if the hotshot is going to get the dui pled down to a misdemeanor or reckless driving, why cant a PD do the same thing? it's not rocket science to do a dui case.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158711&forum_id=2#37431142)

and i think most PDs give a shit. the problem is that they're overworked. the question is whether they're so overworked that they can't do the basic discovery shit to competently plead the case down.

i'd guess that most PDs are better than shitty non-hotshot solos who take crim def cases but do a bunch of other shit

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158711&forum_id=2#37431149)

seems obvious to make SOME kind of 4th am challenge on a completely uncorroborated tip and no visible traffic violation/unusual behavior under Illinois v. Gates etc, but maybe that's just because i enjoyed 4th am shit in ls and wrote my journal note on it. congrats on winning a mot to sup.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158711&forum_id=2#37431304)

so the major diff between the PD and the crimdef hotshot is the ability to investigate the case and come up with a legit defense?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158711&forum_id=2#37431194)

the only "legit" defense you'll get from the PD if it's taken to trial is "I didn't do it"

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158711&forum_id=2#37431203)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158711&forum_id=2#37434030)

- They have $$$ to fund their re-election, PD's dont.

- They could actually CHALLENGE the JudgeBro in the next election if they piss off the wrong crimdef

No Judge is affraid of a PD, or even an ADA for that matter

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158711&forum_id=2#37434037)

it would have been 11-1 if the one lady knew ∆'s lawyer was a PD and would have hung the jury?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158711&forum_id=2#37431196)

does how good a deal you get depend on the quality of the defense lawyer -- is a hotshot crimdef pro gonna inherently get a better plea if the ada is afraid to try a case against them?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158711&forum_id=2#37431354)

do PDs not know shit stuff or have expertise in their office?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158711&forum_id=2#37431207)

There was an amusing case where someone actually got the court to order production of the source code for the Intoxilyzer 8000 for an (((expert))) to review in camera.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158711&forum_id=2#37431259)

which is better -- a PD or some retard shitlawyer who dabbles in crimdef and does other solo shitlaw?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158711&forum_id=2#37431396)

Most of DUI litigation is arguing:

- The cop didn't do Field Sobriety Tests Correct

- The science on FST is "uncertain"

- The intoxicylzer machine is filled with magical pixie dust and thus can't accurate determine if you are drunk

- Bring in a parade of "experts" to shit on the Cop's roadside tests.

Rinse, wash, repeat and you'll get some good results.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158711&forum_id=2#37434062)

the DA/PD's office can turn anyone into a trial lawyer

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158711&forum_id=2#37431318)

FBI doesn't give a shit unless someone dies.

State police doesn't have enough manpower to actually investigate dumb cops.

Politicians don't want to take the heat of being "anti-cop"

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158711&forum_id=2#37434092)

I say that as a former ProsBro.

How many fuckin' retards have you encountered in the DA's office who TRY THEIR HARDEST to avoid trials?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158711&forum_id=2#37434085)

“vat”

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158711&forum_id=2#37431395)

2) this faggot is really your best defend-the-honor-of-FSU-law comeback?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158711&forum_id=2#37431475)

I honest to God had the same skepticism you did -- in large part due to my generally high regard for PDs, especially in desirable cities -- and had to be turned around through repeated and close observation. (You likely know, as I always have, that PDs get empirically far worse results for their clients than private att'ys; this could easily be explained away by self-selection, especially when you consider that the vast majority of crim clients (1) could qualify for the PD if they wanted to; but (2) could scrounge up the money for a private att'y if they needed to; and (3) will opt for #2 over #1 when they feel they've got a good case.)

There really is a huge difference, *if* you can afford it. I always talk to the client beforehand and try to understand their financial situation, as well as their case, and work out the pros and cons of going with me vs. the PD vs. a more typical "crim hotshot" I could refer them to. (As a result, the majority of my crim cases are either CJA -- which I love doing, despite it paying 20% of my normal hourly rate -- or covered by the client's employer.)

The fact investigation you can do as a private att'y is orders of magnitude -- and I mean that literally, as in "always at least 10x, sometimes 1000x" -- better than what the PD can do with their 1/44th share of an (alcoholic, lazy-as-fuck, salaried) investigator. I can find a 608(a) witness for every victim -- I know this sounds unseemly, but any 12-year-old girl that gets caught up in a sex-trafficking scheme has a dozen more-innocent, more-credible classmates that will testify that the victim is a weird, dangerous, dishonest, (slutty,) pathological liar -- and I've never seen a PD put on one. I find *trial* experts, as opposed to the stock sentencing-mitigation psych expert that the judge has seen and ignored 5,678 times before; this takes *shitloads* of work and cold-calling, getting shitty guesswork referrals, and cold-calling again. I map out my crosses line-for-line against the impeachment material (this is difficult in crim cases, because all you have is reports, not depos, and the gov't will name 25 LEO witnesses and call 6, so you've got to keep track of what agents said what in their reports... *no one* does this); I also throw in lines of questioning that I've done the legal research on and found to be permissible, but that I know will likely get objected to and sustained, in order to create appealable issues -- I plan out my offers of proof out to be as favorable as humanly possible (to avoid the harmless-error problem). No pros ever tries a "clean" trial against me. Fuck, even doing a full guidelines analysis at the front end of the case, as basic as it is, is something that 90% of even private attorneys don't do.

---

I'm drunk in my office right now, so I'm sure I'm not doing my argument justice. But there's a huge difference between the PD and the *top* private att'ys in town. A better question would be the choice between the *federal* PD and the average state-court crim attorney who will take a federal case if you agree to pay the $15K figure he made up on the spot -- switching from the FD to a private is a bad decision 75% of the time, and it can be a disastrous decision.

Your focus on DUI as a "simple case" that PDs can do as well as specialists is also wrong, surprisingly. I've got an old "DUI tricks" poast that I found (http://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3855549&mc=55&forum_id=2#35128172) that gives you some idea of what I'm talking about. DUIs are low exposure cases and the lawyers that specialize in them get made fun of accordingly, but specialization bears real fruit in that area.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158711&forum_id=2#37431489)

---

What I consider "true" white-collar defense is internal investigations: doing Upjohn interviews and helping a corp pin crimes that were committed on the corp's watch on individual employees, rather than on the corporate entity or its executives. (Kind of the ultimate GC job, when you describe it in such heartless terms.) This often happens before the gov't has any whiff that a crime occurred. This seems like it'd be fun as shit, but I've never done it in any kind of leadership capacity (I did a little when i was a biglaw assoc). My work is in "active" litigation -- where the gov't has already sent a target letter to a corp/executive, or is running the C-suite and staff through the grand jury -- which sounds more fun, but the work tends to be a really slow, meaningless dance with the USAO with very little real litigation, other than the 124 continuance motions you'll file in the concurrent civil-forfeiture action (the abandonment of which will ultimately be the consideration given in exchange for USAO begging off their criminal investigation.... lol fed crim is such graft).

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158711&forum_id=2#37431598)

how much do you make off a typical CJA case? what's the hourly rate and typical number of hours you work, and can you actually bill all the time you spent or does the govt nickel and dime or cap your time? is it hard to get on a CJA Panel?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158711&forum_id=2#37431607)

I obfuscated the CJA rate below because I thought it varied from District to District, but I just googled and it apparently doesn't: it's $140 per hour. The cases are "capped" at around $10K, but it's easy as fuck to go above that by getting your case designated as "complex" or "extended" -- the big downside is that doing so means that you won't get paid for over a year (a big deal for some of these solo-type guys who need cash flow) because the request has to go up to the Circuit for approval (a stupid as fuck statutory requirement).

The Court doesn't really nickel-and-dime you, although you do have to learn a new coding system (it's very simple -- like 9 codes total, and 95% of your time falls into 3 of them -- you just have to remember to always break out, e.g., your travel time from your substantive work, which I don't usually do in 'real life'.... I use the patented DBG billing system in my civil practice). And there's a movement, based on the "Cardone Report," to remove the Court from billing altogether, which is already having huge gains in my District (now, instead of some Clerk's Office nobody with no discretion calling up my office manager, it's a retired CJA bro who's on my team... he compares the Court's involvement in fee/expert/cost reimbursement as "the referee of a game getting to set one team's lineup but not the other's").

You can get on the Misdemeanor/"B"/Auxiliary CJA panel fairly easily; a biglaw nebish could do it if he had any demonstrated interest in crim (I'm talking shit as weak as a pattern of CLEs). In some Circuits, it's also surprisingly easy to get on the appeals panel. The application is simple, so you should give it a shot.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158711&forum_id=2#37431651)

one Q: how the fuck are you able to bill a crim defendant client for this much work on a crim defense case that you're investigating the shit out of as if it's a biglaw bet-the-company 9-fig litigation? all that grunt work has to add up to tons of hours. unless you're doing serious white collar defense, how is the average dirtbag scum criminal affording this?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158711&forum_id=2#37431557)

Most of my clients (by head count) are CJA. Of my paying clients, about half are drug-trafficking and the other half "white collar," which for me is often weird shit that's not really white collar, like importation of ivory or something.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158711&forum_id=2#37431609)

CJA is different, so I'm just talking about cases where the client pays directly.

Many lawyers have a two tiered system of fees - one flat rate for pre-trial hearings, investigation, etc, and another rate if the client elects to go to trial. Usually they require the pre-trial fee up front, then won't take the case to trial unless they pay the trial fee.

I know some have a flat rate regardless of whether the case goes to trial, but that seems very rare these days.

Part of the difficulty in Crim defense is not knowing exactly how long a case will take when you get it. And the cost of a full blown felony jury trial is usually well over 30K. So if you don't know what you're doing when charging a case, it's easy to lose your shirt slcharging way too little for cases that you'll spend hundreds of hours on.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158711&forum_id=2#37434770)

I also do a great deal of CJA work, which is hourly rates at $1xx/hour (I'm using exes because I'm not sure if the rate varies from District to District and I don't want to out myself).

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158711&forum_id=2#37431624)

But to answer the OP, I think a lot of PDs wouldn't know how to run the business side of private practice and manage their clients. Clients that shell out the cash for a hotshot crim defense attorney need lots of attention and customer service. After all, their life is in your hands. PDs, otoh, are used to getting the dregs of society and don't really have to worry as much about the attorney client relationship since they ain't paying shit anyway.

This is really just from doing a summer internship at the PDs office.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158711&forum_id=2#37431619)

For example, a few years ago I had a criminal case connected to a civil case and so I was roped in to defend the criminal case. Anyway at trial, the prosecutor put on his case and at the conclusion of his evidence I made a motion to dismiss and argued pretty well and convincingly. The judge nonetheless overruled my motion to dismiss because the inferences in that situation fall on the side of the prosecutor.

I realized later that the judge was signaling to me in his comments that he could dismiss on my motion but that there was something else I needed to do first.

So then it was my case-in-chief, so … I called the defendant as a witness. Some of you are already groaning because you know what I did wrong. I called my defendant, who was terrible, when I should have opened my case in chief, not called any witnesses and immediately rested. Then I should have Renewed my Motion to Dismiss! The renewed motion to dismiss would not have had the same inferences in favor of the prosecution associated with it, and the judge would have sustained the renewed motion to dismiss. Unfortunately for me, I did not do that, and as a consequence, my client testified and her testimony brought her credibility into question, and, well, let's just say I lost that one.

My point: experience in criminal defense counts. That and sometimes when you wing it, you mess stuff up.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4158711&forum_id=2#37435079)