other overhead (at least 150,000 a head) that’s 442,000 a head profit.

If PPP is 3 million, then you need about 6 associates with these figures to pay one partner. 6 to 1 leverage is VERY rare these days though.

Of course the partner will bill too. Figure $1500 per hour for 1,500 billables, that’s 2.25 mil. So 1 busy partner plus two associates can do it.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393033)



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Date: December 11th, 2018 11:10 PM
Author: massive trip stag film

LOL you would be fired at my firm if you had 1700 billables and a 70% realization rate. Our average was like 2050 last year and that includes people on maternity leave, etc. But those numbers make sense for shit biglaw firms.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393062)



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Date: December 11th, 2018 11:35 PM
Author: Comical Painfully Honest Water Buffalo

The numbers I listed reflect the top firms, V5, maybe V10, where many associates are pushing $1,000 an hour and partners $2,000 an hour. When you get down to your average sweatshop like White & Case or whatever, then yes 2000+ plus is the norm.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393172)



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Date: December 11th, 2018 11:42 PM
Author: massive trip stag film

The busy and profitable groups at those firms have averages that are 2,000 plus, often 2,100 plus.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393207)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2018 11:44 PM
Author: Comical Painfully Honest Water Buffalo

Agree, but we are talking averages

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393223)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 12th, 2018 9:36 AM
Author: Cream abusive university cuckoldry

70% realization rate would be considered extremely low for a big law firm

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37394503)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 7:43 PM
Author: Amethyst sex offender

Depends a lot on the practice area. Biglaw work is increasingly becoming commoditized, often fixed fee or capped fee arrangements. But 70% is a lot more common than it used to be.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37398248)



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Date: December 11th, 2018 11:08 PM
Author: massive trip stag film

1st year billable rate in NYC is now like 525. 10th year is 950. Partner 1000-1500.

A first year bills 2200. Firm collects 2100 hours. $1.1 M. Salary and bonus is 200k. Of remaining 900k, 200-350k goes to firm overhead (benefits, support staff, office space, debt, etc.). 540k in profit left, but has to be split many ways.

Yes, there are equity partners who are barely working, but most of them are busting ass trying to get new business that the firm can service, and trying to put in enough face time for current clients not to fire them.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393053)



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Date: December 11th, 2018 11:22 PM
Author: confused casino becky

Thanks for the responses to this subthread. So there are only a few associates per equity partner?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393102)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2018 11:30 PM
Author: massive trip stag film

Depends on the quality of the firm. Obviously leverage drives profits. "Nice" firms are like 2.2-3.2 associates per partner. Beyond that, places become sweatshops. At places like Quinn, where it is over 5:1, you have no shot of making partner at all. They are simply run to enrich existing equity partners.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393139)



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Date: December 11th, 2018 11:33 PM
Author: confused casino becky

Interesting. From reading XO, I had gotten the idea that there were armies of associates billing at all times, making a tiny number of partners rich. But I couldn't figure out how the numbers would work.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393158)



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Date: December 11th, 2018 11:39 PM
Author: Comical Painfully Honest Water Buffalo

That will be how things will be in 15-20 years. Firms with only a couple partners, kind of like corporations with a few highly paid execs.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393191)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2018 11:40 PM
Author: massive trip stag film

No, that's definitely the case. There's a difference between averages and reality. The reality is rain making equity partners bring in clients and get a bigger percentage of the profits than non-rainmakers. So the associate drones "grow the pie," but most of it goes to a small cadre of super important partners. You can read about partners getting scooped up from places like Cravath with $40+ million 5 year guarantees from other firms (i.e., Kirkland). See also Faith Gay, who was paid over $100M at Quinn. https://abovethelaw.com/2018/02/john-quinn-is-not-happy-about-selendy-gay-and-he-sent-the-angry-reply-all-to-prove-it/. That would have been unfathomable 10 years ago. The spread between the highest paid and lowest paid partners is growing very quickly.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393200)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2018 11:45 PM
Author: confused casino becky

So the average partner is getting the fruit of a few associates' labor, but a few superstar partners are actually doing much better.

How many rainmakers are there in a typical Biglaw firm?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393226)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2018 11:49 PM
Author: massive trip stag film

You're talking about 5-10% of the partners. Basically the management committee plus a few machers who don't care about being on the management committee because they have a one-off deal or guarantee or just make so much money no one will dare fuck with them.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393248)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2018 11:53 PM
Author: cordovan half-breed

There are still firms like debevoise, Dpw and cravath that pay lockstep

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393269)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2018 11:22 PM
Author: aphrodisiac puce market

This is accurate.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393104)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2018 11:37 PM
Author: Comical Painfully Honest Water Buffalo

No decent firm is COLLECTING an average of 2100 hours for its first year associates.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393181)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2018 11:47 PM
Author: aphrodisiac puce market

Collection of 70% is considered very bad and low. 80-90% is more common. So if an associate bills 2300 hours, it's perfectly reasonable to collect on 2100 of those hours.

On some matters, like major M&A, IPOs, antitrust investigations or certain lit, you are certainly collecting close to 100%.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393242)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2018 11:50 PM
Author: massive trip stag film

TCR especially litigation covered by insurance. But big law firm averages are around 85%, depending on the economy.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393255)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2018 11:53 PM
Author: aphrodisiac puce market

On major matters that last for months or years, we invoice clients monthly and they pay no questions asked.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393268)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 12th, 2018 12:02 AM
Author: Comical Painfully Honest Water Buffalo

Are you also counting time written off before the bill is sent out?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393327)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 12th, 2018 12:06 AM
Author: aphrodisiac puce market

On major matters for big clients, we don't write off any time unless it's something egregious like the following:

Review documents in data room 19.8

Review comments to SPA 12.4

Prepare initial draft of big boy letter 8.1.

Ljl.

On smaller transactions we typically expect the client to ask for a discount so we just offer them our standard 10-15% and the client happily pays.

On aborted deals or bids that lose, we typically start with a 20% discount which gets negotiated to 25-30% and is obviously very bad for our bottom line. That's why we try to avoid representing buy-side with low chance of success and use our market intel to figure out who the best horses are and represent them. Helps having friends at the IBs who have all this data. In my experience this level of discount for my team only happens 2 or 3 times a year.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393368)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 15th, 2018 12:39 AM
Author: concupiscible wagecucks hell

avoid representing buy side? how is that even possible?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37410822)



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Date: December 16th, 2018 1:13 AM
Author: aphrodisiac puce market

There is a company that is going to go for sale soon. You hear about this through the grapevine from your IB/buyside bros. First, you try to represent the company. Representing sell-side in an auction is 180 b/c you have guaranteed deal closure and a company up for sale is less-likely to be stingy about legal fees since it's not really their money anymore.

Assuming you miss out on the sell-side representation, within a few weeks everyone knows who the major bidders are. You ask your IB friends for the identity of the bidders and chances of winning. You factor in things like how much cash they have, recent deal experience, track record, support of management to make a high bid, etc.

At a top-shop, you will often have multiple bidders asking you to represent you. You choose the one that you think has the highest chance of winning the bid.

/end



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37415124)



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Date: December 11th, 2018 10:57 PM
Author: massive trip stag film

1. Constant availability. No longer just psycho partners expect you to be checking phone ever 10 minutes at night. The norm is you are reachable from 8 AM until 11:30 PM. Later if you are on an active case/deal.

2. Outsourced/Managed Doc Review. No client or insurer will pay for first years to do the first cut on a doc review unless it's really small. Some clients even have their own "managed reviews" with teams in India doing the first pass review. Their red tape bullshit is insane and you need some in-house loser like Are Reptile to approve you doing even the most mundane task like re-coding responsiveness decisions.

3. Swell in amount of data. The amount of data we collect on big litigations is insane now and even with not doing the first pass of review in-house, there are still plenty of hours to bill second level reviewing it and reviewing it to understand what we are producing. Producing over a million pages used to be rare and it is now the norm in big cases.

4. Partnership Track Extended. Used to be 8 years, now 10 with many waiting longer. Not a single person at a V10 firm thinks they will make partner. Many more people can stay on indefinitely as senior associates, counsel, or fake non-equity partners.

5. Rate Pressure. Firms now have to start with rates at like $1,500 per hour for senior partners because clients expect them to be discounted 10-15%.

6. Work from home. Associates clear out of the office now by 7:00 PM and log back on at home. Hours have stayed the same, people (especially non-M&A) just aren't working them from the office. Seamless usage is way, way down.

7. Diversity Kool-Aid. As DBG said above, firms used to pay diversity lip service but now are true believers, especially in gender stuff and #metoo. Women have shit like "mentorship circles" and are considered first for partnership. Some shitlib clients set quotas for how many women, minorities, and gays have to work on their matters. Men are considered a threat/liability to existing partners and are treated like rape suspects. (Existing non-shitlib partners just use this as an excuse to prevent having to make partners who might be a threat to them.) They are desperate to have qualified, hard-working minority partner candidates but the reality is most of them leave for cushier jobs because F500s are even more desperate and offer better work/life.

8. Dumb Lazy Associates. Law schools are not filled with the best and brightest given LSAT decline that happened post-ITE. Many people who start now are low IQ, lazy, or simply not interested in working hard because they do not believe it is possible to be promoted within a law firm. It is nearly impossible to motivate them. Money is not enough - they want work from home, social justice, and other dumb shit like in-firm yoga classes.

9. Tale of Two Cities. The spread between equity partners and non-equity is becoming wider every year, and the potential of firms like K&E to lure profitable partners away keeps managing partners up at night. The genie is out of the bottle and there is not such thing as loyalty at all. Firms have learned nothing from Dewey and think they can just buy their way to mega firm status. Similarly, non-elite law firms will continue to struggle as elite firms will rake in money hand over fist.

10. Cut Support Staff. Firms are moving support staff to satellite offices and making more people share fewer resources. In 2008 secretaries had 3 attorneys. They now have 5-6. They are still worthless by and large.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393011)



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Date: December 11th, 2018 11:05 PM
Author: jet-lagged pozpig sanctuary

"4. Partnership Track Extended. Used to be 8 years, now 10 with many waiting longer. Not a single person at a V10 firm thinks they will make partner. Many more people can stay on indefinitely as senior associates, counsel, or fake non-equity partners."

"Many people who start now are low IQ, lazy, or simply not interested in working hard because they do not believe it is possible to be promoted within a law firm. It is nearly impossible to motivate them."

Why are they being criticized for rational behavior?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393043)



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Date: December 11th, 2018 11:08 PM
Author: cordovan half-breed



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393050)



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Date: December 11th, 2018 11:13 PM
Author: massive trip stag film

Who is criticizing them? It's acknowledged as a reality. It is almost impossible to get millennials to stick to deadlines and partners acknowledge it. I can't tell you how many times I've gotten an insane email the day after something was due saying sorry, my dog was sick, or my yogi said I need to take it easy today. We have to set fake deadlines to get them to do shit and the work product is mostly terrible.

What puzzles the partners is that they are paying these people hundreds of thousands of dollars and they are apathetic and not appreciative at all. Senior associates make 400k+ now. That is more than the equity partners who I work with now made when they were junior partners in the 80s.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393068)



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Date: December 11th, 2018 11:20 PM
Author: cordovan half-breed

Sup devry

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393096)



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Date: December 11th, 2018 11:24 PM
Author: jet-lagged pozpig sanctuary

If there’s no hope of advancement, they deserve half ass work. The hard work is in the hope of partnership.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393113)



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Date: December 11th, 2018 11:30 PM
Author: massive trip stag film

The argument could be made that paying them millions of dollars is sufficient.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393143)



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Date: December 11th, 2018 11:34 PM
Author: jet-lagged pozpig sanctuary

It’s not as if $230K in Manhattan is an insane amount of money.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393164)



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Date: December 11th, 2018 11:40 PM
Author: Comical Painfully Honest Water Buffalo

The average associate is pulling in 300k. Senior associates are pulling in close to 500k.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393197)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 11:01 AM
Author: plum trump supporter business firm

this just isn't true. nearly everyone clears out within 3 years, so the average is heavily weighted towards 1st and 2nd years.

there are few seniors nowadays, and at that point a surprising number are on of-counsel tracks, reduced hours mommy tracks, getting screwed out of bonuses (other than at the actual top firms), etc. firms don't let on to the high % of their people that aren't on the true blue biglaw scale.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37394895)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 3:29 PM
Author: jet-lagged pozpig sanctuary

Serfification of the profession.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37396800)



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Date: December 11th, 2018 11:39 PM
Author: razzle forum

The argument could be made that inflating law school tuition 400% made that inevitable

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393190)



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Date: December 11th, 2018 11:56 PM
Author: Comical Painfully Honest Water Buffalo

Not when the position, “associate,” is treated by its very nature as tam temporary role. If we want to redesign law firms ok, but the entire system is predicated in up or out, except that the “up” no longer exists.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393289)



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Date: December 11th, 2018 11:54 PM
Author: Comical Painfully Honest Water Buffalo

And the partners are making millions to do very little of value, so they can’t really complain.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393276)



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Date: December 11th, 2018 11:27 PM
Author: aphrodisiac puce market

Jesus Christ this hits home - do we work at the same firm? Ljl.

"4. Partnership Track Extended. Used to be 8 years, now 10 with many waiting longer. Not a single person at a V10 firm thinks they will make partner. Many more people can stay on indefinitely as senior associates, counsel, or fake non-equity partners."

The number of "permanent" of-counsels I've encountered is mind-boggling.

"6. Work from home. Associates clear out of the office now by 7:00 PM and log back on at home. Hours have stayed the same, people (especially non-M&A) just aren't working them from the office. Seamless usage is way, way down."

Very true. The worst though are the associates who say they'll be working from home but aren't reachable or are slow and clearly not working from home.

"8. Dumb Lazy Associates. Law schools are not filled with the best and brightest given LSAT decline that happened post-ITE. Many people who start now are low IQ, lazy, or simply not interested in working hard because they do not believe it is possible to be promoted within a law firm. It is nearly impossible to motivate them. Money is not enough - they want work from home, social justice, and other dumb shit like in-firm yoga classes."

Completely agree that partners have basically given up on associates and it's tough to fire people b/c we still need the bodies to bill.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393131)



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Date: December 11th, 2018 11:36 PM
Author: jet-lagged pozpig sanctuary

Why are you internalizing boomer partners exploiting associates?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393175)



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Date: December 11th, 2018 11:41 PM
Author: aphrodisiac puce market

I'm not sure what your point is.

The way I see it, current associates are getting paid much more than when I started, but doing less work and doing a generally crappier job. I'm not sure what current associates really have to cry about.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393205)



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Date: December 11th, 2018 11:45 PM
Author: sadistic theater stage boistinker

the debt you fucking bootlicker

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393227)



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Date: December 11th, 2018 11:49 PM
Author: aphrodisiac puce market

You're an idiot who can't do basic math. Read the OP. I said past 10 years.

Pay raises and bonuses have outpaced the increase in law school tuition over the past decade. It's not even comparable.

2008:

45k tuition, 160K starting base + 15K bonuses for midlevels

2018:

65k tution, 190 starting base + 100K bonuses

Do the maths.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393251)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 12:04 AM
Author: Comical Painfully Honest Water Buffalo

No first year is getting a 100k bonus.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393344)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 12:18 AM
Author: aphrodisiac puce market

I really didn't feel like doing a year-by-year analysis, but clearly in raw figures, for every class year, the amount made by associates in every class year today is far in excess of increases in tuition over the same time period.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393447)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 12:19 AM
Author: sadistic theater stage boistinker

2008 T14 Non-Resident Tuition = $39k; 2018 = $62k. That's almost a 60% increase. Federal income tax also up 4%.

2008 First year comp = $160k (say no bonus); 2018 = $190k + $5k bonus (prorated stub year). That's a 22% increase.

Not to mention rent increases in major cities, especially NYC.

And why are you comparing 2018 senior bonuses to first year comp? Apples to apples, brother.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393459)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 1:44 AM
Author: aphrodisiac puce market

Why are you using percentages of increases? That's completely irrelevant. I used upper-end bonuses just to get my point across, but let's do apples to apples and compare a 2008 4th year to a 2018 4th year to see who is better off:

2008 4th year:

210K base, 22.5K bonus = 232.5K all-in.

Law school tution: 40K (your estimate)

2018 4th year:

255K base, 50K bonus = 305K all-in (not counting special or spring or summer bonuses)

Law school tution: 62K (your estimate)

The difference of comp between 2008 and 2018 get lulzier the more senior you get.

So in conclusion, a 2018 4th-year associate is making 72.5K more a year than a 2008 4th-year associate, while having paid only (roughly) 22K more in tuition per year.

Increase in debt/tuition as a justification for crappier and unhappier associates is lulzy and you using percentages of increases is even lulzier b/c a 4th year today has roughly 50K more a year to play with (after offsetting law school tuition) than a decade ago. You scale this over say a period of 5 years and it's a very significant increase in financial well-being.

To put it in even better perspective, an attorney practicing from 2008-2018 will have earned well-over $500,000 more than an attorney practicing from 2000-2010. Now unless you are going to claim that law school tuituion has increased by half a million dollars since 2000, you should just let this one slide.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393761)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 2:19 AM
Author: sadistic theater stage boistinker

you use percentages so you can compare changes in cost (tuition) to changes in revenue (salary) on the same scale. a first year associate in 2018 paid 60% more than his 2008 counterpart for a 22% improvement in compensation. on day 1, this is a shitty deal.

taxes matter because you pay debt with after tax dollars, which means debt service eats up a larger percentage of the 2018 associate's disposable income than it did for the 2008 associate, which is the most straightforward measure of financial strain.

if you do not understand these concepts, i cannot help you.

to your point about the associate's situation improving over time, i agree. to calculate the point at which the 2018 and 2008 associate break even, you'd need to discount earnings for each for some period (say 10 years) and compare present value against costs. i am not going to do that this evening.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393849)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 2:21 AM
Author: aphrodisiac puce market

This is utterly idiotic.

BRO my laundry expenses increased by 1000% over the past decade and therefore my crap 10% pay increase from 10 million to 11 million is worthless! What a shitty deal!

A 2018 first year paid something like 60K more in law school tuition over 3 years compared to a 2008 first year, in exchange for 30K more in base plus more bonus just in the first year, and this scales as you continue on.

And LJL at taxes or rent having increased so much from 2008 to 2018 to completely wipe out the net 40-100K extra you have left over each year after accounting for tuition increase. What are you like 12?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393852)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 2:25 AM
Author: sadistic theater stage boistinker

the cost of a law degree is a necessary expense to getting the biglaw job. the value of biglaw revenue can be tied directly to the cost of the degree. not the case for your laundry expenses. you learn this in introductory college accounting courses. your responses are extraordinary.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393863)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 2:30 AM
Author: aphrodisiac puce market

This post is absolutely nonsensical.

If you want to get into accounting, let's talk accounting.

BigCorp sees a 60% increase in capital expenditures equal to $5 million because of extra investments in its factories. That same year, BigCorp sees a 10% increase in revenue equal to $100 million as a result of the capital expenditures made to upgrade their factories.

Are the shareholders of BigCorp happy or unhappy? From either a valuation, cashflow, balance sheet or income statement perspective, is BigCorp better off before or after the capital expenditure?

From an accounting perspective, top line (revenue/income/assets) and bottom line (net) numbers are always the most important metrics of measuring financial condition, which is why all valuation models are centered on some combination of cash flow, revenues and total assets to come up with enterprise value. Expenditures/investments are a secondary concern (for purposes of identifying how much was spent where to get to the top line number) and are NEVER compared apples-to-apples with top/bottom line numbers like you're attempting to do.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393875)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 10:47 AM
Author: sadistic theater stage boistinker

The incremental return on the new money investment is lower than the first dollars put into the company. You’ve decreased gross margin. Are investors still happy? Sure, because your incremental investment has 95% gross margin, which beats the hell out of anything else in the market. But the new dollars are doing worse than the old dollars.

Your example is not a useful comparison for a law degree, where the margins are much lower. Look at the ROI (gain-cost)/cost. On day 1 as a 2018 associate, your gain relative to 2008 has increased 22% while your cost has increased 60%, making ROI obviously lower for the 2018 associate. To put it in absolute numbers, your day 1 after tax income is about $130k on $186k debt (compared with $115k after tax income against $117k debt of 2008 associate). The 2018 associate has to stay in the game longer to recoup the cost of his investment.

The comparison may be different for associates that stick it out 10 years. I haven’t done the math on that. But first/second/third years who paid sticker with their own money (with student loans) are absolutely getting it up the ass worse than their counterparts from 10 years ago.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37394839)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 11:28 AM
Author: aphrodisiac puce market

I agree I used an extreme example, but that was in response to your nonsensical point regarding comparing percentage changes of expenses to income. ROI, which you are now using, is a much fairer metric.

And yes, from an ROI perspective the yield of a first year associate is poorer now than 2008. However, if we are looking at the whole picture on a holistic basis, we can easily conclcude that within 2 or 3 years the ROI of a 2018 associate surpasses that of a 2008 associate. Just in the 4th year alone a 2018 associate makes more than a 2008 4th year to nearly offset the extra tuition costs for 3 years of law school. This is not even considering the significant job security aspect which was absent in 2008.

You severely discount the impact of bonuses as well. Bonus have risen 2-3x of 2008 levels.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37395101)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 12:36 PM
Author: sadistic theater stage boistinker

what was the full salary and bonus scale in 2008 for all class levels? i will do the CPI-adjusted math for a 5-year and 10-year period to finally put this to bed.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37395610)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 1:09 PM
Author: Cream abusive university cuckoldry

2008 was a weird year where skadden offered better bonuses but most followed cravath’s scale:

https://abovethelaw.com/2008/12/associate-bonus-watch-davis-polk-wardwell-joins-cravathsimpson-in-race-to-the-bottom/

Also, as I pointed out below, any calculation needs to account for COL expenses during law school since nobody is just paying tuition. My total cost in 2007 was $55k v $96k estimated budget on the school website for 2018.

My suspicion is that one needs to stay longer in biglaw to break even but once you go past the break even point, your ROI increases quite a bit due to bigger senior associate bonuses. So biglaw may be a better deal if you have plans to stay past year 4 or 5, but most people do not have such plans and would rather pay off their debt quickly by year 3 or so and leave and the astronomical rise of law school attendance costs traps people for longer than they desire.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37395822)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 2:32 AM
Author: Pearl razzle-dazzle foreskin people who are hurt

bro, youre gonna have to hold this L.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393881)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 2:23 AM
Author: jet-lagged pozpig sanctuary

Housing prices in these places way up too.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393859)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 2:30 AM
Author: sadistic theater stage boistinker



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393876)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 2:30 AM
Author: aphrodisiac puce market

Nowhere close to wipe out the incredible salary and bonus gains from 2008-2018, not to mention the incomparable job security of associates entering big law last few years.

A 2018 associate of any level is way better off right now than a 2008 associate of any level.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393878)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 6:25 AM
Author: snowy reading party milk

$160,000 10 years ago is worth $186,826 now just using basic CPI. Consider that the two biggest costs new associates face are education and housing, which have hyperinflated in the last 10 years, and it's pretty close to a wash salary-wise.

Can't argue that job security is better now than peak ITE though.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37394094)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 7:52 AM
Author: aphrodisiac puce market

CPI includes rental expenses ljl (maybe you got confused bc housing cost ie when you buy is excluded). Thanks for proving my point - including all relevant economic factors, 2018 associate makes more than 2008 associate despite rent increases. And this is just counting base salary. If you factor in the massive jump in bonuses its not even close.

Did you honestly think the price of Big Macs and Chipotle went up so much in 10 years to justify a $26K difference in CPI-adjusted annual income? Jesus.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37394227)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 11:04 AM
Author: sadistic theater stage boistinker

How does this prove your point? It shows that the bump to 190 only gave a $4k bump in real purchasing power.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37394916)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 11:22 AM
Author: aphrodisiac puce market

The post I was responding to tried to double dip rent by doing a CGI adjustment and then subsequently factoring in rent increases.

If you want to get back to my original point:

1) 2018 associates make more than 2008 associates

2) 2018 associates have far more job security

3) 2018 associates pay will increase at a far higher rate due to higher pay scale and massive bonus increases, which will quickly more than offset the initial extra investment in tuition costs

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37395041)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 11:30 AM
Author: sadistic theater stage boistinker

Yes I understand that it dispenses with the rent issue. But the CPI adjustment wrecks your overall point that today’s associates make so much more money. The salary and bonus increases are nowhere near as large as you make them seem when adjusted for inflation.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37395117)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 1:23 PM
Author: Cream abusive university cuckoldry

It’s a bit disingenuous to take a snapshot as a 2018 associate when salaries were stuck at $160k from 2006-2016 and only moved to $190k this year. I haven’t paid attention to biglaw bonuses in forever but I suspect they didn’t really rise meaningfully until the last few years when PPP went so high that there were really no excuses not to pay more to the associates.

So really, if you’re an associate that graduated anywhere btwn 2008-2016, your tuition and COL costs were rising at a much more rapid rate than biglaw comp was rising. If you’re a new grad in 2017-2018, you’re getting a great deal in the same way 2005-2007 grads got a great deal when it went rapidly from $125k to $145k to $160k and special bonuses were all over, but youre cherry picking by choosing 2018 as the baseline.

Biglaw salaries are unlikely to rise in the next 5 years (mostly likely a decade) and the bonuses will not go up rapidly either and will mostly likely go down as the economy slows down. Meanwhile tuition and COL costs will continue to march up at the usual rate.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37395927)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 4:19 PM
Author: sadistic theater stage boistinker

thanks, nutella. i think this is probably right. i put myself on a 5 yr repayment plan for about $220k student debt when I started biglaw on the old 160 scale. debt service on that salary with NYC CoL, coupled with some negative personal developments, really broke my spirit, yet the vibe i was getting from the partners i was working for was similar to what Devry Masters Candidate is saying.

if the reality is that 2008 associates really had it worse across the board, then i'm happy to suck it up and soldier on. but if the reverse is true, then i think it's on DMC and other law firm leaders to consider giving certain of their associates the benefit of the doubt, as they might be struggling massively on the front end. a little compassion and a "hang in there" goes a long way.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37397198)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 9:39 PM
Author: aphrodisiac puce market

You can change the goal posts and whine about 2018 all you want. I am arguing 2008 vs 2018.

Also, biglaw bonuses statgrd their massive spike in 2013. So weve had 5 years of insane bonuses:

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37398872)



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Date: December 13th, 2018 12:46 PM
Author: Cream abusive university cuckoldry

Yes you want to argue 2008 v 2018 because those numbers suit you. You don’t want to do 2007 v 2017 because 2007 was an insane year for bonuses and 2017 was pre-$190k scale. But you cant make a sweeping claim that associates are way better off now than a decade ago in terms of money and only look at one year. And of course, it’s hard to predict what happens over the next few years. After all it was only a few years after $160k that everything crashed.

The bonuses being huge since 2013 is just wrong. Here’s 2018:

https://abovethelaw.com/2018/11/breaking-cravath-announces-annual-bonuses/

Compare to 2008:

https://abovethelaw.com/2008/11/associate-bonus-watch-cravath-offers-less-than-skadden/

The main difference is that as you advance into midlevel and senior ranks, you are getting much better bonuses. But most associates don’t go past year 4 or 5, if that.

But of course, you’re looking at an average biglawyer who now pays at least $120k more to attend law school over 3 years. The bonuses and salary increases from 2008 to 2018 aren’t so dramatic that you’re truly getting more money until you hit the point where everyone starts to leave anyway because now they’ve finally paid off their debts. And you’re only looking at a minority of firms with no hours req for bonus. Of course, outside v10, most firms like Gibson and Latham have minimum hour requirements where not everyone gets a bonus. So at best, it’s still a wash for the vast majority of biglawyers. I won’t even factor in COL after law school into it.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37401772)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 13th, 2018 1:34 PM
Author: snowy reading party milk



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37402140)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 14th, 2018 4:22 AM
Author: aphrodisiac puce market

No, I am doing 2008 vs. 2018 b/c my OP was specifically "last decade." Also, I thought I was being generous starting at 2008 b/c that's when they first raised to 160K. But if you want, we can do 2007 (145K) vs. 2017 (180K), not that it will make any difference.

The BS CPI adjustment argument (which I address in my post further down) and all these tired and flawed arguments are bordering on moronic. For example your logic about everyone leaving is just ludicrous. Back in 2008 a lot of people got fired and had nowhere to go b/c of ITE, but hey, you don't even consider that in your calculus. Whereas today, attrition still occurs but a lot of that attrition is to other biglaw firms or high-paying inhouse jobs. Also whether someone chooses to quit or not has nothing to do with my argument that associates today are financially far better off than their counterparts a decade ago. Quitting or lateralling is a voluntary choice, and the options for someone quitting in 2018 far surpasses options in 2008. In other words, whether you choose to stay in biglaw or leave in 2018, you are far better off financially than your equivalent in 2008.

But it's stupid to get into hypos about who quits when or whether you meet hours requirements or not or whether you're working at a V5 or a V100. I'm looking solely at objective quantifiable measures in terms of raw numbers for a standard biglaw associate at a market firm.

Copying and pasting from the post below:

A 1st year associate (full year) who started in 2008 and spent 5 years in biglaw will have made a total of $1,051,500.

Compared to a 1st year associate who started in 2014 and remains in biglaw through the end of 2018, will have made a total of $1,290,000.

That's a $238,500 difference achieved in just 5 years. The difference balloons at an expontial rate from years 6 through 10 to well over half a million dollars, but I assumed the average biglawyer isn't sticking around years 6 through 10 so I won't bring those numbers into this particular analysis. This is a very dramatic difference and cannot be mitigated by any marginal changes in cost of living or inflation over the same period.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37406154)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 14th, 2018 4:54 AM
Author: aphrodisiac puce market

Also LJL at a biglawyer paying $120K more to attend law school now. Are you just pulling numbers out of your ass now?

Based on data from law school transparency, a student entering law school in 2005 paid a total of $91,887 at a private law school.

Someone who started law school in 2015 paid a total of $135,248, or $43,361 more in non-inflated dollars.

The 2005 numbers are not adjusted for inflation, CPI or whatever other shit which would only make the difference even less.

Now I won't get into rent/COL b/c it differs so much between whether you went to Michigan or NYU or Yale, but I will say it is lulzy that:

-you think law students pay $76,639 more in rent/food in 2018 than they did in 2008, not to mention that law school rents are for 8 months (sorry, rents in NYC, Michigan, Duke, Cornell, etc., and the price of Chipotle didn't even increase to the tune of 76K)

-you're not factoring in the substantially higher summer associate pay (based on my rough calculations a SA makes $15K more now than they did back then)

-you're not bothering to inflation/CPI adjust 2005-2008 tuition/COL dollars but you insist on adjusting income ljl

The simple fact is law students are probably paying around $50-70K more for law school now (in non-inflation adjusted dollars), but in return:

-You will have made 13K more after year 2

-You will have made 72.5K more after year 3, completely offsetting any extra expenditures in law school

-You will have made 142.5K more after year 4, which is getting luzly

-You will have made 238.5K more after year 5!

-If I continue, the lulziness increases

You start from the lazy premise that "oh they will quit after 2 years before they break even" which is lulzy. It is far easier now to stay to year 5, 6 7 8 or 9 than it was a decade ago. It's a matter of choice, which is a major element to assessing one's financial condition. You have the option to stay and make a lot more money than you could have a decade ago. Even if you stay only 3 or 4 years, you are still better off. Thanks to the job market, even if you leave during years 3 or 4, you have much better and higher paying options. These should all be major considerations in assessing financial prospects of a 2018 vs. 2008 associate, but you fail to do so and flail about whining about irrelevant shit.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37406178)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 14th, 2018 10:13 AM
Author: Cream abusive university cuckoldry

Biglaw salaries were raised to $160k in 2006 and benefited class of 2006 and beyond. I remember because I was paid on the $160k scale as a summer and when I started in 2007. Also 2007 there were special bonuses and first years were paid $35k.

I don’t know what this law school transparency thing is but you know it’s meaningless to look at some aggregated data of law schools. $91k total in 2005 year is absurd for 3 years full freight and completely inaccurate. It must include people who get fin aid and people with in state tuition at state schools. So is the $135k number.

I initially only looked at sls, which stated $96k/year now versus ~$55k back in 2007. A quick google search shows $85k for yls, $96k for NYU and $96k for HLS. $97k for cls and uchicago. Gee, do you see a pattern emerging? Safe to say majority of those in v10 where you’re going to get a guaranteed bonus with no hours req come from those schools. I’m sure you can go check the cost of attending your school now and it’ll be similar to $95k/year number.

You’re obviously set on stating that young associates have it better financially now than in the past but you just won’t use more realistic numbers about the cost of attending law school. When you’re graduating with close to $300k in debt, it’s really not much better of a deal.

Edit: you yourself previously estimated in a thread that law school costs $90k/year. Very convenient that you’re willing to estimate there on law school rent but refuse to do that in this thread.

http://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4137073&mc=130&forum_id=2

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37406732)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 15th, 2018 12:00 AM
Author: aphrodisiac puce market

I starting off using thr highest NYC numbers for tuition as a sign of good faith and to round in your favor, but since I got hit by CPI and other BS arguments I returned to using market average data from law school transparency which is probably the biggest source of tuition data available online. Not sure what hole youve been hiding under and no it doesnt include financial aid.

Just look at the marth. A 4th year now will have made hundreds of K more today than a 4th year in 2008. Sorry, tuition has on a average only gone up by a tiny fraction of such gains.

I have provided accurate data of salary and bonus and if you bothered to do the same amount you would be able to determine break even points for an average law school student. Instead youre just arguing using concepts you believe to be true with no data. Tuition at my T3 has gone up by $20k/year (over 3 years) since I attend over a decade ago and checking rent prices is about $500/month more where I used to live. Keep in mind it is luxury real estate that are causing spikes in average COL figures - your shit walkup is not going up in rent by $1,000/month ljl.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37410690)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 12th, 2018 10:14 PM
Author: aphrodisiac puce market

And if you want to CPI adjust 2008 salaries you need to also adjust the dollars spent on 2007 tuition as well. What kind of disingenuous flaky math are you trying to pull here?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37399033)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 12th, 2018 1:00 PM
Author: Cream abusive university cuckoldry

Any meaningful comparison needs to factor in not just tuition but also dorm/rent costs and other expenses. For example, my total expenses were roughly $55k in 2007 (tuition was ~$37k of it). For 2018, total expenses is estimated to be $96k with tuition at $60k and dorm costs of $26k per school website budget.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37395764)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 12th, 2018 9:42 PM
Author: aphrodisiac puce market

Sorry but no, I am not gojng to try to factor in the vast disparity in COL between NYU and Yale.

And I kept silent on CPI but thats a bullshit metric for high earning professionals. It assumes you will automatically spend a percentage of your pay based on the average percentage of rent increases, which is bullshit. Assuming a 1st year paid a solid $3,000/month in rent in 2008, it is absurd to use the CPI numbers and assume that a 1st year in 2018 is paying $5,0000/month. In fact looking at the building I used to live in 2008, I see that rent has increased from $3,500/month in 2008 to $3,900/month for the same unit.

CPI is somewhat useful as a generic economic measure but is no way reflective of real life.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37398887)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 13th, 2018 10:57 AM
Author: sadistic theater stage boistinker

serious question: did your parents pay for law school?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37401273)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 13th, 2018 12:11 PM
Author: Cream abusive university cuckoldry

You’re not going to factor in a significant cost of attending law school (housing) because it doesn’t happen to support your claims? There is not significant COL differences btwn schools when it comes to dorm costs (I’m not looking at renting off campus in NYC v new haven). Overall cost of attendance does not vary significantly by school based on location when you live in dorms. $100k in 2018 v $60k in 2008 is likely median for any t14 school.

And no, I’m not even going into rise of rental costs post law school since that’s highly individualized. I had a rent stablized apt in the east village that was $1850/mo when I started biglaw in 2007. Such an apt doesn’t exist now.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37401622)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 16th, 2018 1:09 AM
Author: aphrodisiac puce market

I do actually factor COL in my other posts, I said I wasn't going to try to distinguish between Michigan/NYU/Stanford/Duke given the massive disparity in COL.

While you flail around with BS arguments about some non-existent walk-up in NYC that supposedly went up $3K/month in rent in the past 10 years (it didn't), nobody is addressing the MFing elephant in the room.

$238,500 in additional income after 5 years in 2018, than in 2008 + much higher job security + much better exit options.

Law School Transparency (the definitive source on tuition data) shows that the average tuition hike at a private school is nowhere near enough to offset the substantially higher earnings today.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37415120)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 12th, 2018 12:09 AM
Author: Shivering National Security Agency

He does litigation and you do M&A: Is it the case for both that firms need bodies to bill? I've been seeing attrition in my firm's litigation group, which corresponds to the observation above:

"7. Decline of litigation at big law firms in favor of M&A work, which is more profitable and does not create as many conflicts"

I wonder when I can stop living in fear of getting fired.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393381)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 12th, 2018 9:10 AM
Author: stirring pale ratface

haha never

Even after you make partner they are no longer afraid to “de-equitize” people of the numbers are right

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37394399)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2018 11:28 PM
Author: sadistic theater stage boistinker

- Swell in amount of data

- Constant availability

- Cut support staff

I'm a midlevel and these are my three biggest issues. The amount of data collection and analysis I do for this job is unbelievable. I feel like the only reason I survive is because I became an Excel ninja before law school.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393136)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2018 11:42 PM
Author: razzle forum

all of this is credited

the data on even the small cases now is fucking retarded. i'm on a case where almost three million pages have been produced with more to come and both sides still have four person teams and we're halfway through fact discovery and all of us are on multiple cases. who knows what's out there lol

there are just no attorneys at the 2010-2011-2012 levels and it's killing our cases. junior partners are having to do midlevel tasks

my firm fired multiple secretaries and paralegals within the last month

i will say that multiple women that should have been slam dunks for partner didn't make it, partly because they thought they were slam dunks and coasted for the last six months and it pissed off management

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393209)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2018 11:47 PM
Author: massive trip stag film

Yes I predicted this when firms laid people off in 2008/9. People who started around that time had no one to delegate to for ~3 years because of deferments and just had to do everything themselves. I figured firms would be starved for people at that seniority level down the line and it's true, though this culture of having to do everything yourself and the slow return from ITE staved it off longer than expected. Retention of mid-level corporate associates is very tough right now.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393241)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 12th, 2018 6:31 AM
Author: snowy reading party milk

Most service partners (includes almost all junior partners) would be underutilized if they didn't have a healthy diet of senior associate or even midlevel work to keep them busy. Just one more thing biglaw partners like to disingenuously complain about.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37394100)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2018 11:51 PM
Author: Comical Painfully Honest Water Buffalo

Correct on all points. Good post.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393257)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 12th, 2018 12:00 AM
Author: Rebellious Maize Whorehouse

Very good list.

In addition to all of this I would add that BIGLAW has definitely shrunk. There used to be 30 or more firms that kept up with BIGLAW associate compensation even though they were not peer firms. Now? LOL.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393317)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 12th, 2018 11:25 AM
Author: appetizing sticky public bath trust fund

180 content creation, including this:

>>Their red tape bullshit is insane and you need some in-house loser like Are Reptile to approve you doing even the most mundane task like re-coding responsiveness decisions

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37395065)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2018 11:25 PM
Author: electric stead

sup NYUUG. another 180 massive NYUUG ORIGINAL CONTENT thread by ME.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393118)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2018 11:30 PM
Author: confused casino becky

What happens when the Boomer equity partners retire? The work will just get done by the growing in house legal departments? How much do the senior lawyers there make?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393142)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2018 11:33 PM
Author: massive trip stag film

They are trying to duck mandatory retirement ages in partnership agreements now. They are supposed to transition business to existing partners, but few are doing a good job letting go of the reigns. They probably will continue to shadow-advise from the sidelines and shit talk the new partners out of their own stubbornness and ego. They would work until they died if they could.

There are some matters in-house legal departments can't handle, like bet-the-company litigation, which is supposed to be big firms' specialties. Absent the word of a long-term relationship partner, they will either (i) hire the big name in the field to handle the case (see Ted Wells with NFL, Mary Jo White with #MeToo, Ted Olson, David Boies, etc.) (see rich get richer); or (ii) do some dumb, uninformed beauty contest.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393155)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2018 11:35 PM
Author: confused casino becky

Well then when they die, what happens? This stuff just gets done in house? Boomers have a habit of getting a lucrative job and then, rather than passing it on, just milking it until it gets eliminated.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393169)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2018 11:47 PM
Author: razzle forum

most of the partners i work with freely admit that they want to work until they die because 1) they don't know how to do anything else 2) most are on their 3rd or 4th wife and are paying the first few, 3) as such, most are in their 60s and still have kids in high school or college and legit can't stop working yet

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393237)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 12th, 2018 12:04 AM
Author: metal double fault

jfc, killself should be #1 on their list of options

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393351)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 12th, 2018 12:09 AM
Author: Comical Painfully Honest Water Buffalo

Tcr. They also are like prisoners with no idea of what they would do on the outside.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393382)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 12th, 2018 12:13 AM
Author: razzle forum

and i mean think about how we will end up compared to these guys

some of these guys came in in the mad men era and had typewriters and dictaphones and pinched their secretaries on the ass and shit

we will have billed 40 years of carpe diem entries at 0.1 per

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393405)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 12th, 2018 7:48 PM
Author: Amethyst sex offender

lol this is completely credited for my firm.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37398272)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2018 11:42 PM
Author: jet-lagged pozpig sanctuary



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393211)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 12th, 2018 12:01 AM
Author: aphrodisiac puce market

I haven't noticed this as much, but I do know major corps are hiring inhouse lawyers like crazy.

It's all part of a supply-demand cycle and I think we will reach a nice equilibrium soon.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393322)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 12th, 2018 12:11 AM
Author: Comical Painfully Honest Water Buffalo

In-house groups keep growing, but I don’t know where they are hiring from. In-house salaries are 50% if biglaw. It seems that many hires are actually biglaw partner burnouts.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393390)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 12th, 2018 6:37 AM
Author: snowy reading party milk

The people who would have been <><NO BREAKFASTED><> as 7th or 8th years now make fake partner or counsel only to get <><NO REAL BREAKFAST><>, so they end up leaving for in house.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37394105)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 12th, 2018 2:32 AM
Author: bronze medicated heaven

In part, an attempt to bring in low level work. Some departments have contract negotiators negotiating contracrs that wouls prbly had gone to outside counsel a few yrs ago. The positions are the equivalent of staff atty positions -- no room for promotion and reasonable hours.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393882)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 12th, 2018 2:41 AM
Author: cerise kitchen ape

No one has mentioned staff attorneys. With decline of associate IQ and work ethic they are tending to play a larger role in firm life. Many are worthless but on average 2 out of every 8 are of a different era or just in financial straits, and smart, where they can be converted into associate duty of 2000 hours + near round the clock availability for 105k.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393887)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 12th, 2018 2:45 AM
Author: arousing primrose hall juggernaut

the staff attorneys that have been around for years on end are often way better than the juniors

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393900)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 12th, 2018 2:55 AM
Author: jet-lagged pozpig sanctuary

The work ethic thing is great news. Millennials have realized the lies of GC.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37393913)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 12th, 2018 6:39 AM
Author: cerise kitchen ape

Yes and no. If you are just trying to do a good job for a few years and take home a good paycheck it makes for a miserable environment. Sometimes you go to group lunches with these people and a somebody makes a joke or asks them a pointed question, and they are completely lost. So it’s not just a front they are putting on to avoid work.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37394110)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 12th, 2018 10:34 AM
Author: cordovan half-breed

Lmao at group lunches. Those things are torture

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37394789)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 12th, 2018 9:11 AM
Author: stirring pale ratface

Cracking up at the “well back in my day we used to work harder and we were much smarter than these damn kids!” responses. Y’all have really bought in to the boomer mindset.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37394405)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 12th, 2018 9:52 AM
Author: massive trip stag film

Recent college grads hustle in plenty of other businesses, like start ups/tech companies and finance. But law hardos are basically disappearing. I think they have realized that you will never have decent money with work/life balance in hourly law and are pursuing other options. They do not see biglaw partner as a desirable job. This generation wants to be able to work from home when it's raining out and take 2 week vacations to "recharge" and "find themselves." I work at a renowned sweatshop with $3M+ PPP but you should have seen us Thanksgiving week. All the juniors were in bumblefuck Ohio or wherever they are from "working remotely" and didn't even tell anyone before they left. It takes them 30 minutes to respond to emails and they are not reachable at their work numbers as they are supposed to be. Most of them are still in the college mindset. And I don't blame them - it is demoralizing to toil for 10 years with no career certainty to try to be one of the 2-3% of your summer class who will make partner.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37394588)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 12th, 2018 9:54 AM
Author: stirring pale ratface

Ok but 7 years ago partners were saying this about you, and you were on do saying how unfair it was and why don’t the partners appreciate how hard you work

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37394600)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 12th, 2018 10:07 AM
Author: massive trip stag film

Sorry but you don't know me and they weren't saying this about me. In most large, prestigious biglaw firms (excluding WLRK), there is a small group of hard workers in every class that actually likes what they are doing and wants to make partner. I think most people would be surprised how much dead weight there is beyond that core group, and it has only increased in the past 10 years given that more and more incoming associates do not even have the dream of staying to make partner (and are up front about that from day 1) and that firms don't want to push them out for optics/because they can be profitable as mid-levels or seniors even at 1800 collected hours.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37394653)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 12th, 2018 10:38 AM
Author: stirring pale ratface

lol

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37394807)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 12th, 2018 11:07 AM
Author: amber idea he suggested home

!!!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37394935)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 12th, 2018 10:58 AM
Author: cerise kitchen ape

That isn’t true. Classes were smarter and more interested in the work.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37394882)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 12th, 2018 10:10 AM
Author: racy ticket booth mother

Sounds like the juniors are making good and sensible decisions that you should encourage. You saying they want to "work from home when its raining" makes me think you've been Boomer brainwashed

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37394666)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 12th, 2018 10:18 AM
Author: massive trip stag film

It is a dumb decision if you are taking a job that is notorious for making you work long hours in Midtown or Fidi to live in Bushwick or Fort Greene with your stay-at-home yogi-tattoo-designer-life-coach-DJ girlfriend and a dog. I don't know why bootlicking corporatists suddenly decided they should be living and working like freelance graphic designers. These millennials are making short-term decisions. We will see where they end up when they wash out.

Notice that comparatively few investment bankers, hedge fund bros, or consultants try to live the hipster lifestyle in Brooklyn. It's mainly just dumb social justice law shrews/soy boys.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37394697)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 12th, 2018 10:32 AM
Author: cordovan half-breed

What’s wrong with working from home

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37394777)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 12th, 2018 10:42 AM
Author: massive trip stag film

There is nothing wrong with it as long as your job is stay at home mother. But LJL at any serious person working at home. Can't wait until we have our first work-from-home Senator or Supreme Court Justice.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37394818)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 12th, 2018 10:43 AM
Author: racy ticket booth mother

jfc you poor slave keeping up this tough guy routine for your masters. protip: paperwork monkeys aren't senators

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37394824)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 10:43 AM
Author: cordovan half-breed

These aren’t Supreme Court justices though. Biglawyers stare at a computer screen and talk on the phone all day. Why can’t that be done mostly from home, except for client meetings? (Or court, for litigation)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37394825)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 10:55 AM
Author: Magical toilet seat

Lmao at this gen x wagecuck bootlicker

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37394874)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 11:15 AM
Author: Silver Violent Newt

i'm WFH right now because i was on a call with retards at a bank in NZ last night until 11 pm, then turned the docs about 3:30 am. lol at some boomer partner ever going to that kind of trouble on a routine matter

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37394987)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 11:22 AM
Author: stirring pale ratface

Supreme Court justices just take off for 10 weeks a year and go teach in Italy or some such shit

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37395040)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 11:38 AM
Author: plum trump supporter business firm

cr and senators are in their chill flyover hometown "meeting with constituents" (golfing and drinking w/ donors) most of the time when they're "out of session"

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37395183)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 10:48 AM
Author: plum trump supporter business firm

Not doubting that there are many morons and adult children not earning their $200k, but the fact that you expect them to give you advance notice that they'll be in Ohio and reachable on their cell phones with slight delays for a couple of days around Thanksgiving indicates that you're basically a boomerpartner. they all hate you and WANT to do a mediocre job so that you'll stop using them.

also, billing 2,400 hours and putting in facetime from 10am to 9:30pm every day won't save them "washing out." the post-recession biz model is to squeeze as much out of them as possible for 2 to 5 years, then push them out before there's any chance of them taking a tiny slice of the pie by making partner. so why should they bother bootlicking so much? it only makes sense to phone it in and hope the "talk" doesn't come until your loans are paid off.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37394847)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 11:25 AM
Author: Silver Violent Newt

first paragraph is a matter of opinion, but when i got yelled at as a third year for not being in the office at 7:30 pm on a friday waiting for a partner's markup (which may have been forthcoming at any time in an interval of several weeks) i got the message re expectations, even if they're demented

however, highly CR re facetime/billing. it's infuriating that more senior friends have seen reviews go from 1/2 to 3/4 when they hit 6th or 7th year. i also got the message re my own expectations from shit like that

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37395067)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 11:42 AM
Author: plum trump supporter business firm

the permanent frat pledge hazing, "i got yelled at for going home on a Friday night once in 2012, by a guy who is now retired in Napa that i'll never see again, so i'm going to pay it forward by torturing the new kids", is the exact boomerific behavior i'm talking about.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37395226)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 11:51 AM
Author: Silver Violent Newt

Yeah agreed, I don't think it gets good work out of my jrs so I don't do it

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37395288)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 11:36 AM
Author: aphrodisiac puce market

Jfc youre like my twin. Mind if I ask firm rank/year?

I started V5 and just made non equity at a firm around V30.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37395167)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 12:23 PM
Author: alcoholic marketing idea faggot firefighter

I too am at a $3m+ PPP firm, and you can be damned sure that I take off a good week for the holidays and don’t bother telling anyone. And I’m not in. a hurry to answer emails from partners. Why? Because I do most of my work for clients directly, and I don’t need to be in the office for that. I’m never going to be made a partner at my firm, so why do I give a fuck about face time or any of that. Just get the client contacts to take to another firm or to go in house.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37395531)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 10:14 AM
Author: massive trip stag film

Another dramatic change is the billable rates. In 2008, there were only a few partners who had crossed the $1,000/hour barrier. Inflation adjusted, that is $1,165.80. The top partners are now commanding $1,600 per hour, which is over a 30% hike. They have to do that in order for middling partners to charge $1,200 and counsel/senior associates to charge $1,000. The result of this is that first years are now over $550 an hour. At these rates, a lot of stuff has to be delegated and leverage should be increasing, but it is not happening fast enough.

Here is an interesting article on the issue: https://www.law.com/2018/11/15/big-law-should-raise-partner-billing-rates-10-percent-now/

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37394684)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 1:09 PM
Author: jet-lagged pozpig sanctuary

I'm hearing contradicting things. On one hand, 97% of law is a commodity that can be done by staff attorneys for $150/hour. On the other hand, elite partners now command more than ever $1,600/hr or whatever. Why?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37395821)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 2:26 PM
Author: alcoholic marketing idea faggot firefighter

???

What don’t you get? Clients are using top biglaw firms for less work, so biglaw needs to charge more for the work they do get in order to raise PPP? Want to start sending us 50% less work? Ok, then we’ll just charge 2X for the remaining work.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37396287)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 2:37 PM
Author: plum trump supporter business firm

the clients aren't paying for the paperwork to be filled out, they're paying for a fancy brand name to put its logo on the letterhead for upper middle management to CYA when something goes wrong by saying "well we hired the best guys around, this was their responsibility"

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37396387)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 2:56 PM
Author: alcoholic marketing idea faggot firefighter

Lol yup. I’ve had clients hire a cheap firm to actually draft something and then ask us to put our names on it and file it.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37396528)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 3:25 PM
Author: jet-lagged pozpig sanctuary

A brand licensing service just like POTUS.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37396768)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 10:21 PM
Author: Fragrant peach principal's office

The Trump Second Addendum to the Master Stock Purchase Agreement

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37399063)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 10:25 AM
Author: fantasy-prone goal in life

Every day I thank jeebus I escaped biglaw

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37394733)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 10:27 AM
Author: massive trip stag film

Another difference: firm security. Clients now insist on all sorts of dumb access rights for their documents that fuck things up when you try to send them to someone who's not "authorized" to work on the matter. Doc review platforms have two factor authentication sometimes which is annoying as fuck. In general, security has just become a much bigger deal and policies and procedures about it have become annoyingly formalized.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37394754)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 11:17 AM
Author: Silver Violent Newt

cr

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37395004)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 11:33 AM
Author: Adventurous startled psychic

It has also been argued that associates really want to be rewarded this way, they like the certainty of knowing that if they put in exactly 2103 hours they will achieve the 2000 bonus and the 2100 extra bonus. This argument proves my point. While there is so much associates hate about our billable hour culture, of course they do like certainty. Everyone likes certainty. And knowing that I've got a lock on an extra $15,000 so long as I spend New Year's Eve in front of a CRT reviewing documents for privilege-guaranteeing compensation that will pay for far more than my midnight champagne makes me feel warm and fuzzy all over. But the certainty that arises from no more than the writing down of a pre-stipulated number of hours is not a desired result. Rather an associate should know that his or her lawyers' hours will be evaluated for quantity for sure, but also for quality, for innovation, for benefit to the client, and that the associate's non-billable hours will be evaluated too, and then -- no certainty here -- the associate may get a bonus if this overall review yields the conclusion that the associate is entitled to a bonus. Is it subjective? To be sure. But we are lawyers, producing legal work, running law firms, preserving a threatened profession, and there is no way a lawyer's contribution to those goals should be evaluated in other than a qualitative, albeit subjective, way. Leave it to the production line employees installing windshields and rearview mirrors to get compensated by purely objective criteria.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37395143)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 12:55 PM
Author: alcoholic marketing idea faggot firefighter

This is boomer code for “let’s pay associates less”

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37395727)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 11:21 AM
Author: snowy reading party milk

ok, this one is very true and is one of the most 120 developments of the last 5 years or so

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37395036)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 11:30 AM
Author: Adventurous startled psychic

Salaries

Effective July 1, 2006, our starting salary will be $135,000 for all full-time associates. Base salaries for associates in years two through six will increase by $10,000 and in years seven and eight by $15,000 each year.

Elimination of Billable Hour Bonuses

At the same time, we are eliminating any bonus system based solely on billable hours. We recognize that such a system is not only inconsistent with our commitment to our clients, but also both an unfair way of compensating associates and inconsistent with our desire to encourage some of the non-billable activities our firm and our profession must value.

This does not mean we do not expect hard work from our associates. Caldwell & Moore is a business in a competitive marketplace. We pay competitive salaries and expect every associate to be committed to earning such generous compensation. Indeed, bonuses will be awarded to those associates who make an extraordinary commitment in terms of time. It is simply that these bonuses in the future will not be tied automatically to the achievement of any given number of billable hours and will only be granted in light of a number of other factors described more fully below.

The Bonus System

Bonuses can be earned by all but first year associates. Bonuses will be rewarded at the sole discretion of the firm in amounts that will be significant, but without regard to any formula.

Professional Services

With respect to work for clients, associates may earn bonuses not only for the number of hours dedicated, but also for the quality of the work and imaginative ideas that advance the interests of our clients. To consider the latter, *7 we will be asking partners to make an evaluation of each associate's hours in terms of efficiency, diligence, and necessity, and to nominate for bonuses those associates whose initiatives saved clients money or whose ideas enhanced clients' likelihood of achieving their goals.

Firm Activities

It is just as important for the firm to hire, retain and promote a talented, diverse associate corps. To that end, bonuses will be rewarded for recruiting, training and mentoring hours and initiatives in the same way as work on client matters. Similarly, service on the associates committee, if undertaken in a dedicated and effective way, may result in an award of a bonus to the associates involved.

Pro Bono

In the past, the firm “counted” so many hours of pro bono. Beyond that level, the associate had to seek a waiver for the hours to count. We know this misled some associates into believing that pro bono really did not count, discouraging them from undertaking pro bono engagements. It is Caldwell & Moore's policy to encourage and support pro bono endeavors. The firm would like to achieve 100 percent participation by all of its lawyers at a level of 50 hours per year within the next three years. Meanwhile, the firm recognizes that pro bono engagements do not come in 50-hour assignment blocks. Henceforth, once an associate undertakes an approved pro bono matter for the firm, it will be treated like any other firm matter. Associates will be expected to dedicate all necessary time and effort to the matter. And associates can expect that in the evaluation of their commitment and hard work, the firm will count all of their pro bono hours -- so long as they meet the same criteria of necessity and competence as all other hours -- toward the awarding of any bonuses. Our pro bono clients are not second-class citizens, and we do not want any associate to feel that our compensation system is inconsistent with that principle.

Bar Association and Other Civic Endeavors

Our lawyers' obligations do not end with commitment to clients -- both paying and pro bono -- and to the firm. Caldwell & Moore is a leader of the profession. We expect our lawyers to get involved in the organized bar by serving in leadership positions, writing articles and books, presenting at continuing legal education seminars. Similarly, our lawyers should serve as leaders of the larger community. School boards, houses of worship, charitable and arts organizations, and similar endeavors all will benefit from the leadership of Caldwell & Moore lawyers. You can expect to be evaluated on your participation in these activities and for bonuses for outstanding accomplishments in this area to be awarded in the same way as for other achievements.

Work-Life Balance

While Caldwell & Moore expects extra effort from all of its lawyers, we recognize that the number of hours a lawyer is able to devote to all of the activities listed above varies widely because of the necessity of fulfilling even more important personal obligations, such as child-rearing or other family obligations. We also recognize that some of you have made life-style choices that are inconsistent with 2000 or more hours per year of professional time. Though those circumstances or choices may mean that you will not earn bonuses for your number of hours, Caldwell & Moore wants to emphasize that you will still be eligible for bonuses for the quality of your work, your imagination and skill, and for the other firm activities should your qualitative performance warrant it.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37395118)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 11:51 AM
Author: Adventurous startled psychic

“Don't do it.”

This was the wise advice of the senior associate I had adopted as my older brother and protector to guide me through the labyrinth of large firm life and politics. I had moseyed into his office, shut the door, and asked the question: “What do you think would happen if I asked about the possibility of going part-time?” A grave look came over his face, his eyes darted about the room, and he lowered his voice to a whisper: “It's professional suicide--don't even ask.”

After three years of working as a full-time litigator, I was tired. At that point, the expected minimum for a full-time associate litigator in New York was at 2000 billable hours. Allotting four weeks total time off for vacation and all holidays, plus a couple of “sick days,” that put the weekly target at about forty-two billable hours, or 8.5 per day. Adding in time for administrative work such as timekeeping, the training courses required for junior litigators, continuing legal education, helping with interviews, firm entertaining, a lunch break, and some time to be sociable with colleagues, it *82 always worked out to be at least a ten or eleven hour workday.1 Every day. And this did not count the effort to emerge from a catatonic state after particularly intense weekends or late-night work running up to a deadline.

In fact, even though I was for the most part working on appellate briefs for pretty slow-moving litigation, the work was increasingly bleeding into weekends and late evenings, so it was becoming difficult to juggle other commitments in my life. I wanted to find a way to protect my evenings and weekends so I could calmly clean the house, cook dinner, attend church, read non-law books, work in the yard, and keep up with friends and community activities outside the law firm. When I would get home at 8:30 or so in the evening, my friends with whom I shared a house had already finished dinner. It was difficult to wind down, and so I frequently had trouble sleeping and was increasingly edgy.

On the other hand, I really enjoyed the cases I was working on. I especially liked being, as one partner described it, a “sticky issues analyst,” and was cultivating a sense of “craft” in drafting arguments and briefs. I wanted to stay, but was hoping to essentially “buy” from the firm a clear understanding which would give more security for my evenings and weekends. I calculated that a target of thirty billable hours per week, or six hours per day, with an additional eight to ten hours per week allotted for other tasks, would bring me to a forty hour work week. And when I looked in the policy manual, there it was--a part-time policy--with exactly my calculations. It sounded great!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37395286)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 12:57 PM
Author: alcoholic marketing idea faggot firefighter

LOL at takinging four weeks of vacation and then complaining about hours. What the fuck are these people thinking?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37395748)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 3:37 PM
Author: jet-lagged pozpig sanctuary

jfc bootlicker that's standard in Western Europe

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37396903)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 3:52 PM
Author: massive trip stag film

Right, in that world-leading economy with low unemployment that is leading the world in the development of cutting-edge technology and services businesses...

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37396995)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 3:53 PM
Author: jet-lagged pozpig sanctuary

Their GDP per hour worked is equivalent to ours. The QOL improvement with less work at our GDP per capita level is worthwhile.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37397005)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 3:58 PM
Author: plum trump supporter business firm

i'm sure all the finnish and dutch people who are already on christmas vacation right now are super jealous of our cutting edge technology (which mostly consists of pharmaceuticals concoctions to counteract the side effects from the drugs we were already taking to counteract our obesity and depression, and computers to automate our jobs away so that employers won't have to pay for things like prescription drug coverage for us anymore)

btw, they still get the benefits of the tech, because we license the drug patents to them -- for lower cost than our own consumers can buy the same thing

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37397042)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 3:46 PM
Author: Brass piazza idiot

(employee with Stockholm Syndrome)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37396956)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 12:53 PM
Author: alcoholic marketing idea faggot firefighter

Lol, and clients don’t realize that they are paying us $1,000 an hour to deal with all of the delays and slowness their security requirements cause

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37395719)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 10:23 PM
Author: Fragrant peach principal's office

there are matters for banks where i was asked to just "chip in" for a few hours where it literally took months for me to get authorization to bill time to the matter.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37399073)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 1:55 PM
Author: Comical Painfully Honest Water Buffalo



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37396083)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 9:49 PM
Author: cordovan half-breed

Is cooley on the same level as Denton’s, dla, etC? Assume corporate work

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37398918)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 11:05 PM
Author: aphrodisiac puce market

Cooley is obviously far better than Dentons/DLA. They do a lot of high-end Silicon Valley/tech work.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37399413)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 11:06 PM
Author: cordovan half-breed

Did bros really stay in the office until 2am in war rooms and shit? Sounds horrible

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37399417)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 11:20 PM
Author: aphrodisiac puce market

We still do this lol.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37399549)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 12th, 2018 11:26 PM
Author: cordovan half-breed

Do u rage afterwards?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37399587)



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Date: December 13th, 2018 9:14 AM
Author: swollen patrolman therapy

i've done multiple back to back 5ams in IB

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37400945)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 11:47 PM
Author: aphrodisiac puce market

To continue the discussion on 2018 vs. 2008 finances, I present the following numbers (I made an excel spreadsheet filling in numbers from Cravath salary and bonus figures for each year):

[NEW YORK SPECIFIC, DON'T COME CRYING TO ME ABOUT SF OR HONG KONG RENT]

A 1st year associate (full year) who started in 2008 and spent 5 years in biglaw will have made a total of $1,051,500.

Compared to a 1st year associate who started in 2014 and remains in biglaw through the end of 2018, will have made a total of $1,290,000.

That's a $238,500 difference achieved in just 5 years. The difference balloons at an expontial rate from years 6 through 10 to well over half a million dollars, but I assumed the average biglawyer isn't sticking around years 6 through 10 so I won't bring those numbers into this particular analysis. This is a very dramatic difference and cannot be mitigated by any marginal changes in cost of living or inflation over the same period.

I used the Cravath scale for salaries and bonuses. I did not factor in special/summer/spring bonuses or hours requirements. I also did not factor in job security, all of which would have skewed the metrics in favor of the attorney starting in 2014.

I question the validity of using CPI to adjust salaries, b/c CPI assumes that an individual will spend a set percentage of income on fixed expenses. This becomes increasingly inaccurate at higher levels of expenditure. A 1st year in 2018 is not spending $2,000 more a month on rent than a 2008 1st year. If you compare rental prices of a standard walk-up or mid-tier highrise, you will also see that rent prices did not increase dramatically from 2008 to 2018 (my particular highrise building only went up by $500 for a 1br). Biglaw associates also spend a considerable amount of time in the office and eating free food and aren't grocery shopping/eating out as much and have many things subsidized such as gyms, phones and car services. It is incredibly dishonest to use a CPI adjustment to claim that a 1st year in 2018 is somehow spending $30,000/year more on food/rent than a 2008 1st year. That just isn't happening. You know it, I know it.

But if you insist on using a CPI adjustment, at least be intellectually honest and also adjust 2005-2008 law school tuition/expenses into today's dollars. It is inaccurate to only adjust topline income and fail to make the same adjustment for expenses of the same time period.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37399718)



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Date: December 12th, 2018 11:51 PM
Author: jet-lagged pozpig sanctuary

https://confoundedinterestnet.files.wordpress.com/2018/07/medianprices_3-month-rolling_sfd-condo-sep_since-2005-1.jpg?w=1100

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37399740)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 12th, 2018 11:53 PM
Author: aphrodisiac puce market

I am talking solely about NYC. I don't know enough about other markets to opine about that, but if you wish you can start a separate discussion on SF biglaw.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4152935&forum_id=2#37399748)